<!--QuoteBegin-Stingrayofsweden+Feb 23 2004, 09:04 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Stingrayofsweden @ Feb 23 2004, 09:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ns can be made scary, at least when you're sitting home alone (so nothing and nobody can distract you) and you keep the gamma low. In normal NS anyways, in combat you simply respawn without having lost anything at all except a couple of secounds of game time.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think you're on to something here with the respawn effect.
The ability to respawn means that dying simply becomes a nuisance. The value of living and survivng becomes incredibly neutered. Even in classic NS when I have a crapload of expensive equipment on me I don't feel the utter necessity to remain alive. I just yell out "OMG! TEAM WHY DID YOU NOT WELD ME!!!" and respawn with my next set of weapons and armor. If for instance there was a mode for team elimination on a per round basis on large maps that lend themselves to camping and a high level of hidden connectedness throughout the map, you'll find a forum for creating really scary situations. The plain and simple is that NS really offers none of these. It is simply a different game with a different driving concept. If you want to play a game where the fright factor is a core element of the game then i suggest AvP2 (even multi on some maps).
Yet another factor preventing NS from going the fright factor direction is the audience. AvP2 multiplayer never really got incredibly big. Its great for the audience that is looking for that type of game specifically, but lacks generalization in many of the more generic gameplay aspects that prevent it from being played on the scale of say CS or even NS. If NS wants to maintain/grow its audience then it can't specialize on game modes that are highly restrictive of its audience. As it stands classic NS is largely in decline compared to combat on many public servers. At first it started off as a curiosity for the new gametype, but has since evolved to an appreciation for a more basic gametype that allows more people to have fun. Classic NS requires that you at least have an appreciation for RTS games, and most people I see on pubs simply don't have this. They are all hardcore FPS guys and would rather get into the game where it is constant action and immediate gratification for being skilled whether on a personal or teamwide basis. Classic just isn't that game either. So here's the lineup for audience population for gamemodes.
Combat > Classic > (any other game mode that specializes even moreso than Classic)
If you're thinking about developing something on the lines of multiplayer oriented gameplay highly affected by ambiance then I'd seriously wait for some of the next-gen engines to come out and mod for either HL2 or Doom3.... Doom3 specifically as much of the game design is already designed for this type of gameplay anyway. Oh! and once you have decided, send an email my way and I'd love to help with the coding <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
One thing that made AVP2 scary is something that is so minor... you may not even notice its a reason...
If you've ever played AVP2 as a marine... you will notice your radar in the corner... just there... maybe a dot or too.... you spin... it spins... big deal huh?... well.... what makes this such a factor is the ping.... your walking through a dark corridor... and you hear the sound of a ping... every few seconds... you walk further and further... the ping picks up speed... and you KNOW there is something around... you keep walking... even faster... your heart beats faster, preparing you for the unknown... you turn around, just to check if your back is safe.... you almost reach the end... but the ping has stopped.. the radar is clear.... your at teh junction... you hear tapping behind the wall... then your radar bursts into sparatic pings... you spin frantically trying to read your radar and to be prepared for the creature... the dot dissapears... and then.... the untimely roar of a predalien ripping you to shreds.... the beast has pounced from the other side of the corridor... knocking you off your guard completely... scaring the **** out of you... you frantically fire your Smartgun and lock onto the alien, but to your suprise, you have been slashed by his tail, and stunned... and thus... your entire frantic is ended by your attempts to control the unknown.... as the alien finishes off your corpse, he explodes into seventeen pieces (i counted)... which is followed by several pings and the clanking of metal boots against the cat walks... radars have settled... but as they recoop over the loss of their teammate... their bodies are spewn through the air... followed by the vibrating roar of the Assault Predator, which has just cut their bodies in half with a disc.
What also helps with the 'fright factor' is that the standard marine assault rifle has the ammo gauge on the model... and when you see the little red LED go to '00'... you sh** your pants...
yeah, well, that radar you mention is spooky in of itself in Aliens (the movie)... "6 meters... 5 meters, man... <i><b>4</b></i>!!" <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo-->
In my opinion, the one all horrible, non-scary aspect of NS is the models for the kharaa... they're animals... a dog, a pig, a birdie, a cow... not scary... not at all disturbing... not even interesting...
if these lifeforms were modelled in a real "alien-to-our-own-known-shapes" way, then maybe that would enhance disturbingness of it all... something like I suggested <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=53794' target='_blank'>HERE</a> <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
but of course, having done frikin' T-Shirts and having graphics of all kinds everywhere with the current models, I doubt Flayra'd ever change 'em... too bad, 'coz it's a pain playing against or as cute little farm animals... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
In the thread that suggested that all NS aliens be changed to blobs because it would fit the "theme" more, I wrote several good posts on the subject as to why NS should NOT be scary and doesn't need to be. Go search for it in the NS custom forum.
