<!--QuoteBegin--SoulSkorpion+Nov 4 2003, 01:56 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SoulSkorpion @ Nov 4 2003, 01:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Vo0do0-MoNk3h+Nov 4 2003, 09:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Vo0do0-MoNk3h @ Nov 4 2003, 09:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I never even noticed that _special was in NS, probably due to lack of secondary fire modes? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's <span style='font-family:Courier'>special</span>, not <span style='font-family:Courier'>_special</span>. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually in other mods that I have witnessed _special it WAS due to a secondary fire mode. I know this for a fact since I have seen the bunnyhop scripts which call +attack2 to trigger _special each time. The reasoning I heard was due to _special being used as +attack2 in old versions of HL or something, and the "_special Unknown Command" that repeatedly appeared in the console everytime secondary fire was used is because of some remains of the old command in the code. Nonetheless there is no reason for it anymore that I am aware of, other than creating scripts.
<!--QuoteBegin---kR>Hicks+Nov 5 2003, 05:52 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-kR>Hicks @ Nov 5 2003, 05:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> A lot of french top-players use a freaking bhop scrpts ;D They are so cute.. they do always the SAME movement lol <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Since you can't script the <b>movement</b>, i'm going to postulate that you don't have a clue what you're talking about.
<!--QuoteBegin--TeoH+Nov 5 2003, 07:09 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TeoH @ Nov 5 2003, 07:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin---kR>Hicks+Nov 5 2003, 05:52 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-kR>Hicks @ Nov 5 2003, 05:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> A lot of french top-players use a freaking bhop scrpts ;D They are so cute.. they do always the SAME movement lol <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Since you can't script the <b>movement</b>, i'm going to postulate that you don't have a clue what you're talking about. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well... you can, sorta. Not the animation, but you can script the movement. Can't you? Same as writing a rocket jump script.
<!--QuoteBegin--SoulSkorpion+Nov 5 2003, 10:57 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SoulSkorpion @ Nov 5 2003, 10:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--TeoH+Nov 5 2003, 07:09 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TeoH @ Nov 5 2003, 07:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin---kR>Hicks+Nov 5 2003, 05:52 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-kR>Hicks @ Nov 5 2003, 05:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> A lot of french top-players use a freaking bhop scrpts ;D They are so cute.. they do always the SAME movement lol <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Since you can't script the <b>movement</b>, i'm going to postulate that you don't have a clue what you're talking about. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well... you can, sorta. Not the animation, but you can script the movement. Can't you? Same as writing a rocket jump script. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Umm... the same movements will work for the same area's?
Sorry, but a complete bhop script would be damn near useless.
A rocket jump script is a single mechanical action, you look at a certain angle, you fire and you jump. The limited form of Rjumping possible through scripting requires no interaction with the game world, and is simple to create.
Although many would argue the RJ script to be pointless and cumbersome, you can still make an argument that it may be usable in a game situation. You cannot make such an argument for any sort of hop script that attempts to perform the movement for you. Trying to set keyboard turn rate and script a series of turns using console commands is pointless, the script cannot see the environment infront of you, so it cannot navigate you through such an environment. It also doesn't know inital factors such as the direction you're facing or any motion you already have upon execution.
You can't script BH movement in a meaningful way anymore than you can script a player to run out of the IP, across the map and start shooting at an alien hive in a single alias command. The closest thing i can imagine to scripted BH movement, would be a Left and Right alias for turning in the air, which would simply be a keyboard turn command that holds the appropriate strafe key down. It would require you to align yourself with your direction of motion first, would only allow you to turn at the set keyboard speed, giving you no real control over your movement, ontop of that it still wouldn't perform the motion for you, you'd have to control it around corners in exactly the same way you would otherwise have to - except without the fine control of a mouse. It would be for all intents and purposes, a useless sript.
A rocket jump and bunnyhop script (one that bunnyhops for you) are both totally pointless because you can do them MUCH MUCH better manually. You'd have no control of where you're going with a bhop script and with a RJ script you can only do one angle of jump, plus you overjump lots of times and waste health. And you don't get the benefit of being able to do low angle jumps with lots of vertical motion.
