Linux Better Than Windows?
Asraniel
Join Date: 2002-06-03 Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
Join Date: 2002-06-03 Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
in Discussions
Im using linux for 3 or 4 months now, and i have to say, i never rebooted my windows. I can play NS or most of the games i want, watch TV, listen music or surf and chat in the internet.
Someone out there that uses linux? Someone had some experiences with it? What do you think?
(please, only respond if you had at least ONE time linux running on your computer...)
If you wana try, <a href='http://www.linuxiso.org/' target='_blank'>http://www.linuxiso.org/</a> i recomend mandrake. Try it, its free and you will see some things you didnt expect(have you ever seen Office installed when you install windows? or thousend applications for free?)
Someone out there that uses linux? Someone had some experiences with it? What do you think?
(please, only respond if you had at least ONE time linux running on your computer...)
If you wana try, <a href='http://www.linuxiso.org/' target='_blank'>http://www.linuxiso.org/</a> i recomend mandrake. Try it, its free and you will see some things you didnt expect(have you ever seen Office installed when you install windows? or thousend applications for free?)
Comments
I'm not what you'd call "computer savvy". Oh sure if my system makes certain noises I know what's wrong and how to fix it, and I can unplug and replug certain items of hardware back in. But when it comes to the incredibly complex world of Linux I fall down. I'm certain that there are people out there who love being able to customise their OS that much, and the guy in my sharehouse who runs our router certainly does (and thanks to him, I'm safe behind a firewall <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> ). It's just not for me.
Not quite sure how you are describing "better" here - more like "same".
Personally, I'm pretty much with to Ryo here. Linux' open source ideology appeals to me on a theoretical level, but seeing that I'm big into SP gaming and somewhat technologically challenged, it's just not an alternative for me. Show me a fast, stable and reliable DirectX emulator and an acceptably easily configurable desktop GUI for Linux, though, and I'll never so much as look back.
The second biggest is emulation issues. Some games/proggies will simply not run in Linux.
If these obstacles could be overcome, then every joe average would want Linux instead of forking out 80 bucks for windows and a further hundred and something or other for Office to make it remotely work functional.
Distribution would be chaotic but could easily be done by Joe average, since linux is open source and is freeware, it'll have it's field day. But only when those darned obstacles are removed.
Death to Micro$haft!
I realise that it's a slightly different story when you're talking about servers, but I'm not sure most people here are qualified to talk about enterprise networking differences between RedHat 9 and Windows 2003 on a 25,000-node network, for example. Although personally, I can make an even stronger case against Linux in that situation. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
and i dont think that KDE(one of many GUI's) is less confortable than the one from windows, my system looks like this:
<a href='http://www.fryx.ch/Asraniel/linux.png' target='_blank'>http://www.fryx.ch/Asraniel/linux.png</a>
Windows is, for better and for worse. It might be proprietary, it might be evil, it might be BSOD plagued, it might be slow, but when you put your new mouse in it, it works. When you stick in your CD for that new game, it works. When you buy your computer, it's there. Might be just because windows is the dominating operating system, so everyone code for windoze first, but that's exactly the point. Windows unites, eliminates combatibility issues, throws incompatible technologies out of the window and makes things work. And that's all your Joe average asks. If those 80 bucks is what it takes for him to buy a computer, he'll happilly pay those rather than see himself unable to use his new 1500-buck computer.
So, linux will begin to dominate the day linux dominates. As long as linux does not dominate, linux will never dominate.
I have customized it up(as far as i personally can) and have tweaked some stuff. If i had to run a linux with a console startup, it would only be hard the first time through. I would write it all down or print it out(if print works) then make sure it works, until i get a final working set of boot instructions for future reference.
Yea i agree with xect. Mitrosoft is able to bs its way(using massive money) through quite a few problems(licensing, distribution, hiring programmers who arent competent, hiring security experts who dont understand threats, the usual). One of windows greatest points is that is so easy that even a caveman could get it right after a few hours. Another thing is, since the majority of people couldnt SEE why windows Me sucks, they just bought it anyway. They also cant see why XP is so bad.
