Skill Stacking Vs F4

Stakhanov · February 2004

<div class="IPBDescription">Is one more justifiable than the other ?</div> This kind of occurance is growing more common each day , regulars fed up of playing with noobs stacking a team and victimizing their clueless opponents , who tend to answer by leaving the game. Often resulting in bans.

Despite my elitist point of view , I hate the mentality of regulars considering their unskilled opponents as cannon fodder. You know , having to respawn without scoring a single hit all the time , being knifed with the RTs you're trying to defend , and seeing your hive destroyed by lmgers running on carpets of medpacks isn't an enjoyable gaming experience.

Large scale skill stacking has the same effect as raging , completely ruining the other player's game - and their day. In that case , F4 is a very legitimate reaction imo , thoses complaining basically wanted to spawnkill more and finish the hive with their knife.

People who can't stand the lack of teamwork in pub games , should just play Combat or pick up games / clan matches , nothing else.

GreenRecon · February 2004

If you have that occuring, just find another server and encourage others to do the same. The stackers will have less fun when there is no one in the server to play against.

StGeorge · February 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Stakhanov @ Feb 26 2004, 07:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> victimizing their clueless opponents , who tend to answer by leaving the game. Often resulting in bans.
 </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
NS is the only game where leaving the game would be grounds to ban someone

Stakhanov · February 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (GreenRecon @ Feb 27 2004, 01:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> If you have that occuring, just find another server and encourage others to do the same. The stackers will have less fun when there is no one in the server to play against.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
I don't think you understood what I meant... I experienced this in the best french NS server , playing with my friends. They were tired of playing with newbies so they stacked the marine team and left me and 2 other competent players on the alien team. Their good will didn't help much when facing clan level play...

The stackers are regulars / veterans , but they came to despise newcomers so much they don't care about gaming ethics anymore. This can happen anywhere , even on your favorite server.

Swift_Idiot · February 2004

<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>Skill stacking destroys more games than F4.

If you don't like to see people F4ing, minimize the reasons people F4. Stupid.

On the other side of the coin... It might be nice if clueless players would come to the forums to learn, instead of trying to learn by just playing the game.

NS is complicated. Oh no!</span>

Shrike · February 2004

I agree--I think that clan level play should be saved for the scrims and practices and public servers should be just be fun. Teamstacks aren't fun so it makes sense that people leave/F4. If the server bans for F4, but lets teamstacking happen, then IMO its not worth playing on anyway. There's enough NS servers out there that these kinds of servers will lose popularity over time.

And a lot of the time, regulars teamstack cause they just want to play with their buddies and play a decent match.. there's not much that can be done about this except getting them involved in more organized NS play...

Renegade. · February 2004

Happens all the time. My same-case scenario is on the {LoC} server, where many a game will have its top or bottom half of the scoreboard dominated by {LoC}. My advice, if the admins are doing then there's no hope for that server, if players/regs are doing it, speak to the admins. If all else fails go to a reputable server governed by veteran admins such as voogru or bean.net.

LittleToe · February 2004

i dont mind stackage as long as the teams are even. its a fight where even minor victorys are worthy of selebration even knowing the game is lost. not to mention playing aganst better players will make you a better player.
the problem is not all are like me. some complain, some leave. they can complain ill just mute them and if they leave thats fine to, i dont want to play with someone that is unwilling to play just because we are loseing.
but if the other team is unwilling to fix the teams after thouse that are unwilling to fight leave i will f4. it is compleatly pointless to continue when the teams are so uneven that we are unable to put up a fight.
if the other team is unwilling to fix the teams and they are rude about it i will leave. i did nothing to them. if fact i did them a favor for not trying to jump on the same team as them.
if you are staking against truely noob players i have to ask what is the point of playing?
if you take a little time and help the new players...

tedor · February 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (LittleToe @ Feb 26 2004, 09:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> i dont mind stackage as long as the teams are even.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
what

Asal_The_Unforgiving · February 2004

I do not mind stacking, so long as it is not constant. After a game, it gets boring gunning down skulk after skulk. If it occurs over and over, I will leave the server. Simple as that. F4'ing.......That drives me nuts. You abandon your friends to death, and I have seen more than one game where one of those marines who F4'ed had been there, it could have come out differently. But no. Some people feel the need to give up before the fight is lost. I refuse to F4, through whatever spawn-camping, IP-devouring, blockading, hive-seiging.....It doesn't matter. I'm there for my team, whatever good that does. I hope you are too. I fully intend to run it by the owners of the servers I admin to see if I may kick F4'ers.

Soberana · February 2004

THE ANSWER TO THIS IS..

<span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>"GET SOME SKILL"</span>

uberbroke · February 2004

Yeah, I see that happening lately too. But then, hey, it's nice getting your rear handed to you on a silver platter once in a while.

