<!--QuoteBegin--Black Mage+Oct 29 2003, 04:13 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Black Mage @ Oct 29 2003, 04:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i'm going to agree with the devs on this one and say that a insta-farm is not a good thing
also i prefer my skill earned, not written <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> 1) You cannot insta-farm as certain structures must be built first. Plus any competent commander could place structures faster and better than a script could anyways.
2) Scripts do not give skill... They just make things easier.
I recon that exploits like cl_rate etc are not productive as a whole to the community and definitly not for competitive play.
My clan doesnt even war any more cause of this kinda crap, but we are still together, cause we love playing NS!
People that exploit the net code or use other "hacks, cheats, etc" are just sad people trying to make up for their lack of skill by coding themselves better. Its sad because most of the people that I know that use these xploits are sad 12 year old crappy players. Its kinda funny cause they are crap one day and then the next day they are amazingly better and they dont think that people will notice? I was playing last night with my clan and there was one dude on who we have played with quite a bit but dont like. He's normally easy enuff to kill. He got 27 kills as a regen lurk vs L3 weapons before we could kill him, and he didnt have umbra to hide behind, he had just set his code so that he was getting input faster than we were. Needless to say, he died and we still won so I dont think much of those coders who think that it is necessary to win a game.
If me and the rest of my clan can kill em easy, then where is the problem? None of us code, it's a cheap way to try and improve yourself.
Wow that post got long!!!
Oh, btw has anyone encountered ppl who will never EVER get off 1 team? wether it be Aliens or rines? Almost 100% chance that these people have got their code set up for one specific team.
Random facts before this thread gets locked up tight by a Mod...
Scripts can't 'bunnyhop' folks. Sure, they can make you swing your view left and right, and jump a lot, and toggle movement, but they do it with very low precision. Client-side scripts are dependant on your FPS, so even a slight jiggle in that and the script blows up royally.
Scripts can't be combined, nor can they be interrupted. Once one script is running, you can't 'trigger' another script. Sure, you could have 8 different 'unload and bounce away swinging wildly' scripts, say bound to your numeric keypad, but even the best of those would make you badly-maneuvering bait for any Alien or Marine in the area.
cl_rate CAN be used to evil purposes. RATE cannot. RATE is what is changed when you pick '56k Modem' instead of 'DSL' for your connection speed.
ex_interp was always meant to be 1/Your FPS. I.E. 0.1 if you had 10FPS, 0.01 if you had 100FPS. In the new STEAM version of HL, ex_interp is silently ignored for compatability, but internally set to your current FPS/100, so it's a non-issue now. It can smooth or destabailize your connection if misused in older, Won installs of HL, but it is not an exploit. It's meant to be tuned to your FPS, to improve the movement-prediction used on the client-side. Yes, adjusting it correctly can help you aim better, just like adjusting your gamma and brightness on your monitor can make things easier to spot, or lowering your resolution and turning off FSAA can make movement easier to notice because you'll spot the 'flickering pixels' faster.
Now then... where's a Mod with a padlock when you need one? =^.^=
Ex_interp is probably the most abused console exploit. I'd say only 3 (semi-accurate estimate) games out of the last 70 have been free of ex_interpping llama marines. Most of these games were on the [HK] server where CD is not installed (the admin said it would lag the server too much... riiiight <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> ).
Interp problems got out of hand in CS, to the point where it was blocked in one of the releases. Interp is a major issue in TFC and has been since forever. It should be addressed in a coming release.
Read what I wrote again: ex_interp adjusts your client-side movement prediction. It tweaks a couple of very core values, letting you force the movement prediction to match your frame-rate more accurately. How is that an exploit?
It's no different than adjusting your frame-rate to match the default prediction settings better. Both give you better client-side prediction. Again, <b>client-side</b> prediction. They don't affect the server-side, or how other players see you move. It's no different than adjusting your gamma or brightness, or setting your fps_max to 101 instead of 72.
If you did it in any league match in europe your clan would lose by default. If you did it in a scrimm the other clan would leave and youd get a bad rep. Its such a crap exploit becuase its so blatently obvious that your using it. Theres no reason to be concered about it, your crying over spilt milk.
