Improving Ns Skulks
Licho
Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 3858Members, NS1 Playtester
Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 3858Members, NS1 Playtester
<div class="IPBDescription">why I think it's needed</div> I know that skulks are usually doing well enough in clan play when they pack and ambush together, but I wan't to speak about pubs, as pub games are by far most common..
Some observation:
- it takes only split of second of aimed lmg fire to kill a skulk
- marine has high chances to kill skulk even in close situation after being ambushed (dramatic with lvl2 armor upgrades when skulks need 4 bites to kill marine)
- even good skulk has troubles killing good marine
- there is no chance to 1v1 kill marines in certain situations with skulk (to kill marines camping good places takes a lot of skulks)
- good marine can easily make his way close to hive and camp some long hallway
- skulks almost never use upgrades, because they are too costly compared to benefits of saving and going fade
- two and three hive skulks are not usefull enough (mainly because people dont use ostly upgrades)
- for newbie player being skulk is very frustrating experience (usually ending in score like 1/14), you must know map/game to be able to score
- if early game is showing equal number of marine/alien kills it's usually alien "skill stack" and aliens are going to win. Typical game has more marine kills
As a consequence skulk gameplay is hard in normal NS pub and often frustrating (when dealing with good marines on maps like veil or eclipse or high-tech marines). It's more frustrating than gameplay of normal marine against high-tech aliens.
Some historical references:
- although in 1.04 clan play there were situations when rines simply rushed hive with SG/mines, many pub games also ended with early skulk rushes (not possible now unless rines are relocating)
- marines had hard time expanding and killing good skulks
Reasons skulks were better in older versions:
- skulks had more armor and a bit buggy hitboxes making them more likely to survive even head on attack
- skulks actually used upgrades (ie. carapace)
- hivesight showed marines seen by other aliens allowing more efficient attacks of alien reinforcements incoming to ongoing battle
- MT was more expensive and marines didnt invest massively to upgrades and instead teched to jets or ha
Ways to help situation now:
- increase skulk armor/hp for normal NS
- reduce costs of chamber upgrades ( i think they should be 0) and perhaps even evolution time - this will promote use of upgrades making skulks more effective in real games and promoting use of different chambers
- increseas effectivity of leap and xenocide
- possibly bigger bonus with more hives allowing high-tech skulks to survive even longer
- turn on old hivesignt system showing marines seen by other aliens
- increase cost/time of marine upgrades (this would require increasing fade cost as well to compensate)
If I had to pick one way to help solve situation I would choose reducing cost of alien upgrades .. preferably to 0. It would really help gameplay and make it more interesting for skulks (really using silence, cloak, celerity, whatever .. )
Some observation:
- it takes only split of second of aimed lmg fire to kill a skulk
- marine has high chances to kill skulk even in close situation after being ambushed (dramatic with lvl2 armor upgrades when skulks need 4 bites to kill marine)
- even good skulk has troubles killing good marine
- there is no chance to 1v1 kill marines in certain situations with skulk (to kill marines camping good places takes a lot of skulks)
- good marine can easily make his way close to hive and camp some long hallway
- skulks almost never use upgrades, because they are too costly compared to benefits of saving and going fade
- two and three hive skulks are not usefull enough (mainly because people dont use ostly upgrades)
- for newbie player being skulk is very frustrating experience (usually ending in score like 1/14), you must know map/game to be able to score
- if early game is showing equal number of marine/alien kills it's usually alien "skill stack" and aliens are going to win. Typical game has more marine kills
As a consequence skulk gameplay is hard in normal NS pub and often frustrating (when dealing with good marines on maps like veil or eclipse or high-tech marines). It's more frustrating than gameplay of normal marine against high-tech aliens.
Some historical references:
- although in 1.04 clan play there were situations when rines simply rushed hive with SG/mines, many pub games also ended with early skulk rushes (not possible now unless rines are relocating)
- marines had hard time expanding and killing good skulks
Reasons skulks were better in older versions:
- skulks had more armor and a bit buggy hitboxes making them more likely to survive even head on attack
- skulks actually used upgrades (ie. carapace)
- hivesight showed marines seen by other aliens allowing more efficient attacks of alien reinforcements incoming to ongoing battle
- MT was more expensive and marines didnt invest massively to upgrades and instead teched to jets or ha
Ways to help situation now:
- increase skulk armor/hp for normal NS
- reduce costs of chamber upgrades ( i think they should be 0) and perhaps even evolution time - this will promote use of upgrades making skulks more effective in real games and promoting use of different chambers
- increseas effectivity of leap and xenocide
- possibly bigger bonus with more hives allowing high-tech skulks to survive even longer
- turn on old hivesignt system showing marines seen by other aliens
- increase cost/time of marine upgrades (this would require increasing fade cost as well to compensate)
If I had to pick one way to help solve situation I would choose reducing cost of alien upgrades .. preferably to 0. It would really help gameplay and make it more interesting for skulks (really using silence, cloak, celerity, whatever .. )
Comments
It makes it that much harder for aliens to take/hold ground early game, especially if marines get armour 1 asap - both sides can kill an equal amount of players, but marines will have the edge.
