Clearly some people are not aware of the confusion effect. When mass battles occur marines tend to target aliens by a defeat in detail method. They go after one alien at a time. This occurs most frequently during ambushes because marines are often unaware of the other targets. This is fine, except that skulks die so quickly that increased firepower has no effect. The result is that marines which might have had full ammo clips now have partially discharged ones. They now move onto the next target, wasting yet more ammo at a target that would die almost as quickly to just one or two marines firing. So the more marines (and aliens) in battle there are, the more skulks will be around for that vital reload period where everyone runs out of ammo at the same time. I have witnessed this happening frequently on pubs.
There are other factors involved of course, for instance marines blocking each others view of the target; skulks making use of marine buildings for cover; skulks drawing fire before the main assault.
To encourage ambushing, skulks may need to have their speed reduced, in return for either more health, or less powerful marine weapons.
Bite has about .75 ROF (a little more or less), and first bite is instant, and it takes .9 seconds to kill the skulk if you have an aimbot!
So not only is it physically impossible to just kill the skulk before he kills you in the event of an ambush, but lets say we aren't playing with perfect players; skulk STILL has the bigger advantage overall. A poor player probably will never even see what kills him, and a good player may get off a shot or two. As marines get upgrades, skulks lose the close quarters domination they have, and the second hive is really needed to make them effective again. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've seen the numbers published in the manual, but they're just wrong. If you actually go time it, you will find that LMG fires 16 bullets per second, while skulk bite fires at about .42 sec ROF rather than .75. I just went and doublechecked this, in several game versions, to make absolutely sure.
That means your aimbotting marine will kill the skulk in .56 sec, while the skulk takes .42 sec to finish off the marine assuming they both start firing at the exact same moment and neither ever misses. That may not make a whole lot of difference to the argument here, but I thought you should at least be arguing with the right numbers.
Bite has about .75 ROF (a little more or less), and first bite is instant, and it takes .9 seconds to kill the skulk if you have an aimbot!
So not only is it physically impossible to just kill the skulk before he kills you in the event of an ambush, but lets say we aren't playing with perfect players; skulk STILL has the bigger advantage overall. A poor player probably will never even see what kills him, and a good player may get off a shot or two. As marines get upgrades, skulks lose the close quarters domination they have, and the second hive is really needed to make them effective again. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've seen the numbers published in the manual, but they're just wrong. If you actually go time it, you will find that LMG fires 16 bullets per second, while skulk bite fires at about .42 sec ROF rather than .75. I just went and doublechecked this, in several game versions, to make absolutely sure.
That means your aimbotting marine will kill the skulk in .56 sec, while the skulk takes .42 sec to finish off the marine assuming they both start firing at the exact same moment and neither ever misses. That may not make a whole lot of difference to the argument here, but I thought you should at least be arguing with the right numbers. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I thought so, since I've been killed in split of a second in scrims by good marines.
Let's face it, the skulk needs a boost, maybe +10 ap? Savant's (i think it was savant anyway, could be wrong) that the LMG would have a slower fire-rate, and higher damage could also be worth trying.
MouseThe Lighter Side of PessimismJoin Date: 2002-03-02Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
I would tend to agree with Forlorn's first point; changing the skulk's health to 75/10. While this would do little help if we are just comparing weapon statistics, it's would go a long way in boosting regen and increasing the general longevity of the skulk. An increase in armour would just make cara the superior choice for skulks (as it arguably is now) and step away from the ideal of equally viable upgrade paths.
give it 10 more AP, and, maybe a /little/ speed boost? atm, a good/lame (your pick, really) just sorta bhops back, leaving the skulk another few metres behind
Bite has about .75 ROF (a little more or less), and first bite is instant, and it takes .9 seconds to kill the skulk if you have an aimbot!
So not only is it physically impossible to just kill the skulk before he kills you in the event of an ambush, but lets say we aren't playing with perfect players; skulk STILL has the bigger advantage overall. A poor player probably will never even see what kills him, and a good player may get off a shot or two. As marines get upgrades, skulks lose the close quarters domination they have, and the second hive is really needed to make them effective again. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've seen the numbers published in the manual, but they're just wrong. If you actually go time it, you will find that LMG fires 16 bullets per second, while skulk bite fires at about .42 sec ROF rather than .75. I just went and doublechecked this, in several game versions, to make absolutely sure.