Scripts..., as usual ignorant players have fathered the myth that scripts turn you into some sort of walking demigod. This just isnt the case. You cannot make scripts that bunnyhop for you or fire off all your weapons in 1 second. The most a script does is aid you doing things yourself.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Oh, btw has anyone encountered ppl who will never EVER get off 1 team? wether it be Aliens or rines? Almost 100% chance that these people have got their code set up for one specific team.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not true. In 1.04 I almost always played aliens. I still play aliens a lot more than marines now. Why? I have pretty low fps, especially when I am in a fight. It gets down to below 20, assuming there are no structures around, and if there is a pg and some turrets it can easily go below 10 during a fight. As a skulk, I can wildly move around and hold down the left mouse button and hope for the kill, or at least draw fire away from teammates. Or, I can go permagorge (what I usually do) and avoid direct combat. As a marine in combat, there is zero chance of killing a person if you don't use some aim, where as a skulk can run around completely randomly, completely lose his bearing in the room, and still get kills. I know this because this is how I got many of my kills in 1.04, although I have changed playing style due to RFK.
Anyway, my point is that that is a horrible assumption.
<!--QuoteBegin--Bun-Bun+Oct 29 2003, 09:23 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bun-Bun @ Oct 29 2003, 09:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Oh, btw has anyone encountered ppl who will never EVER get off 1 team? wether it be Aliens or rines? Almost 100% chance that these people have got their code set up for one specific team. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> binding a key to call for medpack sets up your config to play for one team.
Or, you can set up a whole extra button that switches you between configs for different teams, so you can have useful impulse commands bound according to what team you're on.
<!--QuoteBegin--Swiftspear+Oct 30 2003, 08:09 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Oct 30 2003, 08:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> do we consider binding "say /kill" to a single key a work of scripting?
is configuring your keyboard setings so you can use and activate all your keys more comfortably scripting?
what about binding other things like Bind m "say_team ONOS IN BASE, GET BACK NOW, GOGOGOGOGOGO!!!!!!!11!!1ONEONE"? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That's just ordinary binding. Something like "impulse 7; say_team 'commander, RT here please'" IS a script. Anyone saying that all scripts are bad and evil and scripting should be killed is generalizing(cant spell right now) a wee bit too much.
cl_rate is not an exploit ffs.Its like changing the connection type in the HL server list window!!Do you want 56kers to play with DSL type rates or vice versa?
ex_interp...currently locked to 0.1.But of course theres a way to bypass it.Im not telling.And i know there are other more EVIL commands out there.Um i remember....i think it was 1 or 2 cvar commands that killed FLF....i remember a clan going around using it.Took like 2 clips from guns to kill one of them.Became pointless to go up against people who were terminators.
Scripting is not evil.Only when it is used for evil uses is it evil.Sounds corny doesnt it.But i have a script of sorts....lets me use mousewheel to switch weapons.How is that evil or bad?Now if i were using scripts to do something else,say,make the take ammo exploit easier to do,now that would be bad.
<!--QuoteBegin--Hunty+Oct 30 2003, 09:28 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hunty @ Oct 30 2003, 09:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> cl_rate is not an exploit ffs. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> What you're talking about is rate.
What the people talking about exploits are discussing is cl_rate, something different.
Scripts/cvars are like a hammer. You can use it to build your game to suit your own computer, connection and style of gaming. Even though it is made for a purpose like this, doesn't mean that some wise guy couldn't kill someone with the hammer.
Still, most benefits made even from the most hardcore scrips are rather minimal.
Fine, you were able to change your interp value so that you hit things a while after they were there. That helps you sometimes, makes things harder sometimes. The benefit is very small if you compare it to ie. an aimbot.
Fine, you were able to use 3rd person. The benefit is very small if you compare it to ie. a wallhack.
Oh, and some elite haxor should correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the impulse command that requested medpack with marines do something with aliens as well? Or was it just 1.04< versions o.O
<!--QuoteBegin--Twoheadedchicken+Oct 29 2003, 08:49 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Twoheadedchicken @ Oct 29 2003, 08:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> cl_rate <b>is</b> an exploit, and its much worse than ex_interp <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> How the hell can cl_rate be used to give you an advantage?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->- cl_rate is extremely exploitable. Like (e)kent said, we tested it out on a private server to see what all the fuss was about. Everyone has a default cl_rate setting, but you can set the varible in such a way that it makes you appear laggy to other players, while you are completely smooth on your end. This makes it so much harder for you to be hit because you are teleporting across the screen in short intervals. You can set it to be anywhere from subtle to ridiculously blatent. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's a lot that hasn't been talked about or gone into detail about.
