<!--QuoteBegin-Fantasmo+Mar 15 2004, 03:22 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fantasmo @ Mar 15 2004, 03:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <b>Posted in Firewater's "Abolishing the Hives System" thread:</b>
Been away for awhile and I see there are a few interesting things brewing...
Did someone suggest a the idea of a buildable hive (which allows spawns) at any location on the map? I think that sounds very interesting and it could be a very dynamic gameplay model... this is my first impression of how I think it could work;
[QUOTE]<b>Basic Concept - <u>Hives Model</b></u>
- Aliens are allowed a maximum of 3 hives. - The Main Hive (or Mother Hive) cannot be destroyed (like the CC) - The 2 other hives can be built anywhere on the map (Expandable Hives) - Evolutions and abilities <b><i>are</i></b> linked to hives* - Chambers <b><i>are not</i></b> linked to Hives
*<i>I know this is kind of going back to the 1.04 Hive system but bear with me</i>[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]<b>Concept - <u>Expandable Hives</b></u>
- Aliens can spawn from expandable hives - Expandable hives are weaker then the mother hive (slightly slower heal rate and lesser cost?) - Expandable hives can only be built outside of a min. distance from Mother Hive* - Expandable hives has a min. space requirement (no hives in hallway/small rooms)
*<i>Cannot have 3 hives healing each other :o</i>
<u><b>Impact?</b></u>
- No predefined hive locations (less predictablility, more strategic options) - Expandable Hives can be built as a forward base, a resource base in a resource rich area, or to hold strategic areas[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]<b>Basic Concept - <u>Unlinking Chambers to Hives</u></b>
- Gorges can build any chamber any time - Aliens will only be allowed to get 1-of-3 chamber upgrades per hive (2 hives: 2-of-3 upgrades / 3 hives: 3-of-3 upgrades)
<b><u>Impact?</u></b>
- Aliens can employ mixed upgrade tactics before 2+ hives - No chamber order means greater flexability and adaptability[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]<b>Basic Concept - <u>Linking Evolutions and Abilities to Hives</u></b>
- 1 Hive: Skulks, Gorges, and Lerks / 2 Hives: Fades / 3 Hives: Onos - Abilities linked to hives (same as always)[/QUOTE]
<b><u>Impact?</u></b><i>
- Some people might really be displeased with this suggestion but I think <b>deployable spawn points</b> [i]and</i> <b>chambers unlinked from hives</b> are both significant advances. Evolutions at any hive seems a little overpowered with idea idea (<i>but you tell me, think it would work with evos unlinked to hives?</i>) [/quote]
My initial impression of this system is that it is a compromise between completely doing away a system with a 3 Hive Structure and giving aliens more tactical and strategic flexibility.
I think the main impact of deployable hive system as opposed to the current hive system is that the aliens are now in control of what territory they want to take. In all the other versions the territory aliens [i]required[/b] is predefined by the map. By allowing aliens to pick where they want a 2nd/3rd spawn area (balanced by the marine ability to relocate ips or to build forward bases?), this drastically alters the marine approach to wiping the aliens out. Things change when you don't know the enemy can come from 1-of-3 places.
This suggestion is by no means perfect and as always feel free to open up.
The gameplay I envision is a fight for resources where mini-hives and tfac/sieges/turrets are built, fought over and destroyed in the struggle for terrritory, resources, and ultimately, access to each others MS. (They both know where each others MS is, but where are the PGs and mini-hives?) Major tweaks required? Probably. Costs would have to be adjusted.
Use your imagination if you see something in it, tell me what you think. Whomever suggested it, I don't quite recall, I think it is a fair compromise of ideas with interesting strategic possibilities.
I think it preserves the action in the FPS while expanding strategic depth in the RTS.
EDiT <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I wish this would be done 100% I agree 100% with everything. And TBH maps should be way larger, with important locations that could give favors, EG infest idea/power nozzle. When infest or Power nozzle is built at LOCation it would grant eg powers over area. EG lights shutting/turning on. This is diff from welding because these can be rebuilt destroyed and rebuilt again. This is area control.
EG, commander decides to go for spot #1 and with it he cant stop aliens from having the 2nd hive. But with smart thinking and tactics they overcome their Expandable hive. And win the day.