You could argue that aliens are faster and thus should die more often, but is it real argument? Marines have PG's and aliens must often wait and ambush.. so I think game could be made balanced with equal number of kills on both sides.
Skulks must be in group...and rines roam freely around map.. Very stupid imo..
Original manual said marines must work as team and aliens are individual hunters, old version did work this way.. .but now.. its upside down :-)
I feel like a hunter with my almighty lmg making my way to hive and annoying them killing say 10 skulks before dying..
While as alien I feel like a punny defender hiding in a corner and not hunter, I feel like cute little puppy waiting for machine-gunner to kill me :-)
- make ips more expensive overall
- ips more expensive depending on the number you have (for example 20 for first, 25 for second)
- slow down the rate at which people can go through the PG. Forlorn brought this up in another thread, and I think it's a good point; marines can squeeze themselves through a PG really quickly.
Or you could have it so that aliens spawn two at a time with one hive, three with two hives and four with three hives (or something like that). In other words, 1 + <i>n </i>people respawning, where <i>n </i>is number of hives. I don't mind, but it's frustrating to see both sides take heavy casualties over double res, and the marines to recover much more quickly than the aliens.
I'm not saying that skulks aren't weak in pubs (they are), I'm just tying this issue in with yours.
<!--QuoteBegin-Licho+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Licho)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I feel like a hunter with my almighty lmg making my way to hive and annoying them killing say 10 skulks before dying...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You were on YO yesterday, right? If you were, you were definately the hunter when you set up shop outside generator...poor skulks. They only wanted to get to shipping.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You were on YO yesterday, right? If you were, you were definately the hunter when you set up shop outside generator...poor skulks. They only wanted to get to shipping.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes that was me, I play on YO regularly, LcZ.Licho.. only true hunters left in NS are now lmg/la rines and fades :-)
I know that being skulk myself I could do no better unless being in 3+ pack ..
You will most likely get flamed but I like you think 1.4 should come back but balanced....and I also agree skulks have become the hunted instead of the evil aliens they should be, 3 bites at armor 1 is ever so hard to do when the marine is jumping around like the drunk he is specially if he has the accursed hallway advantage.
In 1.04 skulks took 9 bullets and had huge hitboxes. Incredibly easy to kill. The only redeeming factor of 1.04 was that carapace gave skulks 100% more life, so it took somewhere around 18-22 bullets to kill them.
In 2.01 skulks took 11 bullets and had huge hitboxes. LMG's were made more accurate to compensate, but overall skulks were still easy to kill but not retardedly weak as in 1.04.
In 3.00, skulk's hitbboxes are smaller than your spread, take only 9 bullets, and now fit better around courners and have become the best ambushers they ever were.
Regardless of how skulks are stronger in today's game than they ever were, I still believe that skulks deserve some kinds of boosts (for different reasons than the one's you mentioned).
- Skulk hp should be raised to 75/10
- Upgrading a skulk should only cost 1 res, gorge and lerks cost 2 res, fades and onos cost 3 res.
- Evolving to another lifeform removes all of your upgrades.
Also dispite how 'easy' it is to kill skulks, aliens still win the majority of their games.
Isn't that down to the power of the fades? From what I've seen in pubs, if the fade(s) can't hold the marines back, the marines push the aliens all the way back into their hive.
These are real figures about bullets in 1.04:
lmg:
0 carapace: 9
1 carapace: 12
2 carapace: 14
3 carapace: 19
gun upgrades vs. carapaced skulk:
no upgrade: 19
1. upgrade: 16
2. upgrade: 15
3. upgrade: 14
In 2.01 skulks were weaker because people learned carapaced is not worth it (no such big bonus, only 48% bonus in 2.0) and in 3.0 are even more weak (fixed hiboxes, even though they are smaller people see them and can aim more easy). Carapace has no such effect now because there is almost no armor on skulks..
