<!--QuoteBegin-Wyzcrak+Jun 23 2004, 01:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Wyzcrak @ Jun 23 2004, 01:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <span style='color:yellow'><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, PEOPLE: PLAY -- A LOT -- ON AN UNCHAINED SERVER OR TWO BEFORE YOU COMMENT ABOUT THIS AUTHORITATIVELY.</span></span> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Repeated for emphasis.
<!--QuoteBegin-LdPhebos+ Jun 23 2004, 12:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (LdPhebos @ Jun 23 2004, 12:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->First of all if we leave everything as it stands and just un-link the chambers from hives, it would defiantly make the game extremely unbalanced.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sorry but that is simply incorrect. <b>Play the game with the plugin, PLEASE.</b> Obviously it is a buff to the aliens but it is not excessively unbalancing. It might unbalance the game a little bit if nothing is done to counterbalance it, namely sensories, but not to the extent that it will take months of playtesting to make it work. We've been playing with unchained chambers for weeks now and games are pretty much balanced, maybe moreso than they were before. You don't have to understand why the game isn't unbalanced with them; when we first started using them I myself was prepared for the possibility that it would be way too much and we'd take it off the next day. Now we use it pretty much permanently and no one complains. There's no reason to shoot down the idea based on guesses when there is a 100% functional plugin that lets you see it for yourself.
For those who don't already know. Wyz is an admin on a great server that has been using the Unchained plugin for quite some time now (Tactical Gamer). And anyone who regularly plays on that server knows that aliens are not overpowering the marines. In fact, if Wyz comms then the aliens are almost sure to lose.
What the unchained mod does not do is overpower aliens. What the mod does do is allow for more diverse alien tactics, making them more fun to play. <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Recoup: play more as an alien, and against better marines. Because there's 1 thing you will hopefully realise: the aliens need a buff. Even better: they need several buffs. this is not only because of "balance" but because as of now the aliens are so weak, that they are not very fun to play. because whatever buff the aliens get, it won't be 2 weeks before the marine tactics and style of play have adapted to it. remember 2.0?
If anything , better/more chamber effects would make the game more interesting by increasing the role of the gorges. To compensate , just double the number of upgrade chambers needed for each upgrade level (so it would take 6 DCs to have level 3 regen , but theses DCs might umbra nearby structures or something)
NolSinklerOn the ClorfJoin Date: 2004-02-15Member: 26560Members, Constellation
Wyzcrak is right.
I have played on the unchained server many times. I find that the games turn out about 50/50. Sure, you may think that aliens would woin all of the time, well right now the games are 60/40 marines favor. This balances them to be extremely close with wins. You see, the aliens can ONLY have one upgrade per hive. Sensory is actually seen at hive 1 <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo--> . Guess what? With all of those res being spent on 9 chambers, the aliens dont have much res to fade...sorry but its perfectly balanced from what I have seen.
This also involves more strategy, like cloaking the entire map and stopping the marines from progressing, while having defense chambers up also so you can be cloaked and healed...for hundreds of res, or movement rushing the hives at hive 1, then cloaking the hive and all aliens around it...but it is nowhere near unbalanced...it is actually even closer to being perfectly balanced than the game is currently.
<!--QuoteBegin-LdPhebos+Jun 23 2004, 11:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (LdPhebos @ Jun 23 2004, 11:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->lets say one gorge drops 1 sensory on the map, then goes and drops another.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Okay. Let's say he does. This means that the aliens have one less RT and a gorge that's completely out of resources.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Here the team would have access to l2 sent of fear, as well as cloak and focus.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> "or", not "and". You'll note however that this means each skulk now has 2 less res than normal, because normally they don't upgrade at all.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->They would be able to tell marine movements extremely early and predict their movements to set up ambushes.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah.. assuming they had excellent teamwork and communication between them. Either that or they all got SoF which blows away your assumption below.
