The Rottenburg Cannibal
Confuzor
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2412Awaiting Authorization
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2412Awaiting Authorization
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<div class="IPBDescription">.....</div> <a href='http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3443293.stm' target='_blank'>Manslaughter verdict for Cannibal</a>
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Manslaughter verdict for cannibal
A German court has convicted self-confessed cannibal Armin Meiwes of manslaughter and sentenced him to eight years and six months in prison.
Meiwes, 42, admitted killing and eating Bernd Juergen Brandes after sex and hours of sado-masochism but insisted his victim had volunteered.
It has been Germany's most sensational trial for decades.
The verdict falls well short of the prosecution's demand for a 15-year sentence for sexual murder.
They were two deeply psychologically disturbed people who both wanted something from the other
The defence had sought a verdict of illegal euthanasia, carrying a far shorter sentence of six months to five years, on the grounds that it had been a "killing on request".
But while rejecting the defence's argument, the court also ruled that Meiwes had had no "base motives" for the crime and settled on a manslaughter verdict.
"Both were looking for the ultimate kick," Judge Volker Muetze told a packed courtroom.
"This was an act between two extremely disturbed people who both wanted something from each other."
Meiwes had not, the judge said, committed a murder in the legal sense "but a behaviour which is condemned in our society - namely the killing and butchering of a human being".
"Seen legally, this is manslaughter, killing a person without being a murderer," he added.
Video killing
Dressed in a dark suit and tie, Meiwes sat impassively as the verdict was read out in court.
The BBC's Ray Furlong says the verdict is a good result for Meiwes.
His lawyer described him as a "model prisoner", and said he could be released on good behaviour by 2008.
Prosecutors say they will appeal against the verdict.
The computer technician killed and ate Brandes three years ago, after placing an advert on the internet.
He told the court in Kassel that it was the realisation of a dream he had had since his school days - when he fantasised about consuming classmates.
Despite this, psychologists said he was mentally fit to stand trial.
His victim, also in his 40s, bought a one-way ticket to the defendant's home village and spent an evening with him, before volunteering to be killed.
Memoirs
The defence had argued that the crime was a form of mercy killing but the prosecution said this did not apply because the victim had been mentally disturbed.
Brandes "asked to be stabbed to death," according to Meiwes
A psychiatrist who testified at the trial said Meiwes had a "schizoid personality" but was not mentally ill.
Investigators found he had been in internet contact with more than 200 people who shared his fantasies.
Meiwes has said he plans to write his memoirs in order to persuade other people with similar fantasies to seek help in time.
Meiwes ate the flesh of Brandes over several months, defrosting cuts from his freezer.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
During the trial:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Video horror
The five judges on the panel cleared the public from the court before they viewed three 90-minute videotapes of Mr Brandes' death and dismemberment.
A police officer who has seen the tapes said Mr Meiwes appeared "excited but not sexually aroused" as he cut the body into pieces.
Mr Meiwes said Mr Brandes wanted to be stabbed to death after drinking a bottle of medicine to make him lose consciousness.
The pair had earlier partly eaten Mr Brandes' ****, which Mr Meiwes cut off with, he says, Mr Brandes' consent.
Mr Meiwes said killing Mr Brandes had been "far worse than I had imagined in my fantasies".
He said he recognised that eating him was "a taboo for which I must justify myself before God and the whole world".
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Please tell me those videos are not on the Internet.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Manslaughter verdict for cannibal
A German court has convicted self-confessed cannibal Armin Meiwes of manslaughter and sentenced him to eight years and six months in prison.
Meiwes, 42, admitted killing and eating Bernd Juergen Brandes after sex and hours of sado-masochism but insisted his victim had volunteered.
It has been Germany's most sensational trial for decades.
The verdict falls well short of the prosecution's demand for a 15-year sentence for sexual murder.
They were two deeply psychologically disturbed people who both wanted something from the other
The defence had sought a verdict of illegal euthanasia, carrying a far shorter sentence of six months to five years, on the grounds that it had been a "killing on request".
But while rejecting the defence's argument, the court also ruled that Meiwes had had no "base motives" for the crime and settled on a manslaughter verdict.
