Why Is Ramboing Discouraged?
InquisitiveIdiot
Join Date: 2003-10-21 Member: 21854Members
Join Date: 2003-10-21 Member: 21854Members
<div class="IPBDescription">When the game almost relies on it</div> Ah, the rambo, that red-headed stepchild of NS. Despite the constant derision, the rules made to limit him, the occasional ban, he still manages to make an appearance, game after game. Why? Why would anyone subject themselves to constant danger from wandering skulks, give up all chance of better weaponry fro the comm, and make himself the enemy of the entire game?
Because the marine team depends on him to win. He's hated, he's cursed, he's reviled - but he's needed.
Think about it. How often are marine victories entirely dependent on single marines that zig instead of zag, that vent crawl into obscure spots, that build the pg that allows the rest of the team to secure a hive? Compare that with the number of games won with teamwork alone - every key point taken and secured by large groups of marines outnumbering and outgunning any opposition that stands in their way. The very existence of jetpacks should give you an indication.
My complaint is not with the rambo, but with the hypocrisy present in his damnation. Either the rambo is an accepted part of NS, or he is not. If he is accepted, then stop whining. If not, greatly increase the build time of a single marine, so that two or more marines are needed to establish any structure in a reasonable amount of time. Or at least PGs, RTs, and TFs. Either of these paths should even up the disparity between what is desired and what is required.
Because the marine team depends on him to win. He's hated, he's cursed, he's reviled - but he's needed.
Think about it. How often are marine victories entirely dependent on single marines that zig instead of zag, that vent crawl into obscure spots, that build the pg that allows the rest of the team to secure a hive? Compare that with the number of games won with teamwork alone - every key point taken and secured by large groups of marines outnumbering and outgunning any opposition that stands in their way. The very existence of jetpacks should give you an indication.
My complaint is not with the rambo, but with the hypocrisy present in his damnation. Either the rambo is an accepted part of NS, or he is not. If he is accepted, then stop whining. If not, greatly increase the build time of a single marine, so that two or more marines are needed to establish any structure in a reasonable amount of time. Or at least PGs, RTs, and TFs. Either of these paths should even up the disparity between what is desired and what is required.
Comments
TEAMWORK
There is no "i" in team...
although there is a "me"
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Seriously though, at least read the opening post before commenting in a thread. Thank you.
A rambo is someone who just runs out of base hopeing to get a load of kills and not help the team at all.
Its rambos we frown apon we dont mind sneaky marines (inless were alien <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
They must be largely discouraged however, becaue if they aren't, <i>everyone</i> will try to do it. And they won't stop, even after you start needing sensible players again.
Someone who wanders off, perhaps in direct violation of the comm's orders and gets killed by a skulk is a rambo.
Someone who wanders off, perhaps in direct violation of the comm's orders and finds himself in an advantageous position where the comm can drop a pg is NOT a rambo, but simply a sneaky marine.
I fail to see the difference, except that in the latter case the comm convinces himself that that's what he wanted the whole time.
ninja: help the team by being sneaky
rambos: don't help the team and just try to kill.
An example: a ninja would sneak up next to a hive, and wait for a pg
a rambo would gointo the hive and try to spawn camp the aliens
Another example: the ninja would crawl through the vent hoping to get somewhere un-noticed.
the rambo would try to camp the vent, hoping to kill many aliens unnoticed.
Yet another example: If a ninja in a good spot saw an alien walk by, he wouldn't shoot and give away his position.
If a rambo in a good spot saw an alien walk by, he'd chase it down and try to kill it.
So yes, we the commanders are very anti-rambo, but we love the ninjas. dont' confuse them with each other ^_^
EDIT: yeah, if the marine ignores the com's orders, that doesn't help. but if they're smart enough to be a ninja, then they have a good enough understanding of WHEN to ninja and when to follow orders. i.e. if we're attacking a hive and making no progress, the ninja might decide it's better to sneak into the other hive and set up a pg there. While directly contradicting the com's orders, he is still helping the team.
