Is Scripting Considered Cheating?
f3rret
Join Date: 2002-05-29 Member: 686Members
Join Date: 2002-05-29 Member: 686Members
Comments
I don't know if I'd say cheating, but we'll try to fix all those problems so leagues don't have to.
I don't know if I'd say cheating, but we'll try to fix all those problems so leagues don't have to. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
<img src='http://ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/positive8.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
To get out almost ALL the points people will make:
1) Some people say that it is there thereforyou can use it to what ever extent you wnat (it isn't a hack)
2) Some people say that NO THAT WASN'T HOW THE GAME WAS SUPOSED TO BE PLAYED!! (generaly saying specificly 'that Flay didn't want the game played that way' how they know exactly what he wanted... <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->)
[edit] Unless of course he manages to be the first post in response <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->[/edit]
3) And then there are the people like me:
Scripting can be used for good or evil. Special has few good uses (this was the simple way to make a BHopp script), where as say binds and such are nice and nifty.
Personaly I don't like anything that is breaking the game mechanics (fast reloading, the flashlight bug for building, there was one that alowed you to leap indefinatly, etc etc)
Again, certain things (HMG reload) were put in the for balance reasons, getting around that is exploiting.
So basicaly my thought is:
If it is an exploit then it is bad, if it aint, then it aint (you can performe most exploits with out a script)
Thanks for the reply dude. And I'm back actually. I left after 1.04, and then I saw that 3.0 was out, and decided to give it a shot.
I definitely approve of the Combat mode. It takes all the good stuff from NS, and rolls it up into a tight, action-packed ball. Give a raise to whoever thought that up. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
As for scripting, I'm going to be one of the ones who doesn't use it, but I'm gonna work on my keyboard layout to make that kinda stuff easier.
While you're looking for those problems, I think the auto-reload is a really good one to fix first. That really bugs me when I see people do that.
On a slightly related note, I must say I find the anti-script stuff that was implemented rather ridiculous. I'm glad the servers I play on don't use it. I rather like being able to take screenshots without the HUD or anything.
as for the quick reload....
how do you do this? I havn't seen/been able to do this actualy....
It's not cheating per se, but it is an unfair advantage over another player without any action required on your part.
Having more skill isn't cheating, but having a script that does something precisely while everyone else has to do it manually can be considered a type of a cheat.
Switching after you start the reload of the HMG doesn't finish the reload, unless there's some sort of exploit, it just stops the reload so you can begin to fire again. So if I have 50/125 in my HMG clip, I reload, and a skulk comes around the corner, I can then switch to pistol and back to HMG and still have 50/125 bullets to kill him. The leap/bite "script" isn't a script, it's lastinv. If people want to script it, go ahead, it's much much more effective (and not hard at all) to do manually with lastinv.
Switching after you start the reload of the HMG doesn't finish the reload, unless there's some sort of exploit, it just stops the reload so you can begin to fire again. So if I have 50/125 in my HMG clip, I reload, and a skulk comes around the corner, I can then switch to pistol and back to HMG and still have 50/125 bullets to kill him. The leap/bite "script" isn't a script, it's lastinv. If people want to script it, go ahead, it's much much more effective (and not hard at all) to do manually with lastinv. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's a delay with my lastinv, for some reason, so I use mouse3-5 to help me switch weapons. It's great.
If im not mistaken this was removed in 3.0.
*edit* should of made myself more clear that i meant the server side check is gone.
Anyway time for my 1 and only quote that i wub so much
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What console commands does the team view as exploits?
NS was meant to be played without the console. Any command or behavior that requires the console or a custom .cfg to operate is considered an exploit and won't be allowed in official competitive play, whenever enforceable.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And yes i know it says offical play.
But it should be guidelines for all servers. IMO
Isn't screenshot bound to F5? If it isn't, or if you want it on a different key, you can bind it without a problem. Simple, single-command binds don't conflict with the anti-scripting stuff at all.
Nothing else will make you a better player.
Use all the scripts you want, they are there to custimize your game, other than that don't worry about getting unfair advantages, they don't exist.
A leap/bite script or blink/slash script is pretty useless if you ask me. Ever try one? Like nadagast said, lastinv > weapon switch scripts.
I believe the weapon-switch delay is still very much there. I can recall about 10 times in beta 2 that I've been killed simply because my opponent was too close and my switch didn't happen in time, causing me to re-leap past him, then bite a wall or something. On laggy servers, it's extremely noticable, so I'd have to go with "It's still server side" for $200, Alex.
Something else I wouldn't mind, though I'm getting just a bite off-topic. Crosshairs, even optional ones, for leap or bite. As switching between them is extremely confusing in the heat of battle, trying to remember if you switched to bite after you lept to that high ledge, or just not knowing if you hit that lastinv button hard enough to register.
I do remember their being a way to get crosshairs for one or the other, if anyone knows I'd sure appreciate the information. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
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but try telling Lego that :X.
"It's not pirating because anyone can copy a CD"
"It's not murder because anyone can shoot a gun"
OK, so cheating isn't anything like murder, but the concept remains.