Of course, if they do have excellent teamwork/communication, then they're probably a half-decent team, which means most of the marines are walking around parasited anyway.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Meanwhile marines would get armor one. Armor one would be counterd by the L1/L2 focus.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That is, for those skulks that had it and didn't get SoF or Cloak.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Soon after one player gets 40 res, and drops 3 defense chambers, then waits in the hive and drops a movement as soon as another player drops the new hive. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Soon after? Remember, this alien team has had *at least* one less RT in the early game, and all the skulks have spent extra res on upgrades. If anything, the time before the defense towers come out are extended from normal play, as is the time for second hive, as is the time for movement. The lack of that RT affects the whole alien team fairly significantly.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->At this point marines usually have L2 weapons, and L1 armor, unless they rushed motion tracking or did another strategy, in which case they would have less upgrades. Aliens at this point would have a regen fade, ability to warp into the new hive, and level 2 focus, as well as sensory coverage of the map.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No they don't, because if they followed your strategy, by the time the aliens can go fade (with each having two less res than normal (for the upgrade) and one less RT for the entire team) the marines are sitting at L3/L1 or have MT *and* L2/L1.
As for sensory coverage of the map, they haven't had the res to do this, so if they're lucky the aliens have maybe a couple of chokepoints covered.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->All within 5-6 minutes of the game. Marines would have an insane time getting anywhere, with the sensory coverage, the sent of fear, cloaking, focus, fast movement to new hives, and regenerative/defensive abilities. In public play it would be even worse, as more players = more resources = more chambers = more imballence. And that is the realistic truth.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Bzzzt. More players == LESS Kharaa resources long term, because those initial RTs that are missing when people build chambers <i><b>hurt</b></i>. A lot more hurt than the localized chamber benefits.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I voted against the change because it would take so long to implement and that in NS thusfar chambers have been made to be individualy powerfull. It would take major revamping of the game, and need extensive playtesting and manhours.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I thought the same way at first, I've come around since simply because I've given it more thought. The key to the alien game has always been resources and resource towers. They make everything else possible. Unchaining the chambers simply give the alien team more distractions from that.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I voted against the change because it would take so long to implement and that in NS thusfar chambers have been made to be individualy powerfull. It would take major revamping of the game, and need extensive playtesting and manhours.
<span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:yellow'>FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, PEOPLE: PLAY -- A LOT -- ON AN UNCHAINED SERVER OR TWO BEFORE YOU COMMENT ABOUT THIS AUTHORITATIVELY. </span></span>
<!--QuoteBegin-Ryo-Ohki+Jun 23 2004, 11:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ryo-Ohki @ Jun 23 2004, 11:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I voted against the change because it would take so long to implement and that in NS thusfar chambers have been made to be individualy powerfull. It would take major revamping of the game, and need extensive playtesting and manhours.
<span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:yellow'>FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, PEOPLE: PLAY -- A LOT -- ON AN UNCHAINED SERVER OR TWO BEFORE YOU COMMENT ABOUT THIS AUTHORITATIVELY. </span></span> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> So true, been playing on an unchained server for about a month now, and I am still unable to see any major balance problems. Good alien teams still win and good marine teams still own. Only difference now is that the aliens win in different ways.
WyzcrakPot Pie AficionadoJoin Date: 2002-12-04Member: 10447Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--QuoteBegin-Recoup+Jun 24 2004, 02:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Recoup @ Jun 24 2004, 02:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And since the 117 people dont want it, then it would be kind of unfair to them wouldnt it?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> 1. Fair is a myth. 2. It's pretty clear that a substantial number of players voting against this plugin haven't even taken the time to play on an unchained server. While I suppose the same could be said (though not as easily substantiated) of people who have voted <b>for</b> it, I don't see a significantly inexperienced fifth of a response carrying much weight when deciding whether or not to even TRY something in a BETA.
If the results of this poll are offered by the devs as even PART of a reason to NOT include this in an official beta, I'll wonder what the point of a poll is. Similarly, if the devs never acknowledge this response and never include this in an official beta, the poll will be perceived by many as a failed attempt at community involvement.
I won't be so bold as to assume anyone else's goals in playing NS, but mine include diversity in strategy, and this allows... all but forces... diverse strategy on both teams.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And since the 117 people dont want it, then it would be kind of unfair to them wouldnt it?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's a rather scathing critisism of democratic processes. A very clear majority of the people who have voted in this poll want unchaining, and on every unchained server I have been on I have *never* seen anyone say that they disliked unchaining.