Basically, cry scripts all you want, but they really don't make a very big difference at all. I don't use em but don't think that scripts are such a huge advantadge...
Plus you'd have to have a constant FPS or your bhop script would get totally messed up.
<!--QuoteBegin--e.Maven+Nov 5 2003, 07:55 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (e.Maven @ Nov 5 2003, 07:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> There are two ways to look at bunnyhopping.
1. When the game was developed, I'm sure bunnyhop wasn't inserted into the engine on purpose. With that said, bunnyhopping is an exploit. We all know it is an exploit, but those of us he use it want to think it is not. Bunnyhopping is exploitation of the engine, therefore it is an exploit. 2. Some gaming communities have accepted bunnyhopping, such as TFC. All top clanners are at about the same speed, and all aspiring clans strive to be exceptional bhoppers. They do not frown upon it, they know it is an exploit, but it is part of their game.
The NS community seems to have very conflicting views on bunnyhopping, but I personally accept it as part of NS, and I will practice it every day..... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, there is only one way to define an "Exploit": something that gives a player an advantage that is unintended and unwanted by the developers.
In this case, the developer is Flayra. It may be an exploit in Half Life, but it isn't in NS because Flayra specifically decided to leave it in as a FEATURE for the aliens. NS is not the same as Half Life.
But in this case, it's not inconcievable that my opinion disagrees with Flayra's, now, is it?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> How pretentious of you. How is it that you feel that your opinion should hold weight over the person WHO CREATED THE GAME. It is HIS vision that matters here, NOT yours. You can consider bunnyhopping an exploit in HL or TFC or HLDM, but it is not in a game where it is left in by choice. I would question TFC and HLDM as well, because Valve has had plenty of chance to remove it, they have just chosen not to. There is a difference between a bug, and an exploit. Please learn it. Bugs can become features if they turn out to be desireable. Just ask Microsoft =P
But in this case, it's not inconcievable that my opinion disagrees with Flayra's, now, is it?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> How pretentious of you. How is it that you feel that your opinion should hold weight over the person WHO CREATED THE GAME. It is HIS vision that matters here, NOT yours. You can consider bunnyhopping an exploit in HL or TFC or HLDM, but it is not in a game where it is left in by choice. I would question TFC and HLDM as well, because Valve has had plenty of chance to remove it, they have just chosen not to. There is a difference between a bug, and an exploit. Please learn it. Bugs can become features if they turn out to be desireable. Just ask Microsoft =P <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <s>You idiot.</s> You've missed the point.
Let's quote the whole thing, in context, shall we?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm going to classify bunnyhopping scripts in here, because I personally believe bunnyhopping to be an exploit. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If it was an exploit, then please tell me why they took bunnyhopping out for marines but left it in for aliens? I suppose you can personally believe anything, but most people around here are just going to laugh at you for calling bunnyhopping an exploit. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I said that, in my opinion, bunnyhopping is an exploit. You said "If it was an exploit, then please tell me why they took bunnyhopping out for marines but left it in for aliens?". Those were your words. My response to your question was: "my opinion about bunnyhopping and the devs' opinion about bunnyhopping are not the same. That is not an implausible scenario. It's still a matter of opinion, and the opinion of developers is not proof one way or another." That is why they took out bunnyhopping for one side and not the other: because they do not believe it is an exploit (or bad, or whatever).
Now you explain to me: where the hell did I say my opinion carries more weight than Flayra's, and that he should drop everything to adhere to my will?
Removing _special will not take out bunnyhopping (although for some it will, QQ). Taking out _special is a good thing, its just too easy to bunnyhop with a _special script, trust me, I've tried. You can hold down space bar and not miss a hop <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Pheus_+Nov 4 2003, 04:53 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Pheus_ @ Nov 4 2003, 04:53 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Bah!, i dont see the big deal about _special, just makes it to you have to hold a button instead of scroll a wheel. (tho yer, it does make you go a bit faster). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> ...soo what you're saying is there is nothing special about _special AHHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHA
<!--QuoteBegin--e.Maven+Nov 5 2003, 04:08 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (e.Maven @ Nov 5 2003, 04:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 3. If you are being repeatedly slaughtered by Nadagast, Syckness, Me, or any other member of envy for that matter, it has nothing to do with scripts. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Nada's uber gorging skills owns me <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
I remember the debates that sprang up when B-Hopping was first removed for marines, but not for aliens.