models - polygons that stick out of the player model on all sides. Since these new polygons have no hitboxes, they stick through walls. This is a wallhack. also, more accurate models depicting only the true hitboxes.
sound files - deleted ambient sound effects, or replaced with dummies. this gives you a hearing advantage where you shouldn't have one. dB increases/decreases on wav files.
sprites - more visible webs, more visible stomp, no muzzleflash, deleted ambient sprites (smoke in hallway after docking wing)
While these will not be a factor in steam, it's important to know what's being abused because I can assure you people are abusing each one of these right now. It's impossible to tell. Notice who's good now and who sucks in steam <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
also i prefer my skill earned, not written <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
1) You cannot insta-farm as certain structures must be built first. Plus any competent commander could place structures faster and better than a script could anyways.
2) Scripts do not give skill... They just make things easier.
I recon that exploits like cl_rate etc are not productive as a whole to the community and definitly not for competitive play.
My clan doesnt even war any more cause of this kinda crap, but we are still together, cause we love playing NS!
People that exploit the net code or use other "hacks, cheats, etc" are just sad people trying to make up for their lack of skill by coding themselves better. Its sad because most of the people that I know that use these xploits are sad 12 year old crappy players. Its kinda funny cause they are crap one day and then the next day they are amazingly better and they dont think that people will notice? I was playing last night with my clan and there was one dude on who we have played with quite a bit but dont like. He's normally easy enuff to kill. He got 27 kills as a regen lurk vs L3 weapons before we could kill him, and he didnt have umbra to hide behind, he had just set his code so that he was getting input faster than we were. Needless to say, he died and we still won so I dont think much of those coders who think that it is necessary to win a game.
If me and the rest of my clan can kill em easy, then where is the problem? None of us code, it's a cheap way to try and improve yourself.
Wow that post got long!!!
Oh, btw has anyone encountered ppl who will never EVER get off 1 team? wether it be Aliens or rines? Almost 100% chance that these people have got their code set up for one specific team.
Have fun guys, feel free to rebut!
Gorg Builds lame tower, Comm rebutts like this : <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->
Scripts can't 'bunnyhop' folks. Sure, they can make you swing your view left and right, and jump a lot, and toggle movement, but they do it with very low precision. Client-side scripts are dependant on your FPS, so even a slight jiggle in that and the script blows up royally.
Scripts can't be combined, nor can they be interrupted. Once one script is running, you can't 'trigger' another script. Sure, you could have 8 different 'unload and bounce away swinging wildly' scripts, say bound to your numeric keypad, but even the best of those would make you badly-maneuvering bait for any Alien or Marine in the area.
cl_rate CAN be used to evil purposes. RATE cannot. RATE is what is changed when you pick '56k Modem' instead of 'DSL' for your connection speed.
ex_interp was always meant to be 1/Your FPS. I.E. 0.1 if you had 10FPS, 0.01 if you had 100FPS. In the new STEAM version of HL, ex_interp is silently ignored for compatability, but internally set to your current FPS/100, so it's a non-issue now. It can smooth or destabailize your connection if misused in older, Won installs of HL, but it is not an exploit. It's meant to be tuned to your FPS, to improve the movement-prediction used on the client-side. Yes, adjusting it correctly can help you aim better, just like adjusting your gamma and brightness on your monitor can make things easier to spot, or lowering your resolution and turning off FSAA can make movement easier to notice because you'll spot the 'flickering pixels' faster.
Now then... where's a Mod with a padlock when you need one? =^.^=
Interp problems got out of hand in CS, to the point where it was blocked in one of the releases. Interp is a major issue in TFC and has been since forever. It should be addressed in a coming release.
Read what I wrote again: ex_interp adjusts your client-side movement prediction. It tweaks a couple of very core values, letting you force the movement prediction to match your frame-rate more accurately. How is that an exploit?
It's no different than adjusting your frame-rate to match the default prediction settings better. Both give you better client-side prediction. Again, <b>client-side</b> prediction. They don't affect the server-side, or how other players see you move. It's no different than adjusting your gamma or brightness, or setting your fps_max to 101 instead of 72.
If you did it in any league match in europe your clan would lose by default. If you did it in a scrimm the other clan would leave and youd get a bad rep. Its such a crap exploit becuase its so blatently obvious that your using it. Theres no reason to be concered about it, your crying over spilt milk.
