If you're not a PT/"vet", please don't delude yourself into thinking you directly had any influence over the game. The biggest impact a non-factor could have is if a PT/vet was looking over the S&I forum and took a liking to one of the ideas presented. They then take that idea to the secret private forum(the only one Flayra reads regularly) and present it to the elite of the community and they discuss the idea and if it's found suitable, the idea is then implemented. Of course the only ideas implemented are those found favorable to competitive play so things like a togglable armory that you can shut off to discourage humping aren't considered because competitive players don't have that problem.
Well thats just how I percieve things to be. I'd like to be wrong and if I am, correct me if you're sure. Until then, I'm going to believe that average players(myself included) are non-factors and the only opinions that matter come from the PTs/vets. The rest of you are welcome to believe otherwise but again you're likely deluding yourself by doing so.
Rage, I think they have described it as such. Basically, I think youre right. But theres a certain satisfaction in knowing either: a. you made a (really) small contribution in helping NS become the awesome mod it is today as opposed to just whining about balance in general discussion <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
or
b. you think like Flayra, WHICH IS EVEN BETTEH!!!11!one <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
In the end, dont go insulting the S&I forum, General Discussion is no better with the balance whining (I visit both, general discussion much more often). As well, if you really want to know who to thank, just look at the readme in the ns folder (or RTFM, nubs <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->).
<!--QuoteBegin--Rage against the Pepsi machine+Oct 21 2003, 10:24 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rage against the Pepsi machine @ Oct 21 2003, 10:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If you're not a PT/"vet", please don't delude yourself into thinking you directly had any influence over the game. The biggest impact a non-factor could have is if a PT/vet was looking over the S&I forum and took a liking to one of the ideas presented. They then take that idea to the secret private forum(the only one Flayra reads regularly) and present it to the elite of the community and they discuss the idea and if it's found suitable, the idea is then implemented. Of course the only ideas implemented are those found favorable to competitive play so things like a togglable armory that you can shut off to discourage humping aren't considered because competitive players don't have that problem.
Well thats just how I percieve things to be. I'd like to be wrong and if I am, correct me if you're sure. Until then, I'm going to believe that average players(myself included) are non-factors and the only opinions that matter come from the PTs/vets. The rest of you are welcome to believe otherwise but again you're likely deluding yourself by doing so.
<!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> ... very close to reality.
here's a few things that aren't actually true (to my knowlage)
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->PT/vet was looking over the S&I forum... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> - admins and (i'de like to think) moderators have a say in this too...
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->They then take that idea to the secret private forum(the only one Flayra reads regularly)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> - the ideas are acually sent to a secret e-mail, which he reads regularly...
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->present it to the elite of the community and they discuss the idea <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> - once flay gets it in his mind that it's suitable... then he talks to the team about how to implement it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Of course the only ideas implemented are those found favorable to competitive play<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> - 100% wrong, ns is teamwork first, then public, competative, then fun... he's not going to add a "BFG" because it only applys to the "fun"... it needs to fit in with ns, AND apply to 90% of those things...
the rule of thumb for suggesting something seriously:
draft edit spellcheck draft edit combine drafts (and existing game elements) review changelog compensate for current changes in the game edit spellcheck spellcheck (manually, don't just hit that little button) read aloud (AKA, spellcheck to the next level) edit post.
once you've done all your steps, people can actually say "...o.0, i love it, lets send this to flayra"
a well organized argument and suggestion for a bfg/sniper rifle will FAIL in one of those steps (aka - "combine drafts and existing game elements")
trsut me, if you didn't at least go through 1/2 of those steps, your suggestion/arguement is lacking SOMETHING.
<!--QuoteBegin--X_Stickman+Oct 21 2003, 06:25 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Oct 21 2003, 06:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> My point was not that flayra does/did nothing, it's simply that most people quote "Flayra" for things that must have taken the entire team to do. Flayra, being the head-guy type person, must have come up with the main idea for NS (aliens, evolutions FPSRTS etc), but he did NOT come up with the all of the ideas. Am i being dis-respectuful? No, i'm stating a fact. The whole aliens-being-able-to-evolve-to-onos-at-any-hive was a suggestion made by a forumite in the suggestions and ideas forum, yet i have heard people "quote" flayra as having come up with it (in the forums, like, passing mention in other topics and IRC channels etc).
My post was made simply to tell people that, although Flayra is obviously a very talented guy, he did <b>not</b> make all of NS himself. And i would class PTs + Vets as "Devs", because i class anyone who helps "Develop" the game as a "dev". <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh, how wrong you are.
