<!--QuoteBegin--MonsieurEvil+Jan 2 2004, 02:22 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MonsieurEvil @ Jan 2 2004, 02:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Ryo-Ohki+Jan 2 2004, 08:18 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ryo-Ohki @ Jan 2 2004, 08:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yes, were all a bunch of gun toting hippies that watch to much X-files. That is the most rediculous generalization Ive ever heard. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think all Americans are like that. It's just that I have encountered quite a lot of Americans who believe that their government really is going to screw them over. I've never been able to figure out exactly why anyone thinks this way. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Because they are students of history, and have learned of all the times that they should have been distrustful of their government and its actions. <i>Not</i> being distrustful is the way to get screwed over. A democracy only works as long as representation works - hence why Ryo and I chatted all about the loss of Australian democracy when their UK Governer General took over and basically dissolved a duly-elected parliament in 1975. We reserve the right as American's to remove our government through civil (and failing that, armed) methods, and have done so on several occasions. The last time sometime tried pulling a version of the "Gough Whitlam affair" on us, we responded with the American Revolution.
As for all the arguments that 'American citizens could never fight the modern US Army', that simply shows ignorance of logistics, manpower, the all-volunteer armed forces, the geography of the United States and its urbanization and communications, and a host of other things. The US Army would not stand a chance. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I get all tingly when he talks like that.
:: peers through the scope of his MSG90 (i wish, but you get the picture) out of a high-rise window ::
I think the stats on Urban combat/Entry is something like 60-80% losses. Unless they plan on dropping bombs on all the tall buildings. A hand grenade in a stairwell does wonders. I dont think any kind of organized military would be able to sustain/support those kind of losses, not to mention morale, imagine killing your own people and consistently losing 60% of your forces in the process.
I doubt anyone could rally enough troops for a military take over. So much the armed force's PR revolves around protecting freedom, defending freedom, dying for freedom, etc. You fight for your country, not the guy in charge. That difference, although small, prevents a cult of personality from directing the armed forces.
As for US Populace vs US Government: - Watch Red Dawn. Repleace the soviets with Americans. ' - A Japanese General said something like "You cannot invade America. There will be a rifile behind every Bush." The proliferation of firearms, although it has negative effects, is a keystone of protecting American democracy. The founding fathers agreed: Governments are legitimate only if support by the people. The people have the right to remove their governments via elections, but should that fail, the people are justified in removing the government via force.
So, if in 2004 Bush dissolves elections like he is going to :rolleyes:, I'd join any movement to remove him by force.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Because they are students of history, and have learned of all the times that they should have been distrustful of their government and its actions. Not being distrustful is the way to get screwed over. A democracy only works as long as representation works - hence why Ryo and I chatted all about the loss of Australian democracy when their UK Governer General took over and basically dissolved a duly-elected parliament in 1975. We reserve the right as American's to remove our government through civil (and failing that, armed) methods, and have done so on several occasions. The last time sometime tried pulling a version of the "Gough Whitlam affair" on us, we responded with the American Revolution. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmm, that's a good point. The wierd thing is that today few people comment about the affair, though hard-core Labor voters like myself still harbor a good deal of resentment over the whole event. Even stranger is the fact that we had a public referrendum a few years ago to become a republic and split away from the UK completely and we voted it down! Amazing.
But going on a tangent from that, what puzzles me about the US fear of their government taking over is that the system by it's pure design won't allow it. Looking at the Australian system for example, the flaw is that one man, the Queen's representative (governer general) has nigh dictatorial powers, and no-one can really stop him. Turn to Germany in the 1920's and early 30's and you see why Hitler was able to gain so much power: the office of the President was far too powerful, and the holder could do virtually whatever he or she wanted. In Britian, going back to before the Civil War period, the King held too much power over Parliment, as he had the power to dismiss it as he saw fit and ignore it's laws.
