Whos seen this bug in CS/CZ where you are looking at a player and it appears they are looking away from you when they are in fact facing you? It sems to have appeared more frequently over the past 4-6 weeks.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<snip>
Lots of comments, it appears related to all HL games and not just CS and it appears to have been in far longer than 4-6 weeks. I don't know if this applies only to offical mods or to all mods.
We've found and fixed this problem. We'll be releasing the fix soon. Thanks, everyone, for your efforts to help find clues about the problem.
Eric Smith Valve 05-10-2004 01:17 PM <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Just the backwards facing player issue, or all the hitbox issues? Or at least most of them.
Or is the Hitbox issue a function of the backwards facing player issue or is the hitboxes issue something else entirely?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It appears these issues where related to the new model blending system on steam HL games to make models appear more realistic being able to turn at the waist without turning their legs. This has been in a long time and so, very likely, has the bug.
This bug might be related to this issue, especially if won ns3.0b4 does not excibit the same issue.
edit: ... left out an important point, this fix has not yet been released. I think they needed time to test it and what with e3 and all they've been generally busy with other stuff.
I have seen this bug before however, the bug which i reported about in under another heading, happens all the time to this one individual. It appears that this individual has the bug and has it 24-7, and always gets outrageous scores and only realy registers damage when he stand still. He either never registers damage when he moves around or if he does it is so small he regens it right back in seconds.
I work at a net cafe, and earlier on (just after i took second set of demo's) all players on LAN that were connecting to the same server were all bugged. Players were Wild_Bill, ^PilotBoy^, Rhyno, NIGHT CRAWLER and myself. They all complained about bites / shots not registering, and when i took some demos and then reviewd them i myself spotted the hampering bug that i spoke of in my first post in this thread. I checked choke and loss across all computers that were being played on and it was a steady 0 / 0 or 1 / 0. Choke never went over 2 or 3, and loss never went over 0. If the client side prediction isn't sampling fast enough, then prehaps this is what's causing the bug ? Then it would only require a very small amount of choke or loss to create the bug, and cause client side prediction to either register shots better (further away bites, seemingly better marine shot registering) or cause a hampering to playing as bites shots etc aren't registered properly. In the first demo of my newest set, bug.dem, you'll notice that the light machine gun shot that i get shot with when going for the first kill takes of 22 damage ! this is much more than a lvl3 lmg is supposed to do!
I'll keep you posted about the bugs, demo recording status, and i am able to host the demos at a speed up to 150kb/sec. I can only host up to 20mb tho, so it'll only be my personal demos. You can find the demo's at www.arach.net.au/~azap3730/nsp.rar. This is a direct link to the demos. If you're demos are small, i may host you're demo's as well, just remember that i'll double check them for content and a txt file saying what the highlights are in the demo's. Thanks for that idea Sarisel, it'll make the demo veiwing much faster and more accurate.
Another couple of demos, with client side prediction turned off. www.arach.net.au/~azap3730/predictionoff.rar
Notice how when i fire, it's the same lag as if ihave a ping of 200 or so. I did have a little choke / loss as you can see if you set net_graph to 3, and my ping did go as high as 120 / 130 but it's still an acceptable level. I shouldn't have had a problem aiming or killing enemy units. Anyway, have a look at the demo's yourself. A particular highlight is the section on i think cleint3 where i have a one on one with a skulk near subspace hive in nancy.
I'm going to try changing servers for a while, to get rid of the small choke / loss i'm getting to see if that makes a difference to the bug.
Whos seen this bug in CS/CZ where you are looking at a player and it appears they are looking away from you when they are in fact facing you? It sems to have appeared more frequently over the past 4-6 weeks.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<snip>
Lots of comments, it appears related to all HL games and not just CS and it appears to have been in far longer than 4-6 weeks. I don't know if this applies only to offical mods or to all mods.