Scripts..., as usual ignorant players have fathered the myth that scripts turn you into some sort of walking demigod. This just isnt the case. You cannot make scripts that bunnyhop for you or fire off all your weapons in 1 second. The most a script does is aid you doing things yourself.
do we consider binding "say /kill" to a single key a work of scripting?
is configuring your keyboard setings so you can use and activate all your keys more comfortably scripting?
what about binding other things like Bind m "say_team ONOS IN BASE, GET BACK NOW, GOGOGOGOGOGO!!!!!!!11!!1ONEONE"?
Not true. In 1.04 I almost always played aliens. I still play aliens a lot more than marines now. Why? I have pretty low fps, especially when I am in a fight. It gets down to below 20, assuming there are no structures around, and if there is a pg and some turrets it can easily go below 10 during a fight. As a skulk, I can wildly move around and hold down the left mouse button and hope for the kill, or at least draw fire away from teammates. Or, I can go permagorge (what I usually do) and avoid direct combat. As a marine in combat, there is zero chance of killing a person if you don't use some aim, where as a skulk can run around completely randomly, completely lose his bearing in the room, and still get kills. I know this because this is how I got many of my kills in 1.04, although I have changed playing style due to RFK.
Anyway, my point is that that is a horrible assumption.
Edit: spelling
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
binding a key to call for medpack sets up your config to play for one team.
Or, you can set up a whole extra button that switches you between configs for different teams, so you can have useful impulse commands bound according to what team you're on.
That's quite legit.
is configuring your keyboard setings so you can use and activate all your keys more comfortably scripting?
what about binding other things like Bind m "say_team ONOS IN BASE, GET BACK NOW, GOGOGOGOGOGO!!!!!!!11!!1ONEONE"? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's just ordinary binding.
Something like "impulse 7; say_team 'commander, RT here please'" IS a script.
Anyone saying that all scripts are bad and evil and scripting should be killed is generalizing(cant spell right now) a wee bit too much.
ex_interp...currently locked to 0.1.But of course theres a way to bypass it.Im not telling.And i know there are other more EVIL commands out there.Um i remember....i think it was 1 or 2 cvar commands that killed FLF....i remember a clan going around using it.Took like 2 clips from guns to kill one of them.Became pointless to go up against people who were terminators.
Scripting is not evil.Only when it is used for evil uses is it evil.Sounds corny doesnt it.But i have a script of sorts....lets me use mousewheel to switch weapons.How is that evil or bad?Now if i were using scripts to do something else,say,make the take ammo exploit easier to do,now that would be bad.
What you're talking about is rate.
What the people talking about exploits are discussing is cl_rate, something different.
ROFL I musta been so hard to hit, 56K skulk with a cl_rate of 2001.
A lot of you need to understand how the half life netcode works before you start commenting on ex_interp etc
<a href='http://www.sogamed.com/features.php?id=1' target='_blank'>Take a look here</a>
Scripts/cvars are like a hammer. You can use it to build your game to suit your own computer, connection and style of gaming. Even though it is made for a purpose like this, doesn't mean that some wise guy couldn't kill someone with the hammer.
Still, most benefits made even from the most hardcore scrips are rather minimal.
Fine, you were able to change your interp value so that you hit things a while after they were there. That helps you sometimes, makes things harder sometimes. The benefit is very small if you compare it to ie. an aimbot.
Fine, you were able to use 3rd person. The benefit is very small if you compare it to ie. a wallhack.
Oh, and some elite haxor should correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the impulse command that requested medpack with marines do something with aliens as well? Or was it just 1.04< versions o.O
How the hell can cl_rate be used to give you an advantage?
Putting it too low so that you lag warp?
quoted from my first post in this thread
models - polygons that stick out of the player model on all sides. Since these new polygons have no hitboxes, they stick through walls. This is a wallhack. also, more accurate models depicting only the true hitboxes.
sound files - deleted ambient sound effects, or replaced with dummies. this gives you a hearing advantage where you shouldn't have one. dB increases/decreases on wav files.
sprites - more visible webs, more visible stomp, no muzzleflash, deleted ambient sprites (smoke in hallway after docking wing)
While these will not be a factor in steam, it's important to know what's being abused because I can assure you people are abusing each one of these right now. It's impossible to tell. Notice who's good now and who sucks in steam <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->