Ns Community Predicts The Future!
Fade_Dunaway
Join Date: 2003-05-12 Member: 16235Members
Join Date: 2003-05-12 Member: 16235Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Combat prophecies have come true</div> Before I begin, I'd like to say I think NS is a great game, one of the best and most innovative ideas in the genre to come along. Hats off to the team and community for such a well-done game.
Now, to get to the brass tacks.
Many people were concerned at the announcment of combat, that it would sever the community, bring upon loads of "smacktards" and generally degrade NS that already exists (Originally I shared these concerns). Many NS vets responded that this couldn't possibly happen, and that NS classic would remain great. This is only partially true.
NS is still a great game, and 3.0 is amazing, the balance changes and polish have got me hooked like it was the first day all over again. The problem though, I'm playing a lot less NS now. Finding a server not filled to the brim with poor sports, hatemongers and lone rambos is nearly impossible, and avoiding co_ maps is just as hard (figuring since I personally don't enjoy it, I'll just play classic).
The introduction of combat has brought more players to the game, as expected. The problem is, it markets to the lowest-common-denominator of online gamers, the undesirable portion that until now, was an exception rather than a rule among the NS community. I feel like I'm playing CS or WC3 with the level of maturity and sportsmanship displayed since 3.0's public release, not the amazing, groundbreaking game that had cost me a lot fo sleep in the past. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The most painful part is this is irreversable. The plague of smacktards has no cure, and once your game is infested, you can't remove them. More often than not, they invite more of their type to play, further spreading it.
We said this would happen, and it has.
I'm braced for the flames....but what's everyone else's thoughts on this?
Now, to get to the brass tacks.
Many people were concerned at the announcment of combat, that it would sever the community, bring upon loads of "smacktards" and generally degrade NS that already exists (Originally I shared these concerns). Many NS vets responded that this couldn't possibly happen, and that NS classic would remain great. This is only partially true.
NS is still a great game, and 3.0 is amazing, the balance changes and polish have got me hooked like it was the first day all over again. The problem though, I'm playing a lot less NS now. Finding a server not filled to the brim with poor sports, hatemongers and lone rambos is nearly impossible, and avoiding co_ maps is just as hard (figuring since I personally don't enjoy it, I'll just play classic).
The introduction of combat has brought more players to the game, as expected. The problem is, it markets to the lowest-common-denominator of online gamers, the undesirable portion that until now, was an exception rather than a rule among the NS community. I feel like I'm playing CS or WC3 with the level of maturity and sportsmanship displayed since 3.0's public release, not the amazing, groundbreaking game that had cost me a lot fo sleep in the past. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The most painful part is this is irreversable. The plague of smacktards has no cure, and once your game is infested, you can't remove them. More often than not, they invite more of their type to play, further spreading it.
We said this would happen, and it has.
I'm braced for the flames....but what's everyone else's thoughts on this?
Comments
Too many times have I played on servers where people would just eff off in real NS 3.0 maps. That is usually the case, OR the server emptys out really quickly.
I kind of find it disturbing how these people put no effort into a real game rather than a Combat one. If you want to play Combat only then go to a Combat only server.
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo-->
[edit] I also feared the coming of Combat.. I knew I wasn't going to like it. Not so much the game itself.. the "players" it was going to attract.
I love combat because I get excellent training with the high lvl Alien evolutions, I'm 100x better with the skulk and fade because of combat. However, finding a good NS: Classic game is nigh impossible lately <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I say give'em a week. A month tops. Standard ns maps will filter out the crap. This kind of thing always happens at a games launch. Some just might stick around longer for combat this time.
All newbies are always trying to solo. There are just more of rambo's these days.
I don't think that Combat is generally bad idea. It hones skills in dogfighting. I have lost more than one game because my marines didn't know how to shoot (in classic). It is frustrating to send 3 marines to build a RT and loose it to ONE skulk.
But in pubs men aren't made of steel.
So combat really gives a chance to learn how to avoid enemy and how to score a kill. That is a good thing. But as you said, teamwork is decreasing. Because number of young teenagers is rising, that's why classic is shunned.
But I think that eventually people playing combat do want more challenge and best players end up to classic.
I mean feeling is different. When you kill 3-5 enemies in combat, nothing changes. But if you do that in classic - you are a hero! It is quite different feeling. Like defending some structures in classic (as alien or marine) it really makes difference if your kill ratio is above 1:1.
I just love both.
I'm not denying that it can't happen in classic (jp/hmg).. What if classic would the easier mode & combat the "harder" with FriendlyFire on and so on?
infact, i tried to organize an HA -train in combat, it worked until we met mr. onos <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Although both servers include co and ns maps the player requirements are different so server 1 goes to classic only as soon as there are 12 players on and server 2 wont include a classic map until it is full with 16 players.
For server #1 Combat is a good way for us to get a few people playing on the server before it changes to Classic, after all we know a game of classic 3v3 is a waste of time. As soon as there are players on combat takes its leave.
