If you want to make the electrical arcs more random you can try this:
10 env_beam's all with the same 'target' 10 info_targets all with the same 'targetname' 1 trigger_random targetting the 10 env_beams
Now the env_beams get to randomly choose one of the ten targets, and you can place these targets all over the place inside the central pillar. You'll have about 100 combinations of possible arcs.
The easiest way to make an electrical travel up the pillar is to make a custom animating texture with the electrical beam on it, and have that move up as a non-solid func_train. You could probably make the texture by taking screenshots of an env_beam in a black room, and editting the pics in Photoshop.
As for having the light travel upwards... the best you can do is have moving sprites that follow the func_train along the points it touches a surface. Easiest way to make that is a particle system that shoots one sprite straight up at the same speed as the train. Place one either edge of the train.
[EDIT -- disregard numbers about size and number of particles, and just download the <b>*second</b>* sample map instead, its got the latest and greatest settings, and its all set for compiling and running with the NSTR. The first sample map works, but the raindrops aren't very realistic -jac]
Oooh I've spent all day working on my map, and I've come up with a nice raindrop particle effect I must share! What qualifies it to be a "groovy" effect is the fact that it's actually 3 particle systems
The first system is simple: raindrop.spr at a size of about 5, set to drip about every .75 seconds. No velocity params, just set for world gravity, and collision. Upon collision, it spawns the second particle system
This system is slightly more complex (not hard to do). I personally use lightsmoke.spr, set to a small size, like 3, so it only appears to be a small sphericle droplet (which is what it should look like). As this is the first splash, it needs to be set to Box Velocity Gen, and I use the following for a nice wide spread of drops: -64,-64,48,64,64,100
Again, use world gravity and collision, and set it to spawn our third system on impact. Mess around with the number or particles to generate (I use 7), but set the lifetimes (both of them) to about .2 or .3 seconds (in the NSTR2, this should be very tiny, because, I've heard, when a particle system dies, it's particles dont, so your drops will live on after the initial splash). Also, set the gen rate to about 3-5 times the number of particles (so it will shoot out all of the particles at the same time)
The last system is exactly like the second, except the sprite size is decreased (I use 2), the number of sprites is decreased (3-5) and it doesnt spawn another particle system on generation (otherwise you'd have a big mess of particles very fast, with each drop spawning 7, and each of those 7 spawning 5, and each of those 5 making more..)
The beauty of this system is apparent if you place it to drip near the edge of a catwalk, where it will drop down to the lower level! It also works pretty well for having many raindrops, because you don't need many actual drops to make nice spashing effects on the floor.
Now get out there and MAP IT (or check out the sample map which *should* be attached -- NOTE: this required the NSTR [not NSTR2, tho. Just the regular one] to run the particles, which is what it's all about)
Jacius, cool droplets you have going there in that map... but man, turn on gl_wireframe... you got some major r_speed troubles where the pipe cuts into the walls. lol.. kidding
I demand more ready-made .bsp + .map particle system examples! Jacius' was cool, but I want more! <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
Ok, I am starting work on a soon to be kick-### particle system to produce the following: gushing hot water and steam from a boiler!!!
If you're lucky and you bribe me enough I'll post another sample map up here. Because I'm such a nice guy. Address your checks to 'Jacius@thelag.net'. Thank you.
New groovy effect. Well, its older, but it's being revived because MrSaturn seemed interested in it.
I don't have an example map yet, but I will make one if anyone asks nicely.
Effect: Moving stars. For use behind windows which supposedly look out into space. It is, of course a particle system. Based off Moleculor's wonderful forcefield system.
You need: lightsmoke.spr (comes with NSTR1+2), a particle system, and a tall, thin, func_illusionary for spawning. Should be as tall/taller than you window, and placed on the far side.