"Both were looking for the ultimate kick," Judge Volker Muetze told a packed courtroom.
"This was an act between two extremely disturbed people who both wanted something from each other."
Meiwes had not, the judge said, committed a murder in the legal sense "but a behaviour which is condemned in our society - namely the killing and butchering of a human being".
"Seen legally, this is manslaughter, killing a person without being a murderer," he added.
Video killing
Dressed in a dark suit and tie, Meiwes sat impassively as the verdict was read out in court.
The BBC's Ray Furlong says the verdict is a good result for Meiwes.
His lawyer described him as a "model prisoner", and said he could be released on good behaviour by 2008.
Prosecutors say they will appeal against the verdict.
The computer technician killed and ate Brandes three years ago, after placing an advert on the internet.
He told the court in Kassel that it was the realisation of a dream he had had since his school days - when he fantasised about consuming classmates.
Despite this, psychologists said he was mentally fit to stand trial.
His victim, also in his 40s, bought a one-way ticket to the defendant's home village and spent an evening with him, before volunteering to be killed.
Memoirs
The defence had argued that the crime was a form of mercy killing but the prosecution said this did not apply because the victim had been mentally disturbed.
Brandes "asked to be stabbed to death," according to Meiwes
A psychiatrist who testified at the trial said Meiwes had a "schizoid personality" but was not mentally ill.
Investigators found he had been in internet contact with more than 200 people who shared his fantasies.
Meiwes has said he plans to write his memoirs in order to persuade other people with similar fantasies to seek help in time.
Meiwes ate the flesh of Brandes over several months, defrosting cuts from his freezer.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
During the trial:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Video horror
The five judges on the panel cleared the public from the court before they viewed three 90-minute videotapes of Mr Brandes' death and dismemberment.
A police officer who has seen the tapes said Mr Meiwes appeared "excited but not sexually aroused" as he cut the body into pieces.
Mr Meiwes said Mr Brandes wanted to be stabbed to death after drinking a bottle of medicine to make him lose consciousness.
The pair had earlier partly eaten Mr Brandes' ****, which Mr Meiwes cut off with, he says, Mr Brandes' consent.
Mr Meiwes said killing Mr Brandes had been "far worse than I had imagined in my fantasies".
He said he recognised that eating him was "a taboo for which I must justify myself before God and the whole world".
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Please tell me those videos are not on the Internet.
Comments
As for the videos, I highly doubt they will recieve great circulation, even if they are being leaked; they are just beyond even what your average nutjob wants to consume. Numerous of the psychatrists doing studies on the case for the court and who subsequently watched the material sought psychological help themselves afterwards.
oy! holy crap. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
A 'response' can mean anything from "You are joking ... Are you?" to "Sure, you bring the ketchup!!!11!" to 'serious' inquiries.
*screeching tires* STOP....I know you said "don't ask" but please...would you care to elaborate somewhat on your feelings about flesh eating? This is quite disturbing.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Manslaughter verdict for cannibal
A German court has convicted self-confessed cannibal Armin Meiwes of manslaughter and sentenced him to eight years and six months in prison.
Meiwes, 42, admitted killing and eating Bernd Juergen Brandes after sex and hours of sado-masochism but insisted his victim had volunteered.
It has been Germany's most sensational trial for decades.
The verdict falls well short of the prosecution's demand for a 15-year sentence for sexual murder.
They were two deeply psychologically disturbed people who both wanted something from the other
The defence had sought a verdict of illegal euthanasia, carrying a far shorter sentence of six months to five years, on the grounds that it had been a "killing on request".
But while rejecting the defence's argument, the court also ruled that Meiwes had had no "base motives" for the crime and settled on a manslaughter verdict.
"Both were looking for the ultimate kick," Judge Volker Muetze told a packed courtroom.
"This was an act between two extremely disturbed people who both wanted something from each other."
Meiwes had not, the judge said, committed a murder in the legal sense "but a behaviour which is condemned in our society - namely the killing and butchering of a human being".
"Seen legally, this is manslaughter, killing a person without being a murderer," he added.
Video killing
Dressed in a dark suit and tie, Meiwes sat impassively as the verdict was read out in court.
The BBC's Ray Furlong says the verdict is a good result for Meiwes.