WyzcrakPot Pie AficionadoJoin Date: 2002-12-04Member: 10447Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--QuoteBegin-Ryo-Ohki+Jun 24 2004, 05:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ryo-Ohki @ Jun 24 2004, 05:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->on every unchained server I have been on I have *never* seen anyone say that they disliked unchaining.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Generally, absolutes are dangerous. Amazingly, however, I have to concur. I've yet to play on an unchained server with someone who said they disliked the change. Heh, we had a server outage for 24 hours and stood up a temporary server right away. Having run the plugin for a month, the first question I heard from the first regular I spoke with was "will the temp server have unchained??!?" <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Errrm... so far on the Tactical Gamers server I've only seen alien wins , but it partly comes from me comming 2 times <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> obviously it takes time to adapt and devise effective marine strategies , and your average marines who instinctively expect a slash&burn strat are caught off guard by the cloaked skulks , much like in version 2.0 ; but the victory counts should eventually become breaking even on advanced pubs and average/high level clan matches.
A few needed tweaks imho :
-Change the max upgrades count to a max upgrade level : 2 for hive 1 , 5 for hive 2 , 9 for hive 3. That way , the aliens can't rush focus to own marine after marine , but level 2 focus is enough to kill an armor 1 marine in 2 bites.
-Sensory chamber cost increased to 11-12 , Movement chamber cost decreased to 8-9 (or maybe add a celerity boost)
-Cloaking delay (from the upgrade) : 5 seconds for level 1 , 2 seconds for level 2 , 1/2 second for level 3.
-Silence reduces the sounds volume by 50% at level 1 , and 75% at level 2.
-Scan energy cost reduced to 20% (comms just can't afford to build several obs , upgrade things and give out shotguns to counter early fades , without owning marines)
-Decrease the obs building time , to make obs outposts less risky to build.
-Slightly increase the catpacked marine's running speed , to boost marine offense.
-Slightly decrease armor 2&3 research times to give the marines a better chance against hive 2 aliens (because of the earlier midgame)
I played on an unchained server, and the aliens were far to unskilled to use it to it's potential. I greatly dislike the idea as of now, but am willing to reconsider if I actually play with professional and skilled players, and it's still balanced.
I played it once, but I still don't fully understand it. So you have ALL the upgrades smack dab at the start as long as you have a chamber right? The rule of 1 chamber = level 1, etc. still applies then? And if you choose an upgrade, at hive 1 you cant get any more from a different chamber until you have another hive... but tell me, will this solve the problem that level 1 upgrades of each trait are rarely used?
I've noticed that sometimes a smart gorge player will put up a sensory chamber near an attacking marine phasegate. The cloaking helps out, but what really makes it great is that it counters motion-tracking, which tends to catch marines off-guard, especially when they're building. Obviously then, a good commander would want to have an observatory at every base he builds.
Some other obvious things are placing a single movement chamber in your starting hive. When the second hive is building, aliens can more easily save it should it be attacked. Sneaking up the second or third hive with sensory works well too, if the comm neglects to build an observatory in his lockdown base. In cases where gorges run to double to build it, perhaps a sensory chamber should be dropped before the offense chambers.
For those who don't know, unchaining simply allows gorges to build any type of upgrade chamber without needing multiple hives. The process of picking upgrades for your lifeform remains the same. Aliens still depend on Fades with regeneration and Onos with stomp, but gorges can have their fun with sensory as well.
<!--QuoteBegin-SmoodCroozn+Jun 25 2004, 04:20 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SmoodCroozn @ Jun 25 2004, 04:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I played it once, but I still don't fully understand it. So you have ALL the upgrades smack dab at the start as long as you have a chamber right? The rule of 1 chamber = level 1, etc. still applies then? And if you choose an upgrade, at hive 1 you cant get any more from a different chamber until you have another hive... but tell me, will this solve the problem that level 1 upgrades of each trait are rarely used? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No. This addresses DMS, not the fact that lvl 1 upgrades are almost never used.
NolSinklerOn the ClorfJoin Date: 2004-02-15Member: 26560Members, Constellation
Tacticalgamers is where I play. It is very balanced, and I am going to request to everyone that they take statistics for like 1 day to see how close it is. The average game-time is like 30:00 with unchained, some are very long, some arent. You all mostly want longer games, right? This has some of those "epic" games that everyone likes (me too), involves strategy, and communication between the alien team.
BOTH teams have to work to win, its not like 2.0 when aliens won every game, and could just sit back, its not a version where marines win every time. A hive battle can take like 10 minutes, and the chance for an alien win seems to be the same as a marine win. Sensory at hive 1 seems to almost always be dropped first, followed by a defense chamber, and such.