Also come some day to YO or other server with good players and good comms, tehre majority of games win marines, without any doubt, just go play there.. If they win it's only because of awesome fades, not because of skulks who loose everything.
And what snidely said about skulks and fades is correct, currently skulks only slow down marines and sometimes loose everything except main hive, while fades usually fight back. As it is now, skulks are too weak and fades too strong.
That's because most of the pub comms SUCKS, and the fact that ppl have a hard time to kill early fades, skulks are too weak.
Back in the 1.x versions the hit boxes were horrible, and Aliens ruled the roost. Changes were made to the amount of damage marines did to try and compensate for the bad hit boxes. Widespread was the chant "OMG ONOS GG!" Part of that was because 1.x Onos (Oni, Onoses) were intended game enders, part of that was the hit boxes. Fast forward to 3.x. All the hit boxes are fixed but now, Onos (Oni, Onses) die like sheep and skulks are hardly a blip on MT once seen. I say this is becasue of all the tweaking done to the Marine damage. An effort was made to counter act the speed at which higher lifeforms die by increasing their armor/hit points. I say try reducing the base damage of marines to 1.04 levels when most bullets were missing their intended targets because of buggy hit boxes and bring down the insanely high life totals for onos and fade. The hit boxes are fixed, shouldn't the original damage levels and armor/hit point totals be sufficient?
Learn how to skulk. They are just fine now. A buff would ruin their purpose.
what we need is another evoluion that is extremly cheap and mirrors the skulk weapons.
Like an advanced skulk.
140hp 50armor with all the skulks attacks
this would preserve the skulk style of gameplay into late game as well as keeping early game with basic skulks balanced.
i would say about 5 res should do it. This would allow those who want to play skulk all game to do it and be effective. No matter what noobs will die. You cant stop that. But if what you really want is to keep late game skulks effective then this is the idea ns needs.
vote nightcrawler 4 prez
Some observation:
- it takes only split of second of aimed lmg fire to kill a skulk
- marine has high chances to kill skulk even in close situation after being ambushed (dramatic with lvl2 armor upgrades when skulks need 4 bites to kill marine)
- even good skulk has troubles killing good marine
- there is no chance to 1v1 kill marines in certain situations with skulk (to kill marines camping good places takes a lot of skulks)
- good marine can easily make his way close to hive and camp some long hallway
- skulks almost never use upgrades, because they are too costly compared to benefits of saving and going fade
- two and three hive skulks are not usefull enough (mainly because people dont use ostly upgrades)
- for newbie player being skulk is very frustrating experience (usually ending in score like 1/14), you must know map/game to be able to score
- if early game is showing equal number of marine/alien kills it's usually alien "skill stack" and aliens are going to win. Typical game has more marine kills
As a consequence skulk gameplay is hard in normal NS pub and often frustrating (when dealing with good marines on maps like veil or eclipse or high-tech marines). It's more frustrating than gameplay of normal marine against high-tech aliens.
Some historical references:
- although in 1.04 clan play there were situations when rines simply rushed hive with SG/mines, many pub games also ended with early skulk rushes (not possible now unless rines are relocating)
- marines had hard time expanding and killing good skulks
Reasons skulks were better in older versions:
- skulks had more armor and a bit buggy hitboxes making them more likely to survive even head on attack
- skulks actually used upgrades (ie. carapace)
- hivesight showed marines seen by other aliens allowing more efficient attacks of alien reinforcements incoming to ongoing battle
- MT was more expensive and marines didnt invest massively to upgrades and instead teched to jets or ha
Ways to help situation now:
- increase skulk armor/hp for normal NS
- reduce costs of chamber upgrades ( i think they should be 0) and perhaps even evolution time - this will promote use of upgrades making skulks more effective in real games and promoting use of different chambers
- increseas effectivity of leap and xenocide
- possibly bigger bonus with more hives allowing high-tech skulks to survive even longer
- turn on old hivesignt system showing marines seen by other aliens
- increase cost/time of marine upgrades (this would require increasing fade cost as well to compensate)
If I had to pick one way to help solve situation I would choose reducing cost of alien upgrades .. preferably to 0. It would really help gameplay and make it more interesting for skulks (really using silence, cloak, celerity, whatever .. ) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think overall, you're missing the big picture. Skulks are meant for <b>ambushing</b>, not rushing. Most games in public servers, Aliens take the victory. Personally, in clan play I have a much harder time taking out a marine than I do in public servers. Public servers, its not uncommon to get 5 consecutive kills, you just have to know how to bunny hop and keep on the target (although in 3.0, killing marines has been harder than in 2.0). Overall, skulk takes practice, and a 2nd hive Skulk is one of the most effective search-and-destroy units in the game by my opinion, as leap/bite with 2 upgrades can easily handle a marine.