<!--QuoteBegin-coil+Feb 23 2004, 05:39 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (coil @ Feb 23 2004, 05:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> There's nothing scarier than having your Commander tell you to hold a position all by yourself, waiting for your team to arrive. You & your LMG in a dark corner, and that's it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I remember the early days of NS, when my commander, a certain Professional Victim, got me (and nobody else) to guard the big, noisy engine room on Hera. The tap-tap of skulks, barely audible over the roar of the machinery, combined with the darkness and flickering lights meant I nearly cacked myself on more than one occasion.
I kept that room clear of infestation, though, and the resource tower got built.
It was a brilliant game until PV had to momentarily leave the comm chair to help with something, and returned to found some prat had spammed the marine spawn with phase gates. Argh.
I'd say the game is more scary when you first start playing, especially if you started in 1.xx - no minimap. The minimap is good for gameplay, but not for the scary factor. But, eh. I think 1.0 was scarier than the current versions, but thats just me.
Scary as it sounds (hoohah. Good pun, there, Delphi.), I roleplay when I'm a marine. Aliens are all work, generally. But marines are a "Get behind the helmet" experience for me.
I'll swear, and curse and moan and b**** and yell over the mic to get people to move. "Get yo' f***in a** to yo' god damned waypoint before I come over there and smack you so hard your <i>grand</i>children'll feel it!" and "<b>When I say a phase gate is up, it means you drop the thumb out yo' a** and get the f*** over here, NOW</b>".
All done in a semi-southern drawl.
Works suprisingly well to whip the marine team into shape.. and I'm not even the comm. "Comanndar, give me a god damned resource towah here before I come back to base and b****slap you!" does wonders, too. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I joined a game halfway through.. Rines were losing, they had two hives, one building.. We pushed to Mother hive with my badgering (The entity to open the mess hall doors was not loaded, so we had to take the long way), took that down, set it all up, sieged subspace from Motherinterface, blew away about 5 onos, 3 fades, about a dozen lerks, and billions of skulks before we managed to siege port out, then (At more of my badgering), we set up a massive siege farm in cargo to get them out of the gorgie hideout in the vent.
Sure, half the marine team had me on mute, one quarter were laughing their arses off, but the other quarter listened, and did their job so well, it wasn't funny.
I miss those days... <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I roleplay as marine too. I call the commander "comm", "Commander", "Sir" all those type of things. The comm never thinks me as an idoit who takes the game seriously, but it is a good thing to address your higher up properly and not call him nams such as "Hey a**wipe give me a freaking resource tower" I say that when to comm sucks.
Its guys like you, Delphi, that I absolutely cannot STAND playing with. I'm not a huge fan of muting because i give people the benefit of the doubt and assume they might actually have something useful to say down the line. This means I'm stuck listening to you instead of the skulk coming from behind me. Had you NOT been spamming the comms with rediculously dramatized banter (yes, it is STILL banter) you have would likely not have cost your team a life and RT.
I have been killed more times than i care simply because some genius decides it must be known that the commander's attention should be on him because he went off on his own to "benefit the team and drop res towers." That's fine and everything, but use the damned "ready for orders" radio message instead of bothering the rest of us with your sense of fun. I don't even mind if you start talking in your dramatic southern drawl and cussing people out, but do it OFF the comms and not where the rest of the people that could care less can hear you. Fun for you does not equate to fun for everyone. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Voice comm is a great tool to aid in teamwork, but only if it is not abused.
More random ambient stuff would be nice, or something that would play when you've low health, perhaps something nice and scary for when you finally peg it. Not "ugg glug glug" but some sort of jarring music.
agreed, light tone and ambient noises are the key, also a few bloodly handprints on a wall would do too, but in avp if u enter a room sometimes ull get a loud amiebnt freaky noise then adrenaline rushing nmusic will play, as for the area loud jjumping ambient sound, id have to go with ns_ayumi, i love that loud high pitched sound. it makes people jump once in awhile
<!--QuoteBegin-AoF.Palin+Feb 23 2004, 04:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AoF.Palin @ Feb 23 2004, 04:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Its guys like you, Delphi, that I absolutely cannot STAND playing with. I'm not a huge fan of muting because i give people the benefit of the doubt and assume they might actually have something useful to say down the line. This means I'm stuck listening to you instead of the skulk coming from behind me. Had you NOT been spamming the comms with rediculously dramatized banter (yes, it is STILL banter) you have would likely not have cost your team a life and RT.
I have been killed more times than i care simply because some genius decides it must be known that the commander's attention should be on him because he went off on his own to "benefit the team and drop res towers." That's fine and everything, but use the damned "ready for orders" radio message instead of bothering the rest of us with your sense of fun. I don't even mind if you start talking in your dramatic southern drawl and cussing people out, but do it OFF the comms and not where the rest of the people that could care less can hear you. Fun for you does not equate to fun for everyone. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Voice comm is a great tool to aid in teamwork, but only if it is not abused. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't do it every day, nubcaek.
