SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
me too. btw. I opened this thread at modguide <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I played just 3 games with unchained chambers, but those games were really fun. The most wanted chamber was the sensory chamber <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Schimmel+Jun 12 2004, 04:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Schimmel @ Jun 12 2004, 04:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> me too. btw. I opened this thread at modguide <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I played just 3 games with unchained chambers, but those games were really fun. The most wanted chamber was the sensory chamber <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> just got off of tactical gamer, played two rounds on... whats it called? taintith i believe... GREAT games.
the first one i joined the game was already lost to marines... they pushed out and got a bunch of nodes and we had none when i got there.
The second one rines relocated to double. we got a defense up in cargo to stop them from taking fusion, but they pushed through anyways using med spam and quick feet. The rines destroyed the building hive unfortunetly, and then They sieged cargo for a little bit from fusion, but we managed to get a few nodes around the map (even got waste hive up!) while they were busy clearing cargo. I went onos (2 hives) for stomp spam. Managed to take down fusion, but they sieged waste... I movemented over there and stomped for the skulks (i was the only high life form for a while). and we managed to hold them off, but then they sieged Satcomm and got the thing down. I hit their main in retaliation and managed to get out with 50 HP... taking out a armory and a arms lab in the assault. While they rebuilt i went over to satcom and cleared the PG they had setup.... but then the rines hit frekin WASTE, I managed to get the gorge to build a MC and movemented over there but they got it down, i MCed outtta there with 150 HP left back to satcom. There we were with one hive building, a Onos, a fade with no blink (AKA: bigger slower skulk), and a few skulks. I went to secure fusion and when satcom went up someone built the hive at fusion. I went to waste and cleared it out (nothing there... they just left it). Went to their main... No one was there. Me and the fade started hacking away, and no one showed up. I heard a beacon and laughed... we had a gorge build 10+ OCs in Marine start. We decimated their main and then moved on to marine start (where they relocated) By then we had 2 onos and a fade... they were screwed.
A very good game over all, laughs and "gg"s were shared among all. I think the marines got down 4 hives through the whole game. it moved so fast its hard to remember it all. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Ive played with it a few times on Tactical Gamers server, so far its worked out well.
Gave aliens than much need flexibility, but marines were never unfairly effected by it. It was actually rare to see more than 1 chamber at level 3 before a 2nd hive due to the costs involved in doing that.
It was great being a gorge and having a bit of tactical control instead of just griding out the required structures. I found myself constantly assessing the player movements. Seeing where my team might need chamber support and judging the best time and place to build them without getting killed. Good stuff.
<u>chamber run down</u>
<b>DC</b> As usuall, dc was the prerequisite for the fades, same deal as always.
<b>MC</b> Usually a gorge would secure a single mc at the first hive to allow reinforcements to the 2nd while its building. With ff on you could attack the hive get your whole team over before the marines arrived. I can imagine the commander sending people to take out the hive1 mcs in order to counter this strat. Since aliens have to leave this mc out in the open, this wouldnt be hard. Forward mcs havent been common.
<b>SC</b> Usually someone would spend 20 res at the start to get one in a prime spot, usually in a vent or something. The effectiveness of this strat was very map dependant, a hard one to balance i expect. Level 1 SOF was good for staying alive as gorge and was a great scouting upgrade (less rambo pg!). It will be interesting to see how easy comms will counter a SC strat. I noticed obs were often built at siege spots as an extra precaution. Might be worth using cloaking a little just to make the comm paranoid like this <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Only a week or so in and already unique strats develop. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
So far I have only used the plugin on my LAN-party games, and there I've found the main uses are Silent/Cloaked skulks or Cloaked gorges. Once you get mid game (2 hives) people generally use a Defence and a Movement upgrade anyway.
Still, I like the fact that they have the OPTION to use a sense.
Btw, link to Modns AMX Anti-DMS plugin: <a href='http://www.modns.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=550' target='_blank'>http://www.modns.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=550</a>
History/Changelog: <!--c1--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1--> * 31.05.04 - 1.0 o Initial release * 01.06.04 - 1.1 o Readded sound when building chambers o (Hopefully) fixed bug where chambers were for free * 02.06.04 - 1.2 o Plugin now automatically turns off in combat o Correctly compiled .amx included this time;) o Code improvements * 08.06.04 - 1.3 o New method for unlocking hives. o No longer requires CMATH o Default spawn method used, because it's less buggy * 08.06.04 - 1.4 o Updated version! Only needed for Linux * 10.06.04 - 1.5 o Removed chained lifeforms <!--c2--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
<!--QuoteBegin-UKchaos+Jun 13 2004, 03:58 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (UKchaos @ Jun 13 2004, 03:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Forward mcs havent been common. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Now i know thats not true... I've built them AND used them equally. They are great for central locations (I'm thinking double here) for the big slow creatures (onos, gorge) to move around the map pretty fast. Now if only we could teleport to every hive instead of just the furthest ones... But with FF i guess thats not to big of a problem for the time being.