We've found and fixed this problem. We'll be releasing the fix soon. Thanks, everyone, for your efforts to help find clues about the problem.
Eric Smith Valve 05-10-2004 01:17 PM <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Just the backwards facing player issue, or all the hitbox issues? Or at least most of them.
Or is the Hitbox issue a function of the backwards facing player issue or is the hitboxes issue something else entirely?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It appears these issues where related to the new model blending system on steam HL games to make models appear more realistic being able to turn at the waist without turning their legs. This has been in a long time and so, very likely, has the bug.
This bug might be related to this issue, especially if won ns3.0b4 does not excibit the same issue.
edit: ... left out an important point, this fix has not yet been released. I think they needed time to test it and what with e3 and all they've been generally busy with other stuff. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Reading everything in this thread makes sence.
In NS it seems to be more apparent due to the nature of the game and the fact that it has the fastest moving targets in every mod.
Great facts and good job.
Lets just hope its the B-all End-all, and it comes out soon.
Soylent green, Can you get us a link to the forum inwhich this discussion took place?
Sarisel.::' ( O ) ';:-. .-.:;' ( O ) '::.Join Date: 2003-07-30Member: 18557Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-Sexy_Tool+May 19 2004, 04:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sexy_Tool @ May 19 2004, 04:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I work at a net cafe, and earlier on (just after i took second set of demo's) all players on LAN that were connecting to the same server were all bugged. Players were Wild_Bill, ^PilotBoy^, Rhyno, NIGHT CRAWLER and myself. They all complained about bites / shots not registering, and when i took some demos and then reviewd them i myself spotted the hampering bug that i spoke of in my first post in this thread. I checked choke and loss across all computers that were being played on and it was a steady 0 / 0 or 1 / 0. Choke never went over 2 or 3, and loss never went over 0. If the client side prediction isn't sampling fast enough, then prehaps this is what's causing the bug ? Then it would only require a very small amount of choke or loss to create the bug, and cause client side prediction to either register shots better (further away bites, seemingly better marine shot registering) or cause a hampering to playing as bites shots etc aren't registered properly. In the first demo of my newest set, bug.dem, you'll notice that the light machine gun shot that i get shot with when going for the first kill takes of 22 damage ! this is much more than a lvl3 lmg is supposed to do!
I'll keep you posted about the bugs, demo recording status, and i am able to host the demos at a speed up to 150kb/sec. I can only host up to 20mb tho, so it'll only be my personal demos. You can find the demo's at www.arach.net.au/~azap3730/nsp.rar. This is a direct link to the demos. If you're demos are small, i may host you're demo's as well, just remember that i'll double check them for content and a txt file saying what the highlights are in the demo's. Thanks for that idea Sarisel, it'll make the demo veiwing much faster and more accurate. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> - Sexy tool
For your first demo, bug.dem, you demonstrate a little bit of the 'magical barrier' effect (you can hear shots 'hitting' you, but no damage) - and I see your point with the one bullet doing 22 damage, which is strange. Level 3 lmg does 13 damage per bullet.
Your second demo is normal, however, since you miss the marine with your bites (play at 1/4 of the normal speed). He gets one medpack per resupply, which allows him to take 2 more bites, to which you contribute one and your fellow skulk another one.
In your second set of demos, you... simply miss your shots. Perhaps you were lagging or your mouse was acting up, but there's really nothing to comment on.
Sarisel i suggest you watch the bug2 demo again, as i have watched it at 1/4 speed and 1/5 speed. I did not miss, indeed i was close enough to bite all players that i was aiming at. With the first marine, considering the rotation of the marine model and my rotation i should still have gotten him. Think about it in this way when you are watching the demo: 50% of players have a bite range of one foot. The rest have a bite range of up to five feet. If you watch that demo again, you'll realise my bite range is only point blank. It's incorrect as the game was obviously designed to have a 1 foot bite range if over %50 of the players have that range.
