To me it looks like it's purpose was just to gather people not playing NS anymore or attract complaints about how it is or how it was compared to today. Also, asking this in a forum visited by people that 90% of them actualy play the game (not matter how often) sort of makes it funny too.
I am not trashing your post. You asked a question and want an answer (what kind and for what purpose ?). I admit, I didn't go through all single replies and it would be kind of pointless for me. Maybe the rest of the community wouldn't find it so.
So I'll answer with 2 comments :
1) I've been playing for almost at least 1 year 1/2 and loving it. It is my favorite game right now. I have other teamplay games but NS is the first one where I found the teamplay spirit to be the most present and used. I tried games like CS but dropped it. I didn't like CS because teamplay is almost none existant (you may start debating on this to prove me wrong but just DON'T. Stay with the purpose of this thread's owner). Before knowing about NS, HL didn't attract me at all because of how I thought the game was and because the fact it is an old game sort of turned me off too. But once I discovered NS, it made me think again about HL.
I play NS about 4-5 times per week and usualy between 23H-2am. This game also brought me to start working on a movie (Pre/Selection movie where I am the main modeler). It inspires me on other levels besides playing the game.
I like the story behind NS and it's environments. I have other games that are futuristic like the Unreal Tournament series but I droped them because I sort of got tired of futuristic games. NS is the exception. I keep coming back to it. It acts as cafeen on me.
2) I know a bit about game design. Since the balance issue is coming back alot, think about all those teamplay games with different classes. How many times do you think the developement team went through to refine/change the balance aspect ? There will always be people complaining no matter how good the game is. Negativity is alot easier then positivity (it's the natural way of humans. It's easier to destroy then to construct).
How easy do you think it is to balance such a game as NS ? It's not just as easy as increasing weapon damages for one player class, or simply switch one weapon from one player class to another. The tinyiest change can cause the balance to flip. It takes time to do this and, several trial and errors. If you can find THE best way to balance this game and make it so that NO ONE would complain, then go ahead. I challenge you.
A game that never gets updated by patches is either abandonned or perfect. Perfect games don't exist and games that people keep playing and coming back are rarely games that were abandonned. So logic states (I'm doing my mr Spock ! ) that in this case, it can only mean that the game has several updates. You can bet that if it is a teamplay game, then chances are that those updates may very well contain team balancing issues. So this is nothing new to the NS world.
Personnaly I don't care about the debate on team balance. I play both teams. I personnaly like games where the odds are against us. It is more challenging to play such games. You could say that in those types of game, the team balance is way off and against us. Good ! I cannot say that the other teamates see it the same way as I in those games. Very often, some will simply leave the game but wait, once they see the game has shifted in our favor, what do you know, they join back. They missed all the fun in the victorious times of the battle to reverse the game (balance) in our favor.
I do however, don't like it when it's a quiet game and with not many players where 1-2 alien teamates decide to save up for Onos and go devastate the marine base. I personnaly dislike this type of game. There is no honnor or challenge playing this type of game. I only go Onos when it is the best solution and not the easiest way.
So I hope I answered your thread (and didn't start any wars !).
p.s. : my usual response in situations where people complain in in-game sessions, I simply answer "war is war".
I used to play all the time, but recently I only boot up once or twice a month... I'm sorry, but I really miss version 1.
Mr favorite was 1.03 - after playing 2.0 for the first time I had a very bad feeling in the pit of my stomach. The change is almost as devastating as the switch from DX to DXIW.
Since 3.0 I've been playing cs. I've actually gotten better teamwork than in ns. <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<span style='color:white'>Related post nuked.</span>
tbh thats part of the problem. The players used to let people have their own opinions and play for fun, now as the emphesis of the game has shifted towards clan play people are playing to prove themselves - then you get the "my strat is better than your strat", "my opinion is more valid that yours" etc
You used to see a comm drop a TF in base with 6 turrets at the start of the game and just sigh quietly to yourself and ask him/her if there where new or wanted any assistance. (perhaps suggesting an ip next) now it seems the common reaction is to shout "noob" or worse and click the eject commander button followed by "we haven't got a com/our com is a noob!!! F4 F4"
Play the game for fun, if its not fun play something else - but I'd imagine highlighting what you find 'not fun' in a constructive manner is actually a nice thing to do.
