there is a law some where saying "you may not hack"?
define hacking first...
using cheats? err - there are cheats built into the game gaining an unfair advantage over other players? having a good aim and good connection is a hack? nah.
hacking does help your team mates... admittedly in a non-ethical (not best word but it gets the point across) way, but it does. spawn camping is a valid strategy - doesn't mean it's fun.
who cares about rambo's? play on well-adminned servers and they are never an issue. some one keeps rambo'ing, kick them. play in clan matches, rambo'ing isn't an issue.
there are so many easy ways of avoiding this problem, why bother adressing it. There will <b>always</b> be people who play the game with the intent of ruining it for others - deal with it. it is part of online gaming as much as porn is part of the internet
A rambo is a player that wastes res, pure and simple. If you have an HA and you die alone in some god forsaken corridoor, you are a rambo. If shot at something before you built the PG and ended up getting eaten because of it, you are a rambo. If you ran to double res while it was full of OCs, and you are well aware that sat com is being eaten, you are a rambo. A rambo is a player that acts selfishly and as an end result causes damage to his team on a grand scale.
Following orders is a good way to make sure you never are a rambo, but not following orders does not inately make you a rambo. A rambo is pure and simple a player who acts for the benifit of his kill points before the benifit of his team.
<!--QuoteBegin-EEK+Apr 28 2004, 01:57 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (EEK @ Apr 28 2004, 01:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-a civilian+Apr 27 2004, 08:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (a civilian @ Apr 27 2004, 08:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Kobayashi+Apr 27 2004, 02:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kobayashi @ Apr 27 2004, 02:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> a rambo would gointo the hive and try to spawn camp the aliens <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> And how does putting pressure on the aliens <i>not</i> help the team? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> By the same token, how does hacking not help your team either? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You mean a Cheater not a hacker. See Full # 3 I use FanFiction.net Dictionary. <a href='http://www.fanfiction.net/dictionary.php?word=Hacker&pop=0' target='_blank'>Fanfiction hacker Def</a> A true Hacker can help find problems then report them. A cracker finds problems and use them to there own ends. Source: WordNet ® 2.0
hacker n 1: someone who plays golf poorly 2: a programmer who breaks into computer systems in order to steal or change or destroy information as a form of cyber-terrorism [syn: cyber-terrorist, cyberpunk] 3: a programmer for whom computing is its own reward; may enjoy the challenge of breaking into other computers but does no harm; "true hackers subscribe to a code of ethics and look down upon crackers" 4: one who works hard at boring tasks [syn: hack, drudge]
ah well, i'd call myself a ninja, but a very special ninja. that kind of ninja that can't take on 4 skulks alone with a lvl0 lmg, but will get that secret pg in the hive, IF it is theoretically possible. ie: 8 oc's on the way there + 8 oc's IN the hive + 3 people in the spawn queue. in those circumstances it's impossible.
the counter to lone marines is Scent Of Wallhack... or was it "Fear"?
If my team does a great job I dont have to give orders. To me a great job is getting rts and protecting them so I dont have to electrify them. As long as this is being done I dont care what my team does.
When I join <b>any</b> pub-server, I'll join a team, mute everyone on it and then play how I know the game should be played, may it be the role of the rambo, or the ninja. Bottom line though, I play the way I want to play when I play, and as long as u play the best you can, if ur not a total noobcaek, u'll probably end up helping ur team no matter what.
what happens if the commander wants you go to some where else?
what if he is doing some thing different to the way you "think the game should be played"
how can you team play if you don't listen to what people are saying? assume you know whats going on? ...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->... assumtion is the mother of all ****-ups<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This thread should be proof enough. Everyone and their little damn puppy wants to be a leet friggin' ninja - resulting in a lack of common sense, and a total inability of the commander to formulate a plan for lack of any manpower to follow it through with. And instead he has to just wait for a lucky break.
The odds of someones actions becoming useful are alot higher when asked to do so and nicely piecing into the master plan, than by simply randomly wandering around. All the people that insist they've been useful rambos that ignored their comms so many times are right, yes they have been useful - but they've been completely useless, just whining about bs each time they get owned by a lone Skulk, complaining about hitboxes and god knows what than the amount of times they've gotten phasegates up that decided the game.
Sort of like the monkey and the typewriter. That rambo dicking around is bound to every now and then get lucky. Putting a human infront of the typewriter is still more likely to produce positive results <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I remember the days when "rambo" meant anyone who wanders off and disobeys orders to go and kill aliens. Now there's a "ninja" term to denote players that rambo and get lots of kills?