Well, there are a couple issues with your statement.
1. Flayra was responsible for programming the core of NS. Joev is the official "helper" with the linux ports, however I'm not sure if he or Flayra actually programs them a well
2. Flayra is literally the only devteam member (besides monse and more recently joev and sometimes a few others) that visit the NS IRC chat or post in the foums. Because the other members of the team havn't chosen to represent themselves to the community directly, most people don't know they exist or what they do.
3. Flayra, for all intents and purposes, was the first team member, the person who came up with the inital concept, and is, for all intents and purposes, the "team leader". Notice how NS has no team leader - we have flayra, because creating NS was his idea, and his dream to create his own standalone mod with the HL engine that took it to the limits of what it could do today. Most team leaders just order people around. Flayra programmed a lot of NS from the ground up.
This is more of an issue that there is only one core member of the team that chooses to represent himself directly AS NS - Flayra. No one else chooses to or has stepped foreward and done it. So, therefore, we should respect flayra for bringing NS to us, correct?
Rage against the Pepsi machine: you are off here, except for the secret forum
X_Stickman: flay and others have put in 60+ hours a week for the last 2 years with no pay, to make a free game. Flayra has done most of the work, the beta testing of ns is only a small refinement, this is true for most nearly every beta (and even alpha) test; considering them developers is way off
and incase you did not know flay makes 100% of the decisions relating to ns, he is not some guy that just randomly decided to help ns, he is ns.
Well I just want to thank everybody that is onvolved with NS, it is turning out to be a wonderful mod, and hopefully one day will be ported (or re-written) to HL2, because I see great potential in HL2 for mods.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ... Most team leaders just order people around. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not entrirely true. I'm the leader for my mod i help in everything: Mapping(I can map pretty good but i rather find it quite boring :/), Code(I know how to make the code work etc. I have no idea how to make code from scratch <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->), Model( Hell im the 2nd head modeler in my mod), I know whats good and what isnt.
Now ontopic: Flayra made ns meaning he owns it. Ofcourse he will get most of the credit, He deserves it.
I'm not so sure I'm entirely comfortable with PTs and Vets being lumped into the same category...
The Playtesters are a crew of hand picked players who have been chosen because Flayra believes that they are not only capable of making a useful contribution to NS, but also because they are level headed individuals capable of carrying that responsibility.
The Veterans are a selection of NS's more skilled clans brought in purely on the basis of their skill. They were not chosen on a player by player basis, and as such while there may be plenty of level headed veterans who might be worthy of a playtesting status, there are also a huge amount of Veterans who clearly show some character traits not befitting of a NS playtester...
Big props to the Vets for making 2.x what is now, but bigger props to the PTs IMO...
Also, I don't think it was Flayra who came up with the original concept.... Either that or it was someone else who drew the concept art.... I know there is another guy somewhere that we have never seen nor heard of around here, but is some how partly responsible for some of the concept work...
<!--QuoteBegin--Future+Oct 22 2003, 12:04 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Future @ Oct 22 2003, 12:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Little secret: S & I forums are pretty useless. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I used to read them regularly, but after awhile it gets really boring, not to mention this:
Before 2.0:
You see things which were actually considered, I remember reading some great threads in there, as well as Flay commenting on a few.
<!--QuoteBegin--Revenge+Oct 22 2003, 11:13 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Revenge @ Oct 22 2003, 11:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Also, I don't think it was Flayra who came up with the original concept.... Either that or it was someone else who drew the concept art.... I know there is another guy somewhere that we have never seen nor heard of around here, but is some how partly responsible for some of the concept work... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Um...that's me, and you have seen and heard of me around here, though I don't post nearly as much as I used to. Concept art was done by yours truly, but the concept for the game was all Flayra's. For example, Flay would say to me, "I want this thing called a Hive that aliens spawn from" and I would work out some concepts for how I envisioned it looking, using certain phrases that we had agreed upon through discussion to help guide the direction of the visual look.
So, using the examples of the aliens to show the process: First Flayra came up with the classes and types of aliens and the abilities each one had, then I would come up with a bunch of concept sketches to match the behavior of each alien. Then as a team we'd agree on which design worked the best, one of the artists on the team would create the model (usually Beaner, or in the case of the alien structures, me), then I would create the texture. Then they would be given to one of the animators (Def One, Mojo, or Hugo) to animate. Meanhwhile, Flayra coded them to work in game with all of their different abilities, often using stand in models before the finals were created (early PT'ers can remember some of the obsure creatures from HL that found there way in to the early stages of NS development).