eagle, sorry to say so, but if that's a new development to you, then I congratulate you on your hithero outstanding choice of servers. We've had elitsistic smacktards since day one - it's just a matter of finding a server where they're in the minority.
tbh thats part of the problem. The players used to let people have their own opinions and play for fun, now as the emphesis of the game has shifted towards clan play people are playing to prove themselves - then you get the "my strat is better than your strat", "my opinion is more valid that yours" etc
You used to see a comm drop a TF in base with 6 turrets at the start of the game and just sigh quietly to yourself and ask him/her if there where new or wanted any assistance. (perhaps suggesting an ip next) now it seems the common reaction is to shout "noob" or worse and click the eject commander button followed by "we haven't got a com/our com is a noob!!! F4 F4"
Play the game for fun, if its not fun play something else - but I'd imagine highlighting what you find 'not fun' in a constructive manner is actually a nice thing to do. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Its hard to play for fun when you know you will lose the entire game and it will take the aliens forever to end it
ThinGLord of wub and vlaaiJoin Date: 2003-04-11Member: 15400Members, Reinforced - Supporter
In reply to the very first post, that can be found many, many, many pages back in this heap of posts; Aye, I do play ns whenever I get the chance. Why? Because I am still able to enjoy myself while playing the game.
Everyone is entitled to give their opinion in threads as this, some do it well argumented, others just fling posts in here to boost their post count. NS has changed alot, I think noone will argue that fact. Some dislike the changes, some don't. Everyone their own; if you like the game you play it, if you don't you don't, sounds simple.
I think the game is as much fun as we make it ourselves. I think some of the people who represent the "NS sucks" side should have a look around on other servers and perhaps change their own approach to the game which could make them enjoy it once again. Everyone experiences a game of ns differently. Games are played differently on nearly every server. If you don't like ns on one server, try another. Explore the plethora of communities that are out there. A great deal of them will probably not be to your liking, but you only have to find one that is. A nice server with players that make for entertaining games is all you need. If you do so, you may very well discover entirely different styles of play. Places where aliens don't win every game, places where there are a variety of splendid comms, where there's teamwork and in general alot of good fun to be had.
If you don't want to put some effort into exploring the roughly 500 servers (variable number) that are out there and sob and post about how bad ns is on the forums, go ahead. I think it's going to be really hard to start enjoying ns again if you do so.
There are so many servers out there, so many people playing. The majority will probably not be to your liking. Find a small part of the ns community that is to your liking and enjoy yourself there. If you don't want to, then don't. If you do, all the better.
Here's a picture of a cute kitty in a hammock to lighten the mood!: <img src='http://sciweb.onysd.wednet.edu/users/g98s46/images/cat.hammock.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Time for some Earl Grey and biscuits.
Good day everyone <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
I get frustrated that its nearly impossible to find a decent game on a pub. Half the time its the marines turtling marine start waiting for death, and the other half is the aliens sitting at 1 hive 1 rt with hive 1 onos running around dying left and right
<!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Jun 7 2004, 06:55 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Jun 7 2004, 06:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I get frustrated that its nearly impossible to find a decent game on a pub. Half the time its the marines turtling marine start waiting for death, and the other half is the aliens sitting at 1 hive 1 rt with hive 1 onos running around dying left and right <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Dude, one of the two teams will have to lose. This is what happens when you cant give up when the game is obviously over. A winning alien team WILL trap marines in their base. A winning marine team WILL limit aliens to a res, a hive, and a few weak onos.
I feel the situation is already better than 2.0x, but the endgame needs to be quicker, and the midgame longer.
<!--QuoteBegin-Umbraed Monkey+Jun 7 2004, 07:16 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Umbraed Monkey @ Jun 7 2004, 07:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Jun 7 2004, 06:55 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Jun 7 2004, 06:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I get frustrated that its nearly impossible to find a decent game on a pub. Half the time its the marines turtling marine start waiting for death, and the other half is the aliens sitting at 1 hive 1 rt with hive 1 onos running around dying left and right <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Dude, one of the two teams will have to lose. This is what happens when you cant give up when the game is obviously over. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah well Natural Selection is the ONLY game I've played where the winner can be decided within 5 minutes, with 10 more minutes of cleanup following.