I'm going to point out that even though the rambo set up the phase gate, he did not then run solo into the hive, kill three fades with headshots, and then hit the hive in it's 1000x damage hitbox killing it instatnly. While rambos may pave the way for marine wins, it is still teamwork that kills hives and large aliens, allways. You will not be able to accomplish anything without teamwork, regardless of how many rambos are setting phase gates.
I feel the rambo term hinges on a single fact. The commander.
If the commander asks a marine or gives consent for a marine to wander off alone, it's fine. If the commander has specifically waypointed a marine somewhere, and yet they feel the need to go off and do their own thing, they're a rambo.
A number of times i've sat there in marine start and just asked the comm "mind if i just rambo to <some hive> and try get you a phase gate?" usually the answer is yes and i can freely run off without people shouting at me, and usually i do get in somewhere, get a phase up, and a full assault on a hive can begin. I'm sure nobody can see any problem with that. If i'm commanding and someone asks me that same question, there's little doubt i wll say yes. People sneaking into hives or hard to get places really do help the team, it's just when they decide that they're the most important member of the team or when they forget that the hive won't die with just one marine (anymore), that they begin to p**s me off.
If any of my marines disobey my orders, they get nothing. No meds, no ammo. If they ask for a weapon, they will not recieve it at any point in the game from me. Sure, i may be an arsehole but people need to remember that NS is about teamwork.
<!--QuoteBegin-SaltzBad+Apr 28 2004, 09:09 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SaltzBad @ Apr 28 2004, 09:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This thread should be proof enough. Everyone and their little damn puppy wants to be a leet friggin' ninja - resulting in a lack of common sense, and a total inability of the commander to formulate a plan for lack of any manpower to follow it through with. And instead he has to just wait for a lucky break. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I think, InquisitiveIdiot, that here lies the core of the hypocrisy. The whole Rambo/Ninja separation seems rather silly to me, and yes, I understand the distinction between running off on your own and shooting everything that moves and running off on your own and <i>not</i> shooting everything that moves. Either way, however, you're running off on your own, and possibly even disregarding orders. When this results in a win for your team, you can be rightly praised for it. But when this results in your team failing to fulfill the commander's objectives, which cascades into a long, hard, fall down to the last stand at the CC, you have officially become an ****-munch.
Think of it this way: if someone charged a hive, received medpacks and ammo packs, and spawn-camped the aliens for a couple minutes (to be nicer, say the aliens have a second hive and a second spawn point), and the entire alien team panics and throws itself at him, the commander now has free rein to take the other side of the map.
I think that a well-placed rambo or ninja can lead to victory, and a poorly placed rambo or ninja can lead to defeat. Defeat is nearly <i>certain</i>, however, if the entire marine team decides to rambo or ninja . . . hence the cultural disdain for rambos. A rambo or ninja is nothing without the backing of the standard chain of command, and if everyone decides to ignore orders and do what <i>they</i> think is best for the good of the team, the CC might as well be a box that produces ambient noise.
Sometimes what a commander <i>needs</i> is a rambo or a ninja--but no-one wants to admit that, because everyone would then strive to be the rambo or ninja that the team needs. Hence the hypocrisy.
As for the lucky break: no battle plan survives contact with the enemy. I consider it the mark of an excellent commander when someone can recognise the lucky break and take it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> By the same token, how does hacking not help your team either?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>Most Irrelevant Comment award.</span> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->When I join any pub-server, I'll join a team, <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>mute everyone on it </span>and then play how I know the game should be played<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>NS requires team communication. You are the problem this topic is addressing. Please stop. Signed- The NS Community</span> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If any of my marines disobey my orders, they get nothing. People need to remember that NS is about teamwork. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>LOL, the only difference between yelling at your team to do something when you're in the com chair and yelling at them when you're in the field with them is that you actually have the power to spite your team if they don't bow to your whim when you're in the chair. Awesome teamwork indeed. Have you ever recycled base to "teach them a lesson?"
Listen, the only time anyone needs to be out there doing their own thing is when there is nobody else available to do it. One marine who constantly recaps res towers and defends them is very little drain on the marine team, since he's being useful. One marine hiding on the other side of the map because he's afraid of being seen is doing absolutely nothing, no matter how sneaky he thinks he is. Your worth in this game is based on what you are doing RIGHT THIS SECOND to win the game, not what you could be doing in sixty seconds. If you're still taking time to think about where the team needs you the most, you need to follow someone else or listen to the commander. Someone who spawncamps the aliens when they only have one hive and kills them all before they have a chance to escape is doing infinitely more damage to the alien team than the same player if he just let the aliens spawn while hiding and peeing his pants in some corner unseen. The idea isn't to be sneaky. You don't get bonus points for sneakyness. The idea is to do damage to the alien team. If you're not doing significant damage or providing a real danger to the alien team by yourself, such as spawncamping them, killing gestating eggs at the hive, suicide-gunning fresh gorges and alien RTs, or grouping your team to ambush and kill higher level lifeforms, YOU ARE BEING USELESS, and you need to go to the action and be helpful over there.
