<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->A gun, the other crappy analogy varsity used, is not even related to games, and kills people. I have no idea how it even got brought up into this topic.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->The point of an analogy is - should be - to transfer a piece of logical reasoning to a different situtation to aid understanding. Not to directly compare two events.
To repeat what I said earlier, cheating/scripting isn't anything like murder/having a gun but the concept remains. In fact I agree with your last post, that stopping something which has good and bad uses (be it CD burning or scripts) is stupid. The problem seems to be I assumed that by talking about CDs and gun ownership I would get the message across.
Cd burning helps - what - a couple of people to make their own mixes, and their own music. It helps tons to put the music they downloaded illegaly on the cd.
Scripts help people customize the game, but they help othes "cheat" in it.
<!--QuoteBegin-MrMojo+Feb 8 2004, 03:38 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrMojo @ Feb 8 2004, 03:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Let's use analogies once again !
Cd burning helps - what - a couple of people to make their own mixes, and their own music. It helps tons to put the music they downloaded illegaly on the cd.
Scripts help people customize the game, but they help othes "cheat" in it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Again, which no one seems to understand, <b>scripts, even the worst of them, are NOT cheating!</b>
Not in NS anyways. The advatages they offer are <b>minimal at best!</b> It is so miniscule, the only people who actually turn to slghtly abusive scripts are the dihards like myself, who look for the smallest leagal advantage in competetive play. However, even then it really doesn't help much to make you able to beat the other side.
So again, scripts are pretty much harmless, at the very worst I'd say it's a tad abusive. Cheating, on the other hand, is EXTREAMLLY harmful, and will kill any sort of gameplay.
<!--QuoteBegin-MrMojo+Feb 8 2004, 08:38 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrMojo @ Feb 8 2004, 08:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Cd burning helps - what - a couple of people to make their own mixes, and their own music. It helps tons to put the music they downloaded illegaly on the cd. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, everyone just about who owns a personal CD player and every DJ and radio presenter does this. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->While scripts can be unfair<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>scripts, even the worst of them, are NOT cheating!</b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Whoops, here's something a little more potent. Please define cheating.
<!--QuoteBegin-Varsity+Feb 8 2004, 03:49 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Varsity @ Feb 8 2004, 03:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->While scripts can be unfair<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>scripts, even the worst of them, are NOT cheating!</b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Whoops, here's something a little more potent. Please define cheating. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Quoted from the other post I guess you did not read:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Cheats, on the other hand, modify the game beyond how it was originally intended, and come from outside sources.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Minstrel_KnightThe truth and nothing but the truth...Join Date: 2002-11-21Member: 9562Banned
<!--QuoteBegin-Varsity+Feb 8 2004, 03:49 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Varsity @ Feb 8 2004, 03:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->While scripts can be unfair<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>scripts, even the worst of them, are NOT cheating!</b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Whoops, here's something a little more potent. Please define cheating. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Having a faster computer or better mouse than someone else is unfair, however it is not cheating.
So there is a difference in gaining an unfair advantage over others by (ab)using the game's built-in features, and (ab)using an external program's features?
Minstrel_KnightThe truth and nothing but the truth...Join Date: 2002-11-21Member: 9562Banned
edited February 2004
<!--QuoteBegin-Varsity+Feb 8 2004, 04:13 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Varsity @ Feb 8 2004, 04:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So there is a difference in gaining an unfair advantage over others by (ab)using the game's built-in features, and (ab)using an external program's features? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Obviously. Bunnyhopping is abusing the game engine, but it is not classified as cheating whereas wallhacking is abusing the game with external programs and is classified as cheating.
<!--QuoteBegin-Minstrel Knight+Feb 8 2004, 09:12 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Minstrel Knight @ Feb 8 2004, 09:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Having a faster computer or better mouse than someone else is unfair, however it is not cheating. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Let's just make it clear that when I say scripts can be cheats, I do NOT mean ones that have nothing to do with skill. It takes skill to time leap/bite and stomp/devour, it does not take skill to have a faster computer. If your computer isn't fast enough to play NS at a decent framerate, you are going to have to accept the handicap.