Well put. At least in UT2004, Tribes (did you know it's free now?), and Counter Strike the game at least ends when the last bullet hits the target. In NS, you have to hammer your head against a wall for a while before it ends. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I don't think that the changes have been "bad" -I just think that NS has lost it's focus during the process. It's no longer a "strategic-FPS" as much as it is pure deathmatching. IMO, it's a bit sad that this is exactly what the dev. team wanted when they published v2 (I'm referring to the update log here). But by all respects v2 has been the best NS thus far, v1 coming close second, and v3 hanging somewhere in the closet.
I'm part of the revisit 1.04, just fix the major problems bandwagon. Playing only on good servers I had loads of fun playing that version. Assuming the marines didn't do the jp rush I had the most entertaining games exclusively in 1.04 and was totally addicted to NS. Now I couldn't give a **** and generally play for a week or two just to see what its like and than take a couple of months break.
<!--QuoteBegin-Nemesis Zero+Jun 7 2004, 02:23 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Jun 7 2004, 02:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> eagle, sorry to say so, but if that's a new development to you, then I congratulate you on your hithero outstanding choice of servers. We've had elitsistic smacktards since day one - it's just a matter of finding a server where they're in the minority. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's hardly elitism... more like it's the want to play a game where you can actually make a difference. Games where marines have every node on the map electrified, 5 turret farms all over, and still take 20 minutes to kill the alien's only hive, are JUST NOT FUN. At all. It has absolutely nothing to do with elitism, it has everything to do with not wanting to play a boring game where you can either a) constantly suicide on a bunch of HA/turrets/elec as skulk or b) do nothing. It's just so horrible how nobody sees this. This is one of, if not the biggest problem with pubbing classic NS today. Removing TFs/Elec/Turrets would be a good start. Or at least make them *SIGNIFICANTLY* easier to kill. How hard is it for aliens to kill 10 turrets + PG? I'd say pretty much impossible on a pub unless you have 2-3 hives and an Onos or two with lerk/fade support. Right now, there is no way for a skulk to kill a TF and some turrets (how easy is it for a few marines and a shotgun to kill a couple OCs? not to mention they don't have to most of the time because of sieges/GL, which aren't limited by map control like bile bomb is) and most pub games start with the commander just putting up a turret farm in the second hive. From there, it's game over... you cannot do anything against turrets as aliens. Marines will simply phase through and, combined with turrets (who kill all the skulks), you're screwed even if you have fades, because fades alone do not cut it vs marines (even without turrets).
Why? Steam largely, and simply said, its an old game/mod.
The game is over two years old, and its a MOD too, not even an actual game with an official publisher behind it.
Considering the FPS shooters we have today to choose from: Farcry, Painkiller, Battlefield 1942 and Vietnam, Unreal Tournament 2004, not even to mention the upcoming releases of HL2 and Doom3, its had an incredible run.
Whether you think the game is better or worse in the current incarnation, the fact is this game has, and still holds the attention of thousands of gamers everwhere for months, and some cases, years at a time. That's amazing considering that most games that do that are considered legend: Starcraft, CS, The Sims, Diablo2 etc.
The truth is, NS has held its own for so long because of its great design and loving support from so many volunteer developers and solid fanbase, but its time is coming to a close, with HL2 on the *verge* of release, NS has no choice but face this sad fact. Not that it hasn't done its job in changing the face of gaming, I just read an article on how Battlefield 2 (not Vietnam) will have the ability to use a commander, who will be the only one with a third person view. Or anyone remember Savage?
NS has made it's mark, but when you compare it to the dense and enourmous worlds of Unreal2004, or the wonderful, lush photorealistic outdoor world of Farcry, its seems that this wonderful and successful game has simply outgrown its engine.
Ironically, the thing that Natural Selection really needs, its seems, is to evolve (to a more modern game engine at least).
