humbabaThat Exciting Tales From the Frontline GuyJoin Date: 2002-01-25Member: 86Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
Yes, the TSA logo has a gun handle. Its also more splayed out. Wings and Weapons are common together. Regarding the whole "looks like WH40k armor" stuff. It really doesnt. If you glance at it, it looks big, its got plates, its futuristic. These are the similarities. Well, how else to you show heavy armor? You cant have hevay armor without it being Big. What is armor without plates?!? and no, we arent gonna make this stuff outta bamboo. The reason I feel somewhat riled up is that, as someone who spends a lot of time drawing, I notice that the first thing a person does when looking at something creative someone has done is say "It looks like [insert broad, vaguely similar item here]". Let your mind be open, dont try to pigeon hole or reduce the originality of somethign unique created by an artist by likening it to something else. Everything art is inspired from something in the past. I like the style of NS models because they seem to draw inspiration from suits of armor from the ancient and medieval world. The armor of the TSA has a detailed, technological, adaptable look to it. Flexible, fast, ornate, imposing (in the case of the heavy). When I look at WH40K stuff (I played it 2 years or so ago, as I may have mentioned), marine stuff is clunky. Its simple and bold in design and coloring. It looks less varied and plated. There arem or broad curves to it. Really, TSA heavy armor bears more resemblance to medievel plate mail than it does to 40K armor.
<!--QuoteBegin--humbaba+Aug. 22 2002,01:22--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (humbaba @ Aug. 22 2002,01:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yes, the TSA logo has a gun handle. Its also more splayed out. Wings and Weapons are common together. Regarding the whole "looks like WH40k armor" stuff. It really doesnt. If you glance at it, it looks big, its got plates, its futuristic. These are the similarities. Well, how else to you show heavy armor? You cant have hevay armor without it being Big. What is armor without plates?!? and no, we arent gonna make this stuff outta bamboo. The reason I feel somewhat riled up is that, as someone who spends a lot of time drawing, I notice that the first thing a person does when looking at something creative someone has done is say "It looks like [insert broad, vaguely similar item here]". Let your mind be open, dont try to pigeon hole or reduce the originality of somethign unique created by an artist by likening it to something else. Everything art is inspired from something in the past. I like the style of NS models because they seem to draw inspiration from suits of armor from the ancient and medieval world. The armor of the TSA has a detailed, technological, adaptable look to it. Flexible, fast, ornate, imposing (in the case of the heavy). When I look at WH40K stuff (I played it 2 years or so ago, as I may have mentioned), marine stuff is clunky. Its simple and bold in design and coloring. It looks less varied and plated. There arem or broad curves to it. Really, TSA heavy armor bears more resemblance to medievel plate mail than it does to 40K armor.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Word.
If the armour had curved shoulder plates like the good ol' Space Marines, then you can start drawing similarities.
As it stands, NS has it's own unique style and mystique about it. I don't see anyone comparing any of the aliens to anything vaguely similar. A whole world has come into fruition and it's a fair slap in the face of all involved when someone tries to dissect every little naunce about it, your only grasping at straws.
Both the heavy armour and the level 3 look amazing but I have a few things to say:
When I first looked at the heavy armour I immediately thought "Dreadnaught" from Tribes 2. The similarities are striking. <b>This is not a bad thing, nor am I accusing any member of the NS DEV team of plagiarism.</b> I just have to make that abundantly clear so I don't start another 5 page "discussion".
The flying animation of the level 3 is nothing like I expected. I think the legs hang down too far, it looks fairly un-aerodynamic. I think the entire affair should be a little less rigid while flying, more swinging around. If only the Q2 engine could handle transparent parts of models. It would rock a great deal if the wings could be slightly translucent.
I know I'm being petty here but I'm just talking my mind.
Scythe <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->, WH40k was first thing i thought but now i think its quite a bit different
Wow, Humbaba, I'm gonna have to chip in on that beer for you too.
That's exactly what I was going for when designing the armor, futuristic and protective, but also drawing heavily from the look of medieval and rennaissance armor, with the segments and plating. I wanted the heavy marine to look powerful but also magnificent and expensive, hence the ornate trim. He is very much like a knight from history, the way the armor covering him has a certain dehumanizing effect, and also instills a sense of grandeur and awe into those around him. And, as he is the marine equivelant of the Level 5, I wanted him to also be intimidating and a little frightening.
As to wether or not it bears resemblance to Warhammer marines or Tribes 2 marines, I really can't say since I have played neither game. Like most artists, I am constantly surrounding myself with inspiration, whether from movies or other games, or random illustrations or photographs which impress me. Artists are all influenced by the work of other artists, and it has always been a perfectly acceptable working process. I try to impart as much of my own creativity and stylistic preferences into my work to hopefully give it a unique appearance of it's own.