Flayra really is the team leader on this project in every way. He designed and programmed all of NS until Max came aboard to help out with coding, and oversaw every aspect of development, including art, mapping, sound, PR, and playtesting. Not to mention starting up this website and paying to keep it running.
Not to make this into a kiss **** post but Flayra is a great person to work for. He is so enthusiastic about what he and everyone else is doing, he is incredibly committed, has great organizational skills, and is a great designer, willing to take risks to push the boundaries in innovation. He always gives good feedback to his develpoment team and also puts a lot of trust in us and our various expertise, rather then always having to have things his way. So, to sum this up, he really does deserve most of the credit for this game.
<!--QuoteBegin--Frikk+Oct 22 2003, 12:59 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Frikk @ Oct 22 2003, 12:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The concept art was done by Squeal Like A Pig, who is a friggin GOD. He never gets the credit from the public he deserves. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Frikk must have posted this when I was writing my huge rambling post.
Thanks for the kind words, though maybe a bit exaggerated to call me a GOD...I'm really more of a Demi God <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--DeLtA FoRcE+Oct 22 2003, 09:55 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DeLtA FoRcE @ Oct 22 2003, 09:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Don't you just hate when noobs take Flayra's name and join your server? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Instead of NSPlayer as the default name for 2.00, it was Flayra by accident. I believe it might have been fixed with 2.01.
It was actually a client release error, hence the Flayras running around :\
Anyway, since Flayra did make up the concepts, and coded the core from scratch (ok....not really scratch but ok half-scratch) so therefore most of the credit goes to him for making the reality of a game called Natural-Selection of the game come true. Without him we wouldn't have the rest of the dev team come together and help create this mod.
But of course it won't hurt to credit the other Devs, right?? (Cory comes into mind....whenever I look at his art I just want to keep on drawing hehe)
X_StickmanNot good enough for a custom title.Join Date: 2003-04-15Member: 15533Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin--RaVe+Oct 22 2003, 03:50 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RaVe @ Oct 22 2003, 03:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It was actually a client release error, hence the Flayras running around :\
Anyway, since Flayra did make up the concepts, and coded the core from scratch (ok....not really scratch but ok half-scratch) so therefore most of the credit goes to him for making the reality of a game called Natural-Selection of the game come true. Without him we wouldn't have the rest of the dev team come together and help create this mod.
But of course it won't hurt to credit the other Devs, right?? (Cory comes into mind....whenever I look at his art I just want to keep on drawing hehe) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> ...But without any of the other team members, we'd have have barney running around biting people inside black mesa.
One of the things people like most about NS is the atmosphere. You get scared, NS is one of the only games that you can get scared in. Graphics play a large part in this (and afaik, flayra only approved what other people made). Sound is also a very important factor (with the background track, Powersilo feels ALIVE). I don't think Flayra had much to do with the sound either, other than approving the final product.
I "approve" of 'The Matrix'. I didn't make it, i had no part in it, but i approve of it. If it wasn't for me, The Matrix would be a little less popular (by at least 2 fans). What does that mean? Nothing actually. I started to make a point, but then got totally confused with myself.
The basic fact is, a fully coded game is *nothing* without everything else to finish it. What's the use in having a coded game with no models, textures and sounds to put into it? That's the point i'm trying to get accross.
I'm well aware that Flayra put a lot more time of his than needed to make NS a reality, and i said in my post that i am not being dis-respectful to Flayra in any way at all. But *everyone* in the NS community knows how much work Flayra has done, and i personally think it's time we paid a little attention to how much work everyone else does on NS. Hell, even the Forum mods do a great job keeping the NS Forums a nice place to be.
Someone asked earlier on, what is the point in bringing this up? Am i just kissin' ****? No. I'm not. But i've recently started doing some work on some projects (in real life and outside), and i've noticed that hardly anyone notices what goes on behind the scenes. For instance, at my school, when the printer jams in the IT rooms, it will suddenly just start working again. Magic? No, since i've been working with the IT techs, i've noticed how much stuff they have to do. He has to fix the printer himself from the server. The same way all the modelers, sound engineers, texture artists, concept artists etc do for NS.
This post seems to have caused a lot more trouble than i meant it to, and to be honest, it would probably be better off locked.
Lots of other people did maps and artwork, and handle forum/PT issues. While much of the artwork has been static for a while, the moderation is an ongoing headache.