Granted, in the competitive world of gaming there are tons of solid options and choices, but if I had to choose between half the muck out there and Natural Selection on an Unreal Engine with Flayra developing it? Even if I don't agree with some of the choices that Flayra has decided with this game, I respect his vision, and would have full confidence that any game he put out would be of the highest quality.
Afterall, for God's sake, what BETA version are we on? Jeez, release the official version already!
Personally I think it comes down to why we all play the game. I think there are 3 groups of people. The first focuses on simply playing the game to have fun (casual players). The second focuses on success/winning to have fun (competitive players). The third focuses on bringing anguish to anyone and everyone else regardless the cost to have fun (smacktards). Likewise there is a one to one relationship of where each group should ideally play. The first group should play on pubs, the second in pugs/scrims/tourneys, and the third in high-security penitentiaries for the mentally afflicted.
Discarding the third group for a while, trouble WILL arise when players of the other two groups mix. Not because one kind is any more RIGHT than the other, but there is a distinct conflict of interests. Fortunately not many casual players go and visit pugs/scrims/tourneys all that often so those scenes are highly argument free by comparison to the pubs counterparts. More often than not, a highly skilled and competitive player will frequent a pub and end up ruining the experience for most other people simply because they demean other players for not doing things right... or at least the way that they would do them. They will disobey orders (even if they are the most rediculous orders imaginable) because "they know better". These players tend to control the game to experience just one more victory as if their skill and dedication to the game ENTITLES them to such control. They often forget that they are not the only ones trying to enjoy the game on a given server.
Bottom line is this. In order to make EVERYONE happy simply stay playing where you ought and don't venture elsewhere without first understanding AND ACCEPTING the repurcussions of that decision. I've seen and heard from countless players who 'visit' pubs from time to time (or even 'retire' from competitive play) and can only seem to demean the pubs experience as boring or pointless or "full of noobs". To countless others this simply is not so. I find it difficult to understand why so many former casual pubbers can understand the repurcussions of playing competitively and adapt to them, and yet many (not all) competitive players can't grasp the repurcussions of simply playing for fun and even of those that CAN grasp them, few can ACCEPT them.
Maybe i'm overstepping my bounds, but if you can't find fun in playing the game no matter what the situation or inevitable outcome then DON'T play the game on servers where this is likely the case. And if you decide that you WILL play the game don't complain about it, because you know what you're getting into beforehand. If you didn't before this, now you do.
As to the question originally posed, I am slowly playing less and less of the game. Sure the development has had its hits and misses throughout when it comes to gameplay, but the most damning factor to me is the social dissension that is becoming more and more prolific on pubs and in the community in general. I have opted for games where the community is markedly more friendly and cooperative (Final Fantasy XI Online, Doom 2, AvP 2, Internet Reversi *I know its cheesy, but its fun*). Until this community can become more cohesive (something I don't really think is possible at this stage), the community will continue to lose players that might otherwise be very valuable to the game's experience as a whole.
OK, you can get on with your lives now... I'm done ranting and raving for tonight.
Na i stopped playing just because games in general bore me lately. Wating for HL2 and Doom 3 i guess but I think NS is progressing well and if i was gonna play a game it'd probably be ns.
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-Jeb_Radec+Jun 9 2004, 08:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jeb_Radec @ Jun 9 2004, 08:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Na i stopped playing just because games in general bore me lately. Wating for HL2 and Doom 3 i guess but I think NS is progressing well and if i was gonna play a game it'd probably be ns. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Just to point out, your combination of sig pic & text deeply amuses me. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Yeah, that text doesn't say anything about being on your back.
... she can live on her knees if she wants too <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Anyway, I don't have a computer at the moment but the first game I jump on when I do will be NS, simple as.
Comments
To me it looks like it's purpose was just to gather people not playing NS anymore or attract complaints about how it is or how it was compared to today. Also, asking this in a forum visited by people that 90% of them actualy play the game (not matter how often) sort of makes it funny too.
I am not trashing your post. You asked a question and want an answer (what kind and for what purpose ?). I admit, I didn't go through all single replies and it would be kind of pointless for me. Maybe the rest of the community wouldn't find it so.