If you're going to go off on your own, don't just go and hide and convince yourself that you're useful because you're somewhere the aliens aren't looking. You obviously don't understand the game. Just going off somewhere because nobody on the other team is stopping you is useless. You're doing nobody any good until you actually start attacking and killing something.
Winning isn't based on standing in certain places. This isn't Day of Defeat. It's based on killing the enemy's ability to respawn and their ability to buy better stuff. You stop the enemy from spawning, and you win. You stop him from getting better stuff, and you win. You kill hives, RTs, IPs, the armory, and important things, and you win. The idea is to kill any surrounding enemy units as soon as you have the opportunity, and then kill the structures, and kill any enemy forces trying to save it. You do this a lot better when you have two or three teammates who have some idea how to win the game too, with a commander who knows how to win the game watching over the three or four of you as you move towards something valuable, and ideally win the game.
The point is, ninjas work better when they link up to form Supar Ninja Squad 5. It's better when you get all the smart people on your team working together than if you all worked on other sides of the map. Figure out who on your team knows how to play the game. Spawn camping works even better with three guys doing it. Bring a friend next time you see something that the commander needs done.</span>
I think you guys should read my first post its the decisive answer to this question. And the difference between a rambo and a ninja is a rambo runs out and does ****.
Im being a ninja when Lucid tells me to get to the enemy hive and sends pro and leech out to distract fades than I duck walk and build a phase into there hive even while they scout it. This planned ramobing is sometimes the only way to win I think eR will attest they've found Squishy in there hive building a pg afew times when they wandered back for some odd reason.
Anyway Ramboing is always bad when the com is competent.
<!--QuoteBegin-Kobayashi+Apr 27 2004, 01:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kobayashi @ Apr 27 2004, 01:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> What you are describing is the ninja.
ninja: help the team by being sneaky
rambos: don't help the team and just try to kill.
An example: a ninja would sneak up next to a hive, and wait for a pg a rambo would gointo the hive and try to spawn camp the aliens
Another example: the ninja would crawl through the vent hoping to get somewhere un-noticed. the rambo would try to camp the vent, hoping to kill many aliens unnoticed.
Yet another example: If a ninja in a good spot saw an alien walk by, he wouldn't shoot and give away his position. If a rambo in a good spot saw an alien walk by, he'd chase it down and try to kill it.
So yes, we the commanders are very anti-rambo, but we love the ninjas. dont' confuse them with each other ^_^
EDIT: yeah, if the marine ignores the com's orders, that doesn't help. but if they're smart enough to be a ninja, then they have a good enough understanding of WHEN to ninja and when to follow orders. i.e. if we're attacking a hive and making no progress, the ninja might decide it's better to sneak into the other hive and set up a pg there. While directly contradicting the com's orders, he is still helping the team. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Wow.. 100% in my mind.. I love camping out in vents though <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
There is a difference between ramboing, and smart ramboing. I always rambo in pubs, it is the best way to get the most action and test your skills the best. Depending on only yourself to kill everything that attacks you is a great way to develope good aim. It is great practice, but the thing is you play smart, you take down nodes and cap nodes for the comm all the while, help out teamates along the way when you encounter them. These are all good things.
Now the regular rambo who just runs of and dies repeatedly is bad. He accomplishes nothing but feeding the aliens res, literally.
I encourage people to rambo, get better aim, kill skulks in around 15 bullets or so and you are doing pretty good (ideally you want to kill them in 9 but that means you cant miss at all). its all about practice <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I rambo a lot mainly for scouting. Its also great for a distraction. I've seen whole teams of 7 or more aliens come to a hive that I was knifing cause i had no bullets. In the time it took the aliens to come back and kill me my team should have been able to advance somewhere else. The real issue is usually oblivious comms. They wanna send the whole team to go lock down a single res or maybe a double res while the aliens get all 3 hives. Sadly the aliens are about the same on pubs they wanna give up 2 hives to fight over double res. So usually while my mindless teammates and oblivious comm fight for dbl. I go get as many single res as possible and can usaully get a hive in the process. Basically rambos are definately needed but stat***** suck lol. Oh and I never take equip when I rambo anyway I'll even drop a welder back at base to make sure its not costing the team. Basically I'm all for this type of ramboing but getting equipment just to get a kill then lose it is pretty lame.