Do any of you remember HOW B-Hopping was removed? There is no command you can toggle off to prevent B-Hopping. Marines were prevented from B-Hopping by making it so that whenever a jumping marine touched the ground, he would be dramatically slowed down.
The consensus at the time was that Alien B-Hopping was not removed because forcing all jumping aliens (even non-B-Hoppers) to lose most of their speed when they hit the ground would mess up the combat style of the skulk too much.
The mere fact that Alien B-Hopping was not removed is <i><b>not</b></i> evidence that the developers thought it was acceptable for Aliens. You cannot simply "remove" B-Hopping, it can only be disabled by cumbersome workarounds that the Devs thought would hurt more than help for the Aliens.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You cannot simply "remove" B-Hopping, it can only be disabled by cumbersome workarounds that the Devs thought would hurt more than help for the Aliens.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong. You have to hold down crouch to bunnyhop as a skulk, because otherwise you have no air accel. If they removed air accel for aliens including when holding down crouch for skulks, no one would be able to bunnyhop. Fact is, it is hard enough as it is to get kills as a skulk, and bunnyhopping just about evens the playing field. I've played on servers where no one could bunnyhop, and it was pathetic. I totally raped as marine. Bunnyhopping is needed for skulks, that is why it is left in. Ever notice that a fade gets no speed from bunnyhopping (crouch or no crouch)? They could of done the same thing for skulks, but they chose not to.
If I missed the point then it was due to your failure to adequetly convey your measage. However, you're still saying the same things, so I don't see how I missed your point. In context or not, "But in this case, it's not inconcievable that my opinion disagrees with Flayra's, now, is it?" sounds like you feel your opinion is more important than Flayra's. Point is, this is not a matter of opinion. Get that through your head. It is a matter of what the DEVS put in the game, and they put bunnyhopping in. Point is, your opinion on bunnyhopping doesn't matter one iota. Point is, you need to wake up and realize that it is part of the game, intentionally, is not an exploit, and that you should just stop crying about it and learn to do it yourself. Nuff said on this. If you can't be convinced of this simple point, you're too irrational to have a meaningful discussion with. Think what you want, but the only person who will give a rat's **** about your opinion is yourself.
Sling a Fade *definately* does get speed from bunnyhop <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Every alien can bhop except Lerk really...
And I'm pretty sure the reason you can't bhop without holding +duck with a skulk is that you 'stick' to the ground which reduces your speed to 100% of normal.
Wow, this is as almost as good as politics. Arguing is good practice for real life, remember that.
Main problem with continuing this thread: Everyone's opinion on cheats are different. There's no compromise where everyone can be happy, and that's why these arguments start up. It's politics.
But just to make an #%$ of myself and be contradicting, I'll say that scripting isn't an exploit (unless they spent all that time to accidently make those commands) and that Bunnyhopping is (It's a side effect of the physics engine, and shouldn't happen in real life.) Should a creature really be able to move faster by jumping up into the air and going on it's side, where there's more air resistance, then just running forward? I don't see any Cheetas bunny-hopping, afterall. o.o
What I do is just use real life physics as a judge. Scripting is okay to a point, because all we are doing is just trying to make the best use of a keyboard, which isn't really a good way to truely play a FPS game. Should I be able to crouch while jumping in RL? Then that script's okay. Should a creature have to 'select' the weapon before using it? No, just claw the #*^%#@%, so that script's fine. Should I be able to fire ten shots with one trigger pull with a standard issue semi-auto pistol? No, so that script shouldn't be used.
PS: I found it funny that you were sucking up to Flayra in these posts. Not that it's generally a bad idea, but you really did jump to conclusions with SoulSkorpian's remark: He's got a right to disagree with the developer's descision. It doesn't automaticly mean that he belives that Flayra should change opinions just because Soul says so.