You see, win2k P.E. lets u mess around with lots of things(proly not as much as linux tho) So when you screw it up, there is a 50% that its your own damn fault. Theres also a much higher chance of fixing it.
With XP, its so userfriendly, that if you break it, your most likely screwed.
Just my take on it
But maybe in like 5 years linux will be able to surpass windows. they just need to eliminate the compatability issues then make it easier to use.
Comparing the actual software itself: Linux is still young, and has some problems because of it. Some things just are either not implemented yet (but that's gotten really good in the last couple kernel versions), and other are just inconsistant between distros (making it hard to jump in). No big deal so far. The only thing that Linux really has going against it is no DirectX support: it's made by Microsoft, and I doubt we'll see it ported any time soon. That means you can't run certain things at all, rather than a company using DX just having to keep linux in mind during the development cycle and using some different compiler options. Also, Linux is considerably more challenging to handle some hardware in, because sometimes there aren't any real drivers to use.
Windows has definate disadvantages as well, and it mostly springs from 1) it's a giant, bloated piece of mess that's full of bugs and holes simply because it's so huge and practically unfixable and 2) lots of people use software that comes with windows (IE, outlook), which are also bloated and buggy, but at least this half can be fixed.
But those different compiler options take time. Even if directX was opened, many developers would not be able to earn back their investments in converting their programs or games. No games, no users. No users, no games. Microsoft might be a big, bad, evil company, but microsoft basically made the spread of computers possible. I mean, look at it, there's more than 10 linux distros. When you buy windows, you just buy windows, and you have a working computer. Windows dominates, and because it dominates the world is so much simpler for it. No matter how much you hate it, you have to face the fact that if microsoft hadn't been there, computers would still be nerds-only domain. There has to be someone defining the technology, or people will keep fighting about it. Just look at DVD+R and DVD-R, that case is a mess. Two standards, not compatible and neither works with the others unless someone pays for both technologies in their players. The world would be so much easier with just one, even if that one was the poorer one.
So, linux is good, but to use it you still have to make a conscious choice, and accept that some things won't work. And as long as windows is the "default" option, microsoft will have the best product to sell. It's more expensive, but to the average Joe being unable to use his linux as well is even more expensive because he just wasted 1000$ on a computer that doesn't work to it's full potential.
There are way more than 100. But someone said, the best thing would be if there would be a distro for every user.
Perhaps you dont know what a linux distro realy is. Look, there are distros like Mandrake, Suse etc. You can buy them, there are big companis behind them. Other distros like Debian are completely free, there is no company called Debian. Other Distros like Knoppix are Live CDs, that are Linux versions that you burn on a CD and it will start from it and you dont have to install anything. Others are made to be run from a USB stick or a floppy disc. Some have a GUI some dont. There are even some that just serve as a router or a firewall.
A distro is nothing more than just put together software that has been packed and you dont have to do it yourself. But all distros are compatible between them, just some software changes, but normaly you can get what you miss from another distro from the net. Wich means, its not bad to have so many distros, its realy good.
The point of this tread was that some people hear try linux, im sure you would be surprised what you can do....
Technically there's <a href='http://security.tombom.co.uk/shatter.html' target='_blank'>no contest</a>.
Actually getting things done varies.
Windows supports more x86 hardware. Linux hardware support is good and getting better. Some hardware is better supported under linux than windows, some can't be supported because of unhelpful/deceased manufacturers.
GNU/Linux is easier to install than windows, but most windows users don't install windows.
Decent 3D acceleration unfortunatly requires proprietry drivers which can hit stability <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> (the accelerated nvidia driver are windows drivers with a wrapper around them.) It also means they often don't come installed because of principles (such as the <a href='http://www.debian.org/social_contract.html' target='_blank'>debian social contract</a>).