That means your aimbotting marine will kill the skulk in .56 sec, while the skulk takes .42 sec to finish off the marine assuming they both start firing at the exact same moment and neither ever misses. That may not make a whole lot of difference to the argument here, but I thought you should at least be arguing with the right numbers. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I've never been able to find correct stats on the bite, so I just made that one up.
I know for fact though the LMG fires at .067 per bullet from <a href='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=63997&view=findpost&p=946188' target='_blank'>this thread,</a> meaning the LMG actually fires about 15 bullets a second, meaning it takes .603 seconds to kill a skulk.
And the skulk bites at .45 you said? I think that's more accurate than what I said earilier, thanks. I will not forget that.
<!--QuoteBegin-Trevelyan+Apr 5 2004, 08:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Trevelyan @ Apr 5 2004, 08:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Aliens have no "middle tech" units other then the lerk, which is supposed to be a supportive class. marines go from "meh, skulks" to "OMG FADES!". Also, this "super teching" aliens do is like putting all the eggs into one basket... if your fade falls marines have full run of the map for a few minutes if they can aim decently. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree with that. Marines upgrade bit by bit, lvl1 armor, lvl1 weapon, lvl2 weapon, shotguns etc. Everything giving them a little bit more strength.
For aliens its like: no upgrade skulk (nobody takes upgrades for skulks they are just too expensive, its better to save for fades) to at least one upgrade fade and short time later with another upgrade and metabolize which is comparable with a lvl0 au, lvl0 wu,lmg marine upgraded to a JP Marine with 2 weapon and 1 armor up teching for the third weapon up and getting an HMG.
Lowering the huge gap between fade and skulk/lerk would really make the games more fun and much more dynamic, fades wont decide 90% of the matches anymore.
<!--QuoteBegin-Trevelyan+Apr 5 2004, 08:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Trevelyan @ Apr 5 2004, 08:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Aliens have no "middle tech" units other then the lerk, which is supposed to be a supportive class. marines go from "meh, skulks" to "OMG FADES!". Also, this "super teching" aliens do is like putting all the eggs into one basket... if your fade falls marines have full run of the map for a few minutes if they can aim decently.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> [a bit offtopic] Shouldn't a lerk be able to stick to (not walk on) ceilings? Like a bat? To effectively spore an area you need to be in a high place, and as there are hardly any nice dark ledges in high areas, you usually see lerks crawl around pittifully on the ground. If a lerk could fly to the combat area and stick to a dark spot on the ceiling to do his support thing it would become much more effective... Also if under attack he could directly glide away from that high spot instead of having to wait for the energy to regenerate so he can take off from the ground. I hardly ever see a lerk in NS games now...
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Apr 6 2004, 05:36 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Apr 6 2004, 05:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Cxwf+Apr 6 2004, 02:33 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cxwf @ Apr 6 2004, 02:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I've seen the numbers published in the manual, but they're just wrong. If you actually go time it, you will find that LMG fires 16 bullets per second, while skulk bite fires at about .42 sec ROF rather than .75. I just went and doublechecked this, in several game versions, to make absolutely sure.
That means your aimbotting marine will kill the skulk in .56 sec, while the skulk takes .42 sec to finish off the marine assuming they both start firing at the exact same moment and neither ever misses. That may not make a whole lot of difference to the argument here, but I thought you should at least be arguing with the right numbers. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I've never been able to find correct stats on the bite, so I just made that one up.
I know for fact though the LMG fires at .067 per bullet from <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=63997&view=findpost&p=946188' target='_blank'>this thread,</a> meaning the LMG actually fires about 15 bullets a second, meaning it takes .603 seconds to kill a skulk.
And the skulk bites at .45 you said? I think that's more accurate than what I said earilier, thanks. I will not forget that. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I really wish I had a stop watch, but I just had to use a normal second hand. Here's my actual results.