Edit: Customized the swear filter. Asterisks are boring.
You are playing Flay's game... therefore it's his oppinion that matters most when judging if something is an exploit or not.
Isn't that obvious? I mean, like, pre-school logic? I mean, the very definition of an exploit is something that's NOT MEANT TO BE THERE!!! And who decides if it should be there or not? THE DEV!!!! And who's the ultimate dev? FLAYRA!! WOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOW
Therefore, if he says it's an exploit, it's an exploit! And if he says otherwise, it's not an exploit! CASE CLOSED! Common sense prevails, YET AGAIN!
Okay, I conceed. Your simplistic logic overrides my beliefs.
I disagree with Flayra's decision to not remove bunnyhopping from both teams. This is nothing more then a personal opinion I have, and should not be taken seriously, for I am just another person on this earth. Flayra has contributed more then I ever known to Natural Selection, whilst I have just contributed higher pings and my ability to act as a meatshield.
Note: No scarasm intended. I just wanted to back up Soul Skorpian, and throw you offguard, since noone in the history of any forum has ever declared that they were wrong in an argument. That's why they call me Insane.
<!--QuoteBegin--SoulSkorpion+Nov 4 2003, 08:56 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SoulSkorpion @ Nov 4 2003, 08:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Vo0do0-MoNk3h+Nov 4 2003, 09:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Vo0do0-MoNk3h @ Nov 4 2003, 09:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I never even noticed that _special was in NS, probably due to lack of secondary fire modes? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's <span style='font-family:Courier'>special</span>, not <span style='font-family:Courier'>_special</span>. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> All I ever notice is when I join a game I get Unknown Command: _special for some reason. I never heard of it till now.
I agree with lucid. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
If I missed the point then it was due to your failure to adequetly convey your measage. However, you're still saying the same things, so I don't see how I missed your point. In context or not, "But in this case, it's not inconcievable that my opinion disagrees with Flayra's, now, is it?" sounds like you feel your opinion is more important than Flayra's. Point is, this is not a matter of opinion. Get that through your head. It is a matter of what the DEVS put in the game, and they put bunnyhopping in. Point is, your opinion on bunnyhopping doesn't matter one iota. Point is, you need to wake up and realize that it is part of the game, intentionally, is not an exploit, and that you should just stop crying about it and learn to do it yourself. Nuff said on this. If you can't be convinced of this simple point, you're too irrational to have a meaningful discussion with. Think what you want, but the only person who will give a rat's **** about your opinion is yourself. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> *sigh* You still don't get it. I give up. No point in wasting my energy arguing further.
<!--QuoteBegin--Insanity~Gizmo+Nov 6 2003, 07:28 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Insanity~Gizmo @ Nov 6 2003, 07:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Bunnyhopping is (It's a side effect of the physics engine, and shouldn't happen in real life.) Should a creature really be able to move faster by jumping up into the air and going on it's side, where there's more air resistance, then just running forward?
....
<b>What I do is just use real life physics as a judge.</b> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> If you're going to do that, you might as well just throw out the whole game.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I mean, the very definition of an exploit is something that's NOT MEANT TO BE THERE!!! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, 'the very definition of an exploit' is:
<i>ex·ploit (ksploit, k-sploit) n.
1. An act or deed, especially a brilliant or heroic one. See Synonyms at feat1.
2. To employ to the greatest possible advantage: exploit one's talents.
3. To make use of selfishly or unethically: a country that exploited peasant labor. See Synonyms at manipulate. To advertise; promote. </i>
Note how Flayra's name isnt in there, also note that the only definition which even vaguely fits the way you're trying to use the word is completely subjective, and not at all helpful in trying to settle your little dispute. You know why this definition doesn't fit the term you're using? Because the term, in the way you mean it, is imaginary, and has no formal definition. So trying to argue with someone over it, or use a statement such as 'The very definition of an exploit...' is quite silly.