I like the idea of deployable hives, some way of mixing up the way a map plays.
Eliminating hives from the game would suck a lot of strategic goals and therefore strategy straight out of the game, and also eliminate a lot of the look, feel and atmosphere.
So here's a thought: deployable hives would need a lot of room, so are restricted to certain areas on a map. Instead, try this:
I would like to see what would happen if Aliens simply had one more potential hive location than they needed? Thus mapping for NS is not totally buggered, and it essentially works like the deployable hive in that marines have to guess where the aliens will come from.
Another interesting idea would be if marine nozzles provided 2 things: res and power. Power is for research and upgrades, res is for buildings and equipment. Maybe marines can research with only res but it is much slower. Power is needed in constant supply to run research in real-time; as power income slows, research that is underway slows, until with only the start node, it is basically stalled. Maybe every other nozzle on the map has a higher power output.
OTOH, maybe power is needed for marine buildings to be "active" and therefore sets the maximum number of buildings ( ala C&C ) OR perhaps the marines need to exceed a certain power threshhold to build certain high-tech buildings (as has already been suggested), or any combination of the above, for eg, power is needed for research but high tech buildings also drain it, so that to build proto lab AND THEN research JP takes much more map control than upgrading LMGs and armour, but advanced armoury only takes a little more map control than basic upgrades.
a fourth hive location would be a much more viable idea. one that could be fairly easily implemented
its a shame that this thread went nowhere... sigh.
i think it was the quality (probably maturity) of players in 1.04 that made it fun. and most rounds experienced players went alien and one went marine to comm. and with that huge fire blast in the marine screen, hitting a skulk was a huge challenge. webs seemed to be a larger part of 1.04 as well. hives were hives and were webbed like crazy and had ocs and dcs everywhere.
ns has gained a lot of players since 1.04
--->edit<---
i have an idea: how about the PT itself is the advanced armory and you can only have the one. it would be in the centermost position of the map (between hives and ms).
possible addition: give the marines only ONE command chair (that chair being the starting placement) which would force the marines to have map control in almost the same way as the aliens. assuming that two hives are equivalent to having advanced armory room and marine start.
Comments
Been away for awhile and I see there are a few interesting things brewing...
Did someone suggest a the idea of a buildable hive (which allows spawns) at any location on the map? I think that sounds very interesting and it could be a very dynamic gameplay model... this is my first impression of how I think it could work;
[QUOTE]<b>Basic Concept - <u>Hives Model</b></u>
- Aliens are allowed a maximum of 3 hives.
- The Main Hive (or Mother Hive) cannot be destroyed (like the CC)
- The 2 other hives can be built anywhere on the map (Expandable Hives)
- Evolutions and abilities <b><i>are</i></b> linked to hives*
- Chambers <b><i>are not</i></b> linked to Hives
*<i>I know this is kind of going back to the 1.04 Hive system but bear with me</i>[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]<b>Concept - <u>Expandable Hives</b></u>
- Aliens can spawn from expandable hives
- Expandable hives are weaker then the mother hive (slightly slower heal rate and lesser cost?)
- Expandable hives can only be built outside of a min. distance from Mother Hive*
- Expandable hives has a min. space requirement (no hives in hallway/small rooms)
*<i>Cannot have 3 hives healing each other :o</i>
<u><b>Impact?</b></u>
- No predefined hive locations (less predictablility, more strategic options)
- Expandable Hives can be built as a forward base, a resource base in a resource rich area, or to hold strategic areas[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]<b>Basic Concept - <u>Unlinking Chambers to Hives</u></b>
- Gorges can build any chamber any time
- Aliens will only be allowed to get 1-of-3 chamber upgrades per hive (2 hives: 2-of-3 upgrades / 3 hives: 3-of-3 upgrades)
<b><u>Impact?</u></b>
- Aliens can employ mixed upgrade tactics before 2+ hives
- No chamber order means greater flexability and adaptability[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]<b>Basic Concept - <u>Linking Evolutions and Abilities to Hives</u></b>
- 1 Hive: Skulks, Gorges, and Lerks / 2 Hives: Fades / 3 Hives: Onos
- Abilities linked to hives (same as always)[/QUOTE]
<b><u>Impact?</u></b><i>
- Some people might really be displeased with this suggestion but I think <b>deployable spawn points</b> [i]and</i> <b>chambers unlinked from hives</b> are both significant advances. Evolutions at any hive seems a little overpowered with idea idea (<i>but you tell me, think it would work with evos unlinked to hives?</i>) [/quote]
My initial impression of this system is that it is a compromise between completely doing away a system with a 3 Hive Structure and giving aliens more tactical and strategic flexibility.