Some values: -Name: whatever you want -Gen. Entity: the tall illusionary -Gen. Shape: box -Sprite: lightsmoke.spr -Lifetimes: both should be infinite (-1), but make sure collide flag is checked. -Particle size: ~1-2, depending on how far your particles are from the window. (They should probably be at least 64 units, or else they will look like they are right outside the window (which they are, but you dont want the player to know that)) If you want the stars to look farther away, move the gen entity farther away and decrease the size of the particle. -Vel Params: -10,0,0,-20,0,0,0,0 is what I have now. This makes it move from right to left, or from positive to negative on the X axis. Change those to the 2nd and 4th for Y axis movement, 3rd and 6th for Z movement (not recommended unless your ship is supposed to be moving down or up relative to the player) If you make those positive they will obviously move in the opposite direction, and if you change the number altogether (say, to 5,0,0,10,0,0) then they will move slower or faster (dont set them to 0, or you will just get a tall pillar of stationary stars in one spot). I recommend having some fun and playing around with it in-game. Its fun <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--> -Max particles/Gen rate: I use a gen rate of 50 and max particles of 50 because it is timed/spaced just right so that the particles will hit the other end of the "star box" at about 1 second, and be respawned at the beginning, so it works out as a nice, constant flow of stars.
However, you can do a little calculation to figure out what this should be. Take the distance from the start to the finish, and divide it by the absolute value (positive) smaller velocity parameter (in this example it was -10, so I would divide by 10). That is how many seconds the slowest particles will take to get across the window. Multiply that by about 5-10 for the gen rate (this will vary -- play around with it and see what looks best), and multiply the gen rate by that number (distance/slowest) that you found, to get an approximate number for the max particles.
At least, that makes sense in my head. See if it works in real life.
~~~~~
Flags: the only flags I have are start on and collide.
~~~~~
For a more advanced effect, have 2 or more of these systems (and gen entities), with slightly smaller particles, slightly slower speeds, and slightly farther away gen entity, to get a nice 3D feel, like there are layers and layers of stars (which there are, now!<!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->
~~~~~
I hope that made sense and that everyone benefits from my little lesson. Class dismissed. Go make those particles. go go go!
Aka the end Half-life sequence with gman. If you've ever seen the rmf to that map, it will make you throw up. Its the 2nd most complex map i've ever seen. (the first being the intro flight in opposing force)
<!--QuoteBegin--Relic25+Jan. 26 2002,19:11--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Relic25 @ Jan. 26 2002,19:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Interesting idea, but I don't know whether spotlights will follow a target entity that is in motion. I can't imagine that RAD would be able to precalculate every possible variance in a spotlight for a moving target. This is why no one (that I'm aware of) has ever made a sweeping spotlight, even though one would have been great for maps based on prisons, docks, cargo yards, etc.
If I'm wrong about this, <b>please</b> let me know, because this would open a lot of possibilities for a lot of mappers besides myself!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> In HL the lights can be moved,we all know this i think,cos in HL light isn't dynamic <!--emo&:(--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('><!--endemo-->
The only way to do this is use multi_manager/trigger_delay and this kind of things,to turn on/off the light...BUT AS MERKABA SAID in the moving shadow post...useing lots of lights cause errors cos also point entities are considered in the surface count(i think he said something like this...Merk? <!--emo&:(--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('><!--endemo--> ). Also about lights...i read that the light status is stored in textures created during the compiling process...so much mores "dynamic" lights there are(flickers, turn off/on)the much heavyer is the map!
4 THE BEAM MAYBE we can use just 1 beam: the beam use 1 entity 4 the start and one for the end...1 time i read somewhere that HL uses the axis of the origin brushes or the centre of an entity(if there isn't the origin brush)to determinate positions...it's a lot of months i say i want to <b>try this</b>(but i never do) : <b>-create 2 func_train -put a env_beam -give for start-end train1-train2 -compile and see the mess!</b>
If someone want to try...
Relic(i hope to don't make confusions between map names and their authors) your shaft in Bast is coool...3 weeks ago i had the vertigo screen on the desktop...my mommy asked what it was...she said "oh dear!better i look elsewhere! These make me comes the vertigo!"(i don't know if it's right,the traduction from italian is a bit complicated)
I understood. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
I'm 99.9% sure that a beam will follow a moving entity. The beams that appear and follow the rotating pods in the test chamber at the very beginning of HL single-player is a good example. If only light entities could be precalculated to do the same.
I'm 99.9% sure that a beam will follow a moving entity. The beams that appear and follow the rotating pods in the test chamber at the very beginning of HL single-player is a good example. If only light entities could be precalculated to do the same.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> in fact was thinking about that scene i reached the point.
or the light...the only way is make a particular scroll texture i think. So render the effect in a good way is impossible.