MonsE is the PR man.
JoeV is in charge of the linux distribs mostly (I think). There was a 2.01jv beta, and you can guess who was behind that.
Max joined in late 1.04, and helped with programming.
Flayra did pretty much everything else, which is alot. Even just NS's design work is considerable. I think it just used to be his hobby, but it amounts to a full time job now.
<!--QuoteBegin--Squeal Like A Pig+Oct 22 2003, 01:49 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Squeal Like A Pig @ Oct 22 2003, 01:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Um...that's me, and you have seen and heard of me around here, though I don't post nearly as much as I used to. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Ouch sorry man, no offense. I honestly didn't know who it was, but hey you learn something new everyday I guess <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Is it true that Flayra was on the development team of Empire Earth? I remember hearing that rumour a good while ago...
X_StickmanNot good enough for a custom title.Join Date: 2003-04-15Member: 15533Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin--Revenge+Oct 22 2003, 09:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Revenge @ Oct 22 2003, 09:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Squeal Like A Pig+Oct 22 2003, 01:49 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Squeal Like A Pig @ Oct 22 2003, 01:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Um...that's me, and you have seen and heard of me around here, though I don't post nearly as much as I used to. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ouch sorry man, no offense. I honestly didn't know who it was, but hey you learn something new everyday I guess <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Is it true that Flayra was on the development team of Empire Earth? I remember hearing that rumour a good while ago... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Quotage from Flayra's own website (overmind.org):
...Involvement - Game-level programming tasks in C++ - Programmed single and multiplayer save/load system - Programmed civilization builder, campaign editor - Programmed calamity system and area effects system <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah, where would we be without PT and 'Vets' <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Revenge+Oct 22 2003, 09:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Revenge @ Oct 22 2003, 09:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Is it true that Flayra was on the development team of Empire Earth? I remember hearing that rumour a good while ago... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yup. He use to work at Stainless Steel Studios, the same company I still work for. Speaking of which *WARNING: SHAMELESS PLUG* our new game Empires: Dawn of the Modern World just came out in stores today. Go buy it <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> *END OF SHAMELESS PLUG*
Comments
Well thats just how I percieve things to be. I'd like to be wrong and if I am, correct me if you're sure. Until then, I'm going to believe that average players(myself included) are non-factors and the only opinions that matter come from the PTs/vets. The rest of you are welcome to believe otherwise but again you're likely deluding yourself by doing so.
<!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->
a. you made a (really) small contribution in helping NS become the awesome mod it is today as opposed to just whining about balance in general discussion <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
or
b. you think like Flayra, WHICH IS EVEN BETTEH!!!11!one <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
In the end, dont go insulting the S&I forum, General Discussion is no better with the balance whining (I visit both, general discussion much more often). As well, if you really want to know who to thank, just look at the readme in the ns folder (or RTFM, nubs <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->).
Well thats just how I percieve things to be. I'd like to be wrong and if I am, correct me if you're sure. Until then, I'm going to believe that average players(myself included) are non-factors and the only opinions that matter come from the PTs/vets. The rest of you are welcome to believe otherwise but again you're likely deluding yourself by doing so.
<!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
... very close to reality.
here's a few things that aren't actually true (to my knowlage)
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->PT/vet was looking over the S&I forum... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
- admins and (i'de like to think) moderators have a say in this too...
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->They then take that idea to the secret private forum(the only one Flayra reads regularly)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
- the ideas are acually sent to a secret e-mail, which he reads regularly...
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->present it to the elite of the community and they discuss the idea <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
- once flay gets it in his mind that it's suitable... then he talks to the team about how to implement it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Of course the only ideas implemented are those found favorable to competitive play<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
- 100% wrong, ns is teamwork first, then public, competative, then fun... he's not going to add a "BFG" because it only applys to the "fun"... it needs to fit in with ns, AND apply to 90% of those things...
the rule of thumb for suggesting something seriously:
draft
edit
spellcheck
draft
edit
combine drafts (and existing game elements)
review changelog
compensate for current changes in the game
edit
spellcheck
spellcheck (manually, don't just hit that little button)
read aloud (AKA, spellcheck to the next level)
edit
post.
once you've done all your steps, people can actually say "...o.0, i love it, lets send this to flayra"
a well organized argument and suggestion for a bfg/sniper rifle will FAIL in one of those steps (aka - "combine drafts and existing game elements")
trsut me, if you didn't at least go through 1/2 of those steps, your suggestion/arguement is lacking SOMETHING.