Bunnyhopping for Alien classes could easily be curbed by setting the Air speed cap to a very low value, or simply by setting it to 100%. Since abilities like leap and lerk flight already bypass the air speed cap, this would only really effect BHing, or possibly knockback. I'm quite sure Flay knows this, and so you can interpret the presence of alien hopping as a green flag.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Wrong. You have to hold down crouch to bunnyhop as a skulk, <b>because otherwise you have no air accel.</b> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
False
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If they removed air accel for aliens including when holding down crouch for skulks, no one would be able to bunnyhop. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
False
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ever notice that a fade gets no speed from bunnyhopping (crouch or no crouch)? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
False
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And I'm pretty sure the reason you can't bhop without holding +duck with a skulk is that you 'stick' to the ground <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Sling_Blade+Nov 6 2003, 02:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sling_Blade @ Nov 6 2003, 02:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You cannot simply "remove" B-Hopping, it can only be disabled by cumbersome workarounds that the Devs thought would hurt more than help for the Aliens.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong. You have to hold down crouch to bunnyhop as a skulk, because otherwise you have no air accel. If they removed air accel for aliens including when holding down crouch for skulks, no one would be able to bunnyhop. Fact is, it is hard enough as it is to get kills as a skulk, and bunnyhopping just about evens the playing field. I've played on servers where no one could bunnyhop, and it was pathetic. I totally raped as marine. Bunnyhopping is needed for skulks, that is why it is left in. Ever notice that a fade gets no speed from bunnyhopping (crouch or no crouch)? They could of done the same thing for skulks, but they chose not to. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Wrong, u can bhop as skulk also not holding down crouch... <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> I think u can't bhop right man <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> I bhop with marine (a little), gorge, skulk, fade and Onos
In my opinion, Good keyboard mapping and some degree of skill will (for the most part) always beat scripts. Example, taken from the config.cfg file ^^ : <!--c1--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1--> ...random binds and stuff... bind "MWHEELUP" "slot3" bind "MWHEELDOWN" "slot1" ... more binds hud_fastswitch "1" ..more stuff... <!--c2--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--ec2--> This will anihilate any leap/bite script.
Comments
That's <span style='font-family:Courier'>special</span>, not <span style='font-family:Courier'>_special</span>. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually in other mods that I have witnessed _special it WAS due to a secondary fire mode. I know this for a fact since I have seen the bunnyhop scripts which call +attack2 to trigger _special each time. The reasoning I heard was due to _special being used as +attack2 in old versions of HL or something, and the "_special Unknown Command" that repeatedly appeared in the console everytime secondary fire was used is because of some remains of the old command in the code. Nonetheless there is no reason for it anymore that I am aware of, other than creating scripts.
They are so cute..
they do always the SAME movement lol <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Since you can't script the <b>movement</b>, i'm going to postulate that you don't have a clue what you're talking about.
They are so cute..
they do always the SAME movement lol <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Since you can't script the <b>movement</b>, i'm going to postulate that you don't have a clue what you're talking about. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well... you can, sorta. Not the animation, but you can script the movement. Can't you? Same as writing a rocket jump script.
They are so cute..
they do always the SAME movement lol <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Since you can't script the <b>movement</b>, i'm going to postulate that you don't have a clue what you're talking about. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well... you can, sorta. Not the animation, but you can script the movement. Can't you? Same as writing a rocket jump script. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Umm... the same movements will work for the same area's?
Sorry, but a complete bhop script would be damn near useless.
Although many would argue the RJ script to be pointless and cumbersome, you can still make an argument that it may be usable in a game situation. You cannot make such an argument for any sort of hop script that attempts to perform the movement for you. Trying to set keyboard turn rate and script a series of turns using console commands is pointless, the script cannot see the environment infront of you, so it cannot navigate you through such an environment. It also doesn't know inital factors such as the direction you're facing or any motion you already have upon execution.
You can't script BH movement in a meaningful way anymore than you can script a player to run out of the IP, across the map and start shooting at an alien hive in a single alias command. The closest thing i can imagine to scripted BH movement, would be a Left and Right alias for turning in the air, which would simply be a keyboard turn command that holds the appropriate strafe key down. It would require you to align yourself with your direction of motion first, would only allow you to turn at the set keyboard speed, giving you no real control over your movement, ontop of that it still wouldn't perform the motion for you, you'd have to control it around corners in exactly the same way you would otherwise have to - except without the fine control of a mouse. It would be for all intents and purposes, a useless sript.