Allow all chambers to be built at first hive, but only 1 upgrade per hive.
due to cost and # of resnodes, it would be impossible for aliens to dominate off the bat, but leaves space for a reliable strategy actually using chambers.
1- "Second hive is going up, someone go drop a sensory in it!"
2- "OK I'll do it, lemme drop a movement here first, someone bite the hive"
1- "Rgr, are you fade yet, man?"
3- "Yea but I only have 2 DC's, someone get the last one!"
4- "Can't no res.."
5, 6, 1, 2 - "Same"
=P
Also, movements need to be like PG's and teleport from MC to MC, not hive to hive... just make like, the hive upgradeable, for a cost, kinda like upgrading PG's... or make the chambers upgrade with hives, something like that. Like for MC's you can use them as PG's at 2nd hive. For DC's the range heals for each hive, and for sens, the time for cloaking or range upgrades per hive...
Interesting games guys, I haven't played any servers with unchained chambers, but I like what I'm hearing. Seeing the alienswith more versatile strats, and seeing marines have to counter it is great. And add the fact I don't hear any "OGM TOO OVERPOWERED" threads makes me optimistic. Have any developer's weighed in on this at all?
As I mentioned earlier, CoFR FR31NS would be testing the unchained mod soon. Well, the day is here! The server is now unchained! Come help us test out this modification and see whether this should become a permanent change! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Server: [CoFR]FR31NS IP: 64.246.102.61:27015
Let us know what you think. Your participation on the server could directly impact how long this mod stays installed! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also, movements need to be like PG's and teleport from MC to MC, not hive to hive... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Unfortunately I believe that's impossible; Onoses need the hive spawn locations in order to spawn without getting stuck.
In this sense, MCs are more like personal-use beacons than phase gates.
Back on topic, I've tried some unchained servers and it's been good fun. I like how aliens have a choice of what to build where. You have to consider the chamber effect, the position, the timing, and of course, the <i>cost.</i>
the only downside (for aliens) ive seen mentioned throughout these threads is:
in the case where aliens lose the second hive. the current system still allows two upgrades (assuming those MCs went down in time) the proposed system allows only one to any player spawned after the 2nd hive has died.
Well, that's actually another point in unchaining's favor, I think. People earlier were afraid too much emphasis would be taken away from hives, making them almost worthless. This facet here keeps that emphasis up.
I only play unchained servers now. Anything else is just too bland. Whether or not unchained servers are balanced, it makes the game more Fun. For both sides, I'd like to emphasize... marines having to deal with cloaking is actually really interesting and fun and adreniline pumping! Asking the commander to drop a scan in the area feels great, and "Hunt the SC" is a new enjoyable mini-game!
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I only play unchained servers now. Anything else is just too bland. Whether or not unchained servers are balanced, it makes the game more Fun. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Same here. I just can't play standard NS now; I've tasted the sweet ambrosia of unchaining and anything else is mere tapwater.
Btw, when the heck are we getting beta 5? Anyone got some inside information?
This idea sounds great. Flayra really should try this. Nowadays marines have so good aim that aliens lose almost everytime (If there's a good comm ofcourse). This new system would give the game a very nice effect. All games I play in public are so boring because the tactic is always the same. Everytime me and my team mates do just same thing whatever happened. First 2 or 3 RT:s then after some time 2 or 3 guy goes to fade and someone builds DC. Then someone makes a hive and builds MC and then we have a onos and marines lost, if this all goes normally. If Aliens lose their 2 or 3 RT:s at start they have lost for sure and if someone makes MC at start everyone starts to whine and game is lost. With this new system there would be much less whine and this would open new ways to play this game. BUT Clan matches... Usually aliens wins in clan matches because clans have their "mysterious" tactics. But I dont think that this idea will make aliens too powerfull in clanmatches either because of those tactics clans have. Well its also true that marines could just crush aliens quite simply in clan matches by just heading straight to their res and destroying them. Iam not going to tell about clan tactics but I think people who plays in clan and know some tactics agrees with me.
the funny part about marines and dealing with cloaking is they dont use their most basic primal ability: their ears.
many times, a skulk hidden by a sensory ive managed to nail, just cause i could hear him running, and have trained myself a bit to tell where the sound is coming from, and picked him off after a bit of trial and error *sometimes even getting accused of hacking for it <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> *
most marines dont do that, and want all the work done FOR them. nothing wrong with an obs and such, but if their not available, one should always try to be prepared to get by without said luxuries. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
as for this 'unchained' idea. i LIKE! im gonna look for some servers and try it out ASAP. it sounds nifty.