My post was made simply to tell people that, although Flayra is obviously a very talented guy, he did <b>not</b> make all of NS himself. And i would class PTs + Vets as "Devs", because i class anyone who helps "Develop" the game as a "dev". <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh, how wrong you are.
<a href='http://www.overmind.org/strathl/Humans%20vs.%20Aliens.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.overmind.org/strathl/Humans%20v...s.%20Aliens.htm</a>
1. Flayra was responsible for programming the core of NS. Joev is the official "helper" with the linux ports, however I'm not sure if he or Flayra actually programs them a well
2. Flayra is literally the only devteam member (besides monse and more recently joev and sometimes a few others) that visit the NS IRC chat or post in the foums. Because the other members of the team havn't chosen to represent themselves to the community directly, most people don't know they exist or what they do.
3. Flayra, for all intents and purposes, was the first team member, the person who came up with the inital concept, and is, for all intents and purposes, the "team leader". Notice how NS has no team leader - we have flayra, because creating NS was his idea, and his dream to create his own standalone mod with the HL engine that took it to the limits of what it could do today. Most team leaders just order people around. Flayra programmed a lot of NS from the ground up.
This is more of an issue that there is only one core member of the team that chooses to represent himself directly AS NS - Flayra. No one else chooses to or has stepped foreward and done it. So, therefore, we should respect flayra for bringing NS to us, correct?
X_Stickman:
flay and others have put in 60+ hours a week for the last 2 years with no pay, to make a free game. Flayra has done most of the work, the beta testing of ns is only a small refinement, this is true for most nearly every beta (and even alpha) test; considering them developers is way off
and incase you did not know flay makes 100% of the decisions relating to ns, he is not some guy that just randomly decided to help ns, he is ns.
Not entrirely true. I'm the leader for my mod i help in everything: Mapping(I can map pretty good but i rather find it quite boring :/), Code(I know how to make the code work etc. I have no idea how to make code from scratch <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->), Model( Hell im the 2nd head modeler in my mod), I know whats good and what isnt.
Now ontopic:
Flayra made ns meaning he owns it. Ofcourse he will get most of the credit, He deserves it.
The Playtesters are a crew of hand picked players who have been chosen because Flayra believes that they are not only capable of making a useful contribution to NS, but also because they are level headed individuals capable of carrying that responsibility.
The Veterans are a selection of NS's more skilled clans brought in purely on the basis of their skill. They were not chosen on a player by player basis, and as such while there may be plenty of level headed veterans who might be worthy of a playtesting status, there are also a huge amount of Veterans who clearly show some character traits not befitting of a NS playtester...
Big props to the Vets for making 2.x what is now, but bigger props to the PTs IMO...
Also, I don't think it was Flayra who came up with the original concept.... Either that or it was someone else who drew the concept art.... I know there is another guy somewhere that we have never seen nor heard of around here, but is some how partly responsible for some of the concept work...
The concept art was done by Squeal Like A Pig, who is a friggin GOD. He never gets the credit from the public he deserves.
I used to read them regularly, but after awhile it gets really boring, not to mention this:
Before 2.0:
You see things which were actually considered, I remember reading some great threads in there, as well as Flay commenting on a few.
After 2.0:
...
Um...that's me, and you have seen and heard of me around here, though I don't post nearly as much as I used to. Concept art was done by yours truly, but the concept for the game was all Flayra's. For example, Flay would say to me, "I want this thing called a Hive that aliens spawn from" and I would work out some concepts for how I envisioned it looking, using certain phrases that we had agreed upon through discussion to help guide the direction of the visual look.
So, using the examples of the aliens to show the process: First Flayra came up with the classes and types of aliens and the abilities each one had, then I would come up with a bunch of concept sketches to match the behavior of each alien. Then as a team we'd agree on which design worked the best, one of the artists on the team would create the model (usually Beaner, or in the case of the alien structures, me), then I would create the texture. Then they would be given to one of the animators (Def One, Mojo, or Hugo) to animate. Meanhwhile, Flayra coded them to work in game with all of their different abilities, often using stand in models before the finals were created (early PT'ers can remember some of the obsure creatures from HL that found there way in to the early stages of NS development).
Flayra really is the team leader on this project in every way. He designed and programmed all of NS until Max came aboard to help out with coding, and oversaw every aspect of development, including art, mapping, sound, PR, and playtesting. Not to mention starting up this website and paying to keep it running.