Rambo = A player that never goes to waypoints, never welds, never covers, and always wanders off. If he sees something that can be damaged, he wastes all his ammo to it and has no idea that the entire alien-team is waiting behind his back. That is rambo, but there is another one too:
Ninja = A player who does what is asked, welds and covers, but sometimes also wanders to his merry way -this often resulting that infamous, without-warning, PG-rush to a hive. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
(Oh, I see that others have come up with the same, little distinction as I have <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
A rambo becomes a ninja when he proves his worth. There are certainly obvious differences between the two which have already been pointed out. The question posed is why are they frowned upon.
In clan play you organise with your team what you are doing beforehand, everyone knows their roles and jump to your orders pretty quickly. You can split them up in to squads and know they aren't going to get lost, die to a random lone skulk or give themselves away without you wanting them to.
In pub play you hope you have some guys on your team who know what you're doing, players will only understand the simplest orders so you end up sending most of them in one big group (at least they'll stick in it). Splitting them up leads to a quick death unless you have two vets/clanners who are working together. You pray for the ninja and sometimes even ask for it so that you can be controlling more territory than your numbers and skills can really hold.
Ninjas are great for lots of things. 1. Securing res nodes while the alien attention is elsewhere 2. Sneaking a pg up to give you better map control 3. Giving you information on what is hapening (you can't be everywhere) 4. RFK Camping (most ninjas have skills enough to do this)
A Ninja understands the maps and the game plan. When I ninja (e.g. sleepy com or given permission) I'll try and do these things. If the com doesn't want an RT then I can check the map and see how best to support my team. If we are attacking elsewhere and I'm across the other side from an RT run then I know it's more handy to cause a distraction, die then rejoin the team than try and leg it across the map.
I guess there is a thin line between ninja and rambo but at the end of the day even a rambo can do some good. No one wants to lose and when they realise things are going bad they sometimes listen.
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
rambo is ok to my opinion aslong as the comm does NOT have work for you. lack orders? No stuff? Rambo. i call this recon. hell, mostly I even ask the comm if its ok. But point is, no work? do so.
Yet usualyl you will have work. then indeed TEAMwork. obey. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->lack orders? No stuff? Rambo. i call this recon. hell, mostly I even ask the comm if its ok.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yea? Then you aren't a rambo, because you actually ASK something like that. Rambo never asks anything (beside maybe for equipment... in a very loud tone...)
On my server we have a regular commander... And I am designated his "Rambo" At the start while people are starting off I just run off and cap res nodes. Later on when we are under attack I go round to their hive, through the longest route possible, and build a PG, TF and Seiges at the back of the hive. Because the Aliens are concentrating on other parts (Attacking another hive, Double res etc) they don't notice the noises of building behind their hive. As soon as the seiges etc are up my commander tells everyone to phase and rush into the hive with scans all over the place. It works and has won us countless games. Also it pays to have skill if you rambo <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
After posting my post... And then reading the above... I'm a mix between the two lol. I find it funny now... Especially in Combat. I get a shotgun and armour. A skulk sneaks behind me. Takes a focus bite and doesn't kill and I do a 180 and get an instant kill. That's always funny.
<!--QuoteBegin-InquisitiveIdiot+Apr 27 2004, 11:45 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (InquisitiveIdiot @ Apr 27 2004, 11:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ah, the rambo, that red-headed stepchild of NS. Despite the constant derision, the rules made to limit him, the occasional ban, he still manages to make an appearance, game after game. Why? Why would anyone subject themselves to constant danger from wandering skulks, give up all chance of better weaponry fro the comm, and make himself the enemy of the entire game?
Because the marine team depends on him to win. He's hated, he's cursed, he's reviled - but he's needed.
Think about it. How often are marine victories entirely dependent on single marines that zig instead of zag, that vent crawl into obscure spots, that build the pg that allows the rest of the team to secure a hive? Compare that with the number of games won with teamwork alone - every key point taken and secured by large groups of marines outnumbering and outgunning any opposition that stands in their way. The very existence of jetpacks should give you an indication.
My complaint is not with the rambo, but with the hypocrisy present in his damnation. Either the rambo is an accepted part of NS, or he is not. If he is accepted, then stop whining. If not, greatly increase the build time of a single marine, so that two or more marines are needed to establish any structure in a reasonable amount of time. Or at least PGs, RTs, and TFs. Either of these paths should even up the disparity between what is desired and what is required. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The occasional Rambo can be important, but the problem is when everyone is rambo. It's hard to get anything done when rines do things on their own, and the aliens work as a team. Every real Comm knows that maybe 1 or in a big game 2 people should be rambos, but any more and nothing would get done and rines would be ambushed.
<b>We</b> are the Borg ..errr Marines, you will be assimilated ...errrr killed until you can't respawn anymore...>)
Its just that rambo's who make a lot of noise and try to kill stuff on their own won't have that much succes as a tight working squad that takes a nice amount of rt's and covers each others back.