I appreciate all the comments, and if people end up comparing my work to something from another game or movie that they like, well, it probably means that they like what I came up with as well, so I'll just take it as a compliment <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo-->
NS Heavy Armor: [IMG] <a href="http://readyroom.org/ns_models/hvmarine_03.jpg" target="_blank">http://readyroom.org/ns_models/hvmarine_03.jpg</a> [/IMG]
There are some similarities, but like humaba said, that can't be helped.
What really struck me though was, even though the designs bear resemblence, how radically different they look!
The NS armor looks grity dirty, like it's meant to wade through a whole room full of little critters looking to tear it apart. It looks like it would inspire fear into everything except a level 5, and even then, it's questionable. The whole NS model just says, Im gonna hunt you down and kick your ###, and there's nothing you can do about it!
However, the tribes armor looks...well.... elegent. But it doesn't look like it's been anywhere, and it really doesn't do anything fear-wise. It looks like it just sits there... with that "Bring it" look about it.
Question: It looks to me like the level 3 just begins flapping and takes off. Since flapping is eqivilant to the jump key, shouldn't the first flap be free since he is jumping rather than flapping? It would also allow the level three's to get around a little easier, as they could move quickly without expending energy (though not high, mind you).
Maybe he's wearing a shield-pack, so nothing scratched his armor...
And besides, he probably knows how to use a HMG... there is a chaingun. Oh yeah, and the armor does have pain skins. <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--MonsieurEvil+Aug. 22 2002,10:26--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (MonsieurEvil @ Aug. 22 2002,10:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Do you have an example of the Dark Angels insignia so that we can compare them side by side? I can tell you right now that they are not the same (the DA is a winged skull if I recall), and any similarities are purely coincidental. I am fairly sure Cory wouldn't know WH40K if it bit him on the bum.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> beyond that, the DA Symbol largely copies off the Skull of UR. So if they wanna sue someone, I'm sure the ensueing counter-suit would be hiliarous.
MartOrigin of SUYFJoin Date: 2002-02-26Member: 248Members
Now what i'm about to say is merely an observation, so don't get all up-tight when I say it.
I like the armour, it looks good. I like the level 3 animation, it looks great. The level 3 animation also reminds me of Gremlins 2... you know, the flying bat gremlin. JUST. AN. OBSERVATION.
<!--QuoteBegin--Mart+Aug. 24 2002,11:29--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Mart @ Aug. 24 2002,11:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Now what i'm about to say is merely an observation, so don't get all up-tight when I say it.
I like the armour, it looks good. I like the level 3 animation, it looks great. The level 3 animation also reminds me of Gremlins 2... you know, the flying bat gremlin. JUST. AN. OBSERVATION.
Great work.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No one is going to get up-tight about that. Comparisons are fine. It's when people use them in a critical, accusatory fashion that we as developers get a little "up-tight"
We are working hard to make a game that is both high quality and unique. When we get comments like "all the art in this game looks just like such and such a game" or "why are you using a symbol that is the same as another game, you should stop using it", those are not helpful, or constructive. The thing that gets me worked up more then anything else is being accused of ripping off someone else's work, which is one of the most disrespectful and amoral things you can do as an artist.
Saying "you know, that's cool, and just as an observation, it reminds me of...", that is perfectly acceptable.
Just trying to set the record straight, that we aren't all a bunch of tight ##### around here.
I think all these comparisons would be quite flattering really. I mean, everyone has said they look great and that they look like models made for commercial games where vast sums of money change hands...
I personally find the armour model reminds me of the boss in UT. I wouldnt say it was copied though and I think it looks absolutely brilliant.
lol i thought the same, it looks like the ut boss, but its just because the boss is an armored guy <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--> i think the model is pretty original and i love the skin......
Ahhh!!!, I don't know how much longer the Heavy Armor Marine and the Level 3 clip is going to hold me from the urge to play NS!! It's not long until I go crazy to with NS again :| :| <!--emo&:(--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('><!--endemo-->
Comments
Everything art is inspired from something in the past. I like the style of NS models because they seem to draw inspiration from suits of armor from the ancient and medieval world. The armor of the TSA has a detailed, technological, adaptable look to it. Flexible, fast, ornate, imposing (in the case of the heavy). When I look at WH40K stuff (I played it 2 years or so ago, as I may have mentioned), marine stuff is clunky. Its simple and bold in design and coloring. It looks less varied and plated. There arem or broad curves to it. Really, TSA heavy armor bears more resemblance to medievel plate mail than it does to 40K armor.
Everything art is inspired from something in the past. I like the style of NS models because they seem to draw inspiration from suits of armor from the ancient and medieval world. The armor of the TSA has a detailed, technological, adaptable look to it. Flexible, fast, ornate, imposing (in the case of the heavy). When I look at WH40K stuff (I played it 2 years or so ago, as I may have mentioned), marine stuff is clunky. Its simple and bold in design and coloring. It looks less varied and plated. There arem or broad curves to it. Really, TSA heavy armor bears more resemblance to medievel plate mail than it does to 40K armor.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Word.