Sarisel.::' ( O ) ';:-. .-.:;' ( O ) '::.Join Date: 2003-07-30Member: 18557Members, Constellation
edited May 2004
Bite ranges are also inconsistent, but what I was referring to was that you missed - you never managed to land a bite on the marine. The normal range for bite is not really that great - a little less than one foot as far as I remember. Mostly, the inconsistencies are due to a combination of latency differences, lagging hitboxes, and just lag. This isn't the same as PSHB, where your bites actually land and the sound of the bite landing is made but no damage is taken by the marine.
I reviewed the demo, and for the first marine you get one near-bite on before he goes down. For the second marine, you miss just about everything after your first bite (not even looking at the marine), and then you land one a bit later, at which point the other skulk finishes the marine off.
Yes Sarisel i have thought of that. I also said as part of one of my original posts in this thread that i think there is a reverse of the PSHB lag, where actions lik this are occuring. I have no choke or loss what so ever when taking on the shotgun marine, and also notice that just after he dodges adn receives a med pack, i leap then bite. There IS a bite sound, yet no blood. I'm not suggesting this is PSHB Sarisel, i am suggesting that this is a bug that is related to PSHB and i am researching it in the hops of trying to find the cause of both bugs. We know without a doubt that player hitboxes are lagging, and that the PSHB effect does exist, but i'm trying to prove here that there is a reverse of this bug where the player is hampered in some way and is easier to kill, not harder. The demo called bug2 clearly shows the existance of such a bug. I strongly request that you re-watch the demo, watching closely at the bite ranges and sounds that i make when attacking.
I can tell the first bite against the first marine in that demo should have landed, because when you look at the angle which i leapt at the shotgun marine (2nd encounter) you notice that i DID make a bite sound. Even to the side, you can bite as far away as 2 feet. Do not think that merely because i was looking away from him that i did not bite him.
<!--QuoteBegin-TyrNemesis^+May 18 2004, 06:56 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TyrNemesis^ @ May 18 2004, 06:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->We shall see. cross your fingers.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Seconded--if Valve's fix corrects at least part of the problems, I'll be happy; if this stuff is still happening after the fix is released we (NS coders) will have to continue trying to look for our own answers. It can be frustrating when you don't have access to engine source <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
We've had reports that changing netcode settings affected the shotgun bug, so I'd like to see if that's affected too.
For those of you keeping score at home, the sparking bug is #562 in Mantis (high priority, blocking). I don't believe the player-specific hit box bug is in Mantis yet, but I'm paying close attention to what's going on here and hoping for a reproducible pattern.
<!--QuoteBegin-Sarisel+May 20 2004, 04:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sarisel @ May 20 2004, 04:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I see your point with the one bullet doing 22 damage, which is strange. Level 3 lmg does 13 damage per bullet. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> This is likely an instance of a bug that I spent a while working on: the excessive damage bug. Sometimes marine projectile weapons (excluding grenades) do signifigantly higher - can exceed double - damage per round fired. The bug effects each round individually, and though it's relatively uncommon, can result in an onos going from 500 hp to dead in a few shots. Not a few bursts of fire, mind you, literally a few shots: i.e. 5 bullets.
I know exactly what u mean, i had a very strange instance of this bug awhile ago. i was onos and i remember that i had about 200 armour with about 500 hp. i went down from about 2-3 close range shotty blasts. i dont know if that is possible or not and i dont think the marines had lv3 weps
i dunno....
Maybe all of these hitbox issues are all related in some way..
Well what we need i evidence guys. If you start noticing that really close range bites that *should* be connecting, aren't connecting, then start demoing =] As i have said, if you're demo's are small then i will host them. The best way to demo is to start just before you run into combat, and then stop as soon as you die / come out of the combat area. This will keep the demo's short and small, and people will take the time to look at them if they clearly and quickly show the bug in action. Good luck to you all.
