<!--QuoteBegin-GunFodder.+Jun 2 2004, 10:30 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (GunFodder. @ Jun 2 2004, 10:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I have kind of mulled the idea of free RT for aliens. Maybe they "grow" along with alien expansion. Maybe a bacteria growth follows the Khaara expansion a la the Zerg goo in SC. Put a couple of chambers or OCs around the node to let the bacterium infest the node and build an RT.
It would also force the marines to eradicate all of the structures around the node to totally destroy it. Perhaps other things can be used to "push" the growth forward. I'm thinking of border pushes for the Khaara like you see in Rise of Nations for example. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I <i>love</i> this guy's idea on the res towers, as well as loving everything Grendel posted <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
devicenullJoin Date: 2003-04-30Member: 15967Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
I love the free or cheap alien RT's... 5 res or less would make gorges less afriad of building them.. its almost impossible for aliens to come back if the marines manage to kill all their RT's for only a short amount of time.
On elec: Maybe we need to see elec have a regenerating energy, that regenerated a little faster then regen.. so 2 skulks could take out a rt if they worked together, but one couldnt.
The structures "growing" rts in close proximity idea is a bit funky, but now that i think about it, with the cost of the OC or DC or whatever you put near the RP to make it grow, it would be about the same as lowering RT costs. It's essentially like making RTs cost 10 res. True there is another 10 res implied in the gorge evolution but there is a neat side effect, if one is already gorge, it would be even better now wouldn't it?
As for RFK, i've never been an encourager of it as i'm not one to encourage camping or racking up kills just to show off your shiney score. Though it does give a well needed push in times of low res flow, i think maybe considering lowering it to ONLY 1 res reward per kill instead of the random 1-3 it gives now. 15 kills for a marine to pay for an rt... :/
iv & v) The kharaa have no pimp daddy to slap their slimy arses around for bread. As a result, in public play marines will naturally have vastly better resource management. Conversely, Kharaa are actively encouraged to "hold out" on their team as they are rewarded for being a "garden instrument" with the ability to evolve into a higher lifeform. In a clan game, this will be better managed, but the nature of individual resources means that whilst collectively the kharaa team have around 150+ RP, they can individually do a whole lot of nothing. On the other hand, the marine team can outfit three players with HMG/Shotguns, which can then be recovered, even if the original wielder [sic] is killed. These better weapons are almost guaranteed to return on their investment in terms of resources.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Idea: Socialist res system for Kharaa. Individual Kharaa can dump their res into the collective res pool to be redistributed. The kharaa must be near a finished alien res tower to dump res, and only one kharaa can do it at a time.
Probably been suggested before, but I have never seen it. It's not in this particular thread at least.
All your points have my support Grendel, except marine weapons vanishing upon death. I played a beta version that had that and it wasn't fun in my opinion.
I've never thought the marines should get RFK; it just doesn't make any sense from a storyline or gameplay perspective. Ages back i suggested that the marines be able to upgrade their res towers, so that the "tech" and "investment" aspect of the marine side is emphasised. I still think something like that could be implimented successfully.
Anything else I say will just be repeating what you said Grendel. Please, as a former playtest leader you must be able to whisper a word or two in Flayra's ear. If you could get him to stop by in this forum and persue these threads it would be fantastic. We're really trying to give constructive feedback but when the devs hardly achnoledge our existance it makes us feel like posting here is pointless.
Well, I strongly agree with all of Grendel's points save weapons disappearing on death. I especially like this idea of electricity draining energy - as anyone whose stuck a fork into a powersocket can testify, it not only hurts, but its bloody hard to carry on other activities with mass electron transfer going on in your muscles. Another point is...
Ah hell enough of this excuse making, the real reason I posted is to ridicule UQ's Humanities and Social Studies department finest: Ryo's spelling of acknowledge - achnoledge. So near, yet so far <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Hey my spell-checking fiancee was baking a cake. I'll openly admit that a combination of her and MS-Word have destroyed what little spelling skills I once had <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
GrendelAll that is fear...Join Date: 2002-07-19Member: 970Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, NS2 Playtester
edited June 2004
If you read what I wrote carefully, you will note that I don't support the removal of weapon persistance either. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
i love it when ideas I've stated before are cycled through someone else and labled as the new commandments passed down from god.
But as long as it gets implimented i honestly dont care. Good work. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Grendel I find that the commander usually wears the most bling, which he confiscates off marines to stop them moving so slowly. This balances out the Bling issue.
edit: And oh dear, you werent talking about jewelery.
GrendelAll that is fear...Join Date: 2002-07-19Member: 970Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, NS2 Playtester
<!--QuoteBegin-Trevelyan+Jun 3 2004, 05:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Trevelyan @ Jun 3 2004, 05:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i love it when ideas I've stated before are cycled through someone else and labled as the new commandments passed down from god.