As for the 'muppets' that have been attracted.
Step 1. - Teach them.
Step 2. - Ban those that cant or wont be taught.
and we dont base this on "1337 skillz" but more attitude, you want to play on NTFM co or ns you have to be a good sportsman with the right attitude.
I'm sure you'll find many pub servers doing similar things although some admins seem a little confused with the new mapcycle options :o
(Sarcasm, by the way.)
I don't believe this "omg smactard" attitude will do anything but to alienate the new players in the community. Remember, it may not have been required of people to cooperate like in NS, so the new players may not know HOW to.
I pretended to be a newbie the other day, playing on a server I've never been on before. It was amazing how much help I got when I asked for it. Pats on my back when I got a kill, and detailed explanations on what we're supposed to do. If I really was a new player, I would have been fit to enter the NS community as a good NS player.
Too bad the help was wasted on me because of my personal enjoyment, and not on a real new player.
But keep this in mind: Be nice and help new players, teach them the real way of the Marine/Skulk, so that they may escape the fate as a (n)NSPlayer.
Okay:
Once upon a time, there was a concept in the works called 'NS 1.1'. This was quickly turned into NS 2.0, and it was good.
Sort of.
We all got some juicy tidbits of information, and it was nearing release... when suddenly, strange posts started appearing in the magical land of the NS Forums. Things like 'This is going to be overpowered'. Things like 'You should fix this...'. Strange posts, they came from people that had never even played 2.0! We had all been assured that yes yes, hush, be quiet, NS 2.0 would be nice and perfect.
And then, 2.0 was released, and S&I forums were locked down, telling everyone to play it for a week or two before mentioning balance.
After a week, the forums exploded with posts about balance. And most of them were about balance issues that were brought up before 2.0 was released.
Once upon a time, 3.0 was closed to the 'elite veterans'. And then people made posts, just like 2.0, about balance. Concerns about focus. And our wonderful, charming veterans naturally had to take their time to prove their superiority by telling everyone that they were stupid **** noobs that should SUYF about balance. And then 3.0 went public, and TADAH! All the isses are still valid! Which is exactly why I think closed tests are horrible ideas.
Yep.
But give it time, Combat gets boring..it just does. smacktards will either start getting interested in classic, or leave community, which would both be good things.
Give it time...
1.0 was the first version and so was just kept to the playtesters as it was being devloped from the ground up. 1.01, 1.02 and 1.03 were quite quickly released to fix problems which cropped up due to the larger playerbase. 1.04 was a public beta.
2.0 was tested by PTs and vets and ended up being very balanced, but boring. Last minute changes made it fun but unbalanced.
2.01 was a public beta.
3.0 has been tested by PTs, Vets and consties privately for some time and is now a public beta.
Please get your facts right before posting <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Yes, I am aware of a couple of UK servers that play a lot of Classic NS, but these servers are totally full 96% of the time. And when I did get in to one yesterday, the admin had the nerve to change to a Combat map, despite 16 players on the server. ;P
If I have withdrawal symptons, I might see if I can gather up a bunch of players for a night of total ns_ on our clanserver. But until I start to attempt to climb walls, I'll probably just try and get in to playing Allegiance.
Back to topic...smacktards always exist in games. You cant get rid of them regardless if they're been nurtured by a game mode or not. Unless it is tightly admined you'll still get lamers in ns_.
and....I dont appreciate your sig suddenfear!!!
... and your steam id is ?
Sure i've played against some who've refused to build in ns_ and left the server to go play combat, but i've met equally as many new people who want to learn the game, co-operate and have FUN.
At the end of the day, if you don't like combat or 'smacktards' then just set your steam filter to ns_ <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Now, to get to the brass tacks.
Many people were concerned at the announcment of combat, that it would sever the community, bring upon loads of "smacktards" and generally degrade NS that already exists (Originally I shared these concerns). Many NS vets responded that this couldn't possibly happen, and that NS classic would remain great. This is only partially true.
NS is still a great game, and 3.0 is amazing, the balance changes and polish have got me hooked like it was the first day all over again. The problem though, I'm playing a lot less NS now. Finding a server not filled to the brim with poor sports, hatemongers and lone rambos is nearly impossible, and avoiding co_ maps is just as hard (figuring since I personally don't enjoy it, I'll just play classic).
The introduction of combat has brought more players to the game, as expected. The problem is, it markets to the lowest-common-denominator of online gamers, the undesirable portion that until now, was an exception rather than a rule among the NS community. I feel like I'm playing CS or WC3 with the level of maturity and sportsmanship displayed since 3.0's public release, not the amazing, groundbreaking game that had cost me a lot fo sleep in the past. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The most painful part is this is irreversable. The plague of smacktards has no cure, and once your game is infested, you can't remove them. More often than not, they invite more of their type to play, further spreading it.
