1.04 To 3.0
ElectricSheep
Join Date: 2003-04-21 Member: 15716Members
Join Date: 2003-04-21 Member: 15716Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Improvements that could be</div> Having recently played several games of 1.04 with friends there are a lot of things that were cool or fun that could be implemented in 3.0 without changing it back to 1.04.
1-The uncapped RTs had a thinner, more threadlike mist coming out the top that looked much better.
2-Gorge spit looked better.
3- Laser Mines were insanely fun to use.
4- The old GL was much more deadly do to faster reload rate but still mostly anti structure.
5-The shotgun that fired slowly but had a larger clip.
6- A more lax web maximum limit made it much more useful to defend multiple areas. It is after all, a three hive ability now.
7-The HMG being more accurate and having a 150 clip (I know the game doesn't display more than 250 reserve ammo so it might be hard to do that again), as of now it's like a shotgun, close range only. It can be more powerful at killing aliens, but it would still be weak against structures.
8- Powerful charge. It's a three hive ability for the most powerful unit in the game and right now it's WEAK!
9- Powerful acid rocket. It was more powerful as a two hive ability than it is now as a three hive ability. Right now it's weak. Three hive abilities should be strong that's why marines take hive locations.
10- Aliens using phase gates. Fun but in no way incredibly inbalancing.
11- The welder, having it do more damage than knife made it a little more useful and good to have. The continuous fire is much better than that weird random rate even if it doesn't change gameplay.
12- Leap as a weapon was damn fun. Making it more powerful would make marines focus a bit more on hives which would be fine.
13- Primal Scream was useful in large combat. Right now though it is fine for CO primal scream effects an incredibly small area and lasts for an incredibly short time for a three hive ability.
14- The music was.... better, I can't explain exactly why, more dramatic?
And finally the most important thing of all is the maps. When I played 1.04 again I remembered and saw how incredibly cool the maps are. They were darkas they should be to allow the weak skulk of 1.04 (and now 3.0) to ambush his unsuspecting prey. The maps had all sorts of entitie, which, although they take up server resources makes the map much MUCH more atmospheric and just generally fun to play in. I'd rather have a really good atmospheric map with about 30 to 50 extra ping htan have a brightly lit plan boxy map with only the odd pipe here and there. Doors were never a problem unless the got blocked which could be fixed by making them damage structures (but not players, its incredibly annoying to be an expensive alien or marine and accidently get crushed by your teamate. The elevators were fast enough that you didnt have to wait 30 seconds for it to come up to you and then another 30 seconds to get down. I think it would be really enlightening if the community and the beta testers played 1.04 for about a week or two and saw what they liked about it and what made it so fun, or what made it not fun and sucky.
There is a 1.04 download available here at redphive. Players only need the 1.0 client, servers need the 1.04 patch also listed.<a href='http://redphive.org/?view=redphive_file_display' target='_blank'>http://redphive.org/?view=redphive_file_display</a>
From future post by me:
Though I am hesitant to bumb tice in a row I have something to add to my original topc from 1.04 that was good.
The waypoint system. It was fine and good, but now we don't even have build waypoints. Build waypoints are useful because you know if the WP to a room is a PG or just a WP for the whole squad or if the WP to base is just a new structure or if the base is under attack. the guard and attack WPs were good as well. We should have the pick up thing in as well, I can't tell you how many time people come in base and walk right by weapons without knowing where they are.
1-The uncapped RTs had a thinner, more threadlike mist coming out the top that looked much better.
2-Gorge spit looked better.
3- Laser Mines were insanely fun to use.
4- The old GL was much more deadly do to faster reload rate but still mostly anti structure.
5-The shotgun that fired slowly but had a larger clip.
6- A more lax web maximum limit made it much more useful to defend multiple areas. It is after all, a three hive ability now.
7-The HMG being more accurate and having a 150 clip (I know the game doesn't display more than 250 reserve ammo so it might be hard to do that again), as of now it's like a shotgun, close range only. It can be more powerful at killing aliens, but it would still be weak against structures.
8- Powerful charge. It's a three hive ability for the most powerful unit in the game and right now it's WEAK!
