Take Your D>m>s And Shove It Please
Gay_Parrot_of_Doom
Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8002Members
Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8002Members
Am I the only person who actually jumps for joy if someone puts an sc down on the first hive? I'm sick and tired of people moaning about not having cara or regen, if they actually stopped using their skulk to try and run at marines, and instead thought about the best way to ambush marines (with sc), they might actually achieve something.
Also, mc on first hive is excellent for killing large groups of marines. The outcome of 8 marines vs 2 totally silent skulks is a very hard one to call.
I say we make the term 'OMG SC FFS' a bannable offence, and try and teach people that diversity is a good thing.
/rant over
Also, mc on first hive is excellent for killing large groups of marines. The outcome of 8 marines vs 2 totally silent skulks is a very hard one to call.
I say we make the term 'OMG SC FFS' a bannable offence, and try and teach people that diversity is a good thing.
/rant over
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
I personally don't like dc first because:
carapace is fairly pointless on a skulk in 2.0x, regen is less useless but is noisy and doesn't actaully aid in the killing of marines.
my fav is sc for the obvious reason which is, cloaking as a skulk. It's brilliant, you can ambush a whole group of marines, or sneak into their base and much on an ip or two <b>easily</b>. The thing is whenever i see sc go down first skulk players don't generally make use of this advantage, they just run straight at the marines anyway, disabling the cloak and dying a second or so later, perhaps this is why sc isn't liked so much because alot of players are too impatient/lasy to press the walk button?
also: I tihnk mc is very underrated, just becasue the celerity speed increase got a nerf in 2.01 doesn't mean it isn't very useful still for running and dodging at at marine, likewise silence is particularily use for attacking marines building or attacking your own res towers.
Basically it seems that although all three chambers are now is easily viable for any hive number (1,2 or 3) people still want a set route ala 1.0x (dc>mc>sc) for chamber placement and are unwilling to adapt.
just incase this turns into a 'your favourite chamber route topic' at the moment mine's mc,dc,sc.
Defense gives you the capabilites to make a concerted attack on a marine emplacement, and allows you to kill electrified structures.
Movement chambers are good but you are really only getting half usage if you build them first.
Movement is best with 2 hives or more so you can use the teleport abilities.
Defense is by far the best 1st chamber, regen is now king. As a skulk, I mostly don't bother to upgrade. If I do, I get regen.
Any other lifeform, I get regen too.
in a scrim with very organized and efficient marines, DMS is just about required as UGL|Andrew has said.
sorry?
you're saying having 2-3 extra bullets worth of health helps contain marines better than the ability to skulk (tee hee) about outside of marine spawn while being completely invisible?
So in a scrim where teamwork is actually used you likely could win with sensory first, but in pubs the chances of that occurring are pretty damn slim.
sorry?
you're saying having 2-3 extra bullets worth of health helps contain marines better than the ability to skulk (tee hee) about outside of marine spawn while being completely invisible? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can't "skulk about" while 100% invisible. You can only sit on 1 exact point to be completely invisible. If you move, you are slightly visible.
Useless in a scrim, and everything else (pubs) is just an unrefined version of a scrim.
IMO, take whichever chamber is dropped, and make use of their abilities. They all are very useful (ok, well, one isnt, but thats changing in 2.1...) If you want a chamber so badly, just drop go gorge immediately and drop it yourself.
<b>Edit:</b> By the way, I meant all upgrades are useful (except one), not upgrade chambers. Just to clarify...
But I was basing that on the assumption that no-one on the alien would let-on that they had sens untill thay all attacked the base. It just takes one skulk to go for an easy kill to bring the whole strat down, so it would require <b>teamwork</b>, which is more abundant in scrims than it is in pubs.