If they're in a hive, unnoticed, then DROP THEM A PG. If you don't take an opportunity when it presents itself, you're a really bad com.
If your team is assaulting the building 2nd hive... a sneaky ninja can spawn camp the aliens long enough for your team to finish the job and set up a quick defense... ensuring a 2 hive lockdown! Even moreso if the ninja has brought a fellow ninja with him... and the com drops a armory in a corner and mines are placed everywhere. It hurts the aliens greatly when they cant use their speed to their advantage (IE: Running to the hive that needs help). Heck a sneaky ninja getting mines and a PG up sets up a second and final push on the aliens... ending the game!
Also noted... new players are usually not welcome in the ninja position as watching the fool just start to build the PG while skulks are obviously coming down upon him is painful as com.
yes we need him.
Any player that does not follow orders while wearing fifty res points can burn in hell. I don't want my HA's running off in all directions looking for kills, I want them all together doing usefull stuff like welding eachother. Until the team is fully equiped with res to spare, I don't want anyone decked out running off alone.
shure a rambo may help a little bit, but a handful of marines sticking together is far better than a over med/ammo spammed with infanite res rambo.
a rambo could be someone very skilled running to a keypoint of the map, owning up and moving on. Just because he rambo doesnt mean its not for the teams best.
But i guess ur talking about the avarage rambo trying to do lock down hive himself and such, and ignoring everything the commander says.
And how does putting pressure on the aliens <i>not</i> help the team?
Putting pressure on the aliens is one thing, blatantly ignoring your comm is a very different thing.
Someone who runs off on his/her own the second he/she spawns towards an empty or enemy resource tower or towards a hive or siege location and then <b>requests</b> a phase gate and/or turret factory to secure/eliminate enemy structures isn't the same thing as a Rambo.
I think the main problem with this thread is that the original poster isn't exactly clear on the definition of a Rambo player.
In short a Rambo does absolutely nothing for the team even when asked to and plays only for their score. If you want to see this creature in its natural habitat come play on any UK server when there are "high skilled" clan members playing. You will not be dissappointed (well you will if you're the commander)
Enjoy <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If you play NS every day of every month and understand the keys to winning, you don't need the com to explain where to go. There are only a limited number of useful places on the map, and if you don't know enough to figure out where they are without being spoon-fed the information like a child, nothing the commander can do for you is going to help you win. The com shouldn't need to tell you where to go when you have a mini-map. You go to where you're the most useful without the commander wasting time and attention telling you the obvious. All the commander needs to do is get upgrades and pass out the right kind of equipment as soon as it's needed, because his players should be smart enough to do the rest.
If the players on your team don't understand how to win or even how to play the game, you're going to lose, and you're playing on a bad public server.
One marine with great aim who always does what needs to be done without being told is worth a squad of clueless newbs who follow each other perfectly, but run around like a herd of sheep without knowing where they are going or why or what to expect, without the skills to deal with the situation once they finally get there.
Ninja rambos own you. If everyone was as good as the best ninja rambos, commanders wouldn't need microphones, and marines would completely destroy aliens in any game above about 8v8.</span>
Ramboing is in no way needed whatsoever to win.
The only time ramobing is beneficial is when the marine knows more about the game than the commander. While this is sadly the case more and more these days to be as efficient as possible Ramboes are a big`no.
A ninja will know the time to hide and when to shoot. He will kill at least 2 skulks a life and will usually target the gorge if it jsut gestated because that would cause an alien res loss of at least 35 points with the dead gorge, the replacement with a res tower and the other player with around 15 res that can't use it for anything till around the 5 minute mark. They know when to pressure aliens and where. They are also killer distractions, if he is near an alien hive while the other team sets up to siege another, they will focus on him becuase they are expecting the comm to give him a PG for the rest of the team. Instead, he sends 4 skulks to the spawn que, distracts the entire team and probably gets that fade to go to the other side of the map instead of where the sieges are, allowing for more defenses and more guns. A rambo doesn't cause fear to gestaters really, since they usually die before they get to the hive. A ninja is the threat as they'll get to the hive and put every effort into killing the egg, if it's a gorge, lerk, skulk upgrade or what have you. It still causes hysteria among the aliens and taht can destroy them.