Next time you play skulk, try climbing walls and get on the ceiling while the marine pumps out ammo at you, keep moving around. Rush him once he's wasted his ammo, and be sure to jump around to avoid pistol bullets, but stay on target to avoid being knifed. All it takes is LOTS of practice <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I do admit that people with superior aim on marines can kill even 3 skulks at a time, but you just have to work together to stay in a good place early on, and use higher evolutions to take out marines. Aliens are meant to be more fragile with their first hive, but getting a 2nd hive puts Aliens, including skulks, in the winning seat.
Weaken the fade a lot, even make him less expensive so the lower costs fit his reduced power and on the other side increase the skulk strength a little bit so they are able to face the marines and have a chance even on longturn.
The best idea for that is the "lower upgrade costs for skulks". While playing combat you will realize that a lvl 1 skulk has close to no chance vs a lvl 1 marine. He can just ambush him which is quite easy on the small combat maps but gets a lot more difficult on ns_maps - nearly impossible versus skilled marines.
But a skulk with just 1 upgrade can already face an lvl2 marine in a 1on1 and has good chances to win. With the marines getting more upgrades and better weapons he will of course be forced to ambush again but he will stay able to finish an ambush succesfully even if the marine has really a lot of upgrades. The big problem here is just that is better to save for a higher creature instead of taking a skulk upgrade, so nobody takes them and they never get used. All chamber strats are based on the requirements of the higher lifeforms, movement+defense chamber as they are best for oni and fades. Nobody would think to base his strategies on sensory chamber being the second or even the first chamber. For skulks the might be useful but who cares if an upgrade has any use for skulks?
Making it worth to upgrade a skulk would not only increase its strength but allowing teams to use tactics that are not based on going fade as fast as possible to take out all rine restowers without diing.
Next time you play skulk, try climbing walls and get on the ceiling while the marine pumps out ammo at you, keep moving around. Rush him once he's wasted his ammo, and be sure to jump around to avoid pistol bullets, but stay on target to avoid being knifed. All it takes is LOTS of practice <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I do admit that people with superior aim on marines can kill even 3 skulks at a time, but you just have to work together to stay in a good place early on, and use higher evolutions to take out marines. Aliens are meant to be more fragile with their first hive, but getting a 2nd hive puts Aliens, including skulks, in the winning seat. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Did you read my post properly? I have no real problem with aliens that must ambush, but even ambsuhing often fails and is very hard to do. If you are killing 5 rines in row, well they sux, no other explanation exists, decent marine can easilly kill several skulks, thats the problem.. If I want to annoy aliens I simply go to first hive early on and kill 10 skulks - it's very hard for aliens to stop such marine, even if they bhop like mad, run on ceiling and try to ambush..
I just came from YO where marines were wininng game after game with first in table having scores like 36/4 against skulks (fades died easy too after rines ruled map and teched) .. even with randomized teams this just happens! No need to explain me how to skulk, I know it, im playing this game since beginning... Good rine can shoot you from the air with pistol no matter how you jump, its just easy, aim and shoot...
As Atlan said, skulks are too weak, fades too strong.. And skulk upgrades not worth the res (this helps skulks to be weak)
These are real figures about bullets in 1.04:
lmg:
0 carapace: 9
1 carapace: 12
2 carapace: 14
3 carapace: 19
gun upgrades vs. carapaced skulk:
no upgrade: 19
1. upgrade: 16
2. upgrade: 15
3. upgrade: 14
In 2.01 skulks were weaker because people learned carapaced is not worth it (no such big bonus, only 48% bonus in 2.0) and in 3.0 are even more weak (fixed hiboxes, even though they are smaller people see them and can aim more easy). Carapace has no such effect now because there is almost no armor on skulks..
Also come some day to YO or other server with good players and good comms, tehre majority of games win marines, without any doubt, just go play there.. If they win it's only because of awesome fades, not because of skulks who loose everything. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Okay, it's time to bust out <b>the evidence.</b>
Like I said, carapace was godlike in 1.04, but hitboxes were indeed MUCH bigger.
While you could not shoot the face of the skulk, you could hit miles above it.