And those "rambo's" that make a pg and stuff.... ah well, its just that those guys look on the map, and if they have Motion Tracking, they can see where the kharaa are and where they run most of the time, so that is why they can _Sneak_ to the hive, and start whi....asking for a Phasegate <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I would love it to see a team making groups of 2 which all have their own task, like:
-Getting Rt's. -Patrol around to keep those Rt's. -Attack Kharaa Rt's.
And a bigger group to take out Hive's
LONG LIVE TEAMWORK (And the smart guy who evades every Kharaa dog ..errr Skulk, and brings up the important Phase Gate)
Dont people love this topic.. its so controversial!
I think the problem is defining a rambo, everyone has a slight variant on a rambo from what they see a marine doing, to knowing what that marines intentions are.
I think you can split them into two categories to begin with..
people who rambo in tournement and people who rambo in public.
because really, in a tournement it can be a valuble strategy, but must be pre-determined!! - sometimes accidently a marine finds himself on his own.. the way back is fraught with danger.. so he heads off forward and can very usfull. in public it can be annoying, accidently usefull, or just fun!
commanders in public games will often complain about them because they are wanting to try something in particular, or if the game is failing that is what he will blame.
you also have to think that the commander has a great to deal to think about.. and occasionally a marine will see things from a different perspective go off on his own and acheive miracles. sometimes **** it up completley..
I think everyone should train themselves to rambo.. because most of the time you will find yourself on your own, with the commander depending upon you to do something. sometimes tho it is better than you die and respawn.
So it comes down to the particular rambo in question and what his motivations are! sometimes they are instinctive motives, deliberate or coincidental.
but its only really public games that anyone ever complains about them.. and as aliens arent complaining about them, and i rarly see a marine complaining (too busy doing whatever to notice) so it narrows it down to commanders..
in that case.. I would argue that the commander doesnt have much influence or leadership over his crew if he is having to complain about them. I've seen many commanders who are very good leaders, contstantly on the mic issuing orders, disiplining people who fall out of line and encouraging marines to acheive mini missions. Commanders need to realise that way points are usless! how many times have you gone towards a way point and found the place swarming.. or you've got a way point that hasnt changed for ages.. do you just sit there and do nothing, knowing that the commander has forgotton, or do you go off and try make yourself usefull?
In a public game it doesnt bother me.. I work with them, if we lose, so what?.. public is just the training arena for clan matches.
A rambo is often just a bored soldier, so its up to the commander to provide adequate motivation. if that still doesnt work.. leave them to their own devices for they have the tenacity and gumption to become heroes, or not.
Comments
there is a law some where saying "you may not hack"?
define hacking first...
using cheats? err - there are cheats built into the game
gaining an unfair advantage over other players? having a good aim and good connection is a hack? nah.
hacking does help your team mates... admittedly in a non-ethical (not best word but it gets the point across) way, but it does. spawn camping is a valid strategy - doesn't mean it's fun.
who cares about rambo's? play on well-adminned servers and they are never an issue. some one keeps rambo'ing, kick them. play in clan matches, rambo'ing isn't an issue.
there are so many easy ways of avoiding this problem, why bother adressing it. There will <b>always</b> be people who play the game with the intent of ruining it for others - deal with it. it is part of online gaming as much as porn is part of the internet
Following orders is a good way to make sure you never are a rambo, but not following orders does not inately make you a rambo. A rambo is pure and simple a player who acts for the benifit of his kill points before the benifit of his team.
And how does putting pressure on the aliens <i>not</i> help the team? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
By the same token, how does hacking not help your team either? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You mean a Cheater not a hacker.
See Full # 3
I use FanFiction.net Dictionary.
<a href='http://www.fanfiction.net/dictionary.php?word=Hacker&pop=0' target='_blank'>Fanfiction hacker Def</a>
A true Hacker can help find problems then report them. A cracker finds problems and use them to there own ends.
Source: WordNet ® 2.0
hacker
n 1: someone who plays golf poorly
2: a programmer who breaks into computer systems in order to
steal or change or destroy information as a form of
cyber-terrorism [syn: cyber-terrorist, cyberpunk]
3: a programmer for whom computing is its own reward; may enjoy
the challenge of breaking into other computers but does no
harm; "true hackers subscribe to a code of ethics and look
down upon crackers"
4: one who works hard at boring tasks [syn: hack, drudge]
ah well, i'd call myself a ninja, but a very special ninja. that kind of ninja that can't take on 4 skulks alone with a lvl0 lmg, but will get that secret pg in the hive, IF it is theoretically possible. ie: 8 oc's on the way there + 8 oc's IN the hive + 3 people in the spawn queue. in those circumstances it's impossible.
the counter to lone marines is Scent Of Wallhack... or was it "Fear"?