Basically, cry scripts all you want, but they really don't make a very big difference at all. I don't use em but don't think that scripts are such a huge advantadge...
Plus you'd have to have a constant FPS or your bhop script would get totally messed up.
1. When the game was developed, I'm sure bunnyhop wasn't inserted into the engine on purpose. With that said, bunnyhopping is an exploit. We all know it is an exploit, but those of us he use it want to think it is not. Bunnyhopping is exploitation of the engine, therefore it is an exploit.
2. Some gaming communities have accepted bunnyhopping, such as TFC. All top clanners are at about the same speed, and all aspiring clans strive to be exceptional bhoppers. They do not frown upon it, they know it is an exploit, but it is part of their game.
The NS community seems to have very conflicting views on bunnyhopping, but I personally accept it as part of NS, and I will practice it every day..... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, there is only one way to define an "Exploit": something that gives a player an advantage that is unintended and unwanted by the developers.
In this case, the developer is Flayra. It may be an exploit in Half Life, but it isn't in NS because Flayra specifically decided to leave it in as a FEATURE for the aliens. NS is not the same as Half Life.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->(from SoulSkorpion)
But in this case, it's not inconcievable that my opinion disagrees with Flayra's, now, is it?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How pretentious of you. How is it that you feel that your opinion should hold weight over the person WHO CREATED THE GAME. It is HIS vision that matters here, NOT yours. You can consider bunnyhopping an exploit in HL or TFC or HLDM, but it is not in a game where it is left in by choice. I would question TFC and HLDM as well, because Valve has had plenty of chance to remove it, they have just chosen not to. There is a difference between a bug, and an exploit. Please learn it. Bugs can become features if they turn out to be desireable. Just ask Microsoft =P
But in this case, it's not inconcievable that my opinion disagrees with Flayra's, now, is it?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How pretentious of you. How is it that you feel that your opinion should hold weight over the person WHO CREATED THE GAME. It is HIS vision that matters here, NOT yours. You can consider bunnyhopping an exploit in HL or TFC or HLDM, but it is not in a game where it is left in by choice. I would question TFC and HLDM as well, because Valve has had plenty of chance to remove it, they have just chosen not to. There is a difference between a bug, and an exploit. Please learn it. Bugs can become features if they turn out to be desireable. Just ask Microsoft =P <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<s>You idiot.</s> You've missed the point.
Let's quote the whole thing, in context, shall we?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm going to classify bunnyhopping scripts in here, because I personally believe bunnyhopping to be an exploit.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If it was an exploit, then please tell me why they took bunnyhopping out for marines but left it in for aliens? I suppose you can personally believe anything, but most people around here are just going to laugh at you for calling bunnyhopping an exploit.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I said that, in my opinion, bunnyhopping is an exploit. You said "If it was an exploit, then please tell me why they took bunnyhopping out for marines but left it in for aliens?". Those were your words. My response to your question was: "my opinion about bunnyhopping and the devs' opinion about bunnyhopping are not the same. That is not an implausible scenario. It's still a matter of opinion, and the opinion of developers is not proof one way or another." That is why they took out bunnyhopping for one side and not the other: because they do not believe it is an exploit (or bad, or whatever).
Now you explain to me: where the hell did I say my opinion carries more weight than Flayra's, and that he should drop everything to adhere to my will?
...soo what you're saying is there is nothing special about _special AHHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHA
3. If you are being repeatedly slaughtered by Nadagast, Syckness, Me, or any other member of envy for that matter, it has nothing to do with scripts.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nada's uber gorging skills owns me <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Do any of you remember HOW B-Hopping was removed? There is no command you can toggle off to prevent B-Hopping. Marines were prevented from B-Hopping by making it so that whenever a jumping marine touched the ground, he would be dramatically slowed down.
The consensus at the time was that Alien B-Hopping was not removed because forcing all jumping aliens (even non-B-Hoppers) to lose most of their speed when they hit the ground would mess up the combat style of the skulk too much.