<!--QuoteBegin-Minstrel Knight+Feb 8 2004, 04:17 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Minstrel Knight @ Feb 8 2004, 04:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Varsity+Feb 8 2004, 04:13 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Varsity @ Feb 8 2004, 04:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So there is a difference in gaining an unfair advantage over others by (ab)using the game's built-in features, and (ab)using an external program's features? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Obviously. Bunnyhopping is abusing the game engine, but it is not classified as cheating whereas wallhacking is abusing the game with external programs and is classified as cheating. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Who says its not cheating? I mean if you go by CAL rules (which I think a lot of people do) its cheating.
<!--QuoteBegin-Minstrel Knight+Feb 8 2004, 09:17 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Minstrel Knight @ Feb 8 2004, 09:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Obviously. Bunnyhopping is abusing the game engine, but it is not classified as cheating whereas wallhacking is abusing the game with external programs and is classified as cheating. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> OK, let's redefine 'cheats' as exploits. Obviously there is confusion between cheats as provided by hackers, and cheats as ways of gaining an unfair advantage and/or exploiting maps/physics.
Bunnyhopping, as we have seen, can be coded into a script. Bunnyhopping exploits the engine to give players and unfair advantage. Bunnyhopping takes skill. Scripts remove the need for that skill. Scripts in that instance give an unfair advantage.
Minstrel_KnightThe truth and nothing but the truth...Join Date: 2002-11-21Member: 9562Banned
<!--QuoteBegin-MrDDT+Feb 8 2004, 04:18 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrDDT @ Feb 8 2004, 04:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Who says its not cheating? I mean if you go by CAL rules (which I think a lot of people do) its cheating. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> CAL hasn't banned scripts last I checked.
<!--QuoteBegin-Minstrel Knight+Feb 8 2004, 04:23 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Minstrel Knight @ Feb 8 2004, 04:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-MrDDT+Feb 8 2004, 04:18 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrDDT @ Feb 8 2004, 04:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Who says its not cheating? I mean if you go by CAL rules (which I think a lot of people do) its cheating. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> CAL hasn't banned scripts last I checked. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I wasnt talking about scripts I was talking about bhopping.
"3.110c Strafe Jumping: Strafe Jumping is illegal. Any player caught strafe jumping will be suspended for one week. If there are multiple infractions in one match by the same team that team will forfeit not only that match but the infracting players will be suspended an additional 1-2 weeks."
I am beginning to wonder if this is not all a matter of pure opinion. Either you find letting the game perform a series of commands for you an exploit or not.
Minstrel_KnightThe truth and nothing but the truth...Join Date: 2002-11-21Member: 9562Banned
<!--QuoteBegin-MrDDT+Feb 8 2004, 04:27 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrDDT @ Feb 8 2004, 04:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Minstrel Knight+Feb 8 2004, 04:23 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Minstrel Knight @ Feb 8 2004, 04:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-MrDDT+Feb 8 2004, 04:18 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrDDT @ Feb 8 2004, 04:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Who says its not cheating? I mean if you go by CAL rules (which I think a lot of people do) its cheating. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> CAL hasn't banned scripts last I checked. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I wasnt talking about scripts I was talking about bhopping.
"3.110c Strafe Jumping: Strafe Jumping is illegal. Any player caught strafe jumping will be suspended for one week. If there are multiple infractions in one match by the same team that team will forfeit not only that match but the infracting players will be suspended an additional 1-2 weeks."
Sorry, I was just talking about bhopping in gen for other games like CS, how its not allowed. I didnt look at the NS rules because I didnt figure they would be very good because NS is still in beta and changes so much.
But my point was that they dont mind scripts but its exploits that cal minds.
Minstrel_KnightThe truth and nothing but the truth...Join Date: 2002-11-21Member: 9562Banned
<!--QuoteBegin-MrDDT+Feb 8 2004, 04:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrDDT @ Feb 8 2004, 04:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Sorry, I was just talking about bhopping in gen for other games like CS, how its not allowed. I didnt look at the NS rules because I didnt figure they would be very good because NS is still in beta and changes so much.
But my point was that they dont mind scripts but its exploits that cal minds. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> And CAL takes the community standards to judge what is an exploit or not, so in TFC and NS bunny hopping is classified as legal because the league players want it to be whereas in Counter-Strike it is not.