Looking at the American system though, the whole setup is designed to spread power out and prevent any lone man, or indeed branch of government, from holding too much power. By spliting the government into the Executive, Legaslative and Judicial branches, you prevent anyone from acting alone and ensure that any decision must be backed up by multiple other people. Backing all of this up is the Constitution which one would have to fundementally change in order to become an American dictator. And finally, you have a firm sense of patriotism and democratic sentiment that is installed in every US citizen, so that the eventual holder of any political office in the US does not have the inclination to tear down the very system he represents.
That's why I can't understand why some Americans are so untrusting. It's just because I can't for the life of me figure out how one would turn the American system into a dictatorship.
It isn't about society becoming a dictatorship, it is about society sucking. The majority of government isn't looking out for you. They are looking out for votes. Give hefty bonuses to buisness, you secure campaign money to advertise enough to win. If you support 'worker-friendly' pork for unions, you secure the huge vote block of union workers. There are plenty of special interest groups that the government is trying to sway. Government is a parasite, albeit a neccesary parasite, on the people. Every politican knows that their job is dependent on getting elected. Job security, not good government, is the motivation of incumbents.
The only real independent branch of government are Judges, and that doesn't work out that great either. Despite the vote outrage at the shenanigans the 9th circut is pulling (No pledge, Boy Scouts are a 'religious organization', other crap), they still live in their little liberal court paradise.
<!--QuoteBegin--Jammer+Jan 2 2004, 07:23 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jammer @ Jan 2 2004, 07:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So, if in 2004 Bush dissolves elections like he is going to :rolleyes:, I'd join any movement to remove him by force. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> So maybe that John Titor idiot was right, civil war in 2005. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I'm not suprised at all, the US government has been stamping everything linked to terrorism, as long as we're still vigilant, nothing nearly as bad as 9/11 will happen again.
<!--QuoteBegin--PanzerOx+Jan 3 2004, 05:43 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (PanzerOx @ Jan 3 2004, 05:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Jammer+Jan 2 2004, 07:23 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jammer @ Jan 2 2004, 07:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So, if in 2004 Bush dissolves elections like he is going to :rolleyes:, I'd join any movement to remove him by force. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> So maybe that John Titor idiot was right, civil war in 2005. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I'm not suprised at all, the US government has been stamping everything linked to terrorism, as long as we're still vigilant, nothing nearly as bad as 9/11 will happen again. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> sorry to drag this off topic... ((its not really worth starting a new topic for me to **** this point))
that only works if you start from the idea that terrorists are madmen and arent attacking for reasons other than insanity or bloodlust. while i dont want to 'stick up for terrorists', I think people should acknowledge that terrorism is a symptom of a greater problem, and probably cannot be irradicated without looking into its root causes.
<!--QuoteBegin--Bosnian+Jan 2 2004, 01:13 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bosnian @ Jan 2 2004, 01:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You mean they don't tell us when they catch terrorists? <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> In quite a few cases yes... There are three avenues that they take... depending on the situation:
1) Inform the public immediately 2) Delay informing the public 3) Don't inform the public at all
I would imagine the latter two are implemented far more often than the 1st. Aside from the strategic reasons for delaying or not telling at all... Just like the public does not need to know about every US soldier that dies... The public does not need to know about every terrorrist captured or killed.
<!--QuoteBegin--Melatonin+Jan 3 2004, 06:44 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Melatonin @ Jan 3 2004, 06:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> that only works if you start from the idea that terrorists are madmen and arent attacking for reasons other than insanity or bloodlust. while i dont want to 'stick up for terrorists', I think people should acknowledge that terrorism is a symptom of a greater problem, and probably cannot be irradicated without looking into its root causes. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I wasn't trying to say that all terrorists blindly rush into an attack, I'm just saying the US Gov has been really, REALLY, careful lately.