But as long as it gets implimented i honestly dont care. Good work. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes. You have all ideas first. Well done. I stole them all. In fact, I spend my time looking through your posts for nuggets of wisdom.
<!--QuoteBegin-Trevelyan+Jun 3 2004, 04:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Trevelyan @ Jun 3 2004, 04:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i love it when ideas I've stated before are cycled through someone else and labled as the new commandments passed down from god. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I love it when people think they're the only one with an obvious idea.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Electricity - Of dubious worth. I would like to see electricity changed so that it rapidly drained Energy rather than Health. Think this through. If you can't see why it would be neat, you need to think harder.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well that is something no one has thought before. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> Good reading otherwise too, even though I'm pretty certain that "free-RT's" wouldn't work -cheaper; maybe, free; no. Nothing should be free in NS (cost either in energy, res, or HP).
Now, lets hope that someone from the dev.team read this and actually bothers to take a minute to answer -would be waste otherwise... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Definitely agree. It never made sense for them to have RFK anyway. It would discourage rambos as well, and thus encourage more "strike one or two locations" (which should be how marines best operate) instead of "strike everywhere" (which should be reserved for aliens). However, since this is a big change, it may require some marine costs adjustments.
<b>Upgrades need some form of maintainance or counter</b>
Although I like the idea of marine maintenance, I consider this type of solution is lower priority simply because it's likely to be difficult to implement and/or take a long time to balance.
On alien maintenance, upgrades should scale with the lifeforms, starting with 1 res for skulk to maybe 3 res for onos.
<b>Improve Alien Co-ordination</b>
Improve hivesight. On a related note, marine MT and HUD minimap could use some slight nerfs.
<b>Make Marine Resource nodes more expensive</b>
Mixed feelings on this. Removing RFK is already a big nerf, so maybe this is unnecessary. Make RTs more expensive ONLY IF removing RFK is an insufficient change.
<b>Make Marine Equipment Vanish after a marine is killed</b>
Have to agree with Flayra on this point - this would NOT be fun. Also, this would just encourage HA use.
<b>Unchain Upgrade Chambers</b>
Agreed. However, since this is a big change, evo chamber costs may need another look.
<b>Make Kharaa Resource Towers free or very cheap</b>
Combining this with all other marine resource nerfs may be too much. If anything, it should just be a slight decrease. I like how aliens can only plop one RT per alien at the start.
The best way to solve the alien res vs. team size problem is to directly address the way aliens receive res.
<b>Electricity - Of dubious worth. I would like to see electricity changed so that it rapidly drained Energy rather than Health.</b>
Pretty nifty idea <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Electricity draining energy instead of health.. very keen. Were this the case, I'd suggest reducing the cost of electrifying things and removing (or at least significant increasing) the limits on how many aliens electricity could affect. As a side benefit, it would get rid of the incredibly stupid "spawn-camp and electrify the last hive" humiliation strategy. Even when I'm on the marine end of that, I can't stand it. That's the one time I'll disobey direct orders and just shoot the hive down.
Eliminating RFK from the marines. In total agreement with this. RFK, so far as I remember, was put in to help cut down on the endless last-turtle of the marines. Unfortunately, given how currently early marine > early skulk, it now serves just to tip the balance against the aliens from the get-go.
Swarm bonus seems.. odd. I'd rather address this issue in another manner. Say by having the marine upgrades require the marines use some of the other structures. So rather than just armory humping, we'd have observatory humping for MT, proto-lab humping for upgraded armor, etc. If each building had it's own energy store, and each marine hump cost some of that energy, you even have a way to control how fast marines can re-grab upgrades without giving an easy way for griefers to decimate the marine res-flow.
Improving alien co-ordination is a must, and it's not that ephemeral either. Start by making mini-maps that make sense. Use different colors to denote vents and label the most commonly used areas, after all, I'm sure Kharaa can see more than the blue spectrum, so why are the maps stuck in it? Give kharaa more in-game communication methods, make them accessible through the right-click, and make them understandable by the human players on the Kharaa side. (Though I've learned how to differentiate the "Heal" sound from the "Attack" sound, it's taken a long time to do so.. so much for intuitive play.) Make structure parasites a different color/shape from standard, make the alien flashlight actually useful so that the Kharaa aren't oddly the ones that have the most trouble in the dark. Make hive-sight see hives. Make hive-sight see marines if a Kharaa can see them -- even if it's only the wounded ones, I don't care. Along the lines of making them less team dependant, you could actually give a general boost to the Kharaa, and balance it by giving the swarm bonus idea to the marines. (My idea for a swarm bonus has always been to give marine weapons a tiny bit of knockback on what it hits.. not enough to stop a charging skulk, but perhaps enough to slow it down a touch.. more lmg fire means more knockback.. so a big group can actually pin one up against a wall or something.)