I am reviving this post, because it was kick ###, and its been quiet for quite a while. CONTINUE POSTING YOUR PARTICLE EFFECTS PLEASE! <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
If env_beams can be moved by moving their targets around, then try this:
Make two moving entities with origin brushes inside them. Make an env_beam with the Ring flag, and the start and end entities set to the moving entities. Now watch as this glowing ring of energy moves with the entities. You could make funky science lab experiment effects with this, like circles of plasma that rise up in a tube (set the entities as invisible func_trains that rise up, and then teleport to the bottom to rise up again).
Oooh, that sounds really cool <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--> /me adds it to his slowly growing list of things to consider for an NS map of his own.
KungFuSquirrelBasher of MuttonsJoin Date: 2002-01-26Member: 103Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
<!--QuoteBegin--Yamazaki+Mar. 22 2002,00:07--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Yamazaki @ Mar. 22 2002,00:07)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->If env_beams can be moved by moving their targets around, then try this:
Make two moving entities with origin brushes inside them. Make an env_beam with the Ring flag, and the start and end entities set to the moving entities. Now watch as this glowing ring of energy moves with the entities. You could make funky science lab experiment effects with this, like circles of plasma that rise up in a tube (set the entities as invisible func_trains that rise up, and then teleport to the bottom to rise up again).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's in the HL intro, actually, with an example of it within the HL SDK in the env_beam.rmf file. Also used the effect in my DM map Sector A ( <a href="http://planethalflife.com/awmaps/dm_sectora.htm" target="_blank">http://planethalflife.com/awmaps/dm_sectora.htm</a> ) I released last summer -- though rather than the ring flag, I used individual beams for each segment (as did the original Valve version) to give a more jagged and electrified appearance to each beam. Also, I'm not even sure the ring flag was functional at that point in time. It's great, to say the least, but for the best results, you'll probably want to overlap 2-3 beams with slightly different colors, thicknesses, and brightness values.
<!--QuoteBegin--Yamazaki+Mar. 22 2002,00:07--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Yamazaki @ Mar. 22 2002,00:07)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->If env_beams can be moved by moving their targets around, then try this:
Make two moving entities with origin brushes inside them. Make an env_beam with the Ring flag, and the start and end entities set to the moving entities. Now watch as this glowing ring of energy moves with the entities. You could make funky science lab experiment effects with this, like circles of plasma that rise up in a tube (set the entities as invisible func_trains that rise up, and then teleport to the bottom to rise up again).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> i always demanded to myself how MArc Shroeder(Poke646)did the ring effect on the first generator...this is the answer i think <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->
I was gonna add this little asteroid particle effect to my ns_odlers map but I can't be bothered now... it did look quite good in game but when I originally did it it was using additive mode which made the asteroids partially transparent...I re-did the sprite to be alpha-test mode but can't be bothered to recompile just for this...
If anyone wants the sprite let me know....and just for interested peoples....you can make the asteroid disappear into space quite convincingly by using fade out and setting the scaling to 0.01...makes it get very small and then disappear.. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
Now all we need is particle collisions causing the asteroids to split into 2 asteroids... and maybe a vector drawn triangle that shoots dots at the asteroids... <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
Comments
10 env_beam's all with the same 'target'
10 info_targets all with the same 'targetname'
1 trigger_random targetting the 10 env_beams
Now the env_beams get to randomly choose one of the ten targets, and you can place these targets all over the place inside the central pillar. You'll have about 100 combinations of possible arcs.
The easiest way to make an electrical travel up the pillar is to make a custom animating texture with the electrical beam on it, and have that move up as a non-solid func_train. You could probably make the texture by taking screenshots of an env_beam in a black room, and editting the pics in Photoshop.
As for having the light travel upwards... the best you can do is have moving sprites that follow the func_train along the points it touches a surface. Easiest way to make that is a particle system that shoots one sprite straight up at the same speed as the train. Place one either edge of the train.