This isnt just more fun, more strategic, but its also more balanced.
<!--QuoteBegin-DR_FUZZY+May 31 2004, 07:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DR_FUZZY @ May 31 2004, 07:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yay more remove-alien-teamwork by freaking up the hive system MORE than removing classes, great idea <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> how true... this will make aliens to independent, instead of encouraging teamwork... heck y should that skulk with silence and cloaking help out that onos? he isnt built to take on marines back-on... he was designed to ambush the second he got the upgrades, while onos was made to do that stuff... sure u might get clan members owning cos 1 guy is combat class and other is support class, but that will be clan-with-clan, not pub <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
btw if u dont get what dr fuzzy was saying here then ur just plain dumb <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
*btw is aliens now-a-days went bak to 1.0x days of evolution, newbs would freak and run upstairs form their mothers basement crying then flying into there 90 yr old mummy arms.... u sado's lol
edit; btw what would the point of having chambers be anymore? meat shields???
Um, this plugin doesn't do anything but improve alien teamwork because it offers <i>significant</i> rewards for the alien team that coordinates well. An alien team that can't work out who does what isn't going to be able to make good use of this feature, and with chained chambers aliens never really needed to learn teamwork because they all knew what to do right from the start. A truly effective alien team can reap the benefits of chamber flexibility, but a bunch of rambos certainly can't. <b>PLAY IT BEFORE YOU BASH IT.</b>
Why the future tense? It's available for you to try now. NOW.
<!--QuoteBegin-Emanon+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Emanon)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Ryo-Ohki+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ryo-Ohki)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Zek+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zek)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Wyzcrak+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Wyzcrak)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:yellow'>FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, PEOPLE: PLAY -- A LOT -- ON AN UNCHAINED SERVER OR TWO BEFORE YOU COMMENT ABOUT THIS AUTHORITATIVELY. </span></span> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again Zek is forced to lay down facts based on experience in the face of baseless hypotheses offered by those dedicated enough to post about an idea they're not dedicated enough to personally research.
<!--QuoteBegin-Recoup+Jun 24 2004, 02:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Recoup @ Jun 24 2004, 02:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And since the 117 people dont want it, then it would be kind of unfair to them wouldnt it? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> We're not if Florida voting on Bush's presidency.
I don't care if this does imbalance the game (which it dosn't do) the rather important point to me is that it <b>makes the game fun again.</b>
Stock 3.0 games are currently decided in the first few minutes of play, with the last 40 minutes just one team waiting for the other to finish it, sometimes longer if its the Kharaa winning. DMS reigns suprem, and the Kharaa early game suffers a great deal because of it.
The point of a RTS is Strategy. Currently, theres no real strategy at all to the Kharaa game. There is only ONE set path to follow, and even then it dosn't ensure victory. Deviate even slightly from the Defense/Fade/Hive2/Movement/Fade/whatever strat and unless the Marine team really sucks, your going to lose.
This adds strategy and counter-strategy to both sides of the game. If you'd actually played a few rounds with the plugin, you'd also know that it does NOT imbalance the game in any signifigant way.
And even if it would favor the aliens , it's worth being implemented. Losing is much worse for the alien team than for the marine team. When the marines are losing they can still try and kill a hive , or make a last stand (which usually lasts pretty long , at least on pubs) fighting higher evolutions with their remaining high tech equipment. When the aliens are on the wrong side of the slippery slope , they lose their tech and ability to evolve quickly , while facing stronger and stronger marines , there's nothing significant to do as a losing alien in beta 4. With unchained chambers , owning marines will have to face a challenging variety of threats at 1 hive and until the game is actually over , not just slaughter weak skulks and win by slaying the 2nd fade.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->BOTH teams have to work to win, its not like 2.0 when aliens won every game, and could just sit back, its not a version where marines win every time. A hive battle can take like 10 minutes, and the chance for an alien win seems to be the same as a marine win.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Says it all. Even in a messing-around-game at Roob's , the fights were fierce. We relocated about a dozen times on Nancy , and the 3rd hive was paper thin after our siege went down. Lots of HA/Onos clashes , and JP/Fade jousting , periods of massive assaults and periods of sneaking. Basically , the wet dream of an old NS veteran who played too much Combat <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-jamespsx+Jun 25 2004, 11:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (jamespsx @ Jun 25 2004, 11:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-DR_FUZZY+May 31 2004, 07:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DR_FUZZY @ May 31 2004, 07:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yay more remove-alien-teamwork by freaking up the hive system MORE than removing classes, great idea ??? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> how true... this will make aliens to independent, instead of encouraging teamwork... heck y should that skulk with silence and cloaking help out that onos? he isnt built to take on marines back-on... he was designed to ambush the second he got the upgrades, while onos was made to do that stuff... sure u might get clan members owning cos 1 guy is combat class and other is support class, but that will be clan-with-clan, not pub ???