So I'll answer with 2 comments :
1) I've been playing for almost at least 1 year 1/2 and loving it. It is my favorite game right now. I have other teamplay games but NS is the first one where I found the teamplay spirit to be the most present and used. I tried games like CS but dropped it. I didn't like CS because teamplay is almost none existant (you may start debating on this to prove me wrong but just DON'T. Stay with the purpose of this thread's owner). Before knowing about NS, HL didn't attract me at all because of how I thought the game was and because the fact it is an old game sort of turned me off too. But once I discovered NS, it made me think again about HL.
I play NS about 4-5 times per week and usualy between 23H-2am. This game also brought me to start working on a movie (Pre/Selection movie where I am the main modeler). It inspires me on other levels besides playing the game.
I like the story behind NS and it's environments. I have other games that are futuristic like the Unreal Tournament series but I droped them because I sort of got tired of futuristic games. NS is the exception. I keep coming back to it. It acts as cafeen on me.
2) I know a bit about game design. Since the balance issue is coming back alot, think about all those teamplay games with different classes. How many times do you think the developement team went through to refine/change the balance aspect ? There will always be people complaining no matter how good the game is. Negativity is alot easier then positivity (it's the natural way of humans. It's easier to destroy then to construct).
How easy do you think it is to balance such a game as NS ? It's not just as easy as increasing weapon damages for one player class, or simply switch one weapon from one player class to another. The tinyiest change can cause the balance to flip. It takes time to do this and, several trial and errors. If you can find THE best way to balance this game and make it so that NO ONE would complain, then go ahead. I challenge you.
A game that never gets updated by patches is either abandonned or perfect. Perfect games don't exist and games that people keep playing and coming back are rarely games that were abandonned. So logic states (I'm doing my mr Spock ! ) that in this case, it can only mean that the game has several updates. You can bet that if it is a teamplay game, then chances are that those updates may very well contain team balancing issues. So this is nothing new to the NS world.
Personnaly I don't care about the debate on team balance. I play both teams. I personnaly like games where the odds are against us. It is more challenging to play such games. You could say that in those types of game, the team balance is way off and against us. Good ! I cannot say that the other teamates see it the same way as I in those games. Very often, some will simply leave the game but wait, once they see the game has shifted in our favor, what do you know, they join back. They missed all the fun in the victorious times of the battle to reverse the game (balance) in our favor.
I do however, don't like it when it's a quiet game and with not many players where 1-2 alien teamates decide to save up for Onos and go devastate the marine base. I personnaly dislike this type of game. There is no honnor or challenge playing this type of game. I only go Onos when it is the best solution and not the easiest way.
So I hope I answered your thread (and didn't start any wars !).
p.s. : my usual response in situations where people complain in in-game sessions, I simply answer "war is war".
Mr favorite was 1.03 - after playing 2.0 for the first time I had a very bad feeling in the pit of my stomach. The change is almost as devastating as the switch from DX to DXIW.
tbh thats part of the problem. The players used to let people have their own opinions and play for fun, now as the emphesis of the game has shifted towards clan play people are playing to prove themselves - then you get the "my strat is better than your strat", "my opinion is more valid that yours" etc
You used to see a comm drop a TF in base with 6 turrets at the start of the game and just sigh quietly to yourself and ask him/her if there where new or wanted any assistance. (perhaps suggesting an ip next) now it seems the common reaction is to shout "noob" or worse and click the eject commander button followed by "we haven't got a com/our com is a noob!!! F4 F4"
Play the game for fun, if its not fun play something else - but I'd imagine highlighting what you find 'not fun' in a constructive manner is actually a nice thing to do.