Bottom line though, I play the way I want to play when I play, and as long as u play the best you can, if ur not a total noobcaek, u'll probably end up helping ur team no matter what.
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo-->
what if he is doing some thing different to the way you "think the game should be played"
how can you team play if you don't listen to what people are saying? assume you know whats going on? ...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->... assumtion is the mother of all ****-ups<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
it's cheesy i know, but is a good line
The odds of someones actions becoming useful are alot higher when asked to do so and nicely piecing into the master plan, than by simply randomly wandering around. All the people that insist they've been useful rambos that ignored their comms so many times are right, yes they have been useful - but they've been completely useless, just whining about bs each time they get owned by a lone Skulk, complaining about hitboxes and god knows what than the amount of times they've gotten phasegates up that decided the game.
Sort of like the monkey and the typewriter. That rambo dicking around is bound to every now and then get lucky. Putting a human infront of the typewriter is still more likely to produce positive results <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If the commander asks a marine or gives consent for a marine to wander off alone, it's fine. If the commander has specifically waypointed a marine somewhere, and yet they feel the need to go off and do their own thing, they're a rambo.
A number of times i've sat there in marine start and just asked the comm "mind if i just rambo to <some hive> and try get you a phase gate?" usually the answer is yes and i can freely run off without people shouting at me, and usually i do get in somewhere, get a phase up, and a full assault on a hive can begin. I'm sure nobody can see any problem with that. If i'm commanding and someone asks me that same question, there's little doubt i wll say yes. People sneaking into hives or hard to get places really do help the team, it's just when they decide that they're the most important member of the team or when they forget that the hive won't die with just one marine (anymore), that they begin to p**s me off.
If any of my marines disobey my orders, they get nothing. No meds, no ammo. If they ask for a weapon, they will not recieve it at any point in the game from me. Sure, i may be an arsehole but people need to remember that NS is about teamwork.
I think, InquisitiveIdiot, that here lies the core of the hypocrisy. The whole Rambo/Ninja separation seems rather silly to me, and yes, I understand the distinction between running off on your own and shooting everything that moves and running off on your own and <i>not</i> shooting everything that moves. Either way, however, you're running off on your own, and possibly even disregarding orders. When this results in a win for your team, you can be rightly praised for it. But when this results in your team failing to fulfill the commander's objectives, which cascades into a long, hard, fall down to the last stand at the CC, you have officially become an ****-munch.
Think of it this way: if someone charged a hive, received medpacks and ammo packs, and spawn-camped the aliens for a couple minutes (to be nicer, say the aliens have a second hive and a second spawn point), and the entire alien team panics and throws itself at him, the commander now has free rein to take the other side of the map.
I think that a well-placed rambo or ninja can lead to victory, and a poorly placed rambo or ninja can lead to defeat. Defeat is nearly <i>certain</i>, however, if the entire marine team decides to rambo or ninja . . . hence the cultural disdain for rambos. A rambo or ninja is nothing without the backing of the standard chain of command, and if everyone decides to ignore orders and do what <i>they</i> think is best for the good of the team, the CC might as well be a box that produces ambient noise.
Sometimes what a commander <i>needs</i> is a rambo or a ninja--but no-one wants to admit that, because everyone would then strive to be the rambo or ninja that the team needs. Hence the hypocrisy.
As for the lucky break: no battle plan survives contact with the enemy. I consider it the mark of an excellent commander when someone can recognise the lucky break and take it.
By the same token, how does hacking not help your team either?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>Most Irrelevant Comment award.</span>
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->When I join any pub-server, I'll join a team, <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>mute everyone on it </span>and then play how I know the game should be played<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>NS requires team communication. You are the problem this topic is addressing. Please stop. Signed- The NS Community</span>
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If any of my marines disobey my orders, they get nothing. People need to remember that NS is about teamwork. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>LOL, the only difference between yelling at your team to do something when you're in the com chair and yelling at them when you're in the field with them is that you actually have the power to spite your team if they don't bow to your whim when you're in the chair. Awesome teamwork indeed. Have you ever recycled base to "teach them a lesson?"