Not to make this into a kiss **** post but Flayra is a great person to work for. He is so enthusiastic about what he and everyone else is doing, he is incredibly committed, has great organizational skills, and is a great designer, willing to take risks to push the boundaries in innovation. He always gives good feedback to his develpoment team and also puts a lot of trust in us and our various expertise, rather then always having to have things his way. So, to sum this up, he really does deserve most of the credit for this game.
Frikk must have posted this when I was writing my huge rambling post.
Thanks for the kind words, though maybe a bit exaggerated to call me a GOD...I'm really more of a Demi God <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Instead of NSPlayer as the default name for 2.00, it was Flayra by accident. I believe it might have been fixed with 2.01.
Anyway, since Flayra did make up the concepts, and coded the core from scratch (ok....not really scratch but ok half-scratch) so therefore most of the credit goes to him for making the reality of a game called Natural-Selection of the game come true. Without him we wouldn't have the rest of the dev team come together and help create this mod.
But of course it won't hurt to credit the other Devs, right?? (Cory comes into mind....whenever I look at his art I just want to keep on drawing hehe)
Anyway, since Flayra did make up the concepts, and coded the core from scratch (ok....not really scratch but ok half-scratch) so therefore most of the credit goes to him for making the reality of a game called Natural-Selection of the game come true. Without him we wouldn't have the rest of the dev team come together and help create this mod.
But of course it won't hurt to credit the other Devs, right?? (Cory comes into mind....whenever I look at his art I just want to keep on drawing hehe) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
...But without any of the other team members, we'd have have barney running around biting people inside black mesa.
One of the things people like most about NS is the atmosphere. You get scared, NS is one of the only games that you can get scared in. Graphics play a large part in this (and afaik, flayra only approved what other people made). Sound is also a very important factor (with the background track, Powersilo feels ALIVE). I don't think Flayra had much to do with the sound either, other than approving the final product.
I "approve" of 'The Matrix'. I didn't make it, i had no part in it, but i approve of it. If it wasn't for me, The Matrix would be a little less popular (by at least 2 fans). What does that mean? Nothing actually. I started to make a point, but then got totally confused with myself.
The basic fact is, a fully coded game is *nothing* without everything else to finish it. What's the use in having a coded game with no models, textures and sounds to put into it? That's the point i'm trying to get accross.
I'm well aware that Flayra put a lot more time of his than needed to make NS a reality, and i said in my post that i am not being dis-respectful to Flayra in any way at all. But *everyone* in the NS community knows how much work Flayra has done, and i personally think it's time we paid a little attention to how much work everyone else does on NS. Hell, even the Forum mods do a great job keeping the NS Forums a nice place to be.
Someone asked earlier on, what is the point in bringing this up? Am i just kissin' ****? No. I'm not. But i've recently started doing some work on some projects (in real life and outside), and i've noticed that hardly anyone notices what goes on behind the scenes. For instance, at my school, when the printer jams in the IT rooms, it will suddenly just start working again. Magic? No, since i've been working with the IT techs, i've noticed how much stuff they have to do. He has to fix the printer himself from the server. The same way all the modelers, sound engineers, texture artists, concept artists etc do for NS.
This post seems to have caused a lot more trouble than i meant it to, and to be honest, it would probably be better off locked.
MonsE is the PR man.
JoeV is in charge of the linux distribs mostly (I think). There was a 2.01jv beta, and you can guess who was behind that.
Max joined in late 1.04, and helped with programming.
Flayra did pretty much everything else, which is alot. Even just NS's design work is considerable. I think it just used to be his hobby, but it amounts to a full time job now.
Ouch sorry man, no offense. I honestly didn't know who it was, but hey you learn something new everyday I guess <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Is it true that Flayra was on the development team of Empire Earth? I remember hearing that rumour a good while ago...
Ouch sorry man, no offense. I honestly didn't know who it was, but hey you learn something new everyday I guess <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Is it true that Flayra was on the development team of Empire Earth? I remember hearing that rumour a good while ago... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Quotage from Flayra's own website (overmind.org):
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Empire Earth (2001)...
...Involvement
- Game-level programming tasks in C++
- Programmed single and multiplayer save/load system
- Programmed civilization builder, campaign editor
- Programmed calamity system and area effects system
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yup. He use to work at Stainless Steel Studios, the same company I still work for. Speaking of which *WARNING: SHAMELESS PLUG* our new game Empires: Dawn of the Modern World just came out in stores today. Go buy it <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> *END OF SHAMELESS PLUG*