tbh thats part of the problem. The players used to let people have their own opinions and play for fun, now as the emphesis of the game has shifted towards clan play people are playing to prove themselves - then you get the "my strat is better than your strat", "my opinion is more valid that yours" etc
You used to see a comm drop a TF in base with 6 turrets at the start of the game and just sigh quietly to yourself and ask him/her if there where new or wanted any assistance. (perhaps suggesting an ip next) now it seems the common reaction is to shout "noob" or worse and click the eject commander button followed by "we haven't got a com/our com is a noob!!! F4 F4"
Play the game for fun, if its not fun play something else - but I'd imagine highlighting what you find 'not fun' in a constructive manner is actually a nice thing to do. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its hard to play for fun when you know you will lose the entire game and it will take the aliens forever to end it
Everyone is entitled to give their opinion in threads as this, some do it well argumented, others just fling posts in here to boost their post count. NS has changed alot, I think noone will argue that fact. Some dislike the changes, some don't. Everyone their own; if you like the game you play it, if you don't you don't, sounds simple.
I think the game is as much fun as we make it ourselves. I think some of the people who represent the "NS sucks" side should have a look around on other servers and perhaps change their own approach to the game which could make them enjoy it once again. Everyone experiences a game of ns differently. Games are played differently on nearly every server. If you don't like ns on one server, try another. Explore the plethora of communities that are out there. A great deal of them will probably not be to your liking, but you only have to find one that is. A nice server with players that make for entertaining games is all you need. If you do so, you may very well discover entirely different styles of play. Places where aliens don't win every game, places where there are a variety of splendid comms, where there's teamwork and in general alot of good fun to be had.
If you don't want to put some effort into exploring the roughly 500 servers (variable number) that are out there and sob and post about how bad ns is on the forums, go ahead. I think it's going to be really hard to start enjoying ns again if you do so.
There are so many servers out there, so many people playing. The majority will probably not be to your liking. Find a small part of the ns community that is to your liking and enjoy yourself there. If you don't want to, then don't. If you do, all the better.
Here's a picture of a cute kitty in a hammock to lighten the mood!:
<img src='http://sciweb.onysd.wednet.edu/users/g98s46/images/cat.hammock.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Time for some Earl Grey and biscuits.
Good day everyone <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
Dude, one of the two teams will have to lose. This is what happens when you cant give up when the game is obviously over. A winning alien team WILL trap marines in their base. A winning marine team WILL limit aliens to a res, a hive, and a few weak onos.
I feel the situation is already better than 2.0x, but the endgame needs to be quicker, and the midgame longer.
Dude, one of the two teams will have to lose. This is what happens when you cant give up when the game is obviously over. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah well Natural Selection is the ONLY game I've played where the winner can be decided within 5 minutes, with 10 more minutes of cleanup following.
I don't think that the changes have been "bad" -I just think that NS has lost it's focus during the process. It's no longer a "strategic-FPS" as much as it is pure deathmatching. IMO, it's a bit sad that this is exactly what the dev. team wanted when they published v2 (I'm referring to the update log here). But by all respects v2 has been the best NS thus far, v1 coming close second, and v3 hanging somewhere in the closet.
It's hardly elitism... more like it's the want to play a game where you can actually make a difference. Games where marines have every node on the map electrified, 5 turret farms all over, and still take 20 minutes to kill the alien's only hive, are JUST NOT FUN. At all. It has absolutely nothing to do with elitism, it has everything to do with not wanting to play a boring game where you can either a) constantly suicide on a bunch of HA/turrets/elec as skulk or b) do nothing. It's just so horrible how nobody sees this. This is one of, if not the biggest problem with pubbing classic NS today. Removing TFs/Elec/Turrets would be a good start. Or at least make them *SIGNIFICANTLY* easier to kill. How hard is it for aliens to kill 10 turrets + PG? I'd say pretty much impossible on a pub unless you have 2-3 hives and an Onos or two with lerk/fade support. Right now, there is no way for a skulk to kill a TF and some turrets (how easy is it for a few marines and a shotgun to kill a couple OCs? not to mention they don't have to most of the time because of sieges/GL, which aren't limited by map control like bile bomb is) and most pub games start with the commander just putting up a turret farm in the second hive. From there, it's game over... you cannot do anything against turrets as aliens. Marines will simply phase through and, combined with turrets (who kill all the skulks), you're screwed even if you have fades, because fades alone do not cut it vs marines (even without turrets).
Stopped with 3.0
Why? Steam largely, and simply said, its an old game/mod.