Get cloud king's demo of fila, seraph... or ask virus to get it ... he was hella bugged in a pug about a week ago, like the worst I'd ever seen, and renholder, crime, cracka, cirus, and lordy all saw... crime took a good 35 minute demo of him skulking, fading, and gorging.
Upon looking at it closer, I see only one person claiming this bug has been in a lot longer than a ~2 months, so I could easily be wrong about this, sorry I should have checked this closer last time. And one guy near the end seems pretty convinced this bug is a major problem for NS but he doesn't give any convincing argument <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You CS guys have it easy this bug only effects a guy not looking at you.
If you play NS you will really see how this Bug totally screws with a game.
Another 2 days past. Maybe Friday, that seems to be when most updates are released.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There are similar threads mentioning and discussing this bug on the steam forums.
I appreciate what you've done with this post to clear things up. To you noobs who are thinking about posting stupid things like "OMG I couldn't hit this guy": DON'T. I am going to add that about 90% of "bugged" players in pubs are just the result of bad aim. Why? Because I have been repeditivly accused of being bugged (and this is by my fellow clanmates who are EXTREMELY accurate shooters) everyday I join the server. Obviously this is not possible because I restart every day, but I do notice that I can easily mow down a group of 4 marines with a skulk and still come out with over 20 hp. Here is my solution to this: A) the obvious- they can't aim B) the other point we need to address: Team shot blocking Team shot blocking can also be a VERY intricate part of why you may not be landing your shots even though you hear the "impact" So in conlcusion this post is to prevent anyone encountering a "bugged" player during the aforementioned scenarios from posting here.
Really anthony? I'm bugged easily 1/2 the time i join a server =] It's either the bug i'm trying to prove ATM where it's easier for myself to be killed, or i'v got the PSHB bug. People on LAN with me connecting to the same server also get the bug, just in different strengths. I don't need to point out that even when i have the retardation bug i can still easily be on top, my accuracy when i want it to be, can be as high as 80-90 percent. When i say i don't miss, i can be damn sure i didn't miss, that is what convinced me that PSHB exists, because Sarisel had a reasonable explanation for what i've been seeing. If you want confirmation of both bugs, watch my demos, as well as the toxseries that Sarisel put together. The last point i should give is that i'm a rambo, i never head out with more than 1 team mate, so team blocking isn't an issue.
Not player specific. 100% reproducable. Credit goes to |Co-NS|Superfreak for finding it. MP drawdamage and 5% handicap server. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Very nice. This is the <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=70346' target='_blank'>invisible magical barrier</a>, only that here is proof that it isn't just a decal issue.
Well, theres 2 things there. Hitbox rotation goes along with playerview, where you see him shooting the air infront of the Skulks center. The other bit was just playing around with the magical barrier <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
here's a counterstrike avi demonstrating a similar hitbox bug. this is the bug that results from the model hitbox blending, and it seems similar to the one in ns.
unfortunately they don't test shooting at the guy while he's moving.
also, if i can find a host, i have a demo of #cri. vs exigent UGL co match on daimos, where crimeking is definitely bugged. he blinks in on a room with 2-3 exi. HMGs and loses no more then 100 hp. can anyone provide me with a host?
edit: <a href='http://www.ampednews.com/?page=demos&id=205' target='_blank'>http://www.ampednews.com/?page=demos&id=205</a> | pain`user perspective on same match
Sarisel.::' ( O ) ';:-. .-.:;' ( O ) '::.Join Date: 2003-07-30Member: 18557Members, Constellation
In regards to #cri.meking's fading vs exigent in the ugl co finals on co_daimos, there is an .avi movie of his fading which I think you can download off #cri's public ftp. I also thought that he was bugged.
i linked it in my clan forums and will start looking out for it now <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
In regards to sexy_tool and InSaInE's server requests, provided it's at a non-peak time and the server is also empty, I don't see any problem in both locking and participating in tests. Intruiging bug.