<!--QuoteBegin-Varsity+Feb 7 2004, 09:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Varsity @ Feb 7 2004, 09:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You also legitimately copy CDs to make backups and lawfully use guns at firing ranges. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Untill you make an example of something in a video game I won't be impressed. You use scripts anyway, assuming you play NS that is. Binds exucute small scripts, to quicken command strings, +attack is part of a script for example.
<!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Feb 8 2004, 09:44 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Feb 8 2004, 09:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Untill you make an example of something in a video game I won't be impressed. You use scripts anyway, assuming you play NS that is. Binds exucute small scripts, to quicken command strings, +attack is part of a script for example. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> My point was and is that while not all scripts are exploits, some are. To repeat myself, it takes skill to time leap/bite and stomp/devour and scripts take this away. Thus, an unfair advantage.
Leap/bite scripts... I don't see how it offers any advantages. You could do the same EASILY without scripts. LEAP, PRESS Q, BITE! Same with blink/slash and stomp/devour(i've never even heard of that)
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Feb 7 2004, 10:00 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Feb 7 2004, 10:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Last.+Feb 7 2004, 11:50 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Last. @ Feb 7 2004, 11:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Feb 7 2004, 08:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Feb 7 2004, 08:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Varsity+Feb 7 2004, 09:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Varsity @ Feb 7 2004, 09:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Feb 8 2004, 01:37 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Feb 8 2004, 01:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Its not cheating because anyone can script but I do find it to be a bit unfair <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> "It's not pirating because anyone can copy a CD" "It's not murder because anyone can shoot a gun"
OK, so cheating isn't anything like murder, but the concept remains. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> What horrible analogies. Did you fail your SATs? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> forlorn so bitter :\
varsity pwned j00 cwag.
personally I haven't scripted since 3.0, I've dropped the +3jumps script and can bhop pretty well manually now (still use it during scrims, at least until I get good enough). Blink Slash // Leap Bite scripts are useless pretty much, because not only do you have more control over blink without the script, the script can delay how fast yous witch between weapons. Other scripts, such as the infamous pistol script (super fast pistol shooting) aren't so nice, however. I've tried out a _special pistol script, and it's incredibly faster then what any 1337 pistol tapper can do, and it's much more consistent too. Since special was taken out (me thinks), the best they can do now is mousewheel or +attack;wait etc, but the effect is still the same.
Finally, the trump card of scripting, bhop scripts. Since _special was removed, only the +3jump remains. First of all, let me just state that it doesn't matter whether it's a script or not, it gives the player an advantage in that little timing of jumps is required, and when you learn the hand motions required for bhop, you can bhop as well or even faster then any natural bhopper. Is it legit? Probably not, but learning to time bhops is INCREDIBLY tedious. I remember spending hours alone just trying to jump without losing speed. the +3jump helps people learn the hand motions while making jumping easier, it's an important part of learning to bhop. Whether or not it's an exploit is up to you, but server admins can always turn on mp_disablescripts if they don't like it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Bhopping without using a +3jumps script simply puts you at a disadvantage to those who jump with the mousewheel.
The pistol script, while cool, isn't what I'd call particularly useful. Good pistolers will learn to mash their mouse1 button fast enough, not to mention shooting your pistol like that offers less control than manually tapping it (IMO).
Finally, there is no such thing as a bhop script. They are called jump scripts, which allows you to bhop easier. Bhop scripts never existed and never will exist. A bhop script would make you actually bhop, including the motions that are nessesary to build up speed. Since a script that would do this would never be useful, saying bhop scripts are unfair is ludicris. You refer to JUMP SCRIPTS, please don't mix up the word jump with bhop.
And yes, the _special jump script is unfair as it negates any sort of timing and it also allows you to bhop through vents, which is just absurd as it's inhumanly possible to do that without a script. Not to mention it looks funny.
Scripts were built into the HL engine for a reason, and there are hundreds of legit uses for it. There is no logical reason to kill an entire system because of abuse to it. Talk about a sloppy solution.
