Zig...I am Captain Planet!Join Date: 2002-10-23Member: 1576Members
edited October 2003
<i>ohhhh</i>.
edit: thx for helping me understand.
i suppose, now... that, like so many other things, the core issue is whether or not you're gonna deal with people's sh*t. it's just coping with possible conditions, i guess.
I hardly think personal image is on equal footing with personal belief. Vegetarianism is NOT the same as what piercings you get, nor is hair color choice indicative of manners. I'm finding that much stake is being put into what things look like on the surface here. The only reason why people are making fun of you is because of appearance and sheer boredom. That's not to say that personal style isn't important, but to think that personal style is THAT important is strong. And, honestly, that's exactly what I'm seeing right now.
esuna, think about it... there's something rather disturbing when you end up classifying "Subcultures" by personal style rather than way of life. And, seriously, way of life boils down to this, no matter WHAT subculture you're a part of: eat, sleep, crap, work, get cash, get sexual release, poke around with your hobby (a very general term, mind you).
I think it's a bit more difficult to understand because you end up having to transcend the mindset of high school image, above all that Linkin Park crap. I say this because, actually, I'm more into Uranium's camp (though with an eye to absurdity, as usual)... I enjoy letting so-called "subcultures" know my opinions on their style-driven lives. I've seen enough indie rock elitists and idiotic emo kids at concerts to know when to draw the line.
<!--QuoteBegin--Lord Fanny-[MacH]+Nov 1 2003, 03:16 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lord Fanny-[MacH] @ Nov 1 2003, 03:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I hardly think personal image is on equal footing with personal belief. Vegetarianism is NOT the same as what piercings you get, nor is hair color choice indicative of manners. I'm finding that much stake is being put into what things look like on the surface here. The only reason why people are making fun of you is because of appearance and sheer boredom. That's not to say that personal style isn't important, but to think that personal style is THAT important is strong. And, honestly, that's exactly what I'm seeing right now.
esuna, think about it... there's something rather disturbing when you end up classifying "Subcultures" by personal style rather than way of life. And, seriously, way of life boils down to this, no matter WHAT subculture you're a part of: eat, sleep, crap, work, get cash, get sexual release, poke around with your hobby (a very general term, mind you).
I think it's a bit more difficult to understand because you end up having to transcend the mindset of high school image, above all that Linkin Park crap. I say this because, actually, I'm more into Uranium's camp (though with an eye to absurdity, as usual)... I enjoy letting so-called "subcultures" know my opinions on their style-driven lives. I've seen enough indie rock elitists and idiotic emo kids at concerts to know when to draw the line. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You don't need to patronise me.
I am well aware that with sub-cultures comes, well, the culture, don't label me a fool because i've not brought any of those things up. I've never had someone shout "i am opposed to your goth ideals because of your promiscuous sex!" or "i hate punks because of their anarchist ideals!", no, people shout because you're wearing something funny. That's why.
And do you know what? Looking how i do <b>is</b> a big thing for me. It's not because i want people to look at me, it makes me feel better, i believe that my ability to look however i want to look is a basic freedom that i should NOT be beaten down for by small minded idiots, imagine if you had one of your basic rights taken away, or ridiculed.
What makes you think that we, in sub-cultures, live style-driven lives? While i have spent a long time in the goth scene (Being an exceptionally vain scene) style is not everything at all, to claim that it is all just the clothes you wear is plain ignorant.
Also, have you ever thought that those "indie rock elitists" and "idiotic emo kids" are actually <i>nice people</i>? Have you ever stopped to think all these people you try to offend <b>don't deserve your hate</b>?
*EDIT: Just another thought, where you say that people are making fun of me because of "appearance and sheer boredom". I know for a fact these 'people' aren't just going to hang out in town just to shout abuse at people that look different, they are just going about their daily lives and decide to fit this in as and when they can, it's not boredom, they seem to make no conscious effort or decision to spend a day spreading hate, it just happens along the course of it.
<!--QuoteBegin--::esuna::+Nov 1 2003, 10:55 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (::esuna:: @ Nov 1 2003, 10:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I am well aware that with sub-cultures comes, well, the culture, don't label me a fool because i've not brought any of those things up. I've never had someone shout "i am opposed to your goth ideals because of your promiscuous sex!" or "i hate punks because of their anarchist ideals!", no, people shout because you're wearing something funny. That's why.
And do you know what? Looking how i do <b>is</b> a big thing for me. It's not because i want people to look at me, it makes me feel better, i believe that my ability to look however i want to look is a basic freedom that i should NOT be beaten down for by small minded idiots, imagine if you had one of your basic rights taken away, or ridiculed.