The proof is in the bag.
You remember 2.xx, correct? Remember how the SG could hit the skulk in one hit from a mile away for a one shot kill?
Trying to do the same stunts in 3.00 means you will connect with 1-3 pellets.
This is very good evidence of how the hitboxes, while they are easier to hit for the average noob, still proves overall they are harder to hit. The size of the hitbox is smaller than the LMG's spread, and much smaller than the shotties spread.
The skulk hitboxes, whether you choose to acknoledge it or not, are indeed MUCH smaller in 3.00, about half the size.
Anyhow, carapace and other upgrades for the skulk would be more worthwhile if they were cheaper to purchase.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> No matter how good skulk you are you have no chance against good marines 1v1 .. 9 bullets and you are dead! Most people suck with skulks and even the best players rarely get k/d ratio similar to when they play on marine side.. I dont see why my points aren't valid.. You just told that in certain unprobable situation (room full of marines on FF on server - which themselves are rare) you can own.. well what about rest of players in rest of situation on rest of servers? :-)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No offense, but this screams inexperience to me. A skulk, if he gets the jump on the marine, and does not miss, will hands down flat out own the marine. (and of course, the marine cannot get medspam either)
Lets see here -
LMG takes about .9 seconds to kill a skulk
Bite has about .75 ROF (a little more or less), and first bite is instant, and it takes .9 seconds to kill the skulk if you have an aimbot!
So not only is it physically impossible to just kill the skulk before he kills you in the event of an ambush, but lets say we aren't playing with perfect players; skulk STILL has the bigger advantage overall. A poor player probably will never even see what kills him, and a good player may get off a shot or two. As marines get upgrades, skulks lose the close quarters domination they have, and the second hive is really needed to make them effective again.
But then, gasp, they get MT, making all ambushs useless and the skulk dies!
Or....the marines have common sense stay in pairs at least and look at the ceiling:
Skulk: Tehehehe....he is tah deadorz when he walks in dis room y0
Two marines come in....look up, see skulk, see skulk fall nearly to them, commander gets 2 res from RFK.
Or....if the skulk is lucky either of these happen
Marine: I can jump! *Jumps around like a drunk, gets knocked back 3 feet killing you* or gets med packed to take another 2 bites
If you manage to bite him twice or even thrice somehow due to the fact they are intoxicated in RL, good job! Now the other marine kills you. Oh, B Hopping is kinda like this.
Anything works against newbies. The TMP can kill 2 newbies in CS and he can still live because the Terrorists can't shoot, the marines note no re-coil, if they can't hit you, then you laugh and leave ***NS Welcomes Beginners!***
Note, this is hive 1 abilities: Say you move in a pack.
Skulk1: Hehehe, there gonna be tah dead!
Skulk2: SUYF n00blet
Skulk3: Hur hur!
***There camping a RT happily***
Commander: Hey guys, theres a few skulks in there, set blasters to kill.
Marine1: Theres a non-kill function?
Marine2: SUYF n00b
***Watchs as 1 skulk dies, they now fall to the ground rushing at the marines....B Hopping perhaps another dies, the marines jump around the one that gets bit gets knocked back 3 feet and has a med pack and proceeds to pump your hide, RT is dropped....***
Notice: The skulks need upgrades, but this hurts their evolution rate but the marines have free, better upgrades early game, thusly RFK pumps the comm.
---When I'm a marine---
Gussish kills Skulk1 with LMG
Gussish kills Skulk2 with Pistol
Skulk3 kills GussishTheRambo with bitegun (usually happens, see below though)
Gussish kills Skulk3 with kantana (this actually happens sometimes, sad isn't it?)
Also, this would eliminate res-****, since everybody would be rushing for fade <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
* Free (or persistant through death) upgrades.
* Exempt from motion tracking.
* Reworking leap, either more damage or less stamina.
* Armor upgrade to 10/18/26/35.
Furthermore, the alien respawn rate is much too slow with one hive...
* Alien respawn rate increased 50% when aliens have only 1 hive.
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo-->
While you could not shoot the face of the skulk, you could hit miles above it.
The proof is in the bag.
You remember 2.xx, correct? Remember how the SG could hit the skulk in one hit from a mile away for a one shot kill?
Trying to do the same stunts in 3.00 means you will connect with 1-3 pellets.
This is very good evidence of how the hitboxes, while they are easier to hit for the average noob, still proves overall they are harder to hit. The size of the hitbox is smaller than the LMG's spread, and much smaller than the shotties spread.