--Scythe--
the_only_scythe@yahoo.co.uk
Oooh I've spent all day working on my map, and I've come up with a nice raindrop particle effect I must share! What qualifies it to be a "groovy" effect is the fact that it's actually 3 particle systems
The first system is simple: raindrop.spr at a size of about 5, set to drip about every .75 seconds. No velocity params, just set for world gravity, and collision. Upon collision, it spawns the second particle system
This system is slightly more complex (not hard to do). I personally use lightsmoke.spr, set to a small size, like 3, so it only appears to be a small sphericle droplet (which is what it should look like). As this is the first splash, it needs to be set to Box Velocity Gen, and I use the following for a nice wide spread of drops: -64,-64,48,64,64,100
Again, use world gravity and collision, and set it to spawn our third system on impact. Mess around with the number or particles to generate (I use 7), but set the lifetimes (both of them) to about .2 or .3 seconds (in the NSTR2, this should be very tiny, because, I've heard, when a particle system dies, it's particles dont, so your drops will live on after the initial splash). Also, set the gen rate to about 3-5 times the number of particles (so it will shoot out all of the particles at the same time)
The last system is exactly like the second, except the sprite size is decreased (I use 2), the number of sprites is decreased (3-5) and it doesnt spawn another particle system on generation (otherwise you'd have a big mess of particles very fast, with each drop spawning 7, and each of those 7 spawning 5, and each of those 5 making more..)
The beauty of this system is apparent if you place it to drip near the edge of a catwalk, where it will drop down to the lower level! It also works pretty well for having many raindrops, because you don't need many actual drops to make nice spashing effects on the floor.
Now get out there and MAP IT (or check out the sample map which *should* be attached -- NOTE: this required the NSTR [not NSTR2, tho. Just the regular one] to run the particles, which is what it's all about)
-Jacius
-Jacius
-Jacius
EDIT -- Right-Click save-as that bugger, as a .map file
Jacius, cool droplets you have going there in that map... but man, turn on gl_wireframe... you got some major r_speed troubles where the pipe cuts into the walls. lol.. kidding
<!--emo&:p--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'><!--endemo-->
j/k <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->
Ok, I am starting work on a soon to be kick-### particle system to produce the following: gushing hot water and steam from a boiler!!!
If you're lucky and you bribe me enough I'll post another sample map up here. Because I'm such a nice guy. Address your checks to 'Jacius@thelag.net'. Thank you.
-Jacius
I don't have an example map yet, but I will make one if anyone asks nicely.
Effect: Moving stars. For use behind windows which supposedly look out into space. It is, of course a particle system. Based off Moleculor's wonderful forcefield system.
You need: lightsmoke.spr (comes with NSTR1+2), a particle system, and a tall, thin, func_illusionary for spawning. Should be as tall/taller than you window, and placed on the far side.
Some values:
-Name: whatever you want
-Gen. Entity: the tall illusionary
-Gen. Shape: box
-Sprite: lightsmoke.spr
-Lifetimes: both should be infinite (-1), but make sure collide flag is checked.
-Particle size: ~1-2, depending on how far your particles are from the window. (They should probably be at least 64 units, or else they will look like they are right outside the window (which they are, but you dont want the player to know that)) If you want the stars to look farther away, move the gen entity farther away and decrease the size of the particle.
-Vel Params: -10,0,0,-20,0,0,0,0 is what I have now. This makes it move from right to left, or from positive to negative on the X axis. Change those to the 2nd and 4th for Y axis movement, 3rd and 6th for Z movement (not recommended unless your ship is supposed to be moving down or up relative to the player) If you make those positive they will obviously move in the opposite direction, and if you change the number altogether (say, to 5,0,0,10,0,0) then they will move slower or faster (dont set them to 0, or you will just get a tall pillar of stationary stars in one spot). I recommend having some fun and playing around with it in-game. Its fun <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
-Max particles/Gen rate: I use a gen rate of 50 and max particles of 50 because it is timed/spaced just right so that the particles will hit the other end of the "star box" at about 1 second, and be respawned at the beginning, so it works out as a nice, constant flow of stars.
However, you can do a little calculation to figure out what this should be. Take the distance from the start to the finish, and divide it by the absolute value (positive) smaller velocity parameter (in this example it was -10, so I would divide by 10). That is how many seconds the slowest particles will take to get across the window. Multiply that by about 5-10 for the gen rate (this will vary -- play around with it and see what looks best), and multiply the gen rate by that number (distance/slowest) that you found, to get an approximate number for the max particles.
At least, that makes sense in my head. See if it works in real life.
~~~~~
Flags: the only flags I have are start on and collide.