"It's not pirating because anyone can copy a CD"
"It's not murder because anyone can shoot a gun"
OK, so cheating isn't anything like murder, but the concept remains. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not really, you technically use scripts when binding a key to a command. IE: bind mouse1 +attack
I can only do the same as Forlorn....
Anyway I do NOT have any big beef with any scripts....heck doing things manually is better because....your not letting some machine do (most of) the work for you are you?
Now if you're asking how in such a way it can be exploited....I can't help there. It is technically out of my reach.
Besides, now with mp_blockscripts(?) it works against players who use abusive scripts (_special exploit for example)
"It's not pirating because anyone can copy a CD"
"It's not murder because anyone can shoot a gun"
OK, so cheating isn't anything like murder, but the concept remains. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
What horrible analogies. Did you fail your SATs?
Everyone can download an aimbot, is this not cheating then?
Precisely. Which does not mean it is accurate to apply a blanket defenition like CWAG did.
"It's not pirating because anyone can copy a CD"
"It's not murder because anyone can shoot a gun"
OK, so cheating isn't anything like murder, but the concept remains. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What horrible analogies. Did you fail your SATs? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
forlorn so bitter :\
varsity pwned j00 cwag.
personally I haven't scripted since 3.0, I've dropped the +3jumps script and can bhop pretty well manually now (still use it during scrims, at least until I get good enough). Blink Slash // Leap Bite scripts are useless pretty much, because not only do you have more control over blink without the script, the script can delay how fast yous witch between weapons. Other scripts, such as the infamous pistol script (super fast pistol shooting) aren't so nice, however. I've tried out a _special pistol script, and it's incredibly faster then what any 1337 pistol tapper can do, and it's much more consistent too. Since special was taken out (me thinks), the best they can do now is mousewheel or +attack;wait etc, but the effect is still the same.
Finally, the trump card of scripting, bhop scripts. Since _special was removed, only the +3jump remains. First of all, let me just state that it doesn't matter whether it's a script or not, it gives the player an advantage in that little timing of jumps is required, and when you learn the hand motions required for bhop, you can bhop as well or even faster then any natural bhopper. Is it legit? Probably not, but learning to time bhops is INCREDIBLY tedious. I remember spending hours alone just trying to jump without losing speed. the +3jump helps people learn the hand motions while making jumping easier, it's an important part of learning to bhop. Whether or not it's an exploit is up to you, but server admins can always turn on mp_disablescripts if they don't like it.
"It's not pirating because anyone can copy a CD"
"It's not murder because anyone can shoot a gun"
OK, so cheating isn't anything like murder, but the concept remains. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What horrible analogies. Did you fail your SATs? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
forlorn so bitter :\
varsity pwned j00 cwag.
personally I haven't scripted since 3.0, I've dropped the +3jumps script and can bhop pretty well manually now (still use it during scrims, at least until I get good enough). Blink Slash // Leap Bite scripts are useless pretty much, because not only do you have more control over blink without the script, the script can delay how fast yous witch between weapons. Other scripts, such as the infamous pistol script (super fast pistol shooting) aren't so nice, however. I've tried out a _special pistol script, and it's incredibly faster then what any 1337 pistol tapper can do, and it's much more consistent too. Since special was taken out (me thinks), the best they can do now is mousewheel or +attack;wait etc, but the effect is still the same.
Finally, the trump card of scripting, bhop scripts. Since _special was removed, only the +3jump remains. First of all, let me just state that it doesn't matter whether it's a script or not, it gives the player an advantage in that little timing of jumps is required, and when you learn the hand motions required for bhop, you can bhop as well or even faster then any natural bhopper. Is it legit? Probably not, but learning to time bhops is INCREDIBLY tedious. I remember spending hours alone just trying to jump without losing speed. the +3jump helps people learn the hand motions while making jumping easier, it's an important part of learning to bhop. Whether or not it's an exploit is up to you, but server admins can always turn on mp_disablescripts if they don't like it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bhopping without using a +3jumps script simply puts you at a disadvantage to those who jump with the mousewheel.
The pistol script, while cool, isn't what I'd call particularly useful. Good pistolers will learn to mash their mouse1 button fast enough, not to mention shooting your pistol like that offers less control than manually tapping it (IMO).
Finally, there is no such thing as a bhop script. They are called jump scripts, which allows you to bhop easier. Bhop scripts never existed and never will exist. A bhop script would make you actually bhop, including the motions that are nessesary to build up speed. Since a script that would do this would never be useful, saying bhop scripts are unfair is ludicris. You refer to JUMP SCRIPTS, please don't mix up the word jump with bhop.
And yes, the _special jump script is unfair as it negates any sort of timing and it also allows you to bhop through vents, which is just absurd as it's inhumanly possible to do that without a script. Not to mention it looks funny.
Scripts were built into the HL engine for a reason, and there are hundreds of legit uses for it. There is no logical reason to kill an entire system because of abuse to it. Talk about a sloppy solution.
Cheats are not the same thing as scripting. While scripts can be unfair, scripts were BUILT INTO THE GAME. Cheats, on the other hand, modify the game beyond how it was originally intended, and come from outside sources. A gun, the other crappy analogy varsity used, is not even related to games, and kills people. I have no idea how it even got brought up into this topic.