<!--QuoteBegin--Ryo-Ohki+Jan 2 2004, 10:36 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ryo-Ohki @ Jan 2 2004, 10:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> That's why I can't understand why some Americans are so untrusting. It's just because I can't for the life of me figure out how one would turn the American system into a dictatorship. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You make a ton of great points here, Ryo. As for this final one - as long as we remain distrustful, you're right, we have very little to worry about. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Ryo-Ohki+Jan 3 2004, 02:36 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ryo-Ohki @ Jan 3 2004, 02:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Even stranger is the fact that we had a public referrendum a few years ago to become a republic and split away from the UK completely and we voted it down! Amazing. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> There was a very good reason for that Ryo. John Howard. If you ever heard his speech about the new constitution and how he continually mentioned "Mateship", well, you just had to hear it. I swear it was probably the main cause of why nobody wanted a republic, John Bloody Howard.
Somehow a formal constitution that is meant to last for hundreds of years does not sound good with words like "Mateship" Rife throughout the documents. It's like the american founding fathers calling the poorer sections of society "Scumweasels" or whatever they would refer to them as. Slang/Lingo should NEVER go into a document as important and long lasting as a constitution.
Its kinda silly how everyone is so confident against the terrorists The shear fact that everyone constantly talks about it is exactly what they want. Every statement political leaders make on it is another point in their scoreboards. Sigh <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->There was a very good reason for that Ryo. John Howard. If you ever heard his speech about the new constitution and how he continually mentioned "Mateship", well, you just had to hear it. I swear it was probably the main cause of why nobody wanted a republic, John Bloody Howard. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh don't get me started on John bloody Howard. The minute I saw Latham was head of Labor, my vote firmly belonged to Labor. He's pledged to bring the Republic issue up again, which is more than can be said of John "I love the Queen" Howard.
i dont care about terrorists, a majority of them are only attacking americans as the whole world hates them and im not in america so i dont care. if ur in america near a future target you should have seen it coming.
oh yeah the real detterent for terrorists is to say ur sorry, terrorists are people too, that hate you and want to kill you, apologize and things may change.
<!--QuoteBegin--version91x+Jan 4 2004, 02:53 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (version91x @ Jan 4 2004, 02:53 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i dont care about terrorists, a majority of them are only attacking americans as the whole world hates them and im not in america so i dont care. if ur in america near a future target you should have seen it coming.
oh yeah the real detterent for terrorists is to say ur sorry, terrorists are people too, that hate you and want to kill you, apologize and things may change. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> you are one ignorant fool
<!--QuoteBegin--SuperTeflon+Jan 4 2004, 03:33 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SuperTeflon @ Jan 4 2004, 03:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Bosnian+Jan 3 2004, 09:30 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bosnian @ Jan 3 2004, 09:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yeah, I'm sure the terrorists hiding in holes from tomahawk missiles see themselves as winners. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <img src='http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2002/08/13/wirq13.jpeg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
The sad thing is they do. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> and exactly how many acts of terrorism did this man commit?
you know, there was actually no link between iraq and terrorism. They looked 11+ times and still found nothing, so you can be pretty sure of that one.
<!--QuoteBegin--Melatonin+Jan 4 2004, 05:13 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Melatonin @ Jan 4 2004, 05:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--SuperTeflon+Jan 4 2004, 03:33 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SuperTeflon @ Jan 4 2004, 03:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Bosnian+Jan 3 2004, 09:30 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bosnian @ Jan 3 2004, 09:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yeah, I'm sure the terrorists hiding in holes from tomahawk missiles see themselves as winners. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <img src='http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2002/08/13/wirq13.jpeg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
The sad thing is they do. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> and exactly how many acts of terrorism did this man commit?
you know, there was actually no link between iraq and terrorism. They looked 11+ times and still found nothing, so you can be pretty sure of that one. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well they did find mass graves, torture chambers ect.