Cheats are not the same thing as scripting. While scripts can be unfair, scripts were BUILT INTO THE GAME. Cheats, on the other hand, modify the game beyond how it was originally intended, and come from outside sources. A gun, the other crappy analogy varsity used, is not even related to games, and kills people. I have no idea how it even got brought up into this topic. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <3.
p.s. i made this really long quote in this really stupid thread! <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Comments
To repeat what I said earlier, cheating/scripting isn't anything like murder/having a gun but the concept remains. In fact I agree with your last post, that stopping something which has good and bad uses (be it CD burning or scripts) is stupid. The problem seems to be I assumed that by talking about CDs and gun ownership I would get the message across.
Lesson for today: hints don't work. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Cd burning helps - what - a couple of people to make their own mixes, and their own music. It helps tons to put the music they downloaded illegaly on the cd.
Scripts help people customize the game, but they help othes "cheat" in it.
Cd burning helps - what - a couple of people to make their own mixes, and their own music. It helps tons to put the music they downloaded illegaly on the cd.
Scripts help people customize the game, but they help othes "cheat" in it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again, which no one seems to understand, <b>scripts, even the worst of them, are NOT cheating!</b>
Not in NS anyways. The advatages they offer are <b>minimal at best!</b> It is so miniscule, the only people who actually turn to slghtly abusive scripts are the dihards like myself, who look for the smallest leagal advantage in competetive play. However, even then it really doesn't help much to make you able to beat the other side.
So again, scripts are pretty much harmless, at the very worst I'd say it's a tad abusive. Cheating, on the other hand, is EXTREAMLLY harmful, and will kill any sort of gameplay.
Actually, everyone just about who owns a personal CD player and every DJ and radio presenter does this. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>scripts, even the worst of them, are NOT cheating!</b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Whoops, here's something a little more potent. Please define cheating.
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>scripts, even the worst of them, are NOT cheating!</b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Whoops, here's something a little more potent. Please define cheating. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Quoted from the other post I guess you did not read:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Cheats, on the other hand, modify the game beyond how it was originally intended, and come from outside sources.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>scripts, even the worst of them, are NOT cheating!</b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Whoops, here's something a little more potent. Please define cheating. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Having a faster computer or better mouse than someone else is unfair, however it is not cheating.
Obviously. Bunnyhopping is abusing the game engine, but it is not classified as cheating whereas wallhacking is abusing the game with external programs and is classified as cheating.
Let's just make it clear that when I say scripts can be cheats, I do NOT mean ones that have nothing to do with skill. It takes skill to time leap/bite and stomp/devour, it does not take skill to have a faster computer. If your computer isn't fast enough to play NS at a decent framerate, you are going to have to accept the handicap.
Obviously. Bunnyhopping is abusing the game engine, but it is not classified as cheating whereas wallhacking is abusing the game with external programs and is classified as cheating. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Who says its not cheating? I mean if you go by CAL rules (which I think a lot of people do) its cheating.
OK, let's redefine 'cheats' as exploits. Obviously there is confusion between cheats as provided by hackers, and cheats as ways of gaining an unfair advantage and/or exploiting maps/physics.
Bunnyhopping, as we have seen, can be coded into a script. Bunnyhopping exploits the engine to give players and unfair advantage. Bunnyhopping takes skill. Scripts remove the need for that skill. Scripts in that instance give an unfair advantage.
Who says its not cheating? I mean if you go by CAL rules (which I think a lot of people do) its cheating. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
CAL hasn't banned scripts last I checked.
Who says its not cheating? I mean if you go by CAL rules (which I think a lot of people do) its cheating. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
CAL hasn't banned scripts last I checked. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wasnt talking about scripts I was talking about bhopping.
"3.110c Strafe Jumping: Strafe Jumping is illegal. Any player caught strafe jumping will be suspended for one week. If there are multiple infractions in one match by the same team that team will forfeit not only that match but the infracting players will be suspended an additional 1-2 weeks."
<a href='http://www.caleague.com/?page=rules&div=cso#3.110c' target='_blank'>http://www.caleague.com/?page=rules&div=cso#3.110c</a>
Read it for yourself.