The mere fact that Alien B-Hopping was not removed is <i><b>not</b></i> evidence that the developers thought it was acceptable for Aliens. You cannot simply "remove" B-Hopping, it can only be disabled by cumbersome workarounds that the Devs thought would hurt more than help for the Aliens.
Wrong. You have to hold down crouch to bunnyhop as a skulk, because otherwise you have no air accel. If they removed air accel for aliens including when holding down crouch for skulks, no one would be able to bunnyhop. Fact is, it is hard enough as it is to get kills as a skulk, and bunnyhopping just about evens the playing field. I've played on servers where no one could bunnyhop, and it was pathetic. I totally raped as marine. Bunnyhopping is needed for skulks, that is why it is left in. Ever notice that a fade gets no speed from bunnyhopping (crouch or no crouch)? They could of done the same thing for skulks, but they chose not to.
If I missed the point then it was due to your failure to adequetly convey your measage. However, you're still saying the same things, so I don't see how I missed your point. In context or not, "But in this case, it's not inconcievable that my opinion disagrees with Flayra's, now, is it?" sounds like you feel your opinion is more important than Flayra's. Point is, this is not a matter of opinion. Get that through your head. It is a matter of what the DEVS put in the game, and they put bunnyhopping in. Point is, your opinion on bunnyhopping doesn't matter one iota. Point is, you need to wake up and realize that it is part of the game, intentionally, is not an exploit, and that you should just stop crying about it and learn to do it yourself. Nuff said on this. If you can't be convinced of this simple point, you're too irrational to have a meaningful discussion with. Think what you want, but the only person who will give a rat's **** about your opinion is yourself.
Winnar.
Every alien can bhop except Lerk really...
And I'm pretty sure the reason you can't bhop without holding +duck with a skulk is that you 'stick' to the ground which reduces your speed to 100% of normal.
To all you anti-leets out there, chill out on the bhopping, it isn't that bad.
Main problem with continuing this thread: Everyone's opinion on cheats are different. There's no compromise where everyone can be happy, and that's why these arguments start up. It's politics.
But just to make an #%$ of myself and be contradicting, I'll say that scripting isn't an exploit (unless they spent all that time to accidently make those commands) and that Bunnyhopping is (It's a side effect of the physics engine, and shouldn't happen in real life.) Should a creature really be able to move faster by jumping up into the air and going on it's side, where there's more air resistance, then just running forward? I don't see any Cheetas bunny-hopping, afterall. o.o
What I do is just use real life physics as a judge. Scripting is okay to a point, because all we are doing is just trying to make the best use of a keyboard, which isn't really a good way to truely play a FPS game. Should I be able to crouch while jumping in RL? Then that script's okay. Should a creature have to 'select' the weapon before using it? No, just claw the #*^%#@%, so that script's fine. Should I be able to fire ten shots with one trigger pull with a standard issue semi-auto pistol? No, so that script shouldn't be used.
PS: I found it funny that you were sucking up to Flayra in these posts. Not that it's generally a bad idea, but you really did jump to conclusions with SoulSkorpian's remark: He's got a right to disagree with the developer's descision. It doesn't automaticly mean that he belives that Flayra should change opinions just because Soul says so.
Edit: Customized the swear filter. Asterisks are boring.
Isn't that obvious? I mean, like, pre-school logic? I mean, the very definition of an exploit is something that's NOT MEANT TO BE THERE!!! And who decides if it should be there or not? THE DEV!!!! And who's the ultimate dev? FLAYRA!! WOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOW
Therefore, if he says it's an exploit, it's an exploit! And if he says otherwise, it's not an exploit! CASE CLOSED! Common sense prevails, YET AGAIN!
I disagree with Flayra's decision to not remove bunnyhopping from both teams. This is nothing more then a personal opinion I have, and should not be taken seriously, for I am just another person on this earth. Flayra has contributed more then I ever known to Natural Selection, whilst I have just contributed higher pings and my ability to act as a meatshield.