Since the other day I was able to fix the ex_interp to .05 I started noticing alot of public players with teleporting models, the regulars who visit our forums have had instructions on how to optimize the netcode so they were just fine. (no teleporting) So I went through some of the causes. Changed ex_interp to .1 (default) and it removed the teleporting but then I had the problem of laggy hitboxes. So I went back to .05. Then I checked the servers sv_minupdaterate and maxupdaterate, both set to 40. Finally I asked the two players what their settings were. Their rate was fine both at 20000, BUT they both had a cl_updaterate of 15. Below the default 20 and way below the minupdaterate of the server 40. I proceeded to ask them to change their cl_updaterate to 40. After which they no longer had the teleporting problem. Highly reproducable!
My thoughts:
Maybe this PSHB bug is just a combination of players with low cl_updaterate which is being hidden by the high ex_interp.
This wouldnt explain why cri.meking was bugged since Im pretty sure he doesnt have a fubare'd netcode. This might be one cause, but I really think that the "invisible barrier" makes a big difference too.
Comments
Whos seen this bug in CS/CZ where you are looking at a player and it appears they are looking away from you when they are in fact facing you? It sems to have appeared more frequently over the past 4-6 weeks.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<snip>
Lots of comments, it appears related to all HL games and not just CS and it appears to have been in far longer than 4-6 weeks. I don't know if this applies only to offical mods or to all mods.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->EricS
We've found and fixed this problem. We'll be releasing the fix soon. Thanks, everyone, for your efforts to help find clues about the problem.
Eric Smith
Valve
05-10-2004 01:17 PM <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Just the backwards facing player issue, or all the hitbox issues? Or at least most of them.
Or is the Hitbox issue a function of the backwards facing player issue or is the hitboxes issue something else entirely?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->They're all related...and fixed.
-Eric
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It appears these issues where related to the new model blending system on steam HL games to make models appear more realistic being able to turn at the waist without turning their legs. This has been in a long time and so, very likely, has the bug.
This bug might be related to this issue, especially if won ns3.0b4 does not excibit the same issue.
edit: ... left out an important point, this fix has not yet been released. I think they needed time to test it and what with e3 and all they've been generally busy with other stuff.
I'll keep you posted about the bugs, demo recording status, and i am able to host the demos at a speed up to 150kb/sec. I can only host up to 20mb tho, so it'll only be my personal demos. You can find the demo's at www.arach.net.au/~azap3730/nsp.rar. This is a direct link to the demos. If you're demos are small, i may host you're demo's as well, just remember that i'll double check them for content and a txt file saying what the highlights are in the demo's. Thanks for that idea Sarisel, it'll make the demo veiwing much faster and more accurate.
www.arach.net.au/~azap3730/predictionoff.rar
Notice how when i fire, it's the same lag as if ihave a ping of 200 or so.
I did have a little choke / loss as you can see if you set net_graph to 3, and my ping did go as high as 120 / 130 but it's still an acceptable level. I shouldn't have had a problem aiming or killing enemy units. Anyway, have a look at the demo's yourself. A particular highlight is the section on i think cleint3 where i have a one on one with a skulk near subspace hive in nancy.
I'm going to try changing servers for a while, to get rid of the small choke / loss i'm getting to see if that makes a difference to the bug.
Whos seen this bug in CS/CZ where you are looking at a player and it appears they are looking away from you when they are in fact facing you? It sems to have appeared more frequently over the past 4-6 weeks.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<snip>
Lots of comments, it appears related to all HL games and not just CS and it appears to have been in far longer than 4-6 weeks. I don't know if this applies only to offical mods or to all mods.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->EricS
We've found and fixed this problem. We'll be releasing the fix soon. Thanks, everyone, for your efforts to help find clues about the problem.
Eric Smith
Valve
05-10-2004 01:17 PM <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Just the backwards facing player issue, or all the hitbox issues? Or at least most of them.