~~~~~
For a more advanced effect, have 2 or more of these systems (and gen entities), with slightly smaller particles, slightly slower speeds, and slightly farther away gen entity, to get a nice 3D feel, like there are layers and layers of stars (which there are, now!<!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->
~~~~~
I hope that made sense and that everyone benefits from my little lesson. Class dismissed. Go make those particles. go go go!
-Jacius
If I'm wrong about this, <b>please</b> let me know, because this would open a lot of possibilities for a lot of mappers besides myself!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In HL the lights can be moved,we all know this i think,cos in HL light isn't dynamic <!--emo&:(--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('><!--endemo-->
The only way to do this is use multi_manager/trigger_delay and this kind of things,to turn on/off the light...BUT AS MERKABA SAID in the moving shadow post...useing lots of lights cause errors cos also point entities are considered in the surface count(i think he said something like this...Merk? <!--emo&:(--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('><!--endemo--> ).
Also about lights...i read that the light status is stored in textures created during the compiling process...so much mores "dynamic" lights there are(flickers, turn off/on)the much heavyer is the map!
4 THE BEAM MAYBE we can use just 1 beam: the beam use 1 entity 4 the start and one for the end...1 time i read somewhere that HL uses the axis of the origin brushes or the centre of an entity(if there isn't the origin brush)to determinate positions...it's a lot of months i say i want to <b>try this</b>(but i never do) :
<b>-create 2 func_train
-put a env_beam
-give for start-end train1-train2
-compile and see the mess!</b>
If someone want to try...
Relic(i hope to don't make confusions between map names and their authors) your shaft in Bast is coool...3 weeks ago i had the vertigo screen on the desktop...my mommy asked what it was...she said "oh dear!better i look elsewhere! These make me comes the vertigo!"(i don't know if it's right,the traduction from italian is a bit complicated)
I'm 99.9% sure that a beam will follow a moving entity. The beams that appear and follow the rotating pods in the test chamber at the very beginning of HL single-player is a good example. If only light entities could be precalculated to do the same.
I'm 99.9% sure that a beam will follow a moving entity. The beams that appear and follow the rotating pods in the test chamber at the very beginning of HL single-player is a good example. If only light entities could be precalculated to do the same.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
in fact was thinking about that scene i reached the point.
or the light...the only way is make a particular scroll texture i think.
So render the effect in a good way is impossible.
Make two moving entities with origin brushes inside them. Make an env_beam with the Ring flag, and the start and end entities set to the moving entities. Now watch as this glowing ring of energy moves with the entities. You could make funky science lab experiment effects with this, like circles of plasma that rise up in a tube (set the entities as invisible func_trains that rise up, and then teleport to the bottom to rise up again).
Make two moving entities with origin brushes inside them. Make an env_beam with the Ring flag, and the start and end entities set to the moving entities. Now watch as this glowing ring of energy moves with the entities. You could make funky science lab experiment effects with this, like circles of plasma that rise up in a tube (set the entities as invisible func_trains that rise up, and then teleport to the bottom to rise up again).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's in the HL intro, actually, with an example of it within the HL SDK in the env_beam.rmf file. Also used the effect in my DM map Sector A ( <a href="http://planethalflife.com/awmaps/dm_sectora.htm" target="_blank">http://planethalflife.com/awmaps/dm_sectora.htm</a> ) I released last summer -- though rather than the ring flag, I used individual beams for each segment (as did the original Valve version) to give a more jagged and electrified appearance to each beam. Also, I'm not even sure the ring flag was functional at that point in time. It's great, to say the least, but for the best results, you'll probably want to overlap 2-3 beams with slightly different colors, thicknesses, and brightness values.
Make two moving entities with origin brushes inside them. Make an env_beam with the Ring flag, and the start and end entities set to the moving entities. Now watch as this glowing ring of energy moves with the entities. You could make funky science lab experiment effects with this, like circles of plasma that rise up in a tube (set the entities as invisible func_trains that rise up, and then teleport to the bottom to rise up again).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i always demanded to myself how MArc Shroeder(Poke646)did the ring effect on the first generator...this is the answer i think <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->
If anyone wants the sprite let me know....and just for interested peoples....you can make the asteroid disappear into space quite convincingly by using fade out and setting the scaling to 0.01...makes it get very small and then disappear.. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->