I think the main impact of deployable hive system as opposed to the current hive system is that the aliens are now in control of what territory they want to take. In all the other versions the territory aliens [i]required[/b] is predefined by the map. By allowing aliens to pick where they want a 2nd/3rd spawn area (balanced by the marine ability to relocate ips or to build forward bases?), this drastically alters the marine approach to wiping the aliens out. Things change when you don't know the enemy can come from 1-of-3 places.
This suggestion is by no means perfect and as always feel free to open up.
The gameplay I envision is a fight for resources where mini-hives and tfac/sieges/turrets are built, fought over and destroyed in the struggle for terrritory, resources, and ultimately, access to each others MS. (They both know where each others MS is, but where are the PGs and mini-hives?) Major tweaks required? Probably. Costs would have to be adjusted.
Use your imagination if you see something in it, tell me what you think. Whomever suggested it, I don't quite recall, I think it is a fair compromise of ideas with interesting strategic possibilities.
I think it preserves the action in the FPS while expanding strategic depth in the RTS.
Discussibate. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
EDiT <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wish this would be done 100%
I agree 100% with everything.
And TBH maps should be way larger, with important locations that could give favors, EG infest idea/power nozzle. When infest or Power nozzle is built at LOCation it would grant eg powers over area. EG lights shutting/turning on. This is diff from welding because these can be rebuilt destroyed and rebuilt again. This is area control.
EG, commander decides to go for spot #1 and with it he cant stop aliens from having the 2nd hive. But with smart thinking and tactics they overcome their Expandable hive. And win the day.
Eliminating hives from the game would suck a lot of strategic goals and therefore strategy straight out of the game, and also eliminate a lot of the look, feel and atmosphere.
So here's a thought: deployable hives would need a lot of room, so are restricted to certain areas on a map. Instead, try this:
I would like to see what would happen if Aliens simply had one more potential hive location than they needed? Thus mapping for NS is not totally buggered, and it essentially works like the deployable hive in that marines have to guess where the aliens will come from.
Another interesting idea would be if marine nozzles provided 2 things: res and power. Power is for research and upgrades, res is for buildings and equipment. Maybe marines can research with only res but it is much slower. Power is needed in constant supply to run research in real-time; as power income slows, research that is underway slows, until with only the start node, it is basically stalled. Maybe every other nozzle on the map has a higher power output.
OTOH, maybe power is needed for marine buildings to be "active" and therefore sets the maximum number of buildings ( ala C&C ) OR perhaps the marines need to exceed a certain power threshhold to build certain high-tech buildings (as has already been suggested), or any combination of the above, for eg, power is needed for research but high tech buildings also drain it, so that to build proto lab AND THEN research JP takes much more map control than upgrading LMGs and armour, but advanced armoury only takes a little more map control than basic upgrades.
one that could be fairly easily implemented
its a shame that this thread went nowhere... sigh.
i think it was the quality (probably maturity) of players in 1.04 that made it fun.
and most rounds experienced players went alien and one went marine to comm. and with that huge fire blast in the marine screen, hitting a skulk was a huge challenge. webs seemed to be a larger part of 1.04 as well. hives were hives and were webbed like crazy and had ocs and dcs everywhere.
ns has gained a lot of players since 1.04
--->edit<---
i have an idea:
how about the PT itself is the advanced armory and you can only have the one. it would be in the centermost position of the map (between hives and ms).
possible addition:
give the marines only ONE command chair (that chair being the starting placement) which would force the marines to have map control in almost the same way as the aliens. assuming that two hives are equivalent to having advanced armory room and marine start.