If the armour had curved shoulder plates like the good ol' Space Marines, then you can start drawing similarities.
As it stands, NS has it's own unique style and mystique about it. I don't see anyone comparing any of the aliens to anything vaguely similar. A whole world has come into fruition and it's a fair slap in the face of all involved when someone tries to dissect every little naunce about it, your only grasping at straws.
gg NS Team.
When I first looked at the heavy armour I immediately thought "Dreadnaught" from Tribes 2. The similarities are striking. <b>This is not a bad thing, nor am I accusing any member of the NS DEV team of plagiarism.</b> I just have to make that abundantly clear so I don't start another 5 page "discussion".
The flying animation of the level 3 is nothing like I expected. I think the legs hang down too far, it looks fairly un-aerodynamic. I think the entire affair should be a little less rigid while flying, more swinging around. If only the Q2 engine could handle transparent parts of models. It would rock a great deal if the wings could be slightly translucent.
I know I'm being petty here but I'm just talking my mind.
--Scythe--
<a href="mailto:the_only_scythe@subdimension.com">the_only_scythe@subdimension.com</a>
That's exactly what I was going for when designing the armor, futuristic and protective, but also drawing heavily from the look of medieval and rennaissance armor, with the segments and plating. I wanted the heavy marine to look powerful but also magnificent and expensive, hence the ornate trim. He is very much like a knight from history, the way the armor covering him has a certain dehumanizing effect, and also instills a sense of grandeur and awe into those around him. And, as he is the marine equivelant of the Level 5, I wanted him to also be intimidating and a little frightening.
As to wether or not it bears resemblance to Warhammer marines or Tribes 2 marines, I really can't say since I have played neither game. Like most artists, I am constantly surrounding myself with inspiration, whether from movies or other games, or random illustrations or photographs which impress me. Artists are all influenced by the work of other artists, and it has always been a perfectly acceptable working process. I try to impart as much of my own creativity and stylistic preferences into my work to hopefully give it a unique appearance of it's own.
I appreciate all the comments, and if people end up comparing my work to something from another game or movie that they like, well, it probably means that they like what I came up with as well, so I'll just take it as a compliment <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo-->
<img src="http://tribes2.sierra.com/img/armor/armor_heavy_be_01.jpg" border="0">
NS Heavy Armor:
[IMG]
<a href="http://readyroom.org/ns_models/hvmarine_03.jpg" target="_blank">http://readyroom.org/ns_models/hvmarine_03.jpg</a>
[/IMG]
There are some similarities, but like humaba said, that can't be helped.
What really struck me though was, even though the designs bear resemblence, how radically different they look!
The NS armor looks grity dirty, like it's meant to wade through a whole room full of little critters looking to tear it apart. It looks like it would inspire fear into everything except a level 5, and even then, it's questionable. The whole NS model just says, Im gonna hunt you down and kick your ###, and there's nothing you can do about it!
However, the tribes armor looks...well.... elegent. But it doesn't look like it's been anywhere, and it really doesn't do anything fear-wise. It looks like it just sits there... with that "Bring it" look about it.
In short,
NS armor>Tribes 2 armor.
But if you give that freshmeat who's never seen combat a good old HMG, that NS heavy armor's gonna kick that fat jug-head's arse.
Freemantle, wanna go 1v1 with me sometime? T2?
And besides, he probably knows how to use a HMG... there is a chaingun.
Oh yeah, and the armor does have pain skins. <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo-->
beyond that, the DA Symbol largely copies off the Skull of UR. So if they wanna sue someone, I'm sure the ensueing counter-suit would be hiliarous.
I like the armour, it looks good. I like the level 3 animation, it looks great. The level 3 animation also reminds me of Gremlins 2... you know, the flying bat gremlin. JUST. AN. OBSERVATION.
Great work.
I like the armour, it looks good. I like the level 3 animation, it looks great. The level 3 animation also reminds me of Gremlins 2... you know, the flying bat gremlin. JUST. AN. OBSERVATION.
Great work.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No one is going to get up-tight about that. Comparisons are fine. It's when people use them in a critical, accusatory fashion that we as developers get a little "up-tight"
We are working hard to make a game that is both high quality and unique. When we get comments like "all the art in this game looks just like such and such a game" or "why are you using a symbol that is the same as another game, you should stop using it", those are not helpful, or constructive. The thing that gets me worked up more then anything else is being accused of ripping off someone else's work, which is one of the most disrespectful and amoral things you can do as an artist.
Saying "you know, that's cool, and just as an observation, it reminds me of...", that is perfectly acceptable.
Just trying to set the record straight, that we aren't all a bunch of tight ##### around here.
I personally find the armour model reminds me of the boss in UT. I wouldnt say it was copied though and I think it looks absolutely brilliant.