In fact, it was only one game. And if you were off alone, not listning to my "orders", you deserved to get killed by that skulk anyway. There's no I in team, and I wasn't cussing out people to make my own ratio go higher. I was doing it so people would get off their a**es and work together to complete an objective.
We obliterated everything the aliens threw at us, and it was kind of satisfying to say "Phase is up, you peices of sh**, now get yo' lazy a** out here, NOW" and see the ENTIRE team phase through and start operations to siege port hive.
Either way, the nubcaek rambos who went off on their own to try and "sneak" a phase without backup got obliterated rightly as they should have. You work as a team on the marines, and you get done 99% quicker.
Well... my personal experience comes from when I'm the one actually following orders and the rambo is the loudmouth that thinks he knows better. However, he ends up taking half the team with him contrary to commander's orders acting as if he's really in command and spams the comms with some dramatic act of bravado. I didn't mean to jab at you personally, but in general it is nice when the comms are clear of any but necessary communication. That way when a marine is in hostile territory he can actually kill incoming threats as opposed to being caught totally unawares.
Again nothing personal at you... but i think people should generally leave voice comm alone unless they are the commander or responding directly to a commander query.
Fr05t and BrigadierWolf both hit upon an important point. Atmosphere. Nothing past the concept of NS itself lends itself to fear. Once you get past the initial concept of aliens eating people, then it's just not scary any more. Fear has to be something which we give our own minds more room to generate. You can't create false fear and assume everyone will be afraid of it.
For instance, the greatest fears I have deal with religion and philosophy. If I tried to use those fears on everyone else, its efficiency is going to vary per person. People who also fear the same things as I will be afraid of it and people who couldn't care less would feel pretty apathetic.
The only fear that is universal is the unknown. Thus the "unseen monster" jumping out from the "unexpected area" in many films today. Our imaginations fill in the monster with something we think to be scary, so it becomes universal, and the area just relies on our nature as living beings to constantly be ready to go into "Fight or Flight" mode which goes back to our days as more primitive beings.
Basically, to make NS scary, the "Unseen Monster coming from Unexpected Area very abruptly" method is going to have to be used, for the billionth time. And the map and ambient sounds are going to have to be used more convincingly.
This won't be too helpful to the marine team in my opinion...
Theres someone nobody has touched on yet, and id like to add it:
The thing that really got me in AvP is that screaming. Aliens in AvP let out a ear-piercing scream when you filled them full of bullets. The aliens now, more or less, dont say a damn thing until you get them pretty damaged.
I just introduced a friend to NS, and the first thing he said is "it's too damn scary!"
he's a CS veteran, hehe...
I have to agree with him -- at first, it's damn scary to see a skulk jump at your face out of nowhere...
once you get used to the game though, the phear goes mostly away... for better or for worse <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo--> since being scared is part of the fun hehe
<!--QuoteBegin-weggy+Feb 23 2004, 10:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (weggy @ Feb 23 2004, 10:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Theres someone nobody has touched on yet, and id like to add it:
The thing that really got me in AvP is that screaming. Aliens in AvP let out a ear-piercing scream when you filled them full of bullets. The aliens now, more or less, dont say a damn thing until you get them pretty damaged. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> *shudder*
i HATE that scream. (and that's a good thing <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
[and can you EVER stop getting scared at AvP2? I dont think so...]
<!--QuoteBegin-weggy+Feb 24 2004, 12:30 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (weggy @ Feb 24 2004, 12:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The thing that really got me in AvP is that screaming. Aliens in AvP let out a ear-piercing scream when you filled them full of bullets. The aliens now, more or less, dont say a damn thing until you get them pretty damaged. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Right on...that goes for both sides...death screams for marines and aliens would be awesome!
<!--QuoteBegin-Cold-NiTe+Feb 23 2004, 11:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cold-NiTe @ Feb 23 2004, 11:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Fr05t and BrigadierWolf both hit upon an important point. Atmosphere. Nothing past the concept of NS itself lends itself to fear. Once you get past the initial concept of aliens eating people, then it's just not scary any more. Fear has to be something which we give our own minds more room to generate. You can't create false fear and assume everyone will be afraid of it.
For instance, the greatest fears I have deal with religion and philosophy. If I tried to use those fears on everyone else, its efficiency is going to vary per person. People who also fear the same things as I will be afraid of it and people who couldn't care less would feel pretty apathetic.
The only fear that is universal is the unknown. Thus the "unseen monster" jumping out from the "unexpected area" in many films today. Our imaginations fill in the monster with something we think to be scary, so it becomes universal, and the area just relies on our nature as living beings to constantly be ready to go into "Fight or Flight" mode which goes back to our days as more primitive beings.
Basically, to make NS scary, the "Unseen Monster coming from Unexpected Area very abruptly" method is going to have to be used, for the billionth time. And the map and ambient sounds are going to have to be used more convincingly.