btw if u dont get what dr fuzzy was saying here then ur just plain dumb :D
*btw is aliens now-a-days went bak to 1.0x days of evolution, newbs would freak and run upstairs form their mothers basement crying then flying into there 90 yr old mummy arms.... u sado's lol
edit; btw what would the point of having chambers be anymore? meat shields??? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteBegin-jamespsx+Jun 25 2004, 11:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (jamespsx @ Jun 25 2004, 11:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-DR_FUZZY+May 31 2004, 07:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DR_FUZZY @ May 31 2004, 07:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yay more remove-alien-teamwork by freaking up the hive system MORE than removing classes, great idea ??? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> how true... this will make aliens to independent, instead of encouraging teamwork... heck y should that skulk with silence and cloaking help out that onos? he isnt built to take on marines back-on... he was designed to ambush the second he got the upgrades, while onos was made to do that stuff... sure u might get clan members owning cos 1 guy is combat class and other is support class, but that will be clan-with-clan, not pub ???
btw if u dont get what dr fuzzy was saying here then ur just plain dumb :D
*btw is aliens now-a-days went bak to 1.0x days of evolution, newbs would freak and run upstairs form their mothers basement crying then flying into there 90 yr old mummy arms.... u sado's lol <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> How would it reduce teamwork? And yeah, skulk was designed to ambush, cloaking and silence help him do that. I don't see how it helps him attack from the front. Oh and no ur dumb lolol :D ...
I dont see what the removal of chained lifeforms has to do with unchained chambers overpowering aliens. It's not the same thing.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->edit; btw what would the point of having chambers be anymore? meat shields???<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ... Huh? Did you understand the suggestion correctly? You can't get upgrades without chambers... And they still have the area-of-effect stuff, like sensories cloaking nearby objects.
Argh, I voted no way back then because I was thinking that Chambers are chained down for a good reason, to force peoples to make a choice for the team. But now i just played an unchained server... wish I could change my vote.
:: edit :: I didn't read the whole topic, just the couple above me <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->... I just have to add that :
WyzcrakPot Pie AficionadoJoin Date: 2002-12-04Member: 10447Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--QuoteBegin-VampMaster+Jun 26 2004, 11:20 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (VampMaster @ Jun 26 2004, 11:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Argh, I voted no... But now i just played an unchained server... wish I could change my vote. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Who didn't see this coming? <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
WyzcrakPot Pie AficionadoJoin Date: 2002-12-04Member: 10447Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--QuoteBegin-James Dizikes+Jun 26 2004, 02:05 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (James Dizikes @ Jun 26 2004, 02:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> could some of you list the unchained servers you play on? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> There have been several listed in the thread, but see my sig for the server I play on, which does run unchained.
Comments
Repeated for emphasis.
<!--QuoteBegin-LdPhebos+ Jun 23 2004, 12:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (LdPhebos @ Jun 23 2004, 12:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->First of all if we leave everything as it stands and just un-link the chambers from hives, it would defiantly make the game extremely unbalanced.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry but that is simply incorrect. <b>Play the game with the plugin, PLEASE.</b> Obviously it is a buff to the aliens but it is not excessively unbalancing. It might unbalance the game a little bit if nothing is done to counterbalance it, namely sensories, but not to the extent that it will take months of playtesting to make it work. We've been playing with unchained chambers for weeks now and games are pretty much balanced, maybe moreso than they were before. You don't have to understand why the game isn't unbalanced with them; when we first started using them I myself was prepared for the possibility that it would be way too much and we'd take it off the next day. Now we use it pretty much permanently and no one complains. There's no reason to shoot down the idea based on guesses when there is a 100% functional plugin that lets you see it for yourself.