LMG clip empties in close enough to 3 seconds that I can't get a good idea of the fraction of a second that comes after, although it certainly seems like less than a 1/3 of a second, which is what you get at 15 bullets per second.
Skulk Bite fires 10 bites, after the first instant bite, in just over 4 seconds. Being unable to time that fraction of a second, I said .42 because I read somewhere else someone say .42 and I assume it must be right since its so close to my results.
None of the stats mentioned on that thread are official either, they're someone who went and timed it with a watch, just like me. But it's pretty close either way.
True...hadn't thought of that, although it doesnt make nearly as much difference for the first .06 second shot to be instant than for the first .42 second bite to be instant.
<!--QuoteBegin-Mouse+Apr 6 2004, 07:47 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mouse @ Apr 6 2004, 07:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I would tend to agree with Forlorn's first point; changing the skulk's health to 75/10. While this would do little help if we are just comparing weapon statistics, it's would go a long way in boosting regen and increasing the general longevity of the skulk. An increase in armour would just make cara the superior choice for skulks (as it arguably is now) and step away from the ideal of equally viable upgrade paths. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Also keep in mind that 75/10 would mean the skulk takes 10 bullets to kill (big difference, believe it or not), and level 1 weapons would again have a purpose in the early game as skulks would drop back down to only 9 bullets to kill.
Well whatever the real numbers are, I think it's safe to say that lvl0 armored marine needs more time to kill skulk than skulk him, but even just lvl1 armor has big advantage.
I don't think 10 bullets mean huge difference, it's like 2 hive skulks vs. 1 hive skulks.. do you have feeling that 2 hive skulks survive that longer (apart from leaping)? It's just 11% more, not really much and various numbers were messed much more in the past without really significant results..
I never said 2.01 skulks were fine. And MAJOR difference were HITBOXES.. Yes they were larger but incorrect causing majority of people to miss you..
9 vs. 10 bullet difference is just what is it.. it's 11% difference, it's like difference betweek lvl1 weapon and lvl0 weapon (10%) .. well ofcourse weapons dont cause 1 less bullet because it's, but 11% is similar to this "feeling".
<!--QuoteBegin-Cxwf+Apr 6 2004, 01:40 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cxwf @ Apr 6 2004, 01:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> True...hadn't thought of that, although it doesnt make nearly as much difference for the first .06 second shot to be instant than for the first .42 second bite to be instant. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> meh... just nitpicking ^_^
I tend to agree with Licho on the skulks... in 1.04 i could kill way more marines alot easier than i can now in 3 and in 2.01.. although Licho should try using upgrades as a skulk, u hardly notice the res loss, and if u kill a marine u going to get res anyway... and lets say for example carapace is gona help u a lil so u will be able to kill that extra rine.. init ? <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Having played 1.04 recently I can safely say skulks are MUCH MUCH MUCH more powerful, unless you use r_drawviewmodel 0 in which case it becomes target practice. What really made the skulk powerful in 1.04 is that marines couldn't hit them as well and they were quieter.
Forlorn, yes, but it's "IF", if marines knew where hitbox were it would be easier for them to kill skulks, yet on pubs few people knew those times, so they were stronger! Theory = nothing, what matters are real experiences and real performance of skulks..
Yes, skulks need to be boosted. It's a good idea to make the upgrades cost 0 for skulks, i can't see it being abused. sure it'd make redemption worthless...but its already worthless anyway for skulks.
But even still, I fear that skulks will be too weak...maybe a small armor or health boost would do the trick? 70/20 or 75/10?
<!--QuoteBegin-Trevelyan+Apr 6 2004, 09:55 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Trevelyan @ Apr 6 2004, 09:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> if the skulk's first bite is instant... then so is the marine's first shot... it just makes logical sense IMO. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I know the discussion has shifted away from this already...but I just realized this isn't true after all. There isn't any way to time when the 50th bullet fires, so instead I timed it by the "click" made when the gun tries to fire for the 51st time and finds it has an empty clip. So the timing for 50 bullets already takes the first instant shot into account, and the same will be true for any marine weapon.