This won't be too helpful to the marine team in my opinion... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Have you ever played HL: Opposing Force single player? Remember the first time when you hear the clanking of movement above you in the garage area and look up to see pit drones running across the grating? If you were to add that kind of ambience to several maps, even the most hardened veterans would probably start panting. Why? Because you use the same sound as a skulk going across metal grating or an occasional fade growl. If people want to be scared, you have to add stuff to frighten them.
The grating I was talking about? Guess what, you find yourself being bitten and jumping in suprise to try and turn around to kill the skulk only to die and watch several other squad memeber sdie to the same skulk or several. But after the first few times, no trouble eh? You're used to it? Think again. Here comes a silenced lurks biting your head off and flying away. You shoot at it as it retreats and hear the victory growl of a fade killing someone as you see the squad mate's name that was with you appear on the right side of the screen with the fade death and are staring face to face with the same fade. You go to fire at it and that lerk comes back around and finishes the job. If we are going to make this game scary, despite ambience, we have to make other people afraid. Know that skulk that scares you occasionally because they were walking along the wall above the door you're coming from? Well, the aliens will have to start playing like that. They'll have to use your fear and stealth to scare you and stun you with fright then finish the job. It won't work with the Bhoppying skulk that tears through your squad and runs away.
You get the same feeling as well when that one skulk from the door drops down, kills the guys in front of you and comes at you. Three marines with sgs and lmgs, several solid hits and it's comming to perforate your abdomine...
One thing you need to induce fear is time...you need to allow the victims imagination to start working, this means a good 5 to 10 minutes of inactivity.
This is obviously not viable in a MP enviroment, I mean in NS Classic its a rush to secure res, build and lockdown hives...whos got time to imagine things.
All you could really hope to attain is the 'boo' in your face type fear - cloaked skulk or bumping into a Onos/Fade around the corner.
what about making the game more frightful for aliens?
even thou in AVP2 marines are the ones who get shafted in every cituation... but HA's just don't seem like the powerful unit that they're meant to be... of course if your a gorge and you see a group of HA's you immediate think.. "run away"... but it just doesent seem scary.. just like a reaction so you dont have to waste more res to go gorge again...
thou aliens aren't supposed to know 'fear' or something... it just isnt very heart ripping, adrenaline pumping goodness..
again i realize that aliens arent supposed to feel afraid.. but the person playing the alien should...
Fear = Fun
ex.... Disney World... tower of terror... = WEEEEEE!!!
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> [and can you EVER stop getting scared at AvP2? I dont think so...]<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So true. Christ I wouldn't want to step around the corner if I had a division of vets behind me.
Is the fact that you all dont find NS scary going to make you stop playing it? I think not.
<!--QuoteBegin-sTuPiD iTiaLiAn2k+Feb 24 2004, 08:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (sTuPiD iTiaLiAn2k @ Feb 24 2004, 08:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> even thou in AVP2 marines are the ones who get shafted in every cituation... but HA's just don't seem like the powerful unit that they're meant to be... of course if your a gorge and you see a group of HA's you immediate think.. "run away"... but it just doesent seem scary.. just like a reaction so you dont have to waste more res to go gorge again... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> nothing seems like the powerful units that they originally were. everything has been babied down in hopes to make games faster paced and quicker, but instead i find it leading to more camping and about the same amount of time on average. The only thing I have noticed is that the epic games have decreased in time from about 3-5 hours to 1-2 hours. I miss the days where i played one game of NS and when it was all said and done, I wondered where the day had gone.
<!--QuoteBegin-Fr05t+Feb 24 2004, 03:19 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fr05t @ Feb 24 2004, 03:19 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The grating I was talking about? Guess what, you find yourself being bitten and jumping in suprise to try and turn around to kill the skulk only to die and watch several other squad memeber sdie to the same skulk or several. But after the first few times, no trouble eh? You're used to it? Think again. Here comes a silenced lurks biting your head off and flying away. You shoot at it as it retreats and hear the victory growl of a fade killing someone as you see the squad mate's name that was with you appear on the right side of the screen with the fade death and are staring face to face with the same fade. You go to fire at it and that lerk comes back around and finishes the job. If we are going to make this game scary, despite ambience, we have to make other people afraid. Know that skulk that scares you occasionally because they were walking along the wall above the door you're coming from? Well, the aliens will have to start playing like that. They'll have to use your fear and stealth to scare you and stun you with fright then finish the job. It won't work with the Bhoppying skulk that tears through your squad and runs away.