The skulk hitboxes, whether you choose to acknoledge it or not, are indeed MUCH smaller in 3.00, about half the size.
Anyhow, carapace and other upgrades for the skulk would be more worthwhile if they were cheaper to purchase.
No offense, but this screams inexperience to me. A skulk, if he gets the jump on the marine, and does not miss, will hands down flat out own the marine. (and of course, the marine cannot get medspam either)
Lets see here -
LMG takes about .9 seconds to kill a skulk
Bite has about .75 ROF (a little more or less), and first bite is instant, and it takes .9 seconds to kill the skulk if you have an aimbot!
So not only is it physically impossible to just kill the skulk before he kills you in the event of an ambush, but lets say we aren't playing with perfect players; skulk STILL has the bigger advantage overall. A poor player probably will never even see what kills him, and a good player may get off a shot or two. As marines get upgrades, skulks lose the close quarters domination they have, and the second hive is really needed to make them effective again. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well forlorn I never argued about hitboxes in 1.04-2.01 not being larger, I know that well, but fact was that skulk was stronger (due to vast majority of players not knowing about hitboxes).. It's like with fades in 2.01, their hitbox was not so small (1/2-2/3 of current), yet people didnt know where to shoot making fade very strong even with lower hp/armors than now..
About your 1v1 skulk vs. marine.. You didnt take few things into acount, it takes skulk 0.8s to kill unupgraded lvl0 armor marine (skulk ROF is 1.25/s) -ok , but marine has even during ambush some warning, some sound, and is likely to jump away during first bite delaying that second fatal bite.. If he has lvl1 armor (likely after first minute :-) then it's 1.6s vs. 0.9s ... advantage for marine..
Of course nothing is perfect and if skulk bhops from behind corner to single marine he has good chance of killing him.. but I think skulk should always kill marine in such situations, and not only when lucky..
* Free (or persistant through death) upgrades.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Persistent upgrades could be fun :-) Imagine spawning with upgraded skulk and just running to battle, almost like in combat.. and if you need another upgrade, simply pay for it..
The biggest problem is prehive 2 skulks... they simply have NOTHING to propell themselves at marines. Fade has blink, lerk can fly... but skulks cant leap till hive 2! this puts them in a defensive position (ambushing) without something ahead of them to absorb the bullets so they can reach the marines (usually fades or gorges). I like the idea of a super-skulk evolution... maybe it doesn't get paracite but it gets leap as a hive 1 ability?
Aliens have no "middle tech" units other then the lerk, which is supposed to be a supportive class. marines go from "meh, skulks" to "OMG FADES!". Also, this "super teching" aliens do is like putting all the eggs into one basket... if your fade falls marines have full run of the map for a few minutes if they can aim decently.
Or increase skulk speed, or increase armour (15 armour, make cara more useful?), one or the other. Or reduce the effects of kickback?
Dunno.
Varying costs of upgrades depending on the evolution.
Upgrades persisting over death
Upgrades being removed when evolving to a new life-form.
(suddenly, a reason to evolve to skulk)
Learn how to skulk. They are just fine now. A buff would ruin their purpose. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ego problem here, someone get the hose.
Linuxmonstor is a bunch of kids running around like turkeys with no heads. I too can kill a few marines at once but lol 9?
OK, I've been switching back and forth between 2.01 and 3.00 and the skulk in 2.01 was much stronger.
A) the hit box problem
B) 10 more armor
This gave the skulk about 1 second more to get closer.
example:
Remember when the marines would stay the hell away from the sub junction 3 area in NS_eclipse because of the close quaters? I dont see marine having this much of a problem.
Everyone says Ambushing. Well you cant ambush if the marines get too close to your hive.
Grouping of skulks is a great counter, but the time it takes to get a group together is 10x that of clan play. By then the marines have put up 4 rts behind the marines by the hive, and they are electrified. Game over.
Another thing is that in every beta they continue to screw around with the aliens HP armor and such. When the real problem is the % of damage upgrades the marines get from lvl 3 guns. It takes so much longer to heal now that its like devouring an onos.
Personally I would like to see:
1)Lowering of onos and fade HP/Armor
2)Lowering of base damage of marine weapons
or decrease % of damage upgrades
3)leaving the skulk alone
What would really help skulks throughout the game is actually a bunch of armor. More than they actually can use at Hive 1. This would make them more efficient at HIVE 2 which is when the marines are about LVL 2 weapons and armor