<!--QuoteBegin-Licho+Apr 6 2004, 08:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Licho @ Apr 6 2004, 08:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Forlorn, yes, but it's "IF", if marines knew where hitbox were it would be easier for them to kill skulks, yet on pubs few people knew those times, so they were stronger! Theory = nothing, what matters are real experiences and real performance of skulks.. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You don't balance the game for people who can't play it
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Apr 7 2004, 03:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Apr 7 2004, 03:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Licho+Apr 6 2004, 08:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Licho @ Apr 6 2004, 08:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Forlorn, yes, but it's "IF", if marines knew where hitbox were it would be easier for them to kill skulks, yet on pubs few people knew those times, so they were stronger! Theory = nothing, what matters are real experiences and real performance of skulks.. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You don't balance the game for people who can't play it <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh really? Ok then, let's balance it for aimbots, after all, if you are slower than aimbot you cannot play this game properly :-)
i agree with forlorn for once the skulk is still a very good killing machine and if u improve it will over power aliens even more(damn fade) i say fix the spwaning system and should solve some stuff for the pubers and make the game more fun
<!--QuoteBegin-Licho+Apr 7 2004, 10:03 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Licho @ Apr 7 2004, 10:03 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Apr 7 2004, 03:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Apr 7 2004, 03:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Licho+Apr 6 2004, 08:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Licho @ Apr 6 2004, 08:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Forlorn, yes, but it's "IF", if marines knew where hitbox were it would be easier for them to kill skulks, yet on pubs few people knew those times, so they were stronger! Theory = nothing, what matters are real experiences and real performance of skulks.. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You don't balance the game for people who can't play it <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh really? Ok then, let's balance it for aimbots, after all, if you are slower than aimbot you cannot play this game properly :-) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No, but an accuracy of 50% of your bullets or more helps
Lets start with something that was true of 1.04, a lot of people were still learning the gameplay. Skulks were more powerful (to most people in pubs) back then because of their lack of knowledge. I don't think anyone wants to return the old bugs to the game, they want to return the old gameplay to the game. That doesn't mean changing things back to how they were, that means changing the balance to recreate 1.04 balance (so to speak).
I feel the skulk is too weak at the moment, part of the problem is that marines are actually in a much better position to ambush than aliens. This changes dramatically with friendly fire on though. This is because marines can concentrate fire on a skulk even if that skulk is right next to a marine, without worrying about killing their friends.
Ultimately I'm not in favour of returning to 1.04. What I am in favour of is making the skulk actually good at ambushing marines. Its fine for it to take skill, but the skulk needs more information to help the less experienced player understand the skulks role.
The reason that people thought the skulk was better in 2.01 was because a lot of people was having a hard time killing them when they were close-up because of the borked hitboxes, all you have to do now is aim and shoot.
Comments
This is fine, except that skulks die so quickly that increased firepower has no effect. The result is that marines which might have had full ammo clips now have partially discharged ones. They now move onto the next target, wasting yet more ammo at a target that would die almost as quickly to just one or two marines firing. So the more marines (and aliens) in battle there are, the more skulks will be around for that vital reload period where everyone runs out of ammo at the same time. I have witnessed this happening frequently on pubs.
There are other factors involved of course, for instance marines blocking each others view of the target; skulks making use of marine buildings for cover; skulks drawing fire before the main assault.
To encourage ambushing, skulks may need to have their speed reduced, in return for either more health, or less powerful marine weapons.
Edit: Grammer and stuff
LMG takes about .9 seconds to kill a skulk
Bite has about .75 ROF (a little more or less), and first bite is instant, and it takes .9 seconds to kill the skulk if you have an aimbot!
So not only is it physically impossible to just kill the skulk before he kills you in the event of an ambush, but lets say we aren't playing with perfect players; skulk STILL has the bigger advantage overall. A poor player probably will never even see what kills him, and a good player may get off a shot or two. As marines get upgrades, skulks lose the close quarters domination they have, and the second hive is really needed to make them effective again. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've seen the numbers published in the manual, but they're just wrong. If you actually go time it, you will find that LMG fires 16 bullets per second, while skulk bite fires at about .42 sec ROF rather than .75. I just went and doublechecked this, in several game versions, to make absolutely sure.