Note: No scarasm intended. I just wanted to back up Soul Skorpian, and throw you offguard, since noone in the history of any forum has ever declared that they were wrong in an argument. That's why they call me Insane.
That's <span style='font-family:Courier'>special</span>, not <span style='font-family:Courier'>_special</span>. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
All I ever notice is when I join a game I get Unknown Command: _special for some reason. I never heard of it till now.
If I missed the point then it was due to your failure to adequetly convey your measage. However, you're still saying the same things, so I don't see how I missed your point. In context or not, "But in this case, it's not inconcievable that my opinion disagrees with Flayra's, now, is it?" sounds like you feel your opinion is more important than Flayra's. Point is, this is not a matter of opinion. Get that through your head. It is a matter of what the DEVS put in the game, and they put bunnyhopping in. Point is, your opinion on bunnyhopping doesn't matter one iota. Point is, you need to wake up and realize that it is part of the game, intentionally, is not an exploit, and that you should just stop crying about it and learn to do it yourself. Nuff said on this. If you can't be convinced of this simple point, you're too irrational to have a meaningful discussion with. Think what you want, but the only person who will give a rat's **** about your opinion is yourself. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
*sigh* You still don't get it. I give up. No point in wasting my energy arguing further.
....
<b>What I do is just use real life physics as a judge.</b> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you're going to do that, you might as well just throw out the whole game.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
I mean, the very definition of an exploit is something that's NOT MEANT TO BE THERE!!!
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, 'the very definition of an exploit' is:
<i>ex·ploit (ksploit, k-sploit)
n.
1. An act or deed, especially a brilliant or heroic one. See Synonyms at feat1.
tr.v. ex·ploit·ed, ex·ploit·ing, ex·ploits (k-sploit, ksploit)
2. To employ to the greatest possible advantage: exploit one's talents.
3. To make use of selfishly or unethically: a country that exploited peasant labor. See Synonyms at manipulate.
To advertise; promote.
</i>
Note how Flayra's name isnt in there, also note that the only definition which even vaguely fits the way you're trying to use the word is completely subjective, and not at all helpful in trying to settle your little dispute. You know why this definition doesn't fit the term you're using? Because the term, in the way you mean it, is imaginary, and has no formal definition. So trying to argue with someone over it, or use a statement such as 'The very definition of an exploit...' is quite silly.
Bunnyhopping for Alien classes could easily be curbed by setting the Air speed cap to a very low value, or simply by setting it to 100%. Since abilities like leap and lerk flight already bypass the air speed cap, this would only really effect BHing, or possibly knockback. I'm quite sure Flay knows this, and so you can interpret the presence of alien hopping as a green flag.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Wrong. You have to hold down crouch to bunnyhop as a skulk, <b>because otherwise you have no air accel.</b>
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
False
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
If they removed air accel for aliens including when holding down crouch for skulks, no one would be able to bunnyhop.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
False
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Ever notice that a fade gets no speed from bunnyhopping (crouch or no crouch)?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
False
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
And I'm pretty sure the reason you can't bhop without holding +duck with a skulk is that you 'stick' to the ground
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bingo
Wrong. You have to hold down crouch to bunnyhop as a skulk, because otherwise you have no air accel. If they removed air accel for aliens including when holding down crouch for skulks, no one would be able to bunnyhop. Fact is, it is hard enough as it is to get kills as a skulk, and bunnyhopping just about evens the playing field. I've played on servers where no one could bunnyhop, and it was pathetic. I totally raped as marine. Bunnyhopping is needed for skulks, that is why it is left in. Ever notice that a fade gets no speed from bunnyhopping (crouch or no crouch)? They could of done the same thing for skulks, but they chose not to. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong, u can bhop as skulk also not holding down crouch... <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
I think u can't bhop right man <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
I bhop with marine (a little), gorge, skulk, fade and Onos
ahahah <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Example, taken from the config.cfg file ^^ :
<!--c1--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->
...random binds and stuff...
bind "MWHEELUP" "slot3"
bind "MWHEELDOWN" "slot1"
... more binds
hud_fastswitch "1"
..more stuff...
<!--c2--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
This will anihilate any leap/bite script.