You get the same feeling as well when that one skulk from the door drops down, kills the guys in front of you and comes at you. Three marines with sgs and lmgs, several solid hits and it's comming to perforate your abdomine... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> yeah, well, this'd be fine n' all if it weren't for the fact that those growls n' *click* *clak*ing come from frikin' <b><i>farm animals!</i> </b> <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-sTuPiD iTiaLiAn2k+Feb 24 2004, 09:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (sTuPiD iTiaLiAn2k @ Feb 24 2004, 09:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> another thing not touched on....
what about making the game more frightful for aliens?
even thou in AVP2 marines are the ones who get shafted in every cituation... but HA's just don't seem like the powerful unit that they're meant to be... of course if your a gorge and you see a group of HA's you immediate think.. "run away"... but it just doesent seem scary.. just like a reaction so you dont have to waste more res to go gorge again...
thou aliens aren't supposed to know 'fear' or something... it just isnt very heart ripping, adrenaline pumping goodness..
again i realize that aliens arent supposed to feel afraid.. but the person playing the alien should...
Fear = Fun
ex.... Disney World... tower of terror... = WEEEEEE!!! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Someone never played a fade recently.
A focus/regen/adren fade is a scary thing. Blink into a group of 'rines, slice one in half.. health dropping.. 250.. 200.. 100.. will you blink out in time? Metabolize, quick! ****! they came around the corner, blink faster, man!
Some of my best (more recent) games were me as a fade, using hit and run tactics, or blazing around rine base, drawing fire..
Most horror movies worth the name build up suspence by having something bad happen to establish that it is plausible that something horrible could happen at any time. Then they spend 98% of the movie with scenes where something scary looks like it very well <i>might</i> happen but not actually does.
i find nothing at all scary at all about the game[nothing...period]
but i will keep playing it, i love it <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-frostymoose+Feb 23 2004, 12:20 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (frostymoose @ Feb 23 2004, 12:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-th0r0n^+Feb 23 2004, 12:02 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (th0r0n^ @ Feb 23 2004, 12:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> single player games will always be scarier than multiplayer games, it's the feeling of being alone that scares me. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <u><b>exactly</b></u>
I reinstalled avp yesterday and damn is it creepy. the aliens are hard to see, they move fast as hell, attack in groups, make creepy screams, come from behind, and seem to come back from the dead at times and there you are with no backup anywhere... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> *coughistartedthatthreadcough*
Anyways, I agree. Mutliplayer games wont be as scary as single player games, unless the mutliplayer games are co-op.
I hope that by the time NS2 is (hopefully) made, that there will be co-op missions to play with your buddies, and your scared s***less from all the stuff comming at you.
NS is fine as it is, sometimes I just wish there was a bit of fright in there.
<!--QuoteBegin-Cold-NiTe+Feb 23 2004, 11:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cold-NiTe @ Feb 23 2004, 11:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Fr05t and BrigadierWolf both hit upon an important point. Atmosphere. Nothing past the concept of NS itself lends itself to fear. Once you get past the initial concept of aliens eating people, then it's just not scary any more. Fear has to be something which we give our own minds more room to generate. You can't create false fear and assume everyone will be afraid of it.
For instance, the greatest fears I have deal with religion and philosophy. If I tried to use those fears on everyone else, its efficiency is going to vary per person. People who also fear the same things as I will be afraid of it and people who couldn't care less would feel pretty apathetic.
The only fear that is universal is the unknown. Thus the "unseen monster" jumping out from the "unexpected area" in many films today. Our imaginations fill in the monster with something we think to be scary, so it becomes universal, and the area just relies on our nature as living beings to constantly be ready to go into "Fight or Flight" mode which goes back to our days as more primitive beings.
Basically, to make NS scary, the "Unseen Monster coming from Unexpected Area very abruptly" method is going to have to be used, for the billionth time. And the map and ambient sounds are going to have to be used more convincingly.
This won't be too helpful to the marine team in my opinion... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree. Fear is mostly generated by the fear for our lives or that we're going to get hurt (or someone else close to us is). Since its just a mutliplayer game, you have no fear. The jumping fright thing will have to be used. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Comments
I think you're on to something here with the respawn effect.
The ability to respawn means that dying simply becomes a nuisance. The value of living and survivng becomes incredibly neutered. Even in classic NS when I have a crapload of expensive equipment on me I don't feel the utter necessity to remain alive. I just yell out "OMG! TEAM WHY DID YOU NOT WELD ME!!!" and respawn with my next set of weapons and armor. If for instance there was a mode for team elimination on a per round basis on large maps that lend themselves to camping and a high level of hidden connectedness throughout the map, you'll find a forum for creating really scary situations. The plain and simple is that NS really offers none of these. It is simply a different game with a different driving concept. If you want to play a game where the fright factor is a core element of the game then i suggest AvP2 (even multi on some maps).
Yet another factor preventing NS from going the fright factor direction is the audience. AvP2 multiplayer never really got incredibly big. Its great for the audience that is looking for that type of game specifically, but lacks generalization in many of the more generic gameplay aspects that prevent it from being played on the scale of say CS or even NS. If NS wants to maintain/grow its audience then it can't specialize on game modes that are highly restrictive of its audience. As it stands classic NS is largely in decline compared to combat on many public servers. At first it started off as a curiosity for the new gametype, but has since evolved to an appreciation for a more basic gametype that allows more people to have fun. Classic NS requires that you at least have an appreciation for RTS games, and most people I see on pubs simply don't have this. They are all hardcore FPS guys and would rather get into the game where it is constant action and immediate gratification for being skilled whether on a personal or teamwide basis. Classic just isn't that game either. So here's the lineup for audience population for gamemodes.