That means your aimbotting marine will kill the skulk in .56 sec, while the skulk takes .42 sec to finish off the marine assuming they both start firing at the exact same moment and neither ever misses. That may not make a whole lot of difference to the argument here, but I thought you should at least be arguing with the right numbers.
LMG takes about .9 seconds to kill a skulk
Bite has about .75 ROF (a little more or less), and first bite is instant, and it takes .9 seconds to kill the skulk if you have an aimbot!
So not only is it physically impossible to just kill the skulk before he kills you in the event of an ambush, but lets say we aren't playing with perfect players; skulk STILL has the bigger advantage overall. A poor player probably will never even see what kills him, and a good player may get off a shot or two. As marines get upgrades, skulks lose the close quarters domination they have, and the second hive is really needed to make them effective again. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've seen the numbers published in the manual, but they're just wrong. If you actually go time it, you will find that LMG fires 16 bullets per second, while skulk bite fires at about .42 sec ROF rather than .75. I just went and doublechecked this, in several game versions, to make absolutely sure.
That means your aimbotting marine will kill the skulk in .56 sec, while the skulk takes .42 sec to finish off the marine assuming they both start firing at the exact same moment and neither ever misses. That may not make a whole lot of difference to the argument here, but I thought you should at least be arguing with the right numbers. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I thought so, since I've been killed in split of a second in scrims by good marines.
Let's face it, the skulk needs a boost, maybe +10 ap? Savant's (i think it was savant anyway, could be wrong) that the LMG would have a slower fire-rate, and higher damage could also be worth trying.
An increase in armour would just make cara the superior choice for skulks (as it arguably is now) and step away from the ideal of equally viable upgrade paths.
Add this and it'll be already better for survival.
LMG takes about .9 seconds to kill a skulk
Bite has about .75 ROF (a little more or less), and first bite is instant, and it takes .9 seconds to kill the skulk if you have an aimbot!
So not only is it physically impossible to just kill the skulk before he kills you in the event of an ambush, but lets say we aren't playing with perfect players; skulk STILL has the bigger advantage overall. A poor player probably will never even see what kills him, and a good player may get off a shot or two. As marines get upgrades, skulks lose the close quarters domination they have, and the second hive is really needed to make them effective again. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've seen the numbers published in the manual, but they're just wrong. If you actually go time it, you will find that LMG fires 16 bullets per second, while skulk bite fires at about .42 sec ROF rather than .75. I just went and doublechecked this, in several game versions, to make absolutely sure.
That means your aimbotting marine will kill the skulk in .56 sec, while the skulk takes .42 sec to finish off the marine assuming they both start firing at the exact same moment and neither ever misses. That may not make a whole lot of difference to the argument here, but I thought you should at least be arguing with the right numbers. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've never been able to find correct stats on the bite, so I just made that one up.
I know for fact though the LMG fires at .067 per bullet from <a href='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=63997&view=findpost&p=946188' target='_blank'>this thread,</a> meaning the LMG actually fires about 15 bullets a second, meaning it takes .603 seconds to kill a skulk.
And the skulk bites at .45 you said? I think that's more accurate than what I said earilier, thanks. I will not forget that.
I agree with that. Marines upgrade bit by bit, lvl1 armor, lvl1 weapon, lvl2 weapon, shotguns etc. Everything giving them a little bit more strength.
For aliens its like: no upgrade skulk (nobody takes upgrades for skulks they are just too expensive, its better to save for fades) to at least one upgrade fade and short time later with another upgrade and metabolize which is comparable with a lvl0 au, lvl0 wu,lmg marine upgraded to a JP Marine with 2 weapon and 1 armor up teching for the third weapon up and getting an HMG.
Lowering the huge gap between fade and skulk/lerk would really make the games more fun and much more dynamic, fades wont decide 90% of the matches anymore.
[a bit offtopic]
Shouldn't a lerk be able to stick to (not walk on) ceilings? Like a bat?