Or is the Hitbox issue a function of the backwards facing player issue or is the hitboxes issue something else entirely?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->They're all related...and fixed.
-Eric
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It appears these issues where related to the new model blending system on steam HL games to make models appear more realistic being able to turn at the waist without turning their legs. This has been in a long time and so, very likely, has the bug.
This bug might be related to this issue, especially if won ns3.0b4 does not excibit the same issue.
edit: ... left out an important point, this fix has not yet been released. I think they needed time to test it and what with e3 and all they've been generally busy with other stuff. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Reading everything in this thread makes sence.
In NS it seems to be more apparent due to the nature of the game and the fact that it has the fastest moving targets in every mod.
Great facts and good job.
Lets just hope its the B-all End-all, and it comes out soon.
Soylent green, Can you get us a link to the forum inwhich this discussion took place?
I'll keep you posted about the bugs, demo recording status, and i am able to host the demos at a speed up to 150kb/sec. I can only host up to 20mb tho, so it'll only be my personal demos. You can find the demo's at www.arach.net.au/~azap3730/nsp.rar. This is a direct link to the demos. If you're demos are small, i may host you're demo's as well, just remember that i'll double check them for content and a txt file saying what the highlights are in the demo's. Thanks for that idea Sarisel, it'll make the demo veiwing much faster and more accurate. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
- Sexy tool
For your first demo, bug.dem, you demonstrate a little bit of the 'magical barrier' effect (you can hear shots 'hitting' you, but no damage) - and I see your point with the one bullet doing 22 damage, which is strange. Level 3 lmg does 13 damage per bullet.
Your second demo is normal, however, since you miss the marine with your bites (play at 1/4 of the normal speed). He gets one medpack per resupply, which allows him to take 2 more bites, to which you contribute one and your fellow skulk another one.
In your second set of demos, you... simply miss your shots. Perhaps you were lagging or your mouse was acting up, but there's really nothing to comment on.
I reviewed the demo, and for the first marine you get one near-bite on before he goes down. For the second marine, you miss just about everything after your first bite (not even looking at the marine), and then you land one a bit later, at which point the other skulk finishes the marine off.
I can tell the first bite against the first marine in that demo should have landed, because when you look at the angle which i leapt at the shotgun marine (2nd encounter) you notice that i DID make a bite sound. Even to the side, you can bite as far away as 2 feet. Do not think that merely because i was looking away from him that i did not bite him.
Seconded--if Valve's fix corrects at least part of the problems, I'll be happy; if this stuff is still happening after the fix is released we (NS coders) will have to continue trying to look for our own answers. It can be frustrating when you don't have access to engine source <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
We've had reports that changing netcode settings affected the shotgun bug, so I'd like to see if that's affected too.
For those of you keeping score at home, the sparking bug is #562 in Mantis (high priority, blocking). I don't believe the player-specific hit box bug is in Mantis yet, but I'm paying close attention to what's going on here and hoping for a reproducible pattern.
This is likely an instance of a bug that I spent a while working on: the excessive damage bug. Sometimes marine projectile weapons (excluding grenades) do signifigantly higher - can exceed double - damage per round fired. The bug effects each round individually, and though it's relatively uncommon, can result in an onos going from 500 hp to dead in a few shots. Not a few bursts of fire, mind you, literally a few shots: i.e. 5 bullets.
i was onos and i remember that i had about 200 armour with about 500 hp. i went down from about 2-3 close range shotty blasts. i dont know if that is possible or not and i dont think the marines had lv3 weps
i dunno....
Maybe all of these hitbox issues are all related in some way..
Just a theory
As i have said, if you're demo's are small then i will host them. The best way to demo is to start just before you run into combat, and then stop as soon as you die / come out of the combat area. This will keep the demo's short and small, and people will take the time to look at them if they clearly and quickly show the bug in action. Good luck to you all.