Listen, the only time anyone needs to be out there doing their own thing is when there is nobody else available to do it. One marine who constantly recaps res towers and defends them is very little drain on the marine team, since he's being useful. One marine hiding on the other side of the map because he's afraid of being seen is doing absolutely nothing, no matter how sneaky he thinks he is. Your worth in this game is based on what you are doing RIGHT THIS SECOND to win the game, not what you could be doing in sixty seconds. If you're still taking time to think about where the team needs you the most, you need to follow someone else or listen to the commander. Someone who spawncamps the aliens when they only have one hive and kills them all before they have a chance to escape is doing infinitely more damage to the alien team than the same player if he just let the aliens spawn while hiding and peeing his pants in some corner unseen. The idea isn't to be sneaky. You don't get bonus points for sneakyness. The idea is to do damage to the alien team. If you're not doing significant damage or providing a real danger to the alien team by yourself, such as spawncamping them, killing gestating eggs at the hive, suicide-gunning fresh gorges and alien RTs, or grouping your team to ambush and kill higher level lifeforms, YOU ARE BEING USELESS, and you need to go to the action and be helpful over there.
If you're going to go off on your own, don't just go and hide and convince yourself that you're useful because you're somewhere the aliens aren't looking. You obviously don't understand the game. Just going off somewhere because nobody on the other team is stopping you is useless. You're doing nobody any good until you actually start attacking and killing something.
Winning isn't based on standing in certain places. This isn't Day of Defeat. It's based on killing the enemy's ability to respawn and their ability to buy better stuff. You stop the enemy from spawning, and you win. You stop him from getting better stuff, and you win. You kill hives, RTs, IPs, the armory, and important things, and you win. The idea is to kill any surrounding enemy units as soon as you have the opportunity, and then kill the structures, and kill any enemy forces trying to save it. You do this a lot better when you have two or three teammates who have some idea how to win the game too, with a commander who knows how to win the game watching over the three or four of you as you move towards something valuable, and ideally win the game.
The point is, ninjas work better when they link up to form Supar Ninja Squad 5. It's better when you get all the smart people on your team working together than if you all worked on other sides of the map. Figure out who on your team knows how to play the game. Spawn camping works even better with three guys doing it. Bring a friend next time you see something that the commander needs done.</span>
Im being a ninja when Lucid tells me to get to the enemy hive and sends pro and leech out to distract fades than I duck walk and build a phase into there hive even while they scout it. This planned ramobing is sometimes the only way to win I think eR will attest they've found Squishy in there hive building a pg afew times when they wandered back for some odd reason.
Anyway Ramboing is always bad when the com is competent.
ninja: help the team by being sneaky
rambos: don't help the team and just try to kill.
An example: a ninja would sneak up next to a hive, and wait for a pg
a rambo would gointo the hive and try to spawn camp the aliens
Another example: the ninja would crawl through the vent hoping to get somewhere un-noticed.
the rambo would try to camp the vent, hoping to kill many aliens unnoticed.
Yet another example: If a ninja in a good spot saw an alien walk by, he wouldn't shoot and give away his position.
If a rambo in a good spot saw an alien walk by, he'd chase it down and try to kill it.
So yes, we the commanders are very anti-rambo, but we love the ninjas. dont' confuse them with each other ^_^
EDIT: yeah, if the marine ignores the com's orders, that doesn't help. but if they're smart enough to be a ninja, then they have a good enough understanding of WHEN to ninja and when to follow orders. i.e. if we're attacking a hive and making no progress, the ninja might decide it's better to sneak into the other hive and set up a pg there. While directly contradicting the com's orders, he is still helping the team. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow.. 100% in my mind.. I love camping out in vents though <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Now the regular rambo who just runs of and dies repeatedly is bad. He accomplishes nothing but feeding the aliens res, literally.
I encourage people to rambo, get better aim, kill skulks in around 15 bullets or so and you are doing pretty good (ideally you want to kill them in 9 but that means you cant miss at all). its all about practice <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Ninja = A player who does what is asked, welds and covers, but sometimes also wanders to his merry way -this often resulting that infamous, without-warning, PG-rush to a hive. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
(Oh, I see that others have come up with the same, little distinction as I have <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
In clan play you organise with your team what you are doing beforehand, everyone knows their roles and jump to your orders pretty quickly. You can split them up in to squads and know they aren't going to get lost, die to a random lone skulk or give themselves away without you wanting them to.
In pub play you hope you have some guys on your team who know what you're doing, players will only understand the simplest orders so you end up sending most of them in one big group (at least they'll stick in it). Splitting them up leads to a quick death unless you have two vets/clanners who are working together. You pray for the ninja and sometimes even ask for it so that you can be controlling more territory than your numbers and skills can really hold.
Ninjas are great for lots of things.
1. Securing res nodes while the alien attention is elsewhere
2. Sneaking a pg up to give you better map control
3. Giving you information on what is hapening (you can't be everywhere)
4. RFK Camping (most ninjas have skills enough to do this)
A Ninja understands the maps and the game plan. When I ninja (e.g. sleepy com or given permission) I'll try and do these things. If the com doesn't want an RT then I can check the map and see how best to support my team. If we are attacking elsewhere and I'm across the other side from an RT run then I know it's more handy to cause a distraction, die then rejoin the team than try and leg it across the map.
