Marine Wins Rare
Melatonin
Babbler Join Date: 2003-03-15 Member: 14551Members, Constellation
Babbler Join Date: 2003-03-15 Member: 14551Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">competative play</div> title says it all really.
in a 6 on 6 competative play type game, marines basically have 3 to 4 mins to either kill the first hive, reach a level of tech capable of killing 2 hive fades.
when fades appear at the 4 min mark, your team needs to be significantly more skilled to do anything.
rather than suggest nerfs for aliens (although fade cost seems the easiest solution) maybe we should think of beefing up the marines a little?
thoughts?
in a 6 on 6 competative play type game, marines basically have 3 to 4 mins to either kill the first hive, reach a level of tech capable of killing 2 hive fades.
when fades appear at the 4 min mark, your team needs to be significantly more skilled to do anything.
rather than suggest nerfs for aliens (although fade cost seems the easiest solution) maybe we should think of beefing up the marines a little?
thoughts?
Comments
But I think the only way of fixing this is by makeing competative play 8 vs 8? Usually marines are stronger in bigger games, but mabie even too strong.
But honestly, I think marines lose in competetive games due to poor strats, just give people more time to adjust we will start to see more and more marine wins.
The other day I had a marine tie against eR, boy that was pretty fun.
The problem of fade balance is a constant argument. I don't think that hive1 fades are too strong. Having said that, playing the mid-game in NS mode feels like stacking a house of cards. Once the conflict begins, it takes almost no time to decide which side is more prepared. The house of cards falls and after that its basically over... People start camping their own spawn, ignoring the comm, ignoring res nodes, hitting F4, etc...
Thats why Marines HAVE to be ready when fades and hive2 abilities start showing, or at least they have to be ready to take one of those hives down. Marines have to gather strength to take the offensive before these threats emerge. Of course you can hope the alien team lacks skill/coordination but that usual isn't a good assumption...
-stooopid
That is because of the resource system. In larger games, alien players gain res significatly slower because its divided evenly among them.
This results in gorges lacking the res to build and early evolutions appear later in general and the loss is higher because it will take more time to get enough res again, while marines keep their upgrades once theiy are researched.
Thus, alien teams get more and more handicapped the more players enter the team.
a good marine team vs a good alien team = marines win. (not 100 % acc)
a bad marine team vs a bad alien team = aliens win. (not 100 % acc)
this is mainly because when a good marine team take down the alien rts and 2nd hive they have basicly won. This needs much teamwork and control tho, and some clans lack this teamwork, control and induvidual skill. When you get to a certain point of skill and teamplay level you will notice that its much easier to win as marine then as alien. Atleast this is the case in europe.
Esp. now that sensory chambers can be used first, gives aliens a whole new game
The few rounds we lose (in ktdm) are usually alien rounds. Might be us just being better
marines than aliens, though.
I agree. I always see 12-man servers as "empty."
Hence I always play on voogru or G4B2S where there's almost always 24 people.
That is because of the resource system. In larger games, alien players gain res significatly slower because its divided evenly among them.
This results in gorges lacking the res to build and early evolutions appear later in general and the loss is higher because it will take more time to get enough res again, while marines keep their upgrades once theiy are researched.
Thus, alien teams get more and more handicapped the more players enter the team. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I really wondered if i should take this as advice or an insult lol.
like.....duh! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I just wondered since the marines can't seem to keep up with the aliens, since they get fades a tad too early.
Em well the FAQ states that Ns should be played with 6v6 players, although the FAQ is a tad out of date <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What are the essential competitive rules at least?
Here are the basics, as the NS team designed the game for:
1. Tournament mode on (mp_tournamentmode 1)
2. Teams of six (6v6). Each side plays both alien and marine at least once.
3. Play happens on official maps, on any that are widely considered to be balanced (ns_eclipse, ns_caged, ns_tanith, etc.)
4. No plug-ins or add-ons should be required.
5. Console access disabled, and all tweaks allowed are in the out of game interface.
6. Use of VALVe Anti-Cheat (VAC) or Cheating-Death (CD) whenever possible<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Instead of increasing fade cost(since the fade isnt as good as people think I do like it though) I think more res shold go to the gorgs, so less res will be going to the res ****.
Oh and I do think fades are a bit too overpowered for 50 res, but other than that 3.0b3 is pretty close to being balanced for both sides.
Early fades dying is a waste of res, but most res **** think they can just do hit and run tactics, so when their hive RT starts being attacked they either die, or what happens commonly is they let it die.
So as a commander when I see 3 minute fades I will automatically put pressure on their main hive.
Its really not an idiotproof win in competition afaik. Only if the Aliens add teamworkhax like Skulks to support the Fade could you start arguing that marines have a hard time, and that yes 4 minutes to that mark might be a tad short.
very smart... I like...
I presume you would have different policy toward me, however, because I like to use my early res to go fade to take down ungaurded but electrified res nodes... I immediately flee if 'rines show up... anyway...
Early fades dying is a waste of res, but most res **** think they can just do hit and run tactics, so when their hive RT starts being attacked they either die, or what happens commonly is they let it die.
So as a commander when I see 3 minute fades I will automatically put pressure on their main hive. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, imo, cara fades are overpowered somewhat, and fades in general are extremely overpowered in combat.
tbh I dont think HA seems as strong as it was, certainly not in combat, maybe a slight reduction in strength and a big reduction in research/production cost for HA?
CS is 5v5,
furthermore,
from what I've noticed in competetive play each additional player marines get in competetive play (marines who can aim good) the marine's become almost <b>exponentially</b> stronger.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hmm, i just read a post from a top player a few days ago saying marines were way overpowered <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I used to think this, but not anymore, aliens have <b>plenty</b> of advantages to use on marines...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->marine wins are rare because marines actually have to do something in order to win. If both sides just sit back and tech aliens will win. This is imo what makes NS such a great game marines have a big advantage at the start but as the aliens infestation grows things become harder and harder on marines. If marines fail to stop the alien expansion (ie taking down a hive or killing fades) then the aliens will overwelm them.
Oh and I do think fades are a bit too overpowered for 50 res, but other than that 3.0b3 is pretty close to being balanced for both sides. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with this.
Marines must be very agressive early on and must succeed at doing so.
3.0 so far carries this concept very well and 3.0 is easily the most balanced version of NS, ever.
Fades may seem overpowered now, but I don't think they are. Once people start learning how to aim at the new fades it won't be long before they get chewed up like they were at the end of 2.01 in scrims.
Fade = 50res = 5 shotguns.
How is that overpowered for 50 res?
On a 6v6 match the comm can give a shottie to EVERY marine for the cost of a fade.
Exactly. Thats why you clanners(6v6) see overpowered aliens (or now as you may claim 'balanced'), while us pubbers(10+ v 10+) see waaay over powered marines. In small pubs (6v6 <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->), aliens completely demolish marines.Thats one of the main reasons why the two 'sides' have disagreements over balance. The strive for 'balance' has b0rked the pub games.
Seriously guys, is it so hard to get 1 or 2 more guys on your team?