I'm not so sure about making marine RTs more expensive. But I'd be happy enough to see the ability to recycle RTs removed. I understand why recycling is there for other structures, but for RTs it's just used to save a few resources after building in a non-holdable location. There should be a more significant penalty for that. Make it so marines don't build the RT unless they're sure they can hold it in other words.
Marine Equipment/Upgrade Chambers: I'm with you on both of these. No for the former, aye for the latter.
Reducint RT costs. Assuming some of the other ideas are put in, I don't think this one would be necessary, and I'm leery of it anyway. When an alien team gets going and actually puts down a few RTs early, they start flowing in so fast that getting the extra 15 for the next RT is no problem. Remember that hidden cost of 10 pays for the entire life of the gorge, so each RT built divides that hidden cost.
<!--QuoteBegin-Grendel+Jun 3 2004, 12:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Grendel @ Jun 3 2004, 12:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Trevelyan+Jun 3 2004, 05:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Trevelyan @ Jun 3 2004, 05:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i love it when ideas I've stated before are cycled through someone else and labled as the new commandments passed down from god.
But as long as it gets implimented i honestly dont care. Good work. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes. You have all ideas first. Well done. I stole them all. In fact, I spend my time looking through your posts for nuggets of wisdom. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Notice how i never said i came up with them... they are just "Noticed" when someone like you posts them <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
ChurchMeatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2Join Date: 2002-12-31Member: 11646Members, Constellation
Take away Marine RT recycling? That helps the marines more than hurts them. Whene a comm recycles an RT I laugh and immediately move on to the next RT. They gewt more res by letting it die.
<!--QuoteBegin-|ds|meatshield+Jun 4 2004, 02:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (|ds|meatshield @ Jun 4 2004, 02:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Take away Marine RT recycling? That helps the marines more than hurts them. Whene a comm recycles an RT I laugh and immediately move on to the next RT. They gewt more res by letting it die. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm with him.. Recycling removing helps marines.
Often a Comm will get panicked if he doesnt think his team can save it and recycle it all, when they could of saved it
Hmm, about the whole "upgrading maintenance" combined with the ability to turn upgrades on and off.
The commander gets his upgrades and if the marines are jsut walking around, securing rts, killing aliens, etc. he turns off maybe armor/weapons and keeps motion tracking so he isn't wasting res, but when the marines see a big group coming for them they can request for the comm to switch the upgrades on for a bit so they can kill the horde. When the comm is making a hive assualt, he hands out weapons and gets people close to the hive before turning on the upgrades so he has the cash to support his troops while in the hive. If the assault bogs down, the comm will be faced with A. Pulling back and getting more res for a second assault B. Reducing the amount of res he is pouring on his troops (pgs, med/ammo spam) C. Turning off upgrades and leaving his guys in the hive with added ammo/meds.
there would have to be a bit of a timer on switching the upgrades on and off, and I can see the comm turning off armor upgrades half way in, since no one on his team will have armor by that point.
The 'upkeep' ideas are interesting, but might lead to even more confusion for newer players, in what is already a game with a pretty steep learning curve. Perhaps something simpler, along the lines of building X, and all the upgrades that come from it, stop working if the marines control only one RT. Any other sort of tech dependence really won't have any effect on end game turtling, as all the important buildings are grouped in base surrounded by mines, turrets, and heavies with HMGs. But if marines actually had to control a single RT outside their base or they would lose, say, every upgrade above a1/w1, the turtling problem would be gone overnight. Except for relocations to double nodes, which already bring their own problems to the marines, this could really put a damper on marines playing 'alamo'.
The other ideas are all generally great. Taking away marine RFK would be nice, and would encourage the game to be played more as a teamwork game. Perhaps up the res gained from RTs a VERY small bit to compensate.
Elec RTs draining energy is an interesting idea that would be worth a PT in one build at least, to see how the game is changed around it. Movement first would become a lot more viable. Perhaps even offering this as an alternate upgrade along with standard electrifying (but not both at once). Electrification and... something. Anti-bacterial nanite cloud. Call it whatever you want. That way there's more strategic variation. Aliens went DC first? Use the anti-energy upgrade on your RTs. MC first? Electrify. Sens first? Win. But I digress...