The best part is that it doesn't really unbalance the game that much at all, even without any other balance changes to compensate for it. If this was thrown in for Beta 5 without any other changes at all it would be a huge improvement and I think the game would still be reasonably balanced without delaying the release much if at all.
You know in NS 2.01 you start out with 25 RP.. right? Well after having my share of telling people to drop resource towers and hives, we've decided that sensory will always go down first, since it will allow the skulks have the advantage of cloaking to get more res and to get resource points faster that way, keeping the game moving at a faster speed. This also works out for the gorges too since they can now cloak their offense chambers in certain corridors of each map. By having put up senesory first the players (though angry from the dropping of sensories) are forced into droping another hive if they want movements or if they really need it, defense chambers.
The DMS way encourages people to horde the resource points for themselves in order to go onos or fade on the first hive, then eventually die soon after. This makes the games harder for everyone else because of the loss of resource points that could have been used to put up more offense or another hive. That is the problem these days and always have been the problem, people horde all the resource points to themselve and pressure the other players to get what they want i.e: NSPlayer goes fade and continues to shout out for defense chambers. That player could have atleast put up another hive, allowing the team to be able to advance to the next stage and allows them to kill marines and cut them off faster.
So far I had not seen any team work in the servers that end up doing DMS. This is what the game is about, right? Teamwork? In order to win, that is the key. But when people horde the resource points to themselves and don't help out the team, you're better off f4ing and ending the game.
Right now. Look for unchained servers, like Tactical Gamer, and a few others. Personally, I only play TG, but I did that before they unchained anyway, which is why I can' name any other servers off the top of my head, but if you take the time to go through this thread here, a couple other servers are listed as well.
<!--QuoteBegin-Azure Sky+Jun 17 2004, 04:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Azure Sky @ Jun 17 2004, 04:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You know in NS 2.01 you start out with 25 RP.. right? Well after having my share of telling people to drop resource towers and hives, we've decided that sensory will always go down first, since it will allow the skulks have the advantage of cloaking to get more res and to get resource points faster that way, keeping the game moving at a faster speed. This also works out for the gorges too since they can now cloak their offense chambers in certain corridors of each map. By having put up senesory first the players (though angry from the dropping of sensories) are forced into droping another hive if they want movements or if they really need it, defense chambers.
The DMS way encourages people to horde the resource points for themselves in order to go onos or fade on the first hive, then eventually die soon after. This makes the games harder for everyone else because of the loss of resource points that could have been used to put up more offense or another hive. That is the problem these days and always have been the problem, people horde all the resource points to themselve and pressure the other players to get what they want i.e: NSPlayer goes fade and continues to shout out for defense chambers. That player could have atleast put up another hive, allowing the team to be able to advance to the next stage and allows them to kill marines and cut them off faster.
So far I had not seen any team work in the servers that end up doing DMS. This is what the game is about, right? Teamwork? In order to win, that is the key. But when people horde the resource points to themselves and don't help out the team, you're better off f4ing and ending the game. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Unfortunately, with 3b4, Fades play an incredible role in the success of the Alien team. Vanilla marines just bulldoze through hordes of skulks and Lerks are too fragile to do anything. With the prominent use of shotguns, anything that does not have a lot of HP and does not have a 'good' ranged weapon will just die in 2-3 shotgun bursts. The only creature that is fast moving, hard to hit, deals enough damage and yet can absorb enough damage to survive shotguns is the Fade. Fades typically show up just before or during the 2nd hive's construction, and since they'll be doing the majority of the attacking, they have to be able to survive well and re-enter combat rapidly. Thus the need for regeneration, thus the need for Defense first.
While I would LOVE to see DMS to go away, with the state of play as it is right now, DMS is ever more reinforced because of this reliance on Fades to counter a 10res weapon.
EXACTLY which is why DC will always some first. The ability to stay in combat/away from hive for long periods of time is crucial.