Lots of high quality software and decent free development tools. Things are scriptable. It lacks the same selection of proprietry games as windows, but there are still some.(<a href='http://icculus.org/lgfaq/' target='_blank'>Linux Gamers' FAQ is a good place to start looking</a>. Doom 3 is expected to be nvidia only afaik.) Lots of emulators and free games. Windows binary support (<a href='http://wine-hq.org' target='_blank'>wine is not an emulator</a>) varies - opengl is supported, but directx is a long way behind. (<a href='http://timedoctor.org/boycott_winex.php' target='_blank'>winex</a> is a proprietry fork of wine which has much better (but still incomplete) gaming support. It translates direct3d to opengl on the fly.)
<a href='http://www.userlinux.com/' target='_blank'>userlinux</a> looks promising as a standard.
Monse: try <a href='http://www.gentoogames.com/' target='_blank'>http://www.gentoogames.com/</a> for your toaster <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
taboofires: Linux is 10
However, I will never willingly use it over Windows (unless windows becomes worse than MacOS 9 or before), for one simple reason: It takes too much damn effort.
1) You make a small mistake, oops. time to recompile the kernel.
2) Tracking down hardware vendors for Linux support blows.
3) Most software won't run, so you either have to look for small 3rd-party programs that are often very buggy, or emulate windows. If I wanted to emulate windows, sorry, but I'd run the real thing instead.
But here's the thing: Linux will only come to the fore if it becomes like windows.
As has been said in this thread, and I totally agree, the average PC user doesn't want to have to recompile their kernel. Heck, they won't even know what that is (I know I don't <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> ). They want a system that does all the hard stuff for them automatically. They want to turn it on and be greated by a simple, easy to use interface that automatically detects their hardware and sets it all up. If Win XP does screw up yeah, it's not easy to fix, but the beauty is that it is so hard to break. I've never managed to do it, and neither have my parents or sister (and trust me, these guys are as computer literate as the aforementioned cavemen). XP is so good at doing everything for you that average Joe Citizen users don't go rumaging around in system settings that could hurt the OS.
Linux is only going to corner the market if it can offer the same things as windows: an easy to use interface, automatic detection and setup of hardware, full support for all their hardware and an OS that does all the work for them. That's what most PC users want, and Windows provides that. If Linux can do it as well then great, there'll be some competition. Until then though, Windows will continue to reign supreme. Note that I have no problem whatsoever with this, I find Windows very easy to use, XP has never gone bad on me and it does everything I want it to do. There's simply no reason for me, or the millions of other PC users, to switch to Linux.
Hopefully clearing out that much hard drive space will be worth my time...
Personally, I think linux is superior to Windows in many respects, but it is by no means the end-all be-all of OSs. Actually, there really isn't an OS in existance (or at least that I have ever heard of) that I think I'd like for a desktop. The main problem is the exreem disorder in the file hierarchy. For instance, in Windows (9x kernel) there is a C:\Windows directory.... what goes in there? System files, Some media files, Some images, some programs, ect. its quite disorganized IMO. Even worse, the Windows graphical component is not separated from the rest of the OS, hell, there are alot of programs that aren't either.
The UNIX systems have a similar problem, they take one program and spread its files out accrossed the filesystem so you need a special tool to manage program installation and uninstallation. <a href='http://rox.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/' target='_blank'>ROX</a> brings the concept of AppDirs (self contained applications) to Linux, which is a step in the right direction, a direction that <a href='http://roxos.sunsite.dk/' target='_blank'>RoxOS</a> continues on.
i had a long post about how i was watching techTV one day and came upon <a href='http://www.techtv.com/screensavers/darktips/story/0,24330,3591332,00.html' target='_blank'>this</a>
basically, a linux live cd (no install, no partition, no bleh)
ironically when i was posting it, windows went:
<!--QuoteBegin--WinXP+--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (WinXP)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->OMG NOES LINUX SI TEH BAD!1!11!1111!1FOUR12<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
and then blew up
basically: i tried it. it was nice, clean, fast, stable. i like. i am a complete linux n00b. but i like. i go look for book now.