Combat > Classic > (any other game mode that specializes even moreso than Classic)
If you're thinking about developing something on the lines of multiplayer oriented gameplay highly affected by ambiance then I'd seriously wait for some of the next-gen engines to come out and mod for either HL2 or Doom3.... Doom3 specifically as much of the game design is already designed for this type of gameplay anyway. Oh! and once you have decided, send an email my way and I'd love to help with the coding <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If you've ever played AVP2 as a marine... you will notice your radar in the corner... just there... maybe a dot or too.... you spin... it spins... big deal huh?... well.... what makes this such a factor is the ping.... your walking through a dark corridor... and you hear the sound of a ping... every few seconds... you walk further and further... the ping picks up speed... and you KNOW there is something around... you keep walking... even faster... your heart beats faster, preparing you for the unknown... you turn around, just to check if your back is safe.... you almost reach the end... but the ping has stopped.. the radar is clear.... your at teh junction... you hear tapping behind the wall... then your radar bursts into sparatic pings... you spin frantically trying to read your radar and to be prepared for the creature... the dot dissapears... and then.... the untimely roar of a predalien ripping you to shreds.... the beast has pounced from the other side of the corridor... knocking you off your guard completely... scaring the **** out of you... you frantically fire your Smartgun and lock onto the alien, but to your suprise, you have been slashed by his tail, and stunned... and thus... your entire frantic is ended by your attempts to control the unknown.... as the alien finishes off your corpse, he explodes into seventeen pieces (i counted)... which is followed by several pings and the clanking of metal boots against the cat walks... radars have settled... but as they recoop over the loss of their teammate... their bodies are spewn through the air... followed by the vibrating roar of the Assault Predator, which has just cut their bodies in half with a disc.
What also helps with the 'fright factor' is that the standard marine assault rifle has the ammo gauge on the model... and when you see the little red LED go to '00'... you sh** your pants...
In my opinion, the one all horrible, non-scary aspect of NS is the models for the kharaa... they're animals... a dog, a pig, a birdie, a cow... not scary... not at all disturbing... not even interesting...
if these lifeforms were modelled in a real "alien-to-our-own-known-shapes" way, then maybe that would enhance disturbingness of it all... something like I suggested <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=53794' target='_blank'>HERE</a> <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
but of course, having done frikin' T-Shirts and having graphics of all kinds everywhere with the current models, I doubt Flayra'd ever change 'em... too bad, 'coz it's a pain playing against or as cute little farm animals... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I remember the early days of NS, when my commander, a certain Professional Victim, got me (and nobody else) to guard the big, noisy engine room on Hera. The tap-tap of skulks, barely audible over the roar of the machinery, combined with the darkness and flickering lights meant I nearly cacked myself on more than one occasion.
I kept that room clear of infestation, though, and the resource tower got built.
It was a brilliant game until PV had to momentarily leave the comm chair to help with something, and returned to found some prat had spammed the marine spawn with phase gates. Argh.
I'll swear, and curse and moan and b**** and yell over the mic to get people to move. "Get yo' f***in a** to yo' god damned waypoint before I come over there and smack you so hard your <i>grand</i>children'll feel it!" and "<b>When I say a phase gate is up, it means you drop the thumb out yo' a** and get the f*** over here, NOW</b>".
All done in a semi-southern drawl.
Works suprisingly well to whip the marine team into shape.. and I'm not even the comm. "Comanndar, give me a god damned resource towah here before I come back to base and b****slap you!" does wonders, too. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I joined a game halfway through.. Rines were losing, they had two hives, one building.. We pushed to Mother hive with my badgering (The entity to open the mess hall doors was not loaded, so we had to take the long way), took that down, set it all up, sieged subspace from Motherinterface, blew away about 5 onos, 3 fades, about a dozen lerks, and billions of skulks before we managed to siege port out, then (At more of my badgering), we set up a massive siege farm in cargo to get them out of the gorgie hideout in the vent.
Sure, half the marine team had me on mute, one quarter were laughing their arses off, but the other quarter listened, and did their job so well, it wasn't funny.
I miss those days... <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I have been killed more times than i care simply because some genius decides it must be known that the commander's attention should be on him because he went off on his own to "benefit the team and drop res towers." That's fine and everything, but use the damned "ready for orders" radio message instead of bothering the rest of us with your sense of fun. I don't even mind if you start talking in your dramatic southern drawl and cussing people out, but do it OFF the comms and not where the rest of the people that could care less can hear you. Fun for you does not equate to fun for everyone. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Voice comm is a great tool to aid in teamwork, but only if it is not abused.