What makes you think that we, in sub-cultures, live style-driven lives? While i have spent a long time in the goth scene (Being an exceptionally vain scene) style is not everything at all, to claim that it is all just the clothes you wear is plain ignorant.
Also, have you ever thought that those "indie rock elitists" and "idiotic emo kids" are actually <i>nice people</i>? Have you ever stopped to think all these people you try to offend <b>don't deserve your hate</b>?
*EDIT: Just another thought, where you say that people are making fun of me because of "appearance and sheer boredom". I know for a fact these 'people' aren't just going to hang out in town just to shout abuse at people that look different, they are just going about their daily lives and decide to fit this in as and when they can, it's not boredom, they seem to make no conscious effort or decision to spend a day spreading hate, it just happens along the course of it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Okay, so it's a general issue about being nice to people? Well **** that.
Look, when "they are just going about their daily lives and decide to fit this in as and when they can" and " That IS boredom. If a guy is sitting in class, waiting for a teacher to show up, and decides to make fun of someone... that IS boredom. It is NOT anything more than that. Now that I see where you're at, I realize that you're taking a complete non-issue and blowing it far too much out of proportion, as it almost always is by every person of our age out there, from school shooters to myself (it's no wonder that the aforementioned Linkin Park and all that Nu Metal was so popular, and ironic when the very persons they describe turn away from it for being "inauthentic"... Jhonen Vasquez is laughing at all of you). You'll get over it, unless you insist on continuing to get "your rights hurt" by "hate". I thought you were going to bring up a relevant issue about teen subcultures and cliques, but instead this turns out to be a thread about how you get picked on at school with a nice bemoaning of "conformity" on the side (ironic to whomever brought that up, since ALL of us are conformists, it's just that some of us accept ourselves as BEING conformists). Honey, learn to DANCE.
Well, if the only dissenting opinions you wanted were from ACTUAL BULLIES then you should have said so.
This is ludicrous. You wanted opinions about an issue. When I give one that I think is pretty much on your level, you ditch it and want to lock the topic.
<!--QuoteBegin--Lord Fanny-[MacH]+Nov 1 2003, 04:36 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lord Fanny-[MacH] @ Nov 1 2003, 04:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well, if the only dissenting opinions you wanted were from ACTUAL BULLIES then you should have said so.
This is ludicrous. You wanted opinions about an issue. When I give one that I think is pretty much on your level, you ditch it and want to lock the topic. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No, i was after opinions on the issue that didn't involve being patronising and condescending, both of which are rife in each of your replies.
That is all i'll say on the subject. I've reported this thread and i'm still asking for it to be locked.
<!--QuoteBegin--::esuna::+Nov 1 2003, 11:42 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (::esuna:: @ Nov 1 2003, 11:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> No, i was after opinions on the issue that didn't involve being patronising and condescending, both of which are rife in each of your replies.
That is all i'll say on the subject. I've reported this thread and i'm still asking for it to be locked. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Get used to it, honey.
Marik_SteeleTo rule in hell...Join Date: 2002-11-20Member: 9466Members
This got a bit nasty.<span style='color:orange'>*locked*</span> by thread-starter's request. By the way, Fanny: "also, I am obligated to mess with everyone who isn't me" may not have been the best choice of attitudes to have here.
Comments
edit: thx for helping me understand.
i suppose, now... that, like so many other things, the core issue is whether or not you're gonna deal with people's sh*t. it's just coping with possible conditions, i guess.
esuna, think about it... there's something rather disturbing when you end up classifying "Subcultures" by personal style rather than way of life. And, seriously, way of life boils down to this, no matter WHAT subculture you're a part of: eat, sleep, crap, work, get cash, get sexual release, poke around with your hobby (a very general term, mind you).
I think it's a bit more difficult to understand because you end up having to transcend the mindset of high school image, above all that Linkin Park crap. I say this because, actually, I'm more into Uranium's camp (though with an eye to absurdity, as usual)... I enjoy letting so-called "subcultures" know my opinions on their style-driven lives. I've seen enough indie rock elitists and idiotic emo kids at concerts to know when to draw the line.
esuna, think about it... there's something rather disturbing when you end up classifying "Subcultures" by personal style rather than way of life. And, seriously, way of life boils down to this, no matter WHAT subculture you're a part of: eat, sleep, crap, work, get cash, get sexual release, poke around with your hobby (a very general term, mind you).