We said this would happen, and it has.
I'm braced for the flames....but what's everyone else's thoughts on this? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
*yawns*
Seriously... people are gonna try to learn the game, either help or don't, but please get out of the way.
Your idea of a 'smacktard' means nothing. It is your own definition. Let others play the game how they want to, and try to guide them.
If all else fails, find another server, because that's exactly what I do.
When I figured out that there would be no commander and no buildings I was horrified, because I had the picture of CS with Aliens in mind and with it half the CS community pouring into NS which I didn't want under any circumstances (no offence to all those who actually came to NS from CS and learned the game)
At least I figured that some Servers would go co only and the rest stay NS only.
Then came the actual release and I was proven wrong on all points! - And the world is still turning.
Of course there was a load of newbs (please mind the difference between newbs and n00bs). But I kind of sorted them in three groups:
The total CS nerds: spawn - attack - die - repeat and flame the rest for not killing enough
Those who actually read a bit and therefore think themselves vets already: spawn - hump the armory - hump the armslab for upgrades (I broke down laughing when first saw that) - attack - die.
and sensible newbs: join a server - identify themselves as newbs and ask for help - follow orders and apply what you tell/teach them.
What I did? Well I've dedicated myself to teaching the third group. I told the newb to follow me and showed him/her around. Explain what the buildings are for (and not to use the CC) how to build etc. And if the round went to hell because the two of us didn't contribute a lot to the team-so what? Thats worth it.
As for the first group they get fed up sooner or later or join combat only servers...
And the second group either gets fed up as well or will learn the game one way or the other...
And by now, I would say, the big wave is over. At least I haven't seen any more newbs in the last 3 days than in 2.01... Just the usual smartarses who try to tell the comm what to do and when you ask them to go comm start flaming about.
I've even come to like combat as training for my admitedly more than poor fighting skills.
The only thing that does worry me is that people seem to have problems to snap out of the "get through- shoot one clip at hive - die - repeat" mentality after a combat map and continue like this sometimes on ns_maps (No thats not against new people, I've noticed that with people who have been around in 2.01 as well)
Shiriki
Granted you can get games where it feels like you're the only one who actually seems to be trying to work towards completing the objective, but that used to happen in regular NS aswell. The thing is in co_ it's much less annoying as it doesn't feel like it matters as much.
IMO, combat is sheit when compared to classic.
... and your steam id is ? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
omg <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> i can predict this one
The major problem with combat is that stalemates can occur and games can last as long as Classic maps, if not longer in some extreme cases (181minutes in an Australian server the other day).
Basically, once the stalemate issue is resolved with a time limit, frag limit or WHATEVER. Combat won't seem as bad.
There was a previous post in this thread somewhere that said Combat appeals to the lowest-common-denominator and that people will get sick of this style of NS. Let me remind you of something called 'Counter-Strike' if i'm not mistaken it's still going strong and hasn't had a new patch (1.6 isn't even a proper patch) in a long while. NOTHING of CS has changed, only the weapons. There seems to be quite a few people out there that can stand heavy repitition in their daily lives. Spawn-attack-die-spawn-attack-die.
CS and Combat are pretty much identical only that with Combat it's futuristic.
While i agree Combat is helping new players understand how Natural Selection works and what different types of weapons there are, what buildings are crucial to different teams, what type of units you'll see in the feild etc...in the long run i don't think it promotes team-work and innovation. Combat offers an easy way to learn NS without fearing of dying and loosing a jp/ha kit, where no one cares if u die but too often hives go down because of the ramboing jp'er or the cc goes down due to the charging onos.
Classic promotes team-work and the ability to think of the upcomming situation. A marine in the field requires medpack, ammuntion, to be covered while building, to be with a strike team to take down a hive quickly, to take down fades/onos/pack of skulks, and most importantly to know what's around the corner which the commander can provide for you. Ie: Let me scan the room you're going to enter. You have 2 oc's, 1 gorge, and 1 skulk in there. I suggest you wait for backup, or bypass it by taking the right corridor and bypass the door.'
With Combat, you rely on yourself. That's it.
Final thoughts: Combat is educational to learning NS quickly and efficiently in a no stress environment. You die, who cares wait to respawn. However, hopefully once people know how NS works they want MORE than a standard Combat game and WANT to play Classic maps and learn about strategy and team-work.
The little transparent icon should bring alot an alot of new comers to be teach!
On a similar note, I know an awful lot of younger players who are perfectly mature and non-smacktardy in games. You can't blame age.
edit:
Also, the growing immaturity of a games community is inevitabe. When the game is young, it'll have a dedicated core of gamers who really care about the game, and then with each successive release as the game increases in popularity you'll get a lot more "casual" gamers coming in. Not that there's anything wrong with your average casual gamer, but unfortunately idiots slip through the net. The only real solution is to find yourself a home on a server with regular players you can trust.