<!--QuoteBegin--Anderval+Nov 30 2003, 03:53 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Anderval @ Nov 30 2003, 03:53 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Of course lately we've screwed up our own evoloution (read: stopped completely) thanks to our removing the selection pressures which drive evolution - natural-selection. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not really.
We've just set a new path for it. Rather than evolving in answer to bears, tigers and that kind of stuff, we are now evolving to become more fit into "society".
Do you think a person of 10000 years ago could develop the reflexes in their fingers to be able to type? Play video games? Comprehend how to drive a vehicle? They were adapted to have strong muscles, for running, fighting and doing "crude" activities. We have become precise in some movements while clumsier in others. (There are exceptions to the rules, but I'm being general.)
There are two different words to apply here. Adaptation and evolution. Adaptation is taking ones current abilities and making them work well enough for now. Evolution is the response to adaptation. When an adaptation is sufficient to apply to most of our population, we evolve to accommodate it better. Evolution itself is a slow process taking thousands of years, while adaptation can take a generation (as evidenced by the 20th century - look at how we have adapted to technology that didn't exist only so long ago, but our bodies and brains are still the same.) In a couple thousand years, we may have larger cranial capacity, more agile, precise fingers, yet weaker and more reliant on technology to do the "hard" work. We may look very different 10000 years from now, but it'll probably take that long before we notice that we do!
And for those of you who don't believe in Natural Selection... take my signature and apply it to everyone else here. I congratulate you for being able to hold your own perspective. It's that kind of stubborness that made Darwin's theory prevelant. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> It could be argued until the end of time (and I'm strongly on one side myself) but arguing is rather useless IMO.
Edited for clarification. I hope. Edited again becaus I no not grammm... grammmer... grammar? and spellign! I hope.
good points except for the thousands of years bit, actual evoloution requires millions of years to effect due due to the slow effect of directional pressures (where certain pressures drive a specific genotype to be more useful and therefore prevalent over the others. Likewise millions of years are required for the chance mutation that begins this driving process (creates an alternative genotype).
For what you described to happen, Humans would first need to be better able to survive with a larger cranial capacity (this is obviously not the case).
The random mutation that caused the larger cranial capacity (i'm afraid you can't just pick and choose your mutations on current environments) would need to occur, not only this skull bone structure would have to alter, as would the heart + digestive processes (need more energy for that big brain of yours), birth canals would have to be enlarged (unless we're evolving auto-cesairian sections that is) infact most odf the human body would have to be adapted in some manner. Each of which requires a specific random (random as in 1 in 1^15 chance of happening) mutation.
The first person born with this extremely unlikely body/mind would then have to have a direct advantage of having it (i.e. helps them to survive) which it may do, except that, oh. Everyone else without this adaptation has survived also becasue there is no selection pressure on them. So our random mutant is unable to become dominant without his/her previose incarnation (our current selves) being life-threataningly hampered by our own brains/fingers. Which we arn't thanks to civilisation.
Which brings me back to what i said before, that civilisation has infact prevented our own further evoloution because it allows less well adapted genes to survive and thrive along with the better adapted ones and our hypothetical mutant. whereas normal evoloution requires <b>natural-selection</b> to <b>select</b> the 'strongest' genes.
if you believe in evolution you are going to hell... or so says my cult leader!
For real though Natural Selection is just what it sounds like, what nature has chosen to be teh winnar.
<!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> Bad survivability, unless you have a good b hop script. Look at the features on this model: slow, naturally fat/lazy... and he is prone to drop sensories at the worst time... drasticly lowering his lifespan... if FF is on and I find his fat booty.
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> This one is more likely to be the king of the jungle, however he is kind of stupid. This creature has been known to run down long hallways at marines... over and over and over.
<!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'><!--endemo--> this handsome critter will never be able to prove his worth alone due to his lack of attacking punch... that and his borked flying in the latest NS builds.
<!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'><!--endemo--> This is the most adaptive and likely candidate for the advancement of all alien kind, he is fast, he is strong... sadly his hitboxes in 3.0 are is downfall... maybe god (flayra) will return him to his throne of ns greatness.
<!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> also a viable candidate for universal dominance... however with a lame 3rd hive ability, he feels used. And he has issues with being refered to as "res ****" and "lamer" with such a poor self esteem how can one possibly rule the universe.
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> Also a fit ruler of all... sadly he is prone to ramboing off at the worst possible time... especially when I am in the comm chair.
<!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> this brings us to the machines... they will forever rule everything with thier metaly greatness... all hail the turret farm
EpidemicDark Force GorgeJoin Date: 2003-06-29Member: 17781Members
<!--QuoteBegin--Anderval+Nov 30 2003, 06:12 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Anderval @ Nov 30 2003, 06:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> yeah but the bad ones arn't killed off <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> so all mutation/diversities survive weather they are good or bad for the individual, whereas traditional evoloution requires poorer genes to die out with better adapted ones surviving into the next generation. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Bad genes are less likely to reproduce <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
we could be talking delayed genetic diseases, lowered immune respones, colour blindness etc none of which effect chanes of reproducing, but could without civilisation be survival disadvantages.
I personally am hard pressed to think of an inheritable genetic disease condition that drastically cuts your chances of reproduction.
Also: what i was aiming at was variation within phenotypes such as height, build, which would affect your survival outside of civilisation, but don't within, nor do they effect your chances of reproducton.
EpidemicDark Force GorgeJoin Date: 2003-06-29Member: 17781Members
I said less likely, not impossible. Mental diseases, genetic diseases, alcohol abusers. All these things have negative effect when a female is looking for a mate (<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->)
I thought Natural Selection referred to those better-adapted individuals in a species surviving, not one race destroying another, I guess it depends on how broadly you define the term, but since in every game of ns, every creature involved in the situation on the losing team is doomed to die no matter how tough it is, no natural selection actually happens...