<!--QuoteBegin--Jammer+Jan 1 2004, 01:32 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jammer @ Jan 1 2004, 01:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Again, this is assuming that that the warnings were legitimate and not political. I think they were legit, although the more the government hypes terrorist attacks, the better Bush looks. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> it's harder and harder to know..
I am surprised how much a functionally democratic country comes to resemble a Communist or fascist dictatorship in its possible use of subtle propaganda. How easily it could slide, that the truth would become that.
Anyhow I think we are too self important over our New Year.
People say :"oh the governemt doesnt know if any attacks are going to come, they just figure its a holiday where many people are unaware". well in a few cases they are right, but in most they ARE wrong. the governemt releases iformation to the media who spread the news throughout america. doing this scares the terrorists. worldwide media to get people alret is a good weapon in stopping terrorism most of the time
Comments
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think all Americans are like that. It's just that I have encountered quite a lot of Americans who believe that their government really is going to screw them over. I've never been able to figure out exactly why anyone thinks this way. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because they are students of history, and have learned of all the times that they should have been distrustful of their government and its actions. <i>Not</i> being distrustful is the way to get screwed over. A democracy only works as long as representation works - hence why Ryo and I chatted all about the loss of Australian democracy when their UK Governer General took over and basically dissolved a duly-elected parliament in 1975. We reserve the right as American's to remove our government through civil (and failing that, armed) methods, and have done so on several occasions. The last time sometime tried pulling a version of the "Gough Whitlam affair" on us, we responded with the American Revolution.
As for all the arguments that 'American citizens could never fight the modern US Army', that simply shows ignorance of logistics, manpower, the all-volunteer armed forces, the geography of the United States and its urbanization and communications, and a host of other things. The US Army would not stand a chance. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I get all tingly when he talks like that.
:: peers through the scope of his MSG90 (i wish, but you get the picture) out of a high-rise window ::
I think the stats on Urban combat/Entry is something like 60-80% losses. Unless they plan on dropping bombs on all the tall buildings. A hand grenade in a stairwell does wonders. I dont think any kind of organized military would be able to sustain/support those kind of losses, not to mention morale, imagine killing your own people and consistently losing 60% of your forces in the process.
As for US Populace vs US Government:
- Watch Red Dawn. Repleace the soviets with Americans. '
- A Japanese General said something like "You cannot invade America. There will be a rifile behind every Bush." The proliferation of firearms, although it has negative effects, is a keystone of protecting American democracy. The founding fathers agreed: Governments are legitimate only if support by the people. The people have the right to remove their governments via elections, but should that fail, the people are justified in removing the government via force.
So, if in 2004 Bush dissolves elections like he is going to :rolleyes:, I'd join any movement to remove him by force.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmm, that's a good point. The wierd thing is that today few people comment about the affair, though hard-core Labor voters like myself still harbor a good deal of resentment over the whole event. Even stranger is the fact that we had a public referrendum a few years ago to become a republic and split away from the UK completely and we voted it down! Amazing.
But going on a tangent from that, what puzzles me about the US fear of their government taking over is that the system by it's pure design won't allow it. Looking at the Australian system for example, the flaw is that one man, the Queen's representative (governer general) has nigh dictatorial powers, and no-one can really stop him. Turn to Germany in the 1920's and early 30's and you see why Hitler was able to gain so much power: the office of the President was far too powerful, and the holder could do virtually whatever he or she wanted. In Britian, going back to before the Civil War period, the King held too much power over Parliment, as he had the power to dismiss it as he saw fit and ignore it's laws.
Looking at the American system though, the whole setup is designed to spread power out and prevent any lone man, or indeed branch of government, from holding too much power. By spliting the government into the Executive, Legaslative and Judicial branches, you prevent anyone from acting alone and ensure that any decision must be backed up by multiple other people. Backing all of this up is the Constitution which one would have to fundementally change in order to become an American dictator. And finally, you have a firm sense of patriotism and democratic sentiment that is installed in every US citizen, so that the eventual holder of any political office in the US does not have the inclination to tear down the very system he represents.