But,
by the time they know you have sens and respond (1-2 mins) you'll have a few kills per skulk and 3 or so secure (marines can't really get out) rts. then they build an obs, whoop-de-doo that just means you can't go in their spawn, doesn't stop you hanging around outside, after all a newly built obs only allows one scan? an even if they get mt straight away (going to leave them cash strapped) one of those invisible skulks is bound to have enough res for a second hive, and dcs. while marines becasue they've been contained will be in a very difficult position. that's why i think when it's used right sc is the <b>best</b> first hive chamber in the game, rather than the worst as many think. True it's perhaps not as universally useful as dcs, but can be devalsating.
My opinion is that although DC isn't perhaps the best chamber for skulks, it is by far the best chamber for fades, and tbh it's good fades that win games in 2.01.
Cloaking is useless to me as a Lerk or an Onos. You can argue the usefulness of cloaking for skulks, but you don't need an SC chamber to be stealthy. IMO sensory benefeits Fade the most by far, and you usually don't see Fades till a second hive.
Sure cloaking is powerful when used right, and yes you can win a game with sensory, but overall you benefeit more from DMS. It is a reliable combination, as it always has been.
Be happy that many good people nowadays will understand you dropping SC first. Back and before 1.04, you would get FLAMED TO OBLIVION if you even thought about dropping SC for first hive. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
But,
by the time they know you have sens and respond (1-2 mins) you'll have a few kills per skulk and 3 or so secure (marines can't really get out) rts. then they build an obs, whoop-de-doo that just means you can't go in their spawn, doesn't stop you hanging around outside, after all a newly built obs only allows one scan? an even if they get mt straight away (going to leave them cash strapped) one of those invisible skulks is bound to have enough res for a second hive, and dcs. while marines becasue they've been contained will be in a very difficult position. that's why i think when it's used right sc is the <b>best</b> first hive chamber in the game, rather than the worst as many think. True it's perhaps not as universally useful as dcs, but can be devalsating. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I understand what you are trying to say... but too many things can go wrong with such a risky strategy. If you mess it up (and you will at least 7 out of 10 times IMO), then you are DEAD. Those aren't quite the odds that the other chambers give you.
A game <i>is</i> a competition and people don't want to lose. They aren't lame, its a natural instinct... desire to feel important. To win.
Clearly, if there is a tried and true method, why deviate from it if you feel good when you use it?
Fades are shottie bait in 2.1 - we've all seen it. Sure you can "lie in wait" for a marine as a fade, but you're losing the basic strengths of the fade. Oh and what if they have level 2 armor? G'night fade.
Don't get me started on lerks. They need regen like nobodys business. Hell, even MC would be better for lerks. Sensory, until someone thinks of a super intricate strategy, will be a third slot chamber. I know Flay is working hard to change this, but to do so would change the structure of the game.
Don't get me wrong, sensory dominates NS:C, I get focus first all the time. But NS is pure frag fest. And even in NS:C I don't get cloaking ( if anyone has seen me go on my rampages in NS:C, you'll understand why ). It's just the ability to BE offensive allows defense to always have the one up on sensory, which requires a defensive approach.
While the marines are dealing with the invisible skulks outisde of base, the other aliens can expand and win.
Anyways, we haven't really tested it rigorously, but I think it may be possible.
On scrims and competative play, it is quite difficult to put up an adequate sensory chamber network across the map for it to do much good. Also, lvl3 weaps vs sc skulk takes about 4 hmg bullets....
Also, dc is usually first in scrims because fades/lerks/oni are WORTHLESS without dcs...and quite a few successful alien strats depend on early fade rushes. If sensory is first in a scrim, obs and electrified res will completely own the aliens for about the first 12-15 mins of it, and by that time the rines should have jps and hmgs to own ur hive
I'd like to know why the guys that went onos didn't bother to drop a hive instead then.
Because that is the kind of thinking that made the jetpack rush so goddam boring in 1.04, it works! lets do it <i>every single game</i> until the server admin bans anyone doing it!
Going the traditional route of DC->MC->SC is pretty boring. The benefit of it is that you can be pretty sure that everyone knows how to play it properly.. (except for reswhores and bad rambos).
So the bottom line is.. MC or SC.. both work with skilled teammates.. and hey, isn't NS a teamplay game?