MOHAA is interesting, when you die there's a sharp "Argh!" and your view goes skyward real fast, giving the impresion that you've been killed HARD.
I have been killed more times than i care simply because some genius decides it must be known that the commander's attention should be on him because he went off on his own to "benefit the team and drop res towers." That's fine and everything, but use the damned "ready for orders" radio message instead of bothering the rest of us with your sense of fun. I don't even mind if you start talking in your dramatic southern drawl and cussing people out, but do it OFF the comms and not where the rest of the people that could care less can hear you. Fun for you does not equate to fun for everyone. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Voice comm is a great tool to aid in teamwork, but only if it is not abused. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't do it every day, nubcaek.
In fact, it was only one game. And if you were off alone, not listning to my "orders", you deserved to get killed by that skulk anyway. There's no I in team, and I wasn't cussing out people to make my own ratio go higher. I was doing it so people would get off their a**es and work together to complete an objective.
We obliterated everything the aliens threw at us, and it was kind of satisfying to say "Phase is up, you peices of sh**, now get yo' lazy a** out here, NOW" and see the ENTIRE team phase through and start operations to siege port hive.
Either way, the nubcaek rambos who went off on their own to try and "sneak" a phase without backup got obliterated rightly as they should have. You work as a team on the marines, and you get done 99% quicker.
It sounds like you're just a bitter rambo.
Again nothing personal at you... but i think people should generally leave voice comm alone unless they are the commander or responding directly to a commander query.
For instance, the greatest fears I have deal with religion and philosophy. If I tried to use those fears on everyone else, its efficiency is going to vary per person. People who also fear the same things as I will be afraid of it and people who couldn't care less would feel pretty apathetic.
The only fear that is universal is the unknown. Thus the "unseen monster" jumping out from the "unexpected area" in many films today. Our imaginations fill in the monster with something we think to be scary, so it becomes universal, and the area just relies on our nature as living beings to constantly be ready to go into "Fight or Flight" mode which goes back to our days as more primitive beings.
Basically, to make NS scary, the "Unseen Monster coming from Unexpected Area very abruptly" method is going to have to be used, for the billionth time. And the map and ambient sounds are going to have to be used more convincingly.
This won't be too helpful to the marine team in my opinion...
The thing that really got me in AvP is that screaming. Aliens in AvP let out a ear-piercing scream when you filled them full of bullets. The aliens now, more or less, dont say a damn thing until you get them pretty damaged.
he's a CS veteran, hehe...
I have to agree with him -- at first, it's damn scary to see a skulk jump at your face out of nowhere...
once you get used to the game though, the phear goes mostly away... for better or for worse <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo--> since being scared is part of the fun hehe
The thing that really got me in AvP is that screaming. Aliens in AvP let out a ear-piercing scream when you filled them full of bullets. The aliens now, more or less, dont say a damn thing until you get them pretty damaged. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
*shudder*
i HATE that scream. (and that's a good thing <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
[and can you EVER stop getting scared at AvP2? I dont think so...]
Right on...that goes for both sides...death screams for marines and aliens would be awesome!
For instance, the greatest fears I have deal with religion and philosophy. If I tried to use those fears on everyone else, its efficiency is going to vary per person. People who also fear the same things as I will be afraid of it and people who couldn't care less would feel pretty apathetic.
The only fear that is universal is the unknown. Thus the "unseen monster" jumping out from the "unexpected area" in many films today. Our imaginations fill in the monster with something we think to be scary, so it becomes universal, and the area just relies on our nature as living beings to constantly be ready to go into "Fight or Flight" mode which goes back to our days as more primitive beings.
Basically, to make NS scary, the "Unseen Monster coming from Unexpected Area very abruptly" method is going to have to be used, for the billionth time. And the map and ambient sounds are going to have to be used more convincingly.
This won't be too helpful to the marine team in my opinion... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Have you ever played HL: Opposing Force single player? Remember the first time when you hear the clanking of movement above you in the garage area and look up to see pit drones running across the grating? If you were to add that kind of ambience to several maps, even the most hardened veterans would probably start panting. Why? Because you use the same sound as a skulk going across metal grating or an occasional fade growl. If people want to be scared, you have to add stuff to frighten them.
The grating I was talking about? Guess what, you find yourself being bitten and jumping in suprise to try and turn around to kill the skulk only to die and watch several other squad memeber sdie to the same skulk or several. But after the first few times, no trouble eh? You're used to it? Think again. Here comes a silenced lurks biting your head off and flying away. You shoot at it as it retreats and hear the victory growl of a fade killing someone as you see the squad mate's name that was with you appear on the right side of the screen with the fade death and are staring face to face with the same fade. You go to fire at it and that lerk comes back around and finishes the job. If we are going to make this game scary, despite ambience, we have to make other people afraid. Know that skulk that scares you occasionally because they were walking along the wall above the door you're coming from? Well, the aliens will have to start playing like that. They'll have to use your fear and stealth to scare you and stun you with fright then finish the job. It won't work with the Bhoppying skulk that tears through your squad and runs away.