For those who don't already know. Wyz is an admin on a great server that has been using the Unchained plugin for quite some time now (Tactical Gamer). And anyone who regularly plays on that server knows that aliens are not overpowering the marines. In fact, if Wyz comms then the aliens are almost sure to lose.
What the unchained mod does not do is overpower aliens. What the mod does do is allow for more diverse alien tactics, making them more fun to play.
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I have played on the unchained server many times. I find that the games turn out about 50/50. Sure, you may think that aliens would woin all of the time, well right now the games are 60/40 marines favor. This balances them to be extremely close with wins. You see, the aliens can ONLY have one upgrade per hive. Sensory is actually seen at hive 1 <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo--> . Guess what? With all of those res being spent on 9 chambers, the aliens dont have much res to fade...sorry but its perfectly balanced from what I have seen.
This also involves more strategy, like cloaking the entire map and stopping the marines from progressing, while having defense chambers up also so you can be cloaked and healed...for hundreds of res, or movement rushing the hives at hive 1, then cloaking the hive and all aliens around it...but it is nowhere near unbalanced...it is actually even closer to being perfectly balanced than the game is currently.
Thank you,
NolSink
Okay. Let's say he does. This means that the aliens have one less RT and a gorge that's completely out of resources.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Here the team would have access to l2 sent of fear, as well as cloak and focus.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
"or", not "and". You'll note however that this means each skulk now has 2 less res than normal, because normally they don't upgrade at all.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->They would be able to tell marine movements extremely early and predict their movements to set up ambushes.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah.. assuming they had excellent teamwork and communication between them. Either that or they all got SoF which blows away your assumption below.
Of course, if they do have excellent teamwork/communication, then they're probably a half-decent team, which means most of the marines are walking around parasited anyway.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Meanwhile marines would get armor one. Armor one would be counterd by the L1/L2 focus.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is, for those skulks that had it and didn't get SoF or Cloak.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Soon after one player gets 40 res, and drops 3 defense chambers, then waits in the hive and drops a movement as soon as another player drops the new hive. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Soon after? Remember, this alien team has had *at least* one less RT in the early game, and all the skulks have spent extra res on upgrades. If anything, the time before the defense towers come out are extended from normal play, as is the time for second hive, as is the time for movement. The lack of that RT affects the whole alien team fairly significantly.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->At this point marines usually have L2 weapons, and L1 armor, unless they rushed motion tracking or did another strategy, in which case they would have less upgrades. Aliens at this point would have a regen fade, ability to warp into the new hive, and level 2 focus, as well as sensory coverage of the map.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No they don't, because if they followed your strategy, by the time the aliens can go fade (with each having two less res than normal (for the upgrade) and one less RT for the entire team) the marines are sitting at L3/L1 or have MT *and* L2/L1.
As for sensory coverage of the map, they haven't had the res to do this, so if they're lucky the aliens have maybe a couple of chokepoints covered.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->All within 5-6 minutes of the game. Marines would have an insane time getting anywhere, with the sensory coverage, the sent of fear, cloaking, focus, fast movement to new hives, and regenerative/defensive abilities. In public play it would be even worse, as more players = more resources = more chambers = more imballence. And that is the realistic truth.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Bzzzt. More players == LESS Kharaa resources long term, because those initial RTs that are missing when people build chambers <i><b>hurt</b></i>. A lot more hurt than the localized chamber benefits.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I voted against the change because it would take so long to implement and that in NS thusfar chambers have been made to be individualy powerfull. It would take major revamping of the game, and need extensive playtesting and manhours.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I thought the same way at first, I've come around since simply because I've given it more thought. The key to the alien game has always been resources and resource towers. They make everything else possible. Unchaining the chambers simply give the alien team more distractions from that.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And once more folks!
<span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:yellow'>FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, PEOPLE: PLAY -- A LOT -- ON AN UNCHAINED SERVER OR TWO BEFORE YOU COMMENT ABOUT THIS AUTHORITATIVELY.
</span></span>
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And once more folks!
<span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:yellow'>FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, PEOPLE: PLAY -- A LOT -- ON AN UNCHAINED SERVER OR TWO BEFORE YOU COMMENT ABOUT THIS AUTHORITATIVELY.
</span></span> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
So true, been playing on an unchained server for about a month now, and I am still unable to see any major balance problems. Good alien teams still win and good marine teams still own. Only difference now is that the aliens win in different ways.