Who says its not cheating? I mean if you go by CAL rules (which I think a lot of people do) its cheating. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
CAL hasn't banned scripts last I checked. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wasnt talking about scripts I was talking about bhopping.
"3.110c Strafe Jumping: Strafe Jumping is illegal. Any player caught strafe jumping will be suspended for one week. If there are multiple infractions in one match by the same team that team will forfeit not only that match but the infracting players will be suspended an additional 1-2 weeks."
<a href='http://www.caleague.com/?page=rules&div=cso#3.110c' target='_blank'>http://www.caleague.com/?page=rules&div=cso#3.110c</a>
Read it for yourself. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Cyberathlete Amateur League Counter-Strike
Main League Rules
But my point was that they dont mind scripts but its exploits that cal minds.
But my point was that they dont mind scripts but its exploits that cal minds. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
And CAL takes the community standards to judge what is an exploit or not, so in TFC and NS bunny hopping is classified as legal because the league players want it to be whereas in Counter-Strike it is not.
Untill you make an example of something in a video game I won't be impressed. You use scripts anyway, assuming you play NS that is. Binds exucute small scripts, to quicken command strings, +attack is part of a script for example.
My point was and is that while not all scripts are exploits, some are. To repeat myself, it takes skill to time leap/bite and stomp/devour and scripts take this away. Thus, an unfair advantage.
"It's not pirating because anyone can copy a CD"
"It's not murder because anyone can shoot a gun"
OK, so cheating isn't anything like murder, but the concept remains. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What horrible analogies. Did you fail your SATs? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
forlorn so bitter :\
varsity pwned j00 cwag.
personally I haven't scripted since 3.0, I've dropped the +3jumps script and can bhop pretty well manually now (still use it during scrims, at least until I get good enough). Blink Slash // Leap Bite scripts are useless pretty much, because not only do you have more control over blink without the script, the script can delay how fast yous witch between weapons. Other scripts, such as the infamous pistol script (super fast pistol shooting) aren't so nice, however. I've tried out a _special pistol script, and it's incredibly faster then what any 1337 pistol tapper can do, and it's much more consistent too. Since special was taken out (me thinks), the best they can do now is mousewheel or +attack;wait etc, but the effect is still the same.
Finally, the trump card of scripting, bhop scripts. Since _special was removed, only the +3jump remains. First of all, let me just state that it doesn't matter whether it's a script or not, it gives the player an advantage in that little timing of jumps is required, and when you learn the hand motions required for bhop, you can bhop as well or even faster then any natural bhopper. Is it legit? Probably not, but learning to time bhops is INCREDIBLY tedious. I remember spending hours alone just trying to jump without losing speed. the +3jump helps people learn the hand motions while making jumping easier, it's an important part of learning to bhop. Whether or not it's an exploit is up to you, but server admins can always turn on mp_disablescripts if they don't like it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bhopping without using a +3jumps script simply puts you at a disadvantage to those who jump with the mousewheel.
The pistol script, while cool, isn't what I'd call particularly useful. Good pistolers will learn to mash their mouse1 button fast enough, not to mention shooting your pistol like that offers less control than manually tapping it (IMO).
Finally, there is no such thing as a bhop script. They are called jump scripts, which allows you to bhop easier. Bhop scripts never existed and never will exist. A bhop script would make you actually bhop, including the motions that are nessesary to build up speed. Since a script that would do this would never be useful, saying bhop scripts are unfair is ludicris. You refer to JUMP SCRIPTS, please don't mix up the word jump with bhop.
And yes, the _special jump script is unfair as it negates any sort of timing and it also allows you to bhop through vents, which is just absurd as it's inhumanly possible to do that without a script. Not to mention it looks funny.
Scripts were built into the HL engine for a reason, and there are hundreds of legit uses for it. There is no logical reason to kill an entire system because of abuse to it. Talk about a sloppy solution.
Cheats are not the same thing as scripting. While scripts can be unfair, scripts were BUILT INTO THE GAME. Cheats, on the other hand, modify the game beyond how it was originally intended, and come from outside sources. A gun, the other crappy analogy varsity used, is not even related to games, and kills people. I have no idea how it even got brought up into this topic. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<3.
p.s. i made this really long quote in this really stupid thread! <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo-->