I however am against unchained chambers. Too many alien benifits. Although the benifits of mulitiple upgrade options are hardly affectice, the advantages of MCs and SCs chamber themselves are too much. What I mean is, o a cloaking skulk instead of a cara skulk, not that much of an advantage. MC chambers warping between mulitple hives and sensory cloaking everything everywhere everygame, is just deadly as hell.
<!--QuoteBegin-Lt. Hendrickson+Jun 18 2004, 02:58 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lt. Hendrickson @ Jun 18 2004, 02:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Too many alien benifits. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> ah yes... god forbid we EVER buff the aliens in any way/shape/or form.
damn how i hate people who do not read the entire thread.
the crux of the unchained chambers that does not make it OMJTEHHAXALEINTEHPWNAGEMARIENOGMOGMOMJ is....
*AHEM*
Aliens are limited by res, and common sense tells you, more chambers = more res needed = more res towers needed / lesser higher lifeforms / less chambers to be built earlier in game = less TOTELPWNAGEZOR of aliens.
Besides, an observatory is not there for nothing. <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo-->
[P.S. Take a gander at my siggie! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> ]
Claims about unchained chambers causing imbalance ignore the results from servers that have the unchained plugin. The aliens do not dominate; in fact they hardly win much more at all. It does make the game more balanced, not unbalanced. However more work needs to done to NS to make the game balanced. Unchaining is just the start.
OMG this would be just like if marines could build an armory and an arms lab and get armor 1 and an obs and get MT and extra IPs and drop shotguns and mines for the whole team ALL AT THE START OF THE GAME. ... Oh wait, they can. But they're limited by res.
Comments
btw. I opened this thread at modguide <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I played just 3 games with unchained chambers, but those games were really fun. The most wanted chamber was the sensory chamber <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
btw. I opened this thread at modguide <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I played just 3 games with unchained chambers, but those games were really fun. The most wanted chamber was the sensory chamber <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
just got off of tactical gamer, played two rounds on... whats it called? taintith i believe... GREAT games.
the first one i joined the game was already lost to marines... they pushed out and got a bunch of nodes and we had none when i got there.
The second one rines relocated to double. we got a defense up in cargo to stop them from taking fusion, but they pushed through anyways using med spam and quick feet. The rines destroyed the building hive unfortunetly, and then They sieged cargo for a little bit from fusion, but we managed to get a few nodes around the map (even got waste hive up!) while they were busy clearing cargo. I went onos (2 hives) for stomp spam. Managed to take down fusion, but they sieged waste... I movemented over there and stomped for the skulks (i was the only high life form for a while). and we managed to hold them off, but then they sieged Satcomm and got the thing down. I hit their main in retaliation and managed to get out with 50 HP... taking out a armory and a arms lab in the assault. While they rebuilt i went over to satcom and cleared the PG they had setup.... but then the rines hit frekin WASTE, I managed to get the gorge to build a MC and movemented over there but they got it down, i MCed outtta there with 150 HP left back to satcom. There we were with one hive building, a Onos, a fade with no blink (AKA: bigger slower skulk), and a few skulks. I went to secure fusion and when satcom went up someone built the hive at fusion. I went to waste and cleared it out (nothing there... they just left it). Went to their main... No one was there. Me and the fade started hacking away, and no one showed up. I heard a beacon and laughed... we had a gorge build 10+ OCs in Marine start. We decimated their main and then moved on to marine start (where they relocated) By then we had 2 onos and a fade... they were screwed.
A very good game over all, laughs and "gg"s were shared among all. I think the marines got down 4 hives through the whole game. it moved so fast its hard to remember it all. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
must... play... MORE! ^_^
Gave aliens than much need flexibility, but marines were never unfairly effected by it. It was actually rare to see more than 1 chamber at level 3 before a 2nd hive due to the costs involved in doing that.
It was great being a gorge and having a bit of tactical control instead of just griding out the required structures. I found myself constantly assessing the player movements. Seeing where my team might need chamber support and judging the best time and place to build them without getting killed. Good stuff.
<u>chamber run down</u>
<b>DC</b>
As usuall, dc was the prerequisite for the fades, same deal as always.
<b>MC</b>
Usually a gorge would secure a single mc at the first hive to allow reinforcements to the 2nd while its building. With ff on you could attack the hive get your whole team over before the marines arrived. I can imagine the commander sending people to take out the hive1 mcs in order to counter this strat. Since aliens have to leave this mc out in the open, this wouldnt be hard. Forward mcs havent been common.