1. Fair is a myth.
2. It's pretty clear that a substantial number of players voting against this plugin haven't even taken the time to play on an unchained server. While I suppose the same could be said (though not as easily substantiated) of people who have voted <b>for</b> it, I don't see a significantly inexperienced fifth of a response carrying much weight when deciding whether or not to even TRY something in a BETA.
If the results of this poll are offered by the devs as even PART of a reason to NOT include this in an official beta, I'll wonder what the point of a poll is. Similarly, if the devs never acknowledge this response and never include this in an official beta, the poll will be perceived by many as a failed attempt at community involvement.
I won't be so bold as to assume anyone else's goals in playing NS, but mine include diversity in strategy, and this allows... all but forces... diverse strategy on both teams.
That's a rather scathing critisism of democratic processes. A very clear majority of the people who have voted in this poll want unchaining, and on every unchained server I have been on I have *never* seen anyone say that they disliked unchaining.
Generally, absolutes are dangerous. Amazingly, however, I have to concur. I've yet to play on an unchained server with someone who said they disliked the change. Heh, we had a server outage for 24 hours and stood up a temporary server right away. Having run the plugin for a month, the first question I heard from the first regular I spoke with was "will the temp server have unchained??!?" <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
A few needed tweaks imho :
-Change the max upgrades count to a max upgrade level : 2 for hive 1 , 5 for hive 2 , 9 for hive 3. That way , the aliens can't rush focus to own marine after marine , but level 2 focus is enough to kill an armor 1 marine in 2 bites.
-Sensory chamber cost increased to 11-12 , Movement chamber cost decreased to 8-9 (or maybe add a celerity boost)
-Cloaking delay (from the upgrade) : 5 seconds for level 1 , 2 seconds for level 2 , 1/2 second for level 3.
-Silence reduces the sounds volume by 50% at level 1 , and 75% at level 2.
-Scan energy cost reduced to 20% (comms just can't afford to build several obs , upgrade things and give out shotguns to counter early fades , without owning marines)
-Decrease the obs building time , to make obs outposts less risky to build.
-Slightly increase the catpacked marine's running speed , to boost marine offense.
-Slightly decrease armor 2&3 research times to give the marines a better chance against hive 2 aliens (because of the earlier midgame)
I played on an unchained server, and the aliens were far to unskilled to use it to it's potential. I greatly dislike the idea as of now, but am willing to reconsider if I actually play with professional and skilled players, and it's still balanced.
Some other obvious things are placing a single movement chamber in your starting hive. When the second hive is building, aliens can more easily save it should it be attacked. Sneaking up the second or third hive with sensory works well too, if the comm neglects to build an observatory in his lockdown base. In cases where gorges run to double to build it, perhaps a sensory chamber should be dropped before the offense chambers.
For those who don't know, unchaining simply allows gorges to build any type of upgrade chamber without needing multiple hives. The process of picking upgrades for your lifeform remains the same. Aliens still depend on Fades with regeneration and Onos with stomp, but gorges can have their fun with sensory as well.
No. This addresses DMS, not the fact that lvl 1 upgrades are almost never used.
BOTH teams have to work to win, its not like 2.0 when aliens won every game, and could just sit back, its not a version where marines win every time. A hive battle can take like 10 minutes, and the chance for an alien win seems to be the same as a marine win. Sensory at hive 1 seems to almost always be dropped first, followed by a defense chamber, and such.
This isnt just more fun, more strategic, but its also more balanced.
how true... this will make aliens to independent, instead of encouraging teamwork... heck y should that skulk with silence and cloaking help out that onos? he isnt built to take on marines back-on... he was designed to ambush the second he got the upgrades, while onos was made to do that stuff... sure u might get clan members owning cos 1 guy is combat class and other is support class, but that will be clan-with-clan, not pub <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
btw if u dont get what dr fuzzy was saying here then ur just plain dumb <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
*btw is aliens now-a-days went bak to 1.0x days of evolution, newbs would freak and run upstairs form their mothers basement crying then flying into there 90 yr old mummy arms.... u sado's lol
edit; btw what would the point of having chambers be anymore? meat shields???
"will"?
Why the future tense? It's available for you to try now. NOW.
<!--QuoteBegin-Emanon+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Emanon)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Ryo-Ohki+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ryo-Ohki)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Zek+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zek)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Wyzcrak+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Wyzcrak)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
<span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:yellow'>FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, PEOPLE: PLAY -- A LOT -- ON AN UNCHAINED SERVER OR TWO BEFORE YOU COMMENT ABOUT THIS AUTHORITATIVELY.