9- Powerful acid rocket. It was more powerful as a two hive ability than it is now as a three hive ability. Right now it's weak. Three hive abilities should be strong that's why marines take hive locations.
10- Aliens using phase gates. Fun but in no way incredibly inbalancing.
11- The welder, having it do more damage than knife made it a little more useful and good to have. The continuous fire is much better than that weird random rate even if it doesn't change gameplay.
12- Leap as a weapon was damn fun. Making it more powerful would make marines focus a bit more on hives which would be fine.
13- Primal Scream was useful in large combat. Right now though it is fine for CO primal scream effects an incredibly small area and lasts for an incredibly short time for a three hive ability.
14- The music was.... better, I can't explain exactly why, more dramatic?
And finally the most important thing of all is the maps. When I played 1.04 again I remembered and saw how incredibly cool the maps are. They were darkas they should be to allow the weak skulk of 1.04 (and now 3.0) to ambush his unsuspecting prey. The maps had all sorts of entitie, which, although they take up server resources makes the map much MUCH more atmospheric and just generally fun to play in. I'd rather have a really good atmospheric map with about 30 to 50 extra ping htan have a brightly lit plan boxy map with only the odd pipe here and there. Doors were never a problem unless the got blocked which could be fixed by making them damage structures (but not players, its incredibly annoying to be an expensive alien or marine and accidently get crushed by your teamate. The elevators were fast enough that you didnt have to wait 30 seconds for it to come up to you and then another 30 seconds to get down. I think it would be really enlightening if the community and the beta testers played 1.04 for about a week or two and saw what they liked about it and what made it so fun, or what made it not fun and sucky.
There is a 1.04 download available here at redphive. Players only need the 1.0 client, servers need the 1.04 patch also listed.<a href='http://redphive.org/?view=redphive_file_display' target='_blank'>http://redphive.org/?view=redphive_file_display</a>
From future post by me:
Though I am hesitant to bumb tice in a row I have something to add to my original topc from 1.04 that was good.
The waypoint system. It was fine and good, but now we don't even have build waypoints. Build waypoints are useful because you know if the WP to a room is a PG or just a WP for the whole squad or if the WP to base is just a new structure or if the base is under attack. the guard and attack WPs were good as well. We should have the pick up thing in as well, I can't tell you how many time people come in base and walk right by weapons without knowing where they are.
Comments
The Power Armour! It would suit 3.0 but a large amount of balancing would have to take place....
The Power Armour! It would suit 3.0 but a large amount of balancing would have to take place.... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Whats powerarmour? <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The Power Armour! It would suit 3.0 but a large amount of balancing would have to take place.... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Whats powerarmour? <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It made marines look like Stormtroopers <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I don't know if theres a screenshot still floating around, but it was a precursor to Heavy Armor. Its was an upgraded form of Marine armor that was self regenerating. It was litterally "Power" aka like a energy shield. A marine with power armor glowed white. Note that the glow effect was just a placeholder for effect, not the final result. Which never happened, because the cooler HA was introduced <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Maybe if each hive made evolves cheaper. Onos at hive 1 being at 90-100. Next hive it goes down, 3rd hive it goes down to about where it is now, or lower. And the 3rd hive moves right now are pretty useless. Aliens only need 2 hives to be powerfull right now.
I meant change it back to an essentially bug fixed 1.04 with combat. These could be implemented without changing (except for the maps) the hive restrictions and attacks (IE meta, stomp, devo remain) and wouldn't radically change the current tech tree.
Bingo. Hive really should be made more important. Less important than what was seen in 1.0x but more important than 2.0x and 3.0beta's.
Also, I think ElectricSheep has the right idea on things. We dont want to recreate 1.04, and yet, we dont want to put it out of our memory and shoot down everything thats remotely related to it. Right now, we should look at 1.04 and see what was done right and wrong, and bring the positive aspects to the newer versions of ns.
Adding the laser mines wouldn't effect gameplay that much and mines on walls right now are pretty worthless.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->8- Powerful charge. It's a three hive ability for the most powerful unit in the game and right now it's WEAK!
9- Powerful acid rocket. It was more powerful as a two hive ability than it is now as a three hive ability. Right now it's weak. Three hive abilities should be strong that's why marines take hive locations. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All of the 3 hive abilities had to be nerfed as to give the marines a chance once the aliens had 3 hives.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->10- Aliens using phase gates. Fun but in no way incredibly inbalancing.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wish this was back in the marines with their electrified resource towers and phase gates is annoying.