I think it's a bit more difficult to understand because you end up having to transcend the mindset of high school image, above all that Linkin Park crap. I say this because, actually, I'm more into Uranium's camp (though with an eye to absurdity, as usual)... I enjoy letting so-called "subcultures" know my opinions on their style-driven lives. I've seen enough indie rock elitists and idiotic emo kids at concerts to know when to draw the line. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You don't need to patronise me.
I am well aware that with sub-cultures comes, well, the culture, don't label me a fool because i've not brought any of those things up. I've never had someone shout "i am opposed to your goth ideals because of your promiscuous sex!" or "i hate punks because of their anarchist ideals!", no, people shout because you're wearing something funny. That's why.
And do you know what? Looking how i do <b>is</b> a big thing for me. It's not because i want people to look at me, it makes me feel better, i believe that my ability to look however i want to look is a basic freedom that i should NOT be beaten down for by small minded idiots, imagine if you had one of your basic rights taken away, or ridiculed.
What makes you think that we, in sub-cultures, live style-driven lives? While i have spent a long time in the goth scene (Being an exceptionally vain scene) style is not everything at all, to claim that it is all just the clothes you wear is plain ignorant.
Also, have you ever thought that those "indie rock elitists" and "idiotic emo kids" are actually <i>nice people</i>? Have you ever stopped to think all these people you try to offend <b>don't deserve your hate</b>?
*EDIT:
Just another thought, where you say that people are making fun of me because of "appearance and sheer boredom". I know for a fact these 'people' aren't just going to hang out in town just to shout abuse at people that look different, they are just going about their daily lives and decide to fit this in as and when they can, it's not boredom, they seem to make no conscious effort or decision to spend a day spreading hate, it just happens along the course of it.
And do you know what? Looking how i do <b>is</b> a big thing for me. It's not because i want people to look at me, it makes me feel better, i believe that my ability to look however i want to look is a basic freedom that i should NOT be beaten down for by small minded idiots, imagine if you had one of your basic rights taken away, or ridiculed.
What makes you think that we, in sub-cultures, live style-driven lives? While i have spent a long time in the goth scene (Being an exceptionally vain scene) style is not everything at all, to claim that it is all just the clothes you wear is plain ignorant.
Also, have you ever thought that those "indie rock elitists" and "idiotic emo kids" are actually <i>nice people</i>? Have you ever stopped to think all these people you try to offend <b>don't deserve your hate</b>?
*EDIT:
Just another thought, where you say that people are making fun of me because of "appearance and sheer boredom". I know for a fact these 'people' aren't just going to hang out in town just to shout abuse at people that look different, they are just going about their daily lives and decide to fit this in as and when they can, it's not boredom, they seem to make no conscious effort or decision to spend a day spreading hate, it just happens along the course of it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Okay, so it's a general issue about being nice to people? Well **** that.
Look, when "they are just going about their daily lives and decide to fit this in as and when they can" and " That IS boredom. If a guy is sitting in class, waiting for a teacher to show up, and decides to make fun of someone... that IS boredom. It is NOT anything more than that. Now that I see where you're at, I realize that you're taking a complete non-issue and blowing it far too much out of proportion, as it almost always is by every person of our age out there, from school shooters to myself (it's no wonder that the aforementioned Linkin Park and all that Nu Metal was so popular, and ironic when the very persons they describe turn away from it for being "inauthentic"... Jhonen Vasquez is laughing at all of you). You'll get over it, unless you insist on continuing to get "your rights hurt" by "hate". I thought you were going to bring up a relevant issue about teen subcultures and cliques, but instead this turns out to be a thread about how you get picked on at school with a nice bemoaning of "conformity" on the side (ironic to whomever brought that up, since ALL of us are conformists, it's just that some of us accept ourselves as BEING conformists). Honey, learn to DANCE.
Moderators, can you lock this topic please.
This is ludicrous. You wanted opinions about an issue. When I give one that I think is pretty much on your level, you ditch it and want to lock the topic.
This is ludicrous. You wanted opinions about an issue. When I give one that I think is pretty much on your level, you ditch it and want to lock the topic. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, i was after opinions on the issue that didn't involve being patronising and condescending, both of which are rife in each of your replies.
That is all i'll say on the subject. I've reported this thread and i'm still asking for it to be locked.
That is all i'll say on the subject. I've reported this thread and i'm still asking for it to be locked. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Get used to it, honey.
By the way, Fanny: "also, I am obligated to mess with everyone who isn't me" may not have been the best choice of attitudes to have here.