Except when F4's happen... how does F4 apply to evolution?
Oh screw it, all hail the mighty turret! <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--esuna+Nov 29 2003, 01:11 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (esuna @ Nov 29 2003, 01:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Quaunaut+Nov 29 2003, 06:45 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Quaunaut @ Nov 29 2003, 06:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Too bad Darwin's theory doesn't make sense. I still wonder to myself, "If we evolved from monkeys, then what are monkeys? Degraded humans or somethin?" <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Monkeys are evolved from ducks. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> And ducks, in turn, are evolved from zebras.
Comments
Not really.
We've just set a new path for it. Rather than evolving in answer to bears, tigers and that kind of stuff, we are now evolving to become more fit into "society".
Do you think a person of 10000 years ago could develop the reflexes in their fingers to be able to type? Play video games? Comprehend how to drive a vehicle? They were adapted to have strong muscles, for running, fighting and doing "crude" activities. We have become precise in some movements while clumsier in others. (There are exceptions to the rules, but I'm being general.)
There are two different words to apply here. Adaptation and evolution. Adaptation is taking ones current abilities and making them work well enough for now. Evolution is the response to adaptation. When an adaptation is sufficient to apply to most of our population, we evolve to accommodate it better. Evolution itself is a slow process taking thousands of years, while adaptation can take a generation (as evidenced by the 20th century - look at how we have adapted to technology that didn't exist only so long ago, but our bodies and brains are still the same.) In a couple thousand years, we may have larger cranial capacity, more agile, precise fingers, yet weaker and more reliant on technology to do the "hard" work. We may look very different 10000 years from now, but it'll probably take that long before we notice that we do!
And for those of you who don't believe in Natural Selection... take my signature and apply it to everyone else here. I congratulate you for being able to hold your own perspective. It's that kind of stubborness that made Darwin's theory prevelant. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> It could be argued until the end of time (and I'm strongly on one side myself) but arguing is rather useless IMO.
Edited for clarification. I hope.
Edited again becaus I no not grammm... grammmer... grammar? and spellign! I hope.
For what you described to happen, Humans would first need to be better able to survive with a larger cranial capacity (this is obviously not the case).
The random mutation that caused the larger cranial capacity (i'm afraid you can't just pick and choose your mutations on current environments) would need to occur, not only this skull bone structure would have to alter, as would the heart + digestive processes (need more energy for that big brain of yours), birth canals would have to be enlarged (unless we're evolving auto-cesairian sections that is) infact most odf the human body would have to be adapted in some manner. Each of which requires a specific random (random as in 1 in 1^15 chance of happening) mutation.
The first person born with this extremely unlikely body/mind would then have to have a direct advantage of having it (i.e. helps them to survive) which it may do, except that, oh. Everyone else without this adaptation has survived also becasue there is no selection pressure on them. So our random mutant is unable to become dominant without his/her previose incarnation (our current selves) being life-threataningly hampered by our own brains/fingers. Which we arn't thanks to civilisation.
Which brings me back to what i said before, that civilisation has infact prevented our own further evoloution because it allows less well adapted genes to survive and thrive along with the better adapted ones and our hypothetical mutant. whereas normal evoloution requires <b>natural-selection</b> to <b>select</b> the 'strongest' genes.
For real though Natural Selection is just what it sounds like, what nature has chosen to be teh winnar.
<!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> Bad survivability, unless you have a good b hop script. Look at the features on this model: slow, naturally fat/lazy... and he is prone to drop sensories at the worst time... drasticly lowering his lifespan... if FF is on and I find his fat booty.
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> This one is more likely to be the king of the jungle, however he is kind of stupid. This creature has been known to run down long hallways at marines... over and over and over.
<!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'><!--endemo--> this handsome critter will never be able to prove his worth alone due to his lack of attacking punch... that and his borked flying in the latest NS builds.
<!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'><!--endemo--> This is the most adaptive and likely candidate for the advancement of all alien kind, he is fast, he is strong... sadly his hitboxes in 3.0 are is downfall... maybe god (flayra) will return him to his throne of ns greatness.
<!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> also a viable candidate for universal dominance... however with a lame 3rd hive ability, he feels used. And he has issues with being refered to as "res ****" and "lamer" with such a poor self esteem how can one possibly rule the universe.
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> Also a fit ruler of all... sadly he is prone to ramboing off at the worst possible time... especially when I am in the comm chair.
<!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> this brings us to the machines... they will forever rule everything with thier metaly greatness... all hail the turret farm
<!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo--> <--- just for good mesure.
I have no idea how this ties into the meaning of Natural Selection... I am just really bored right now...
Bad genes are less likely to reproduce <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
we could be talking delayed genetic diseases, lowered immune respones, colour blindness etc none of which effect chanes of reproducing, but could without civilisation be survival disadvantages.
I personally am hard pressed to think of an inheritable genetic disease condition that drastically cuts your chances of reproduction.
Also: what i was aiming at was variation within phenotypes such as height, build, which would affect your survival outside of civilisation, but don't within, nor do they effect your chances of reproducton.
All these things have negative effect when a female is looking for a mate (<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->)
Except when F4's happen... how does F4 apply to evolution?
Oh screw it, all hail the mighty turret!
<!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo-->
Monkeys are evolved from ducks. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
And ducks, in turn, are evolved from zebras.
thats like saying 'i dont believe in gravity' <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Gravity is a myth, the earth sucks.
thats like saying 'i dont believe in gravity' <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol i was joking. I'm no creationist