Marines shouldn't have a chance when the aliens have three hives.
I dont get what some of you see in the old blink. The new one is simply much more intuitive and manuverable. On the other hand, I wish they would make the fade either be completely invisible when blinking, or alternate between visible and invisible during its blink trips.
You can't compare it to 1.4, most games I play when aliens get 2 hives noone really cares. In 1.4 when aliens got 2 hvies all the marines paniced and rushed our **** to attempt a siege. Now its oh well who cares, it's not like they can get onos now or a fade, just another ability. Even if the abilities were made better and improved it still can't compare to getting a onos or fade. Also it just added another level to the game. Marines WANTED to hive lockdown in the fear of a onos, aliens as well tried everything they could to get a hive, now its just there. Res is everything now and its boring. WHen aliens had 3 hives, and that first onos came, the moral of the entire team just drops and you know its over. Now I see a onos and I say give me a sg.
I agree that there was a shift in map design after 1.04 almost every map is less gritty and cool. I feel less like I am playing in a real environment and more like I am playing in an arena that was designed for a slick futuristic game.
this isn't shown as any kind of feedback to the alien though, and was introduced in a changelog that no-one read.
Perhaps there should be some sort of obvious sign that the alien's armour is now worth more so they want 2nd hive before they go fade?
You can't compare it to 1.4, most games I play when aliens get 2 hives noone really cares. In 1.4 when aliens got 2 hvies all the marines paniced and rushed our **** to attempt a siege. Now its oh well who cares, it's not like they can get onos now or a fade, just another ability. Even if the abilities were made better and improved it still can't compare to getting a onos or fade. Also it just added another level to the game. Marines WANTED to hive lockdown in the fear of a onos, aliens as well tried everything they could to get a hive, now its just there. Res is everything now and its boring. WHen aliens had 3 hives, and that first onos came, the moral of the entire team just drops and you know its over. Now I see a onos and I say give me a sg. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Um... if I go onos at the one hive level I may as well as ask for a death wish and a waste of 75 res.
What the heck are you talking about?
Yeah I can see why the second hive is unimportant. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The third hive is the only pointless one with the mostly useless 3rd hive abilities.
As you knew that that wasn't the only fade. The entire alien team has probably jsut finished gestating and you were going to face at least 5 fades.
Now its rare for the aliens to have 2 fades at once, and they spend their time just blinking from RT to RT killing all the elec, running from groups of 3 or more marines, even 2 with shotties.
The old fades were footsoliders who fought in packs.
HA was an equal match for Fades and you had great running battles in corridors between fades and HA, with the HA slowing advancing or being beaten back unter a hail of acid rockets.
1.04 with 3.0 upgrades, lerk flight (but spikes not spore) and JP would be best. The res cap was GOOD, as it meant the gorge could spend the team's res, rather than the aliens wasting it on ONOS at one hive, or 1/2 the res being spent on gorging and skulking after dropping an RT.
Chain lifeforms back to number of hives, and make hive 3 weapons usefull.
Also get rid of electricity (its too powerfull when no fades/onos at one hive)
Anyone who doesn't think the second hive is important in 3.0 must not have actually played as an alien. With emergency becon and multiple ips and mines and quick arms lab upgrades being the norm, an early game alien win is very rare these days. So if you are going to win you need the second hive to get some combination of umbra stomp and bile bomb. Aliens almost never win without some combination of those 3 skills. The purpose of 1 hive fades and onos is to allow aliens to get the second hive (if they have the skill to do it relative to the enemy team, which is what all games come down to in the end).
As for the point about nobody saying "lookout 2 hives!" anymore I have several points:
1) People do actually still say that, all the time.
2) Marines are less concerned about 2 hives because it is SUPPOSED to be that way. In 1.04 games where aliens got 2 hives they won more often than not, this makes the marine concern understandable, seeing a fade basically meant you had a very strong chance of losing from then on. Plus with acid rocket spam and web and umbra at hive 2, aliens only needed the third hive to break a seriously strong force of dug in defensive marines (typically HA and turrets and GL spam).