Just not ALL the time.

Soberana · February 2004

BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP!

ZiGGY · February 2004

team stacking bad yes, not many good uk players, play uk, uk no good which is good, alternatively play us us same as uk.

Or... wait about a month or two and start playing on <a href='http://www.thehavennet.org.uk' target='_blank'>thehaven</a> (were trying to cleanse the intruders atm D:)

Licho · February 2004

Team stacking occurs on any server with regurals..
Im using plugin that simply prevents everyone from joining team and then throws everyone into game at once... completely random teams are best if you want to play balanced fun games..

Buggy · February 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Licho @ Feb 27 2004, 07:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Team stacking occurs on any server with regurals..
Im using plugin that simply prevents everyone from joining team and then throws everyone into game at once... completely random teams are best if you want to play balanced fun games..  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
I concur. Big fan of amx_execall autoassign myself ...
It doesnt guarantee fair games, but at least one team isnt gonna think they werent given a fair chance.

Delphi · February 2004

A plugin for Adminmod "NS Random Team" has been availible since early in the 1.04 days. If you're that concerned about "skill stacking", find a server (Or better yet, make your own) with it on.

Otherwise, you have no reason to complain. Stacking happens. Deal. Don't come crying to the forums every time you get obliterated in a <i>VIDEO GAME</i>

Norml_E_High · February 2004

Eh, I see this happening alot too, but I also see people whining about team stacking when there are more people with icons next to their name than the other team. Alot of the time the only thing that happened is alot of people try to get on marines and everyone else just joins the team with less people. Even when people go random (random right, more like auto balance), they end up all on one team, because the people who would most likely whine about stacking all try to get on one team. Theres nothing you can really do about this, just find another server.

Keyser · February 2004

Changed to a constructive response on Asal's request.

Asal_The_Unforgiving · February 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Keyser59 @ Feb 27 2004, 10:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Soberana @ Feb 26 2004, 10:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>"GET SOME SKILL"</span> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Or programs that aim for you.

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' />  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
This coming from a veteran, even as a joke, I do not approve of. Would you please change that to a constructive response?

As for my own constructive response, none of you seem to disagree with F4'ing. Why not?

OG17 · February 2004

Why so? If a game is unwinnable, one should move on instead of wasting time seeing it to its conclusion. That's the entire idea behind forfeit. Better a loss and a new game than a loss, a new game, and twenty minutes gone. Only problem is in that people disagree on what makes a game unwinnable.

Heck of a lot different than arranging unbalanced teams.

meatball · February 2004

f4 is bad for you m'kay...
it simply ruins gameplay but so does skill stacking....

Jabba_The_Hunt · February 2004

Yeah, i've only ever F4'ed twice in my life, once they were just spawn killing for atleast 5mins and well we obviously didn't want to stay around, another time the marines were stacked 6 to 3 and just turrent farmed the whole map, and then decided to slowly attack us, taking a little more ground at a time, well I was gonna quit anyway but for some reason (im still not sure why) I F4'ed in stead.

cabbit · February 2004

It's nice to play on the same team as your clan buddies (never been in an NS clan, but same rules apply for DoD, I guess) and I know that where to draw the line on stacking is a tough call... even 2 clanmates on the same team, if they're good, can make a heck of a difference. Call me n00bie, but I don't approve of major stacks where all the tagged or icon-ed players wind up on the same team because they don't want to put up with NSPlayer (who can rtfm all they like, it's not going to help them be 'good'). Is it really a gg? Assuming you're not playing on some uber-clan's territory, why should less skilled players find a different server because people (vets usually) pile onto the same team? When it's so unbalanced it really does suck the enjoyment out of the game. Better to forfeit and start over than waste time on a game that's (obviously) lost and just going to let people get all horny over racking up a massive score by gunning down 1 hive skulks. That being said, I think I've only ever f4-ed once, when severe lameness was going on (building pg through a weldable door to siege the hive on ns_lost). I'd rather quit the server, providing it won't result in an automatic forfeit, and try again later.

There's no way to really stop stacking, I guess.. there used to be a plugin that listed all players under one big team so you could never tell who was marine or alien (unless you watched the death messages). It was annoying if you just wanted to play on the same team with a couple of familiar faces, but at least it reduced the stackage issue while still letting you choose a team. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

Savant · February 2004

I don't see ANY problem with F4 at all. A team that hits F4 is resigning, and there is <b>no shame </b>in resigning. Resignation is a key aspect of chess, and chess takes way more 'brains' than NS ever could.

People seem to be bothered by the fact that the other team hitting F4 somehow ruins their 'fun'. What they seem to forget is that there are TWO teams on that server, what about the OTHER team's fun? Who says that they should have to stay and be the 'whipping boy' in a game that they know they have no chance of winning and will die repeatedly for your 'fun'...?