I guess there is a thin line between ninja and rambo but at the end of the day even a rambo can do some good. No one wants to lose and when they realise things are going bad they sometimes listen.
anyway some random comments, enjoy,
Meto
That is why I dislike Rambos.
A Ninja tries to win by putting the commander/team in a advantagous position...
That is why I love Ninjas.
However, both a team and Rambos and a team of Ninjas is equally as useless.
Teamwork ownz all.
you rambo, u kill 5 skulks, u die
worth it
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo-->
lack orders? No stuff? Rambo. i call this recon. hell, mostly I even ask the comm if its ok. But point is, no work? do so.
Yet usualyl you will have work. then indeed TEAMwork. obey. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Yea? Then you aren't a rambo, because you actually ASK something like that. Rambo never asks anything (beside maybe for equipment... in a very loud tone...)
<i>I'm going undercover, guys...</i> <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Because the marine team depends on him to win. He's hated, he's cursed, he's reviled - but he's needed.
Think about it. How often are marine victories entirely dependent on single marines that zig instead of zag, that vent crawl into obscure spots, that build the pg that allows the rest of the team to secure a hive? Compare that with the number of games won with teamwork alone - every key point taken and secured by large groups of marines outnumbering and outgunning any opposition that stands in their way. The very existence of jetpacks should give you an indication.
My complaint is not with the rambo, but with the hypocrisy present in his damnation. Either the rambo is an accepted part of NS, or he is not. If he is accepted, then stop whining. If not, greatly increase the build time of a single marine, so that two or more marines are needed to establish any structure in a reasonable amount of time. Or at least PGs, RTs, and TFs. Either of these paths should even up the disparity between what is desired and what is required. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The occasional Rambo can be important, but the problem is when everyone is rambo. It's hard to get anything done when rines do things on their own, and the aliens work as a team. Every real Comm knows that maybe 1 or in a big game 2 people should be rambos, but any more and nothing would get done and rines would be ambushed.
Its just that rambo's who make a lot of noise and try to kill stuff on their own won't have that much succes as a tight working squad that takes a nice amount of rt's and covers each others back.
And those "rambo's" that make a pg and stuff.... ah well, its just that those guys look on the map, and if they have Motion Tracking, they can see where the kharaa are and where they run most of the time, so that is why they can _Sneak_ to the hive, and start whi....asking for a Phasegate <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I would love it to see a team making groups of 2 which all have their own task, like:
-Getting Rt's.
-Patrol around to keep those Rt's.
-Attack Kharaa Rt's.
And a bigger group to take out Hive's
LONG LIVE TEAMWORK
(And the smart guy who evades every Kharaa dog ..errr Skulk, and brings up the important Phase Gate)
I think the problem is defining a rambo, everyone has a slight variant on a rambo from what they see a marine doing, to knowing what that marines intentions are.
I think you can split them into two categories to begin with..
people who rambo in tournement
and
people who rambo in public.
because really, in a tournement it can be a valuble strategy, but must be pre-determined!! - sometimes accidently a marine finds himself on his own.. the way back is fraught with danger.. so he heads off forward and can very usfull.
in public it can be annoying, accidently usefull, or just fun!
commanders in public games will often complain about them because they are wanting to try something in particular, or if the game is failing that is what he will blame.
you also have to think that the commander has a great to deal to think about.. and occasionally a marine will see things from a different perspective go off on his own and acheive miracles. sometimes **** it up completley..
I think everyone should train themselves to rambo.. because most of the time you will find yourself on your own, with the commander depending upon you to do something. sometimes tho it is better than you die and respawn.
So it comes down to the particular rambo in question and what his motivations are! sometimes they are instinctive motives, deliberate or coincidental.
but its only really public games that anyone ever complains about them.. and as aliens arent complaining about them, and i rarly see a marine complaining (too busy doing whatever to notice) so it narrows it down to commanders..
in that case..
I would argue that the commander doesnt have much influence or leadership over his crew if he is having to complain about them.
I've seen many commanders who are very good leaders, contstantly on the mic issuing orders, disiplining people who fall out of line and encouraging marines to acheive mini missions.
Commanders need to realise that way points are usless! how many times have you gone towards a way point and found the place swarming.. or you've got a way point that hasnt changed for ages.. do you just sit there and do nothing, knowing that the commander has forgotton, or do you go off and try make yourself usefull?
In a public game it doesnt bother me.. I work with them, if we lose, so what?.. public is just the training arena for clan matches.
A rambo is often just a bored soldier, so its up to the commander to provide adequate motivation. if that still doesnt work.. leave them to their own devices for they have the tenacity and gumption to become heroes, or not.
SADE-yX