The main problem was the "sabatage" factor.
If we had a "OH NO THREE HIVES" in that would make the game have some of the same feel to it.
But all three hives does is give them SoF, Primal Scream, Web and Xenocide (which doesn't really do much damage anymore anyway)
Web IS powerfull, but its far too easy to end up running out of web if some newb gorges web up the hives and then you can't use it anymore <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Primal scream sounds silly on a lerk, it should be onos three hive attack saying "LOOK WE HAVE AN ONOS AND THREE HIVES YOU ARE GOING TO DIE NOW K THXBYE"
AR is a joke, as is charge.
Devour is not fun at all for marines, its OK in combat but in NS it just take far too long and you can't even spectate. I always get tempted to type retry when that happens as its quicker toget back in the game and I don't see goatse.
scrap devour and make gore do more damage (100?). Replace devour with PrimalScream again, and give lerks their spikes back. Make spores hive 3 and return them to 1.04's usefull base finisher status.
Hive 3 aliens should be all powerfull, the marines only chance is to have some sieges sneakily built to take one of them down, or a sneaky PG hive rush or something.
Not just turtling and then getting enough res to HA train out.
If aliens get an easy to use, easier then biting or spore-ing, one hit kill, what do marines get? Nothing? Onos automatically get it too, so once there is an Onos in Combat the game is pretty much over. If you try to attack the hive, you get eaten, if they attack the chair, some one will get eaten while they toss aroudn everybody else. AND you get digested faster, so now they can eat faster, which makes it increasingly unfair.
Blink needs to be nerfed, why beef up an already beefed up alien? All fades do is blink and fastswitch to swipe and kill people instantly then blink away. What do we have that can compare to this? Then once they've blinked away they heal themselves, it's sad how this was overlooked.
The JETpack needs to be returned to normal, or else don't call it a JETpack, just call it an escalatorpack, because its weaker and slower then a slight breeze.
Lets just revert back to 2.0 when everything was balanced, and JPs didn't have to worry about getting eaten like the HAs. HAs are just devour targets.
I've seen it all to much and noone cares. Noones going to want to give up a 1 hit kill, just like in cs, so they will cry that its fair till the day they die.
Well to me I find that less fun. I like the whole idea of hey lets actually lock down a hive, or relocate our base into a hive to prevent a 3rd.. hmmm don't see that much anymore i wonder why.. oooh it's because marines don't care anymore as they shouldn't because the hives have lost their influence. Sure they still add to the game and aliens obviously, but NOWHERE near as much. Also I'm just stating this as a opinion I know it will NEVER go back. To many alien fan boys need their fades/ono kills asap.
thats becouse if they get the hive the aleins with there increaced speed and power and the onos that can sit with regen and 12 turrets shoting it reg faster than they can kill him, plus the lag that 3.0 give out the rines have no chance i have seen a 4 man rine team lvl 2 armmor and lvl 2 guns be taken out by one skull in about 3-5 seconds this makes the game crap as it can get how is a comm ment to take a hive when 2 rines meet a skull and are like 70% most likey to die due to the skull.
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo--> hehe i bunney hop and with focas i kill u all
thats becouse if they get the hive the aleins with there increaced speed and power and the onos that can sit with regen and 12 turrets shoting it reg faster than they can kill him, plus the lag that 3.0 give out the rines have no chance i have seen a 4 man rine team lvl 2 armmor and lvl 2 guns be taken out by one skull in about 3-5 seconds this makes the game crap as it can get how is a comm ment to take a hive when 2 rines meet a skull and are like 70% most likey to die due to the skull.
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo--> hehe i bunney hop and with focas i kill u all <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh dear god....
zek hit the nail on the head for me as well. I loved the perma "only" gorge in the game. Atleast for the first few mins until hive 2.
I also loved the detail rich maps 1.0x had as well. The new maps are pretty cool but the are much too giving to server resources than rich detail. I would like to see a good mixture of both. I would give up some ping for that. The old grenade launcher was very cool. I dont know which is better but I would accept either. I like the new shotty better than the old.
And I would love to see more emphasis put on hives rather than resources. Dont take the emphasis off resources just put a bit more on hives.