Get cloud king's demo of fila, seraph... or ask virus to get it ... he was hella bugged in a pug about a week ago, like the worst I'd ever seen, and renholder, crime, cracka, cirus, and lordy all saw... crime took a good 35 minute demo of him skulking, fading, and gorging.
(edit: bah, why did I link to page 6...)
Upon looking at it closer, I see only one person claiming this bug has been in a lot longer than a ~2 months, so I could easily be wrong about this, sorry I should have checked this closer last time. And one guy near the end seems pretty convinced this bug is a major problem for NS but he doesn't give any convincing argument <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You CS guys have it easy this bug only effects a guy not looking at you.
If you play NS you will really see how this Bug totally screws with a game.
Another 2 days past. Maybe Friday, that seems to be when most updates are released.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There are similar threads mentioning and discussing this bug on the steam forums.
A) the obvious- they can't aim
B) the other point we need to address: Team shot blocking
Team shot blocking can also be a VERY intricate part of why you may not be landing your shots even though you hear the "impact"
So in conlcusion this post is to prevent anyone encountering a "bugged" player during the aforementioned scenarios from posting here.
It's either the bug i'm trying to prove ATM where it's easier for myself to be killed, or i'v got the PSHB bug. People on LAN with me connecting to the same server also get the bug, just in different strengths. I don't need to point out that even when i have the retardation bug i can still easily be on top, my accuracy when i want it to be, can be as high as 80-90 percent. When i say i don't miss, i can be damn sure i didn't miss, that is what convinced me that PSHB exists, because Sarisel had a reasonable explanation for what i've been seeing. If you want confirmation of both bugs, watch my demos, as well as the toxseries that Sarisel put together. The last point i should give is that i'm a rambo, i never head out with more than 1 team mate, so team blocking isn't an issue.
Not player specific. 100% reproducable. Credit goes to |Co-NS|Superfreak for finding it. MP drawdamage and 5% handicap server.
Not player specific. 100% reproducable. Credit goes to |Co-NS|Superfreak for finding it. MP drawdamage and 5% handicap server. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Very nice. This is the <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=70346' target='_blank'>invisible magical barrier</a>, only that here is proof that it isn't just a decal issue.
<a href='http://www.future-servers.de/teamy/cs-model-hitboxes-avi.zip' target='_blank'>http://www.future-servers.de/teamy/cs-model-hitboxes-avi.zip</a>
unfortunately they don't test shooting at the guy while he's moving.
also, if i can find a host, i have a demo of #cri. vs exigent UGL co match on daimos, where crimeking is definitely bugged. he blinks in on a room with 2-3 exi. HMGs and loses no more then 100 hp. can anyone provide me with a host?
edit: <a href='http://www.ampednews.com/?page=demos&id=205' target='_blank'>http://www.ampednews.com/?page=demos&id=205</a> | pain`user perspective on same match
We're looking into a separate hitbox issue at the moment.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Looks like they cought on to some more bugs while sorting out the first.
Did the latest Steam update fix anything?
Since the other day I was able to fix the ex_interp to .05 I started noticing alot of public players with teleporting models, the regulars who visit our forums have had instructions on how to optimize the netcode so they were just fine. (no teleporting) So I went through some of the causes. Changed ex_interp to .1 (default) and it removed the teleporting but then I had the problem of laggy hitboxes. So I went back to .05. Then I checked the servers sv_minupdaterate and maxupdaterate, both set to 40. Finally I asked the two players what their settings were. Their rate was fine both at 20000, BUT they both had a cl_updaterate of 15. Below the default 20 and way below the minupdaterate of the server 40. I proceeded to ask them to change their cl_updaterate to 40. After which they no longer had the teleporting problem. Highly reproducable!
My thoughts:
Maybe this PSHB bug is just a combination of players with low cl_updaterate which is being hidden by the high ex_interp.
Not sure but its just something I noticed.
Emanon
This might be one cause, but I really think that the "invisible barrier" makes a big difference too.