Until such time as the game becomes more balanced I actually encourage people to F4. Playing a lost game is a waste of everyone's time and serves no purposes from a testing perspective.

Regards,

Savant

Manos · February 2004

Tbh skill stacking is not cool @ all. Its not fun for the vet team nor is it for the newbie team. skill stacking is a primary condition for a boring bad game.

Best games are always the ones with very fair teams.

thats why i play on servers with a auto assign team plug-in.

Birdy · February 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mano-waR @ Feb 28 2004, 05:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Tbh skill stacking is not cool @ all. Its not fun for the vet team nor is it for the newbie team. skill stacking is a primary condition for a boring bad game.

Best games are always the ones with very fair teams.

thats why i play on servers with a auto assign team plug-in.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Actually, I'm having alot of fun stacking with people that are good so why bother playing with NSPlayers.

Doobie_Dan · February 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (@nthony @ Feb 26 2004, 09:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Happens all the time. My same-case scenario is on the {LoC} server, where many a game will have its top or bottom half of the scoreboard dominated by {LoC}. My advice, if the admins are doing then there's no hope for that server, if players/regs are doing it, speak to the admins. If all else fails go to a reputable server governed by veteran admins such as voogru or bean.net.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
I think LoC is a lot better than it used to be. When I first played there, it was 6 LoC on one team and 0 on the other. These days the admins are more active and the teams are usually fairly balanced. Besides, some of the non-clan regulars are better than anybody in the clan <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

Try playing on Texas [HK], or other servers with forced random team, even when no admins are present. It'll result in a better game (especially these days where everyone tends to stack marines for some reason).

ViolenceJack · February 2004

There is nothing in the slightest wrong with F4ing, i do it all the time. when teams are really inbalanced and i know if i leave its gonner be over i just mention the fact and then F4.

The only thing u can consider wrong with F4ing is just so u can slaughter some ppl that dont have a chance. Why not just get a server that has like bots on one side players on the other. There are the ones that say they take the satisfaction away of winning but if they F4 (give up) then u still get the satisfaction of winning. The only point is so u can get easy kills and get a high kill count or somin and then start showing ur kills off to some one cos u sat at the IP killing them as they spawned.

banning for F4ing is ridiculous. what next, banning cos u left the server.

Daxx · February 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Doobie Dan @ Feb 28 2004, 11:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (@nthony @ Feb 26 2004, 09:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Happens all the time. My same-case scenario is on the {LoC} server, where many a game will have its top or bottom half of the scoreboard dominated by {LoC}. My advice, if the admins are doing then there's no hope for that server, if players/regs are doing it, speak to the admins. If all else fails go to a reputable server governed by veteran admins such as voogru or bean.net. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
I think LoC is a lot better than it used to be. When I first played there, it was 6 LoC on one team and 0 on the other. These days the admins are more active and the teams are usually fairly balanced. Besides, some of the non-clan regulars are better than anybody in the clan <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />
 </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Ahh, soo true <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>Assault Mech sucks! =)</span>

chuzwozza · March 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Asal The Unforgiving @ Feb 27 2004, 10:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> This coming from a veteran, even as a joke, I do not approve of. Would you please change that to a constructive response?

As for my own constructive response, none of you seem to disagree with F4'ing. Why not?  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
I have NEVER f4'd in my life - don't ask me why, just seems too much like quitting! Tbh, I kinda like the ultimate challenge provided by 6/7/8 helpless lmg rines spawning into a uber-webbed, multi-oc'd/sc'd base with two onos ready to stomp and stun, two lerks sporing and skulks nibbling at the heels like the eager war-dogs of yore! Its like when you first played Q3 Arena and bumped the difficulty level all the way up and played against the best bots JUST to see how many kills you could get to your 400 deaths/minute!
If you have this happening, the base isn't going to last long anyways, so sit back, wait for your "REIN" to go blue and lmg that onos some more, coz I tell you, NOTHING is funnier than killing an onos or fade or lerk that's been spawn camping for 10 minutes, slowly munching away your base - I mean, how bad does that look to all his teammates?!?!??! He can't even defend himself against rines that are webbed, stomped, spored, oc'd, bitten, clawed, acid rocketed, devoured or spitgunned! I hate f4'ing, but what I REALLY hate is when so many of your teammates f4 that you have less than half the other sides numbers and they win! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /> What about the guys like me who wanna carry on fighting, even if it's 3 lmgers on 12 onos??!??! Its not like we'll last long anyway and people will respect you for not f4ing.

Anyway, that's my two-res worth.

Chuz

Skill Stacking Vs F4

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