His lawyer described him as a "model prisoner", and said he could be released on good behaviour by 2008.
Prosecutors say they will appeal against the verdict.
The computer technician killed and ate Brandes three years ago, after placing an advert on the internet.
He told the court in Kassel that it was the realisation of a dream he had had since his school days - when he fantasised about consuming classmates.
Despite this, psychologists said he was mentally fit to stand trial.
His victim, also in his 40s, bought a one-way ticket to the defendant's home village and spent an evening with him, before volunteering to be killed.
Memoirs
The defence had argued that the crime was a form of mercy killing but the prosecution said this did not apply because the victim had been mentally disturbed.
Brandes "asked to be stabbed to death," according to Meiwes
A psychiatrist who testified at the trial said Meiwes had a "schizoid personality" but was not mentally ill.
Investigators found he had been in internet contact with more than 200 people who shared his fantasies.
Meiwes has said he plans to write his memoirs in order to persuade other people with similar fantasies to seek help in time.
Meiwes ate the flesh of Brandes over several months, defrosting cuts from his freezer.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
During the trial:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Video horror
The five judges on the panel cleared the public from the court before they viewed three 90-minute videotapes of Mr Brandes' death and dismemberment.
A police officer who has seen the tapes said Mr Meiwes appeared "excited but not sexually aroused" as he cut the body into pieces.
Mr Meiwes said Mr Brandes wanted to be stabbed to death after drinking a bottle of medicine to make him lose consciousness.
The pair had earlier partly eaten Mr Brandes' ****, which Mr Meiwes cut off with, he says, Mr Brandes' consent.
Mr Meiwes said killing Mr Brandes had been "far worse than I had imagined in my fantasies".
He said he recognised that eating him was "a taboo for which I must justify myself before God and the whole world".
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Please tell me those videos are not on the Internet. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ooooh shi*.
They better not be.
like cannibalism. i guess.
don't know what else needs saying o__o
like cannibalism. i guess.
don't know what else needs saying o__o <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Personally... I don't know... I just don't think that anything wrong (wrong != illegal) happened here... I mean, one guy wanted to get eaten, annother wanted to eat him... sounds like everybody got what they wanted. The fact that you or I may be disgusted by such activity is irrelevent. Did they need phsycological help? Maybe, but since they weren't hurting anyone (who didn't want to be hurt anyway) why does anybody really care?
like cannibalism. i guess.
don't know what else needs saying o__o <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Personally... I don't know... I just don't think that anything wrong (wrong != illegal) happened here... I mean, one guy wanted to get eaten, annother wanted to eat him... sounds like everybody got what they wanted. The fact that you or I may be disgusted by such activity is irrelevent. Did they need phsycological help? Maybe, but since they weren't hurting anyone (who didn't want to be hurt anyway) why does anybody really care? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
*gives standing ovations*
Well, this is what I think, too. But I was afraid of saying it <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo-->
like cannibalism. i guess.
don't know what else needs saying o__o <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Personally... I don't know... I just don't think that anything wrong (wrong != illegal) happened here... I mean, one guy wanted to get eaten, annother wanted to eat him... sounds like everybody got what they wanted. The fact that you or I may be disgusted by such activity is irrelevent. Did they need phsycological help? Maybe, but since they weren't hurting anyone (who didn't want to be hurt anyway) why does anybody really care? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The first thing that came to my mind when posting this was Dr. Kevorkian, and I guess this case does make a bit more of a spectacle since the picture of cannibalism is much more freakish to us than a simple needle shot, (or whatever euthanization method employed by Kevorkian).
The thing that stand out is that I assume most of Kevorkian's patients were consenting due to the pain in their life. The cannibalized guy did it out of his twisted pleasure. Not that this supports anything, but it is easy to see why a person who killed so many more people disgusts us less than this one act.
It's kind of funny that they think good behaviour in this case warrants an early release. He was polite to begin with; he's not a danger to the public unless people ask him to kill them. And once he's released and someone makes this request, he's going to dine again.