The game is over two years old, and its a MOD too, not even an actual game with an official publisher behind it.
Considering the FPS shooters we have today to choose from: Farcry, Painkiller, Battlefield 1942 and Vietnam, Unreal Tournament 2004, not even to mention the upcoming releases of HL2 and Doom3, its had an incredible run.
Whether you think the game is better or worse in the current incarnation, the fact is this game has, and still holds the attention of thousands of gamers everwhere for months, and some cases, years at a time. That's amazing considering that most games that do that are considered legend: Starcraft, CS, The Sims, Diablo2 etc.
The truth is, NS has held its own for so long because of its great design and loving support from so many volunteer developers and solid fanbase, but its time is coming to a close, with HL2 on the *verge* of release, NS has no choice but face this sad fact. Not that it hasn't done its job in changing the face of gaming, I just read an article on how Battlefield 2 (not Vietnam) will have the ability to use a commander, who will be the only one with a third person view. Or anyone remember Savage?
NS has made it's mark, but when you compare it to the dense and enourmous worlds of Unreal2004, or the wonderful, lush photorealistic outdoor world of Farcry, its seems that this wonderful and successful game has simply outgrown its engine.
Ironically, the thing that Natural Selection really needs, its seems, is to evolve (to a more modern game engine at least).
Granted, in the competitive world of gaming there are tons of solid options and choices, but if I had to choose between half the muck out there and Natural Selection on an Unreal Engine with Flayra developing it? Even if I don't agree with some of the choices that Flayra has decided with this game, I respect his vision, and would have full confidence that any game he put out would be of the highest quality.
Afterall, for God's sake, what BETA version are we on? Jeez, release the official version already!
Discarding the third group for a while, trouble WILL arise when players of the other two groups mix. Not because one kind is any more RIGHT than the other, but there is a distinct conflict of interests. Fortunately not many casual players go and visit pugs/scrims/tourneys all that often so those scenes are highly argument free by comparison to the pubs counterparts. More often than not, a highly skilled and competitive player will frequent a pub and end up ruining the experience for most other people simply because they demean other players for not doing things right... or at least the way that they would do them. They will disobey orders (even if they are the most rediculous orders imaginable) because "they know better". These players tend to control the game to experience just one more victory as if their skill and dedication to the game ENTITLES them to such control. They often forget that they are not the only ones trying to enjoy the game on a given server.
Bottom line is this. In order to make EVERYONE happy simply stay playing where you ought and don't venture elsewhere without first understanding AND ACCEPTING the repurcussions of that decision. I've seen and heard from countless players who 'visit' pubs from time to time (or even 'retire' from competitive play) and can only seem to demean the pubs experience as boring or pointless or "full of noobs". To countless others this simply is not so. I find it difficult to understand why so many former casual pubbers can understand the repurcussions of playing competitively and adapt to them, and yet many (not all) competitive players can't grasp the repurcussions of simply playing for fun and even of those that CAN grasp them, few can ACCEPT them.
Maybe i'm overstepping my bounds, but if you can't find fun in playing the game no matter what the situation or inevitable outcome then DON'T play the game on servers where this is likely the case. And if you decide that you WILL play the game don't complain about it, because you know what you're getting into beforehand. If you didn't before this, now you do.
As to the question originally posed, I am slowly playing less and less of the game. Sure the development has had its hits and misses throughout when it comes to gameplay, but the most damning factor to me is the social dissension that is becoming more and more prolific on pubs and in the community in general. I have opted for games where the community is markedly more friendly and cooperative (Final Fantasy XI Online, Doom 2, AvP 2, Internet Reversi *I know its cheesy, but its fun*). Until this community can become more cohesive (something I don't really think is possible at this stage), the community will continue to lose players that might otherwise be very valuable to the game's experience as a whole.
OK, you can get on with your lives now... I'm done ranting and raving for tonight.
Just to point out, your combination of sig pic & text deeply amuses me. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
- Shockeh
... she can live on her knees if she wants too <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Anyway, I don't have a computer at the moment but the first game I jump on when I do will be NS, simple as.
(roll on september)