To effectively spore an area you need to be in a high place, and as there are hardly any nice dark ledges in high areas, you usually see lerks crawl around pittifully on the ground. If a lerk could fly to the combat area and stick to a dark spot on the ceiling to do his support thing it would become much more effective... Also if under attack he could directly glide away from that high spot instead of having to wait for the energy to regenerate so he can take off from the ground. I hardly ever see a lerk in NS games now...
That means your aimbotting marine will kill the skulk in .56 sec, while the skulk takes .42 sec to finish off the marine assuming they both start firing at the exact same moment and neither ever misses. That may not make a whole lot of difference to the argument here, but I thought you should at least be arguing with the right numbers. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've never been able to find correct stats on the bite, so I just made that one up.
I know for fact though the LMG fires at .067 per bullet from <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=63997&view=findpost&p=946188' target='_blank'>this thread,</a> meaning the LMG actually fires about 15 bullets a second, meaning it takes .603 seconds to kill a skulk.
And the skulk bites at .45 you said? I think that's more accurate than what I said earilier, thanks. I will not forget that. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I really wish I had a stop watch, but I just had to use a normal second hand. Here's my actual results.
LMG clip empties in close enough to 3 seconds that I can't get a good idea of the fraction of a second that comes after, although it certainly seems like less than a 1/3 of a second, which is what you get at 15 bullets per second.
Skulk Bite fires 10 bites, after the first instant bite, in just over 4 seconds. Being unable to time that fraction of a second, I said .42 because I read somewhere else someone say .42 and I assume it must be right since its so close to my results.
None of the stats mentioned on that thread are official either, they're someone who went and timed it with a watch, just like me. But it's pretty close either way.
An increase in armour would just make cara the superior choice for skulks (as it arguably is now) and step away from the ideal of equally viable upgrade paths. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Also keep in mind that 75/10 would mean the skulk takes 10 bullets to kill (big difference, believe it or not), and level 1 weapons would again have a purpose in the early game as skulks would drop back down to only 9 bullets to kill.
I don't think 10 bullets mean huge difference, it's like 2 hive skulks vs. 1 hive skulks.. do you have feeling that 2 hive skulks survive that longer (apart from leaping)? It's just 11% more, not really much and various numbers were messed much more in the past without really significant results..
2.01 skulk = 11 shots to kill
and now you claim one bullet doesn't make a difference... WRONG
1 bullet is the difference between an extra bite or a dead skulk
9 vs. 10 bullet difference is just what is it.. it's 11% difference, it's like difference betweek lvl1 weapon and lvl0 weapon (10%) .. well ofcourse weapons dont cause 1 less bullet because it's, but 11% is similar to this "feeling".
meh... just nitpicking ^_^
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Learn to aim and the skulks literally popped
Theory = nothing, what matters are real experiences and real performance of skulks..
But even still, I fear that skulks will be too weak...maybe a small armor or health boost would do the trick? 70/20 or 75/10?
I know the discussion has shifted away from this already...but I just realized this isn't true after all. There isn't any way to time when the 50th bullet fires, so instead I timed it by the "click" made when the gun tries to fire for the 51st time and finds it has an empty clip. So the timing for 50 bullets already takes the first instant shot into account, and the same will be true for any marine weapon.
Theory = nothing, what matters are real experiences and real performance of skulks.. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You don't balance the game for people who can't play it
Theory = nothing, what matters are real experiences and real performance of skulks.. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You don't balance the game for people who can't play it <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh really? Ok then, let's balance it for aimbots, after all, if you are slower than aimbot you cannot play this game properly :-)
Theory = nothing, what matters are real experiences and real performance of skulks.. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You don't balance the game for people who can't play it <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh really? Ok then, let's balance it for aimbots, after all, if you are slower than aimbot you cannot play this game properly :-) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, but an accuracy of 50% of your bullets or more helps
I feel the skulk is too weak at the moment, part of the problem is that marines are actually in a much better position to ambush than aliens. This changes dramatically with friendly fire on though. This is because marines can concentrate fire on a skulk even if that skulk is right next to a marine, without worrying about killing their friends.
Ultimately I'm not in favour of returning to 1.04. What I am in favour of is making the skulk actually good at ambushing marines. Its fine for it to take skill, but the skulk needs more information to help the less experienced player understand the skulks role.