So Cruel!

Haze · November 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">Poor little wolves...</div> <a href='http://www.wolfrivals.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=345' target='_blank'>!!!</a>

They're shooting the wolves for "population control." But its in the spring time, when the wolves have the kids. The kids will either starve to death or get killed. Thats more than population control...its localized genocide!

Vulgar_Menace · November 2003

thats no good.

Haze · November 2003

<a href='http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/372846429?ts=1069616250&sign[partner_userID' target='_blank'>=170541709&sign[memberID]=170541709&sign[partnerID]=1]More info...</a>

Since there are brackets in the URL, it screws up. Go figure. More info though.

Beast · November 2003

[edit haze beat me!]
This is what happens when you put money hungry people into power IMO, you get things like this happening....and Wolves are branded as the "savages"?

MrMojo · November 2003

Yeah, well, they're just wolves. Honestly, have wolves done anything that would cause them to be saved? 100-130 wolves isn't going to kill off a species anyway.

Beast · November 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrMojo @ Nov 23 2003, 08:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Yeah, well, they're just wolves. Honestly, have wolves done anything that would cause them to be saved? 100-130 wolves isn't going to kill off a species anyway.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
[rant]Oh, they are just Wolves, so that means we can brutally torture and kill them? oh yeah! good logic there!!![/rant]

RPG_Jssmfulhud · November 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrMojo @ Nov 23 2003, 09:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Yeah, well, they're just wolves. Honestly, have wolves done anything that would cause them to be saved? 100-130 wolves isn't going to kill off a species anyway.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Actually, they would be pretty safe and sound if it weren't for us...

l3igD · November 2003

Thats like saying lets go kill off 4,000-5,000 humans...it wont hurt the pop.

DarkDude · November 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrMojo @ Nov 23 2003, 02:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Yeah, well, they're just wolves. Honestly, have wolves done anything that would cause them to be saved? 100-130 wolves isn't going to kill off a species anyway.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Ahhh, the ignorance! It burns!!

Wolves are currently (or at least recently) an endangered species. What would killing 100-130 wolves do? It would start a chain reaction once again dropping the population to dangerous levels.

Wolves haven't really done anything to be saved but we owe them that. For hundreds of years we have killed them and labeled them "savages" and "man-killing beasts". They were slaughtered because of that VERY false information (not 1 person in recorded history has ever been attacked by a wolf) and for their skins. Your just human, does that mean other things have the right to kill you?

Moquiao · November 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Beast @ Nov 23 2003, 08:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrMojo @ Nov 23 2003, 08:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Yeah, well, they're just wolves. Honestly, have wolves done anything that would cause them to be saved? 100-130 wolves isn't going to kill off a species anyway. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
[rant]Oh, they are just Wolves, so that means we can brutally torture and kill them? oh yeah! good logic there!!![/rant]  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
so i can come to your house and tell you your whole family has been deemed to die.. just for population control... oh dont worry what have they done? dont worry theres plenty more humans?

Sid · November 2003

MrMojo · November 2003

I've never killed a wolf. My family has never killed a wolf. You can't blame the human race for something a select few have done.

And yes, human life doesn't matter as well. Neither does the wolves life. We think that a certain life matters when we make a connection with it, such as our family and friends. A lot of people die in Israel due to suicide bombings. But do you feel anything for them besides the 'Oh, well, that's a shame"?. Of course not. However, if someone you knew died, it would be different.

Haze · November 2003

Its not the same, Mojo, as the suicide bombings in Israel. This is cruel, and not needed...so is the bombings, but you dont get chased down with a helicopter until your too tired to run, then shot.

DarkDude · November 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrMojo @ Nov 23 2003, 02:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I've never killed a wolf. My family has never killed a wolf. You can't blame the human race for something a select few have done.

</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
No, you can't blame the entire human race for this right now, but a hundred years ago you could. Almost everybody back then living in an area with wolves either killed one, payed someone to kill one, or supported a person who killed wolves.

*Edit* Oh, I forgot to post my favortie ignorant statement of the day.

Thank you Lightning Blue for providing this fabulous statement:

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><Lightning_Blue^> they sorta KILL FARM ANIMALS AND KILL KIDS </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Kill kids? I thought it was a dingo who stole her baby...

I think someone has been reading a little to much of Little Red Riding Hood and has been around rancher propaganda too long.

Also note I'm not calling him ignorant; just his statement was. *Edit*

MrMojo · November 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ha.ze @ Nov 23 2003, 02:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Its not the same, Mojo, as the suicide bombings in Israel. This is cruel, and not needed...so is the bombings, but you dont get chased down with a helicopter until your too tired to run, then shot.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Yes, in the case of the bombings, you just get blown up.

Venmoch · November 2003

<b><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>Please Note Very Very Important Bit Here: This May Or May Not Be My Personal View.</span></b>

Just playing Devils advocate here but since this I have no links with wolves of any sort I don't really care what happens. It doesn't affect me therefore I'll ignore it.