Although it was in US, Kevorkian was guilty of <b>2nd degree murder</b>. I'd put my bet that on appeal, the prosecution will upgrade the sentence from manslaughter.
like cannibalism. i guess.
don't know what else needs saying o__o <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Personally... I don't know... I just don't think that anything wrong (wrong != illegal) happened here... I mean, one guy wanted to get eaten, annother wanted to eat him... sounds like everybody got what they wanted. The fact that you or I may be disgusted by such activity is irrelevent. Did they need phsycological help? Maybe, but since they weren't hurting anyone (who didn't want to be hurt anyway) why does anybody really care? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Everyone reading my posts knows that I'm usually so hard on the idea of personal libertiy that it borders on the ridiculous, but this is just past the line. A person wanting to be eaten for sexual pleasure is plainly suffering from a severe mental disorder. Asking him to make a rational decision on such a case is like asking a heroin addict in the advanced stages whether he'd be willing to set himself up for a golden shot, assuming that it'll be the best high of his life; supplying him with such a dose remains nonetheless murder.
I guess this is better fit for Disc. by now.
But let's look at the ethics here. People die every day. On my driver's license, it says that doctors can take everything; flesh, organs bones in the event of my death. Yet even for medical science there are going to be leftovers. I'd personally feel better if all my body went towards helping people, be it through surgery or providing a square meal. It's just going to all rot if you put it in the ground.
Naturally though, one might be hard pressed to fine people willing to eat other people (though in time opinions may change, what seems repulsive for this generation may be commenplace for the next). There are also the medical problems associated with canibalism, such as laughing sickness which was prevelant in highland New Guinea. But if it's properly prepared, and the person contributing it has died from natural causes, why the hell not?
We are not talking about a cultural phenomenon, such as the cannibals of New Guinea, who primarily ate human flesh during their funeral ceremonies, here, we're talking about an isolated incident in a western society, explictely based on one of the few sexual preferences I'd truly be willing to describe as a perversion.
Unless you are trying to make a point regarding the initial case, I'd like to ask you to discuss the general practice in a different thread.
That's about it. It's right to have the man to have his punishment, it's illegal afterall. Morally speaking however, I don't think anything wrong happened. I can't figure any other reasons against cannibalism(where you have ones permission) but religious ones. And I'm not very religious for that matter <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Who knows, in future we could have people who donate their bodies/organs to restaurants for their families to have money and rich snobs can get an exotic treat. And then, no one sees nothing wrong about it.
Edit: Damn, there was two pages! :/
Uh, don't mind me. I'm confused and stuff right now <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Seriously though, it's meat. Better then taking 25 square feet of space and five hundred pounds of rock in a cemetary.
like cannibalism. i guess.
don't know what else needs saying o__o <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Personally... I don't know... I just don't think that anything wrong (wrong != illegal) happened here... I mean, one guy wanted to get eaten, annother wanted to eat him... sounds like everybody got what they wanted. The fact that you or I may be disgusted by such activity is irrelevent. Did they need phsycological help? Maybe, but since they weren't hurting anyone (who didn't want to be hurt anyway) why does anybody really care? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Everyone reading my posts knows that I'm usually so hard on the idea of personal libertiy that it borders on the ridiculous, but this is just past the line. A person wanting to be eaten for sexual pleasure is plainly suffering from a severe mental disorder. Asking him to make a rational decision on such a case is like asking a heroin addict in the advanced stages whether he'd be willing to set himself up for a golden shot, assuming that it'll be the best high of his life; supplying him with such a dose remains nonetheless murder.
I guess this is better fit for Disc. by now. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Some great wise guy said once normality was insanity. And I agree...
All said and done, there are a few states of mind that are percievably and determinably different from the range of mindsets we consider normal or attached to reality. Lots of the so called 'loonies' aren't part of that group, granted, but we're not talking about a mild depression or a tendency of stealing small goods to attract attention; we're talking about completely and utterly different scopes here. These two people are clincally sick. They would've both needed therapy.
If so, then Dr. Kovorkian was a saint compared to this guy.
Let me make this clear to everyone that even suggested that killing/eating isn't wrong...
Killing = bad
Chopping people into edible pieces = very bad
Eating people = VERY VERY VERY bad!
If someone wants to be eaten, they should be shot to prevent the spread of this _insane_ concept. I'm not sure of the specifics, but widespread prion disease would be a major threat.