Technically, he suggested increasing build times, so that isn't completely accurate.
Well, a ninja/rambo combo.
I never comm, but I have voicecomm, so I yell at my teammates when they're being idiotic.
Since I never comm, whenever I join marines, I INSTANTLY go to a res node towards one of the hives. I do NOT in ANY way let the commander know I'm there until the usual skulks either appear or are absent.
For example: Tanith. I'll run out the left side of base, go up, and out to west access. If there's a skulk (Or an egg), I'll knife it down, tell the comm that waste is the hive, and yell at people to get to sat-comm. If there's nothing, I'll give a few order requests and wait. Build that RT, run to waste, build that one.. then out to cargo, etc.
I like being that kinda guy. I also like Grenade launchers when I have support.. ESPECIALLY when someone's trying to attack from the vent. I remember another game (Also on tanith.. heh), a couple lerks were trying to clear Sat-comm.. Four grenades later, I've got lerk goo all over my shoes. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I also love Ninjas. They are awesomesauce. But the entire team can NOT be ninjas.
Well, a ninja/rambo combo.
I never comm, but I have voicecomm, so I yell at my teammates when they're being idiotic.
Since I never comm, whenever I join marines, I INSTANTLY go to a res node towards one of the hives. I do NOT in ANY way let the commander know I'm there until the usual skulks either appear or are absent.
For example: Tanith. I'll run out the left side of base, go up, and out to west access. If there's a skulk (Or an egg), I'll knife it down, tell the comm that waste is the hive, and yell at people to get to sat-comm. If there's nothing, I'll give a few order requests and wait. Build that RT, run to waste, build that one.. then out to cargo, etc.
I like being that kinda guy. I also like Grenade launchers when I have support.. ESPECIALLY when someone's trying to attack from the vent. I remember another game (Also on tanith.. heh), a couple lerks were trying to clear Sat-comm.. Four grenades later, I've got lerk goo all over my shoes. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I also love Ninjas. They are awesomesauce. But the entire team can NOT be ninjas. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're everything that I do.
Why go around with the WHOLE team capping res on one side of the map, when you could have 1 person going around capping the res on the other side of the map totally unchallenged?
And what about RFK? This so-called rambo can collect tons of res if you know he is good and know how to keep him alive.
I myself rambo/ninja quite a bit, because I always find the commander never giving me a waypoint in the first place and if he does, it sounds too ridiculous to follow if you're the only one doing it anyway.
I'm not saying that I totally disobey orders, but I'm trying to say is that you need some of these people because they have a greater chance of changing the game around than you can believe.
I don't care what you call them, ninjas or rambos, they're all the same, they don't always follow the commander's orders and most of the time, they do their work better for the following reasons:
You don't have a squad of drop dead morons around you.
You don't have a squad of drop dead morons blocking your shots because they decide to stand in front of everyone while there is a big <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>"shoot me sign"</span> on their back.
Some people just plain work better by themselves and it is as simple as that.
And how does putting pressure on the aliens <i>not</i> help the team? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
By the same token, how does hacking not help your team either?
hacking does help your team, but it's illegal. if you're suggesting spawn camping is illegal, well it's not. It's a completely valid strategy
rambo's are all well and good in a clan team or an organised pub team, - they induce confusion in the other team - just as long as enough people are still providing a team based force against the aliens.
ninjas are cool <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
speaking of rambos, what about the current amount of res [you know whats - prolly banned by teh bad word filter]. don't they realise why those games they joined half way through had great res flow was because lots of people temped for res. no longer will 2 gorges do <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->