</span></span> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again Zek is forced to lay down facts based on experience in the face of baseless hypotheses offered by those dedicated enough to post about an idea they're not dedicated enough to personally research.
We're not if Florida voting on Bush's presidency.
I don't care if this does imbalance the game (which it dosn't do) the rather important point to me is that it <b>makes the game fun again.</b>
Stock 3.0 games are currently decided in the first few minutes of play, with the last 40 minutes just one team waiting for the other to finish it, sometimes longer if its the Kharaa winning. DMS reigns suprem, and the Kharaa early game suffers a great deal because of it.
The point of a RTS is Strategy. Currently, theres no real strategy at all to the Kharaa game. There is only ONE set path to follow, and even then it dosn't ensure victory. Deviate even slightly from the Defense/Fade/Hive2/Movement/Fade/whatever strat and unless the Marine team really sucks, your going to lose.
This adds strategy and counter-strategy to both sides of the game. If you'd actually played a few rounds with the plugin, you'd also know that it does NOT imbalance the game in any signifigant way.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->BOTH teams have to work to win, its not like 2.0 when aliens won every game, and could just sit back, its not a version where marines win every time. A hive battle can take like 10 minutes, and the chance for an alien win seems to be the same as a marine win.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Says it all. Even in a messing-around-game at Roob's , the fights were fierce. We relocated about a dozen times on Nancy , and the 3rd hive was paper thin after our siege went down. Lots of HA/Onos clashes , and JP/Fade jousting , periods of massive assaults and periods of sneaking. Basically , the wet dream of an old NS veteran who played too much Combat <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
how true... this will make aliens to independent, instead of encouraging teamwork... heck y should that skulk with silence and cloaking help out that onos? he isnt built to take on marines back-on... he was designed to ambush the second he got the upgrades, while onos was made to do that stuff... sure u might get clan members owning cos 1 guy is combat class and other is support class, but that will be clan-with-clan, not pub ???
btw if u dont get what dr fuzzy was saying here then ur just plain dumb :D
*btw is aliens now-a-days went bak to 1.0x days of evolution, newbs would freak and run upstairs form their mothers basement crying then flying into there 90 yr old mummy arms.... u sado's lol
edit; btw what would the point of having chambers be anymore? meat shields??? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-jamespsx+Jun 25 2004, 11:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (jamespsx @ Jun 25 2004, 11:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-DR_FUZZY+May 31 2004, 07:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DR_FUZZY @ May 31 2004, 07:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yay more remove-alien-teamwork by freaking up the hive system MORE than removing classes, great idea ??? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
how true... this will make aliens to independent, instead of encouraging teamwork... heck y should that skulk with silence and cloaking help out that onos? he isnt built to take on marines back-on... he was designed to ambush the second he got the upgrades, while onos was made to do that stuff... sure u might get clan members owning cos 1 guy is combat class and other is support class, but that will be clan-with-clan, not pub ???
btw if u dont get what dr fuzzy was saying here then ur just plain dumb :D
*btw is aliens now-a-days went bak to 1.0x days of evolution, newbs would freak and run upstairs form their mothers basement crying then flying into there 90 yr old mummy arms.... u sado's lol
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How would it reduce teamwork?
And yeah, skulk was designed to ambush, cloaking and silence help him do that. I don't see how it helps him attack from the front.
Oh and no ur dumb lolol :D
...
I dont see what the removal of chained lifeforms has to do with unchained chambers overpowering aliens. It's not the same thing.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->edit; btw what would the point of having chambers be anymore? meat shields???<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
...
Huh? Did you understand the suggestion correctly? You can't get upgrades without chambers... And they still have the area-of-effect stuff, like sensories cloaking nearby objects.
:: edit :: I didn't read the whole topic, just the couple above me <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->... I just have to add that :
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->skulk ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sklk)
intr.v. skulked, skulk?ing, skulks
To move about stealthily.
n.
One who hides, lurks, or practices evasion.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Who didn't see this coming? <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
How do you find unchained servers? Is there a way to see what servers are running the meta-mod on the server list?
If not, could some of you list the unchained servers you play on?
There have been several listed in the thread, but see my sig for the server I play on, which does run unchained.