Khaim · November 2003

Regardless of what ties you do(or do not) have, shooting defenseless animals from the air, after they run until their tired anyway, is just, plain, wrong. Seriously if you're going to control the population in an area either move the animals to somewhere else, or at the WORST give them a quick death, GG man. On another note, I think killing wolves ANYWAY is wrong, but I'll get into that some other time.

pieceofsoap · November 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DarkDude @ Nov 23 2003, 02:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Thank you Lightning Blue for providing this fabulous statement:

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><Lightning_Blue^> they sorta KILL FARM ANIMALS AND KILL KIDS </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Gah. Wolves dont need external population control. And what to WE lose in the vicininty of wolves? Not much.

Guys, go read <i>Never Cry Wolf</i> by Farley Mowat. Its an awesome (true) story, about when the Canadian government sent him off to do a study on wolves, in order to justify their extermination. What do they do when there are no large animals to eat? Eat people? No, they eat mice. Really. Read the book.

Cereal_KillR · November 2003

er, I don't know really well anything about wolves, but you have to know that if you leave too many of certain species, they eat out their envirionment and as a result all die. A bit like pigeons, only pigeons never die and always eat.

Gwahir · November 2003

what interests me most about this thread actually concerns the notion of absolute truth. The majority of democratic peoples these days are nearly against all thought of absolute truth as valid in any way. Yet here, there is a lot of reference, spoken or not, about "just plain wrong." Just something I found very interesting.

Aea · November 2003

If you really want to help, donate to the site <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Liku · November 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Venmoch @ Nov 23 2003, 12:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Just playing Devils advocate here but since this I have no links with wolves of any sort I don't really care what happens. It doesn't affect me therefore I'll ignore it.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Same. The wolves are getting kill, and? No one's going to listen to the petition, so they're dead either way.

Sid · November 2003

...I suppose we could look at this the old fashion way:

Would <i><b>YOU</b></i> like to be killed for population control, and haveing your Children starve to death?

Supposedly, all creatures have a soul. lets not look on the outside for just a second - look in the inside: we all have souls.
Is it a good thing to take a life, thus depriving a creature of it's soul?

I see no difference between Wolves or Humans, then.

Dubbilex · November 2003

Saying things like "would you want YOUR children to die?" is a very low blow. While it's true that this is an abysmal travesty, as well as a terribly unjust thing to do, there's absolutely nothing that we can do about it in this modern age <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'>

Folks like to be ignorant about a great many things, saying about how powerless they are. The problem IS that we've been so whipped by the unjustnes of society that we don't even <i>care</i> anymore.

Not THAT'S a shame. Please - at least post what you think is morally right instead of this ill-informed "Oh well. They're dead anyways. "

Liku · November 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sid @ Nov 23 2003, 03:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Would <i><b>YOU</b></i> like to be killed for population control, and haveing your Children starve to death?  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
If it's better for the community, sure.

Smoke_Nova · November 2003

as I said in the Wolf Rival's forum, it's a damn shame that ignorant people still exist.

Let's see how humans enjoy being starved when they are young, because some ignorant person decided to "control" the local population of humans.

Oh yeah, if anyone ever did get attacked by a wolf, it's most likely because they are posing a threat to it or it's young.

uranium_235 · November 2003

It's not so much that 'I hate wolves' that I want them all dead (I don't), but it's the reasons I hear that scare me away.

MedHead · November 2003

This is being done to preserve the moose and caribou that have been hunted by predators (which could include wolves) below the minimum allowance. If we stop the 'massacre' of wolves, we must allow other endangered species to suffer. View both sides before making a decision.

Smoke_Nova · November 2003

MedHead, do remember that those species wouldn't be endangered if it wasn't for humans.

Nature has it's own way of selecting which species dies and lives.

it's called Natural Selection. Survival of the strongest ,death of the weakest.

Kung_Fool · November 2003

It´s always about the profit. Wolves have a good fur that can be sold to some rich ******* who can put it into their living room or stick it on the wall. To make matters worse, those wolves are not hunted down because we need their flesh, but because of the fact that their fur sells for a good price on the market. And now imagine this: A coat made of the fur from about 20 - 30 wolf puppys is sold to some rich arrogant woman SO THAT SHE HAS SOMETHING TO SHOW OFF!!! And it doesn´t only happen once a day, it happens everywhere and anytime.

What enrages me even more is the fact that they try to cover that by talking about "Population control". In all seriousness, who has ever heard about wolves taking over a continent or a country? Nobody I guess. Face it, we don´t kill them because they are a threat or because we need their meat, but because of the money we can get for them.

I can just see it now, me being 70 years old and telling my grandson: "Back then, 50 years ago when wolves weren´t a legend yet..."

Oh the humanity... <img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'>

MrMojo · November 2003

Natural selection isn't survival of the strongest, it's the survival of the most able. Wolves kill other small animals, they're evil ! This isn't a mass genocide, it's the control of population. People aren't being killed off yet simply because we don't realize our life isn't worth anything. Since our population isn't being kept in check, and we need to expand, other species are changed and adapted to fit us. Would you rather kill off a random selection of people?

So Cruel!

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