You get the same feeling as well when that one skulk from the door drops down, kills the guys in front of you and comes at you. Three marines with sgs and lmgs, several solid hits and it's comming to perforate your abdomine...
This is obviously not viable in a MP enviroment, I mean in NS Classic its a rush to secure res, build and lockdown hives...whos got time to imagine things.
All you could really hope to attain is the 'boo' in your face type fear - cloaked skulk or bumping into a Onos/Fade around the corner.
what about making the game more frightful for aliens?
even thou in AVP2 marines are the ones who get shafted in every cituation...
but HA's just don't seem like the powerful unit that they're meant to be... of course if your a gorge and you see a group of HA's you immediate think.. "run away"... but it just doesent seem scary.. just like a reaction so you dont have to waste more res to go gorge again...
thou aliens aren't supposed to know 'fear' or something... it just isnt very heart ripping, adrenaline pumping goodness..
again i realize that aliens arent supposed to feel afraid.. but the person playing the alien should...
Fear = Fun
ex.... Disney World... tower of terror... = WEEEEEE!!!
[and can you EVER stop getting scared at AvP2? I dont think so...]<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So true. Christ I wouldn't want to step around the corner if I had a division of vets behind me.
Is the fact that you all dont find NS scary going to make you stop playing it? I think not.
but HA's just don't seem like the powerful unit that they're meant to be... of course if your a gorge and you see a group of HA's you immediate think.. "run away"... but it just doesent seem scary.. just like a reaction so you dont have to waste more res to go gorge again... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
nothing seems like the powerful units that they originally were. everything has been babied down in hopes to make games faster paced and quicker, but instead i find it leading to more camping and about the same amount of time on average. The only thing I have noticed is that the epic games have decreased in time from about 3-5 hours to 1-2 hours. I miss the days where i played one game of NS and when it was all said and done, I wondered where the day had gone.
You get the same feeling as well when that one skulk from the door drops down, kills the guys in front of you and comes at you. Three marines with sgs and lmgs, several solid hits and it's comming to perforate your abdomine... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah, well, this'd be fine n' all if it weren't for the fact that those growls n' *click* *clak*ing come from frikin' <b><i>farm animals!</i> </b> <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
what about making the game more frightful for aliens?
even thou in AVP2 marines are the ones who get shafted in every cituation...
but HA's just don't seem like the powerful unit that they're meant to be... of course if your a gorge and you see a group of HA's you immediate think.. "run away"... but it just doesent seem scary.. just like a reaction so you dont have to waste more res to go gorge again...
thou aliens aren't supposed to know 'fear' or something... it just isnt very heart ripping, adrenaline pumping goodness..
again i realize that aliens arent supposed to feel afraid.. but the person playing the alien should...
Fear = Fun
ex.... Disney World... tower of terror... = WEEEEEE!!! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Someone never played a fade recently.
A focus/regen/adren fade is a scary thing. Blink into a group of 'rines, slice one in half.. health dropping.. 250.. 200.. 100.. will you blink out in time? Metabolize, quick! ****! they came around the corner, blink faster, man!
Some of my best (more recent) games were me as a fade, using hit and run tactics, or blazing around rine base, drawing fire..
but i will keep playing it, i love it <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<u><b>exactly</b></u>
I reinstalled avp yesterday and damn is it creepy. the aliens are hard to see, they move fast as hell, attack in groups, make creepy screams, come from behind, and seem to come back from the dead at times and there you are with no backup anywhere... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
*coughistartedthatthreadcough*
Anyways, I agree. Mutliplayer games wont be as scary as single player games, unless the mutliplayer games are co-op.
I hope that by the time NS2 is (hopefully) made, that there will be co-op missions to play with your buddies, and your scared s***less from all the stuff comming at you.
NS is fine as it is, sometimes I just wish there was a bit of fright in there.
For instance, the greatest fears I have deal with religion and philosophy. If I tried to use those fears on everyone else, its efficiency is going to vary per person. People who also fear the same things as I will be afraid of it and people who couldn't care less would feel pretty apathetic.
The only fear that is universal is the unknown. Thus the "unseen monster" jumping out from the "unexpected area" in many films today. Our imaginations fill in the monster with something we think to be scary, so it becomes universal, and the area just relies on our nature as living beings to constantly be ready to go into "Fight or Flight" mode which goes back to our days as more primitive beings.
Basically, to make NS scary, the "Unseen Monster coming from Unexpected Area very abruptly" method is going to have to be used, for the billionth time. And the map and ambient sounds are going to have to be used more convincingly.
This won't be too helpful to the marine team in my opinion... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree. Fear is mostly generated by the fear for our lives or that we're going to get hurt (or someone else close to us is). Since its just a mutliplayer game, you have no fear. The jumping fright thing will have to be used. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->