<b>SC</b>
Usually someone would spend 20 res at the start to get one in a prime spot, usually in a vent or something. The effectiveness of this strat was very map dependant, a hard one to balance i expect. Level 1 SOF was good for staying alive as gorge and was a great scouting upgrade (less rambo pg!). It will be interesting to see how easy comms will counter a SC strat. I noticed obs were often built at siege spots as an extra precaution. Might be worth using cloaking a little just to make the comm paranoid like this <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
So far I have only used the plugin on my LAN-party games, and there I've found the main uses are Silent/Cloaked skulks or Cloaked gorges. Once you get mid game (2 hives) people generally use a Defence and a Movement upgrade anyway.
Still, I like the fact that they have the OPTION to use a sense.
Btw, link to Modns AMX Anti-DMS plugin:
<a href='http://www.modns.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=550' target='_blank'>http://www.modns.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=550</a>
History/Changelog:
<!--c1--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->
* 31.05.04 - 1.0
o Initial release
* 01.06.04 - 1.1
o Readded sound when building chambers
o (Hopefully) fixed bug where chambers were for free
* 02.06.04 - 1.2
o Plugin now automatically turns off in combat
o Correctly compiled .amx included this time;)
o Code improvements
* 08.06.04 - 1.3
o New method for unlocking hives.
o No longer requires CMATH
o Default spawn method used, because it's less buggy
* 08.06.04 - 1.4
o Updated version! Only needed for Linux
* 10.06.04 - 1.5
o Removed chained lifeforms
<!--c2--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now i know thats not true... I've built them AND used them equally. They are great for central locations (I'm thinking double here) for the big slow creatures (onos, gorge) to move around the map pretty fast. Now if only we could teleport to every hive instead of just the furthest ones... But with FF i guess thats not to big of a problem for the time being.
Allow all chambers to be built at first hive, but only 1 upgrade per hive.
due to cost and # of resnodes, it would be impossible for aliens to dominate off the bat, but leaves space for a reliable strategy actually using chambers.
1- "Second hive is going up, someone go drop a sensory in it!"
2- "OK I'll do it, lemme drop a movement here first, someone bite the hive"
1- "Rgr, are you fade yet, man?"
3- "Yea but I only have 2 DC's, someone get the last one!"
4- "Can't no res.."
5, 6, 1, 2 - "Same"
=P
Also, movements need to be like PG's and teleport from MC to MC, not hive to hive... just make like, the hive upgradeable, for a cost, kinda like upgrading PG's... or make the chambers upgrade with hives, something like that. Like for MC's you can use them as PG's at 2nd hive. For DC's the range heals for each hive, and for sens, the time for cloaking or range upgrades per hive...
Could change NS for the best I think.
Server: [CoFR]FR31NS
IP: 64.246.102.61:27015
Let us know what you think. Your participation on the server could directly impact how long this mod stays installed! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
-Brackhar
Unfortunately I believe that's impossible; Onoses need the hive spawn locations in order to spawn without getting stuck.
In this sense, MCs are more like personal-use beacons than phase gates.
Back on topic, I've tried some unchained servers and it's been good fun. I like how aliens have a choice of what to build where. You have to consider the chamber effect, the position, the timing, and of course, the <i>cost.</i>
In fact, I see nothing wrong with it.
in the case where aliens lose the second hive.
the current system still allows two upgrades (assuming those MCs went down in time)
the proposed system allows only one to any player spawned after the 2nd hive has died.
I only play unchained servers now. Anything else is just too bland. Whether or not unchained servers are balanced, it makes the game more Fun. For both sides, I'd like to emphasize... marines having to deal with cloaking is actually really interesting and fun and adreniline pumping! Asking the commander to drop a scan in the area feels great, and "Hunt the SC" is a new enjoyable mini-game!
I only play unchained servers now. Anything else is just too bland. Whether or not unchained servers are balanced, it makes the game more Fun. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Same here. I just can't play standard NS now; I've tasted the sweet ambrosia of unchaining and anything else is mere tapwater.
Btw, when the heck are we getting beta 5? Anyone got some inside information?
Flayra really should try this. Nowadays marines have so good aim that aliens lose almost everytime (If there's a good comm ofcourse). This new system would give the game a very nice effect.