Absolutely. But I maintain that GNU/Linux > windows.
<a href='http://www.eros-os.org/' target='_blank'>eros</a> looks very interesting.
Of course, this isn't a perfect world, and marketers (lawyers of the supply and demand world) make the public buy Microsoft products like a herd of cattle. News flash! Microsoft products aren't fast and they sure as hell aren't reliable. Why are they so popular? It is because the public isn't familiar with any other operating systems, so the mass majority of ignorant people buy windows.
Linux and Unix were created by a band of programmers. Each participating his knowledge to make the operating system a better thing. Not only is it free, but it is FASTER than Microsoft. It is the end-all complete opposite of the Microsoft cooperation. I suppose also, being opposites of Microsoft, they are also not very popular.
I will cry when I see the day when the shuttle piloted by NASA to Mars will have a Microsoft Windows computer interface. I will shake my head and say "Those poor **** don't know what they are getting into."
I figure when they install onboard computer systems into cars, "to crash" the car will be synnonymous with "to crash" the onboard operating system.
only problem, it weighs 700MB to <a href='http://www.knoppix.org/' target='_blank'>P.H.L.A.K.</a>'s 400MB
and Knoppix doesn't have a mirror that gives me 150+MB/s
as soon as i put one distro or another on my harddrive, i'll get <a href='http://www.winehq.org/' target='_blank'>WINE</a> running and tell you how steam likes it
If it doesent work, wait a short time, because the next version of winex will support officialy steam. Problem is, winex is not free and you have to buy it, but well... there are always some ways..
and you don't have to pay for it, you have to pay for the prepackaged version. well, that's what it says if you read enough fine print ... i think
first, i'm going to see how it performs if you only get free stuff (books for n00bs/mages not included)
i may toss a few bucks in, just to see if it was worth it
I have seen all these different people posting specific problems with windows architecture. So why dont they all compile them into a HUGE list.
Next, they print off millions of copies of the resulting 50+ page packet, collate, staple. Make 3 versions. Layman's(non programmer, devoid of difficult concepts) corporate(filled with statistics and efficiency numbers, as well as pie and flow charts) and the 1337 programmer package(FULL BLOWN Architecture).
THEN, get a pickup truck,(paint LINUX IS TEH PWNZOR on the side, and MITROSOFT SI TEH DOOMZORD) then drive down the streets of new york and hand out the packets to random people.
With 10 people and a truck, this task could be completed in 9 days and would pwn microsoft. A 30 second ad cant beat a 50+ page packet that u can read and reread and give to a friend or relative.
On to my personal plans, after reading all this stuff, (that link from scum was VERY edu-ma-cational <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> and skulkbaits speel on directory), Ive concluded that mitrosoft is a evil, idiotic organization that is content on stuffing people with a halfassed product. Yes, even as i use win2k ((no linux for me till they make ALL games playable, since i am a game conisieur(i think,) and couldnt stand to be without, and since im too afraid to set up a linux dual boot for fear my windows would like, blow up AND because my 6 gig + 36.6(MITROSOFT AND MAXTOR SAID IT WAS A F****** 40 I WANT MY 4 GIGS U THIEFING PHRAKERS) are FULLLLLLL)_) to write this post, i still HATE MITROSOFT THOSE LYING ...LYING .... JERKS!!!!!!!
Ive concluded that the best way to destroy mitrosoft and windows is to complete my high school education and go work for mitrosoft and learn the seqwets of windows in order to either fix or bust it (I.E. i wanna peek at the source code!!!!!!)
Thank you all for giving me a fanatical-grade mission in life!!!!!!!!
On a side note windows will cause WWIII.
quote -
Rage in a bottle is like a molotov cocktail
-- MEH