That's why I can't understand why some Americans are so untrusting. It's just because I can't for the life of me figure out how one would turn the American system into a dictatorship.
The only real independent branch of government are Judges, and that doesn't work out that great either. Despite the vote outrage at the shenanigans the 9th circut is pulling (No pledge, Boy Scouts are a 'religious organization', other crap), they still live in their little liberal court paradise.
So maybe that John Titor idiot was right, civil war in 2005. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I'm not suprised at all, the US government has been stamping everything linked to terrorism, as long as we're still vigilant, nothing nearly as bad as 9/11 will happen again.
So maybe that John Titor idiot was right, civil war in 2005. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I'm not suprised at all, the US government has been stamping everything linked to terrorism, as long as we're still vigilant, nothing nearly as bad as 9/11 will happen again. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
sorry to drag this off topic...
((its not really worth starting a new topic for me to **** this point))
that only works if you start from the idea that terrorists are madmen and arent attacking for reasons other than insanity or bloodlust.
while i dont want to 'stick up for terrorists', I think people should acknowledge that terrorism is a symptom of a greater problem, and probably cannot be irradicated without looking into its root causes.
In quite a few cases yes... There are three avenues that they take... depending on the situation:
1) Inform the public immediately
2) Delay informing the public
3) Don't inform the public at all
I would imagine the latter two are implemented far more often than the 1st. Aside from the strategic reasons for delaying or not telling at all... Just like the public does not need to know about every US soldier that dies... The public does not need to know about every terrorrist captured or killed.
while i dont want to 'stick up for terrorists', I think people should acknowledge that terrorism is a symptom of a greater problem, and probably cannot be irradicated without looking into its root causes. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wasn't trying to say that all terrorists blindly rush into an attack, I'm just saying the US Gov has been really, REALLY, careful lately.
You make a ton of great points here, Ryo. As for this final one - as long as we remain distrustful, you're right, we have very little to worry about. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
There was a very good reason for that Ryo. John Howard. If you ever heard his speech about the new constitution and how he continually mentioned "Mateship", well, you just had to hear it. I swear it was probably the main cause of why nobody wanted a republic, John Bloody Howard.
Somehow a formal constitution that is meant to last for hundreds of years does not sound good with words like "Mateship" Rife throughout the documents. It's like the american founding fathers calling the poorer sections of society "Scumweasels" or whatever they would refer to them as. Slang/Lingo should NEVER go into a document as important and long lasting as a constitution.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh don't get me started on John bloody Howard. The minute I saw Latham was head of Labor, my vote firmly belonged to Labor. He's pledged to bring the Republic issue up again, which is more than can be said of John "I love the Queen" Howard.
<img src='http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2002/08/13/wirq13.jpeg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
The sad thing is they do.
oh yeah the real detterent for terrorists is to say ur sorry, terrorists are people too, that hate you and want to kill you, apologize and things may change.
oh yeah the real detterent for terrorists is to say ur sorry, terrorists are people too, that hate you and want to kill you, apologize and things may change. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
you are one ignorant fool
<img src='http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2002/08/13/wirq13.jpeg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
The sad thing is they do. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
and exactly how many acts of terrorism did this man commit?
you know, there was actually no link between iraq and terrorism.
They looked 11+ times and still found nothing, so you can be pretty sure of that one.
<img src='http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2002/08/13/wirq13.jpeg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
The sad thing is they do. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
and exactly how many acts of terrorism did this man commit?
you know, there was actually no link between iraq and terrorism.
They looked 11+ times and still found nothing, so you can be pretty sure of that one. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well they did find mass graves, torture chambers ect.
But that guy just followed orders.
it's harder and harder to know..
I am surprised how much a functionally democratic country comes to resemble a Communist or fascist dictatorship in its possible use of subtle propaganda. How easily it could slide, that the truth would become that.
Anyhow I think we are too self important over our New Year.