All games I play in public are so boring because the tactic is always the same. Everytime me and my team mates do just same thing whatever happened. First 2 or 3 RT:s then after some time 2 or 3 guy goes to fade and someone builds DC. Then someone makes a hive and builds MC and then we have a onos and marines lost, if this all goes normally. If Aliens lose their 2 or 3 RT:s at start they have lost for sure and if someone makes MC at start everyone starts to whine and game is lost. With this new system there would be much less whine and this would open new ways to play this game. BUT Clan matches... Usually aliens wins in clan matches because clans have their "mysterious" tactics. But I dont think that this idea will make aliens too powerfull in clanmatches either because of those tactics clans have. Well its also true that marines could just crush aliens quite simply in clan matches by just heading straight to their res and destroying them. Iam not going to tell about clan tactics but I think people who plays in clan and know some tactics agrees with me.
many times, a skulk hidden by a sensory ive managed to nail, just cause i could hear him running, and have trained myself a bit to tell where the sound is coming from, and picked him off after a bit of trial and error *sometimes even getting accused of hacking for it <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> *
most marines dont do that, and want all the work done FOR them. nothing wrong with an obs and such, but if their not available, one should always try to be prepared to get by without said luxuries. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
as for this 'unchained' idea. i LIKE! im gonna look for some servers and try it out ASAP. it sounds nifty.
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I've been thinking about it since 1.04 aswell...
It should be at least tested before saying it wont work..
The DMS way encourages people to horde the resource points for themselves in order to go onos or fade on the first hive, then eventually die soon after. This makes the games harder for everyone else because of the loss of resource points that could have been used to put up more offense or another hive. That is the problem these days and always have been the problem, people horde all the resource points to themselve and pressure the other players to get what they want i.e: NSPlayer goes fade and continues to shout out for defense chambers. That player could have atleast put up another hive, allowing the team to be able to advance to the next stage and allows them to kill marines and cut them off faster.
So far I had not seen any team work in the servers that end up doing DMS. This is what the game is about, right? Teamwork? In order to win, that is the key. But when people horde the resource points to themselves and don't help out the team, you're better off f4ing and ending the game.
Twilight
The DMS way encourages people to horde the resource points for themselves in order to go onos or fade on the first hive, then eventually die soon after. This makes the games harder for everyone else because of the loss of resource points that could have been used to put up more offense or another hive. That is the problem these days and always have been the problem, people horde all the resource points to themselve and pressure the other players to get what they want i.e: NSPlayer goes fade and continues to shout out for defense chambers. That player could have atleast put up another hive, allowing the team to be able to advance to the next stage and allows them to kill marines and cut them off faster.
So far I had not seen any team work in the servers that end up doing DMS. This is what the game is about, right? Teamwork? In order to win, that is the key. But when people horde the resource points to themselves and don't help out the team, you're better off f4ing and ending the game. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unfortunately, with 3b4, Fades play an incredible role in the success of the Alien team. Vanilla marines just bulldoze through hordes of skulks and Lerks are too fragile to do anything. With the prominent use of shotguns, anything that does not have a lot of HP and does not have a 'good' ranged weapon will just die in 2-3 shotgun bursts. The only creature that is fast moving, hard to hit, deals enough damage and yet can absorb enough damage to survive shotguns is the Fade. Fades typically show up just before or during the 2nd hive's construction, and since they'll be doing the majority of the attacking, they have to be able to survive well and re-enter combat rapidly. Thus the need for regeneration, thus the need for Defense first.
While I would LOVE to see DMS to go away, with the state of play as it is right now, DMS is ever more reinforced because of this reliance on Fades to counter a 10res weapon.
EXACTLY which is why DC will always some first. The ability to stay in combat/away from hive for long periods of time is crucial.
I however am against unchained chambers. Too many alien benifits. Although the benifits of mulitiple upgrade options are hardly affectice, the advantages of MCs and SCs chamber themselves are too much. What I mean is, o a cloaking skulk instead of a cara skulk, not that much of an advantage. MC chambers warping between mulitple hives and sensory cloaking everything everywhere everygame, is just deadly as hell.
ah yes... god forbid we EVER buff the aliens in any way/shape/or form.
the crux of the unchained chambers that does not make it OMJTEHHAXALEINTEHPWNAGEMARIENOGMOGMOMJ is....
*AHEM*
Aliens are limited by res, and common sense tells you, more chambers = more res needed = more res towers needed / lesser higher lifeforms / less chambers to be built earlier in game = less TOTELPWNAGEZOR of aliens.
Besides, an observatory is not there for nothing. <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo-->
[P.S. Take a gander at my siggie! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> ]
/sarcastic example