Improving alien coordination is very much a needed change. The former loner team has turned very much into the teamwork-or-die team, but with the tools of the former. Anything visible on the minimap should also be visible on hive sight, for starters. The information is ALREADY THERE for players who know to look for it. Why force people to walk around with their minimap out all the time? Make it red dots, on hive sight, for all things marine related. Along with the multicolored para sprites previously mentioned.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Perhaps something simpler, along the lines of building X, and all the upgrades that come from it, stop working if the marines control only one RT. Any other sort of tech dependence really won't have any effect on end game turtling, as all the important buildings are grouped in base surrounded by mines, turrets, and heavies with HMGs. But if marines actually had to control a single RT outside their base or they would lose, say, every upgrade above a1/w1, the turtling problem would be gone overnight.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's supposedly what hive3 weapons are for, but since most of them are marginal it doesn't work that way.
I've beaten my head against the 'hive 3 weapons are weak' wall for so long that I've given up. They should be base breakers, they're simply not, and no amount of well though out, cogent arguing seems likely to change that. Oh well, I can still play the game, it's still somewhat balanced, it's just that long end games are dull. What can one do?
Well....end games are really only drawn out because aliens are uncoordinated at that point (i.e. aren't concerned in finishing off the marines quickly). Having 4 Onos and 4 Fades isn't the greatest thing because THE base-breaking weapon in the endgame is Xenocide. However, when the res comes rolling in, there aren't 4-5 skulks around to do a good Xeno rush to clear out Marines so the Onii and Fades can destroy base.
Charge needs to do its full 1.04 damage, Acid Rocket needs to do at least 50 damage with the current energy cost(right now it's just area effect gorge spit), Primal Scream needs a larger radius and longer duration, and the web limit needs to be raised. These abilities are supposed to be overpowered, their purpose is to allow aliens to put extreme pressure on the marines and end the game quickly in the event that they take complete map control. Currently they're just jokes and even if the aliens get 3 hives they're better off sticking with their previous abilities. I too am tired of arguing this with absolutely no dev acknowledgement of the problem.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Charge needs to do its full 1.04 damage, Acid Rocket needs to do at least 50 damage with the current energy cost(right now it's just area effect gorge spit), Primal Scream needs a larger radius and longer duration, and the web limit needs to be raised. These abilities are supposed to be overpowered, their purpose is to allow aliens to put extreme pressure on the marines and end the game quickly in the event that they take complete map control. Currently they're just jokes and even if the aliens get 3 hives they're better off sticking with their previous abilities. I too am tired of arguing this with absolutely no dev acknowledgement of the problem.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And why did they get nerfed? Combat. 3rd hive weapons can't be overpowered in Combat, otherwise it would throw the balance out. Before Combat, hive 3 weapons really were good; now they're pathetic jokes. I used AR the other day for the first time in months and I was nearly crying; it's like assaulting the marines with a nerf-ball.
Combat and Classic have to use differant rulesets. They are two very differant gameplay styles and forcing them both to use the same rules is affecting balance and gameplay badly.
Comments
It would also force the marines to eradicate all of the structures around the node to totally destroy it. Perhaps other things can be used to "push" the growth forward. I'm thinking of border pushes for the Khaara like you see in Rise of Nations for example. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I <i>love</i> this guy's idea on the res towers, as well as loving everything Grendel posted <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
On elec: Maybe we need to see elec have a regenerating energy, that regenerated a little faster then regen.. so 2 skulks could take out a rt if they worked together, but one couldnt.
As for RFK, i've never been an encourager of it as i'm not one to encourage camping or racking up kills just to show off your shiney score. Though it does give a well needed push in times of low res flow, i think maybe considering lowering it to ONLY 1 res reward per kill instead of the random 1-3 it gives now. 15 kills for a marine to pay for an rt... :/
anyhow, that's my two cents.
Killing a skulk will randomly give either 1 res, or 0 res. Same for gorges and lerks. Fade will give 2 res and onos 3 (all the time).
Skulks should be able to get upgrades for free. This will help boost the skulk because right now not many people use upgrades.
iv & v) The kharaa have no pimp daddy to slap their slimy arses around for bread. As a result, in public play marines will naturally have vastly better resource management. Conversely, Kharaa are actively encouraged to "hold out" on their team as they are rewarded for being a "garden instrument" with the ability to evolve into a higher lifeform.
In a clan game, this will be better managed, but the nature of individual resources means that whilst collectively the kharaa team have around 150+ RP, they can individually do a whole lot of nothing. On the other hand, the marine team can outfit three players with HMG/Shotguns, which can then be recovered, even if the original wielder [sic] is killed. These better weapons are almost guaranteed to return on their investment in terms of resources.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Idea: Socialist res system for Kharaa. Individual Kharaa can dump their res into the collective res pool to be redistributed. The kharaa must be near a finished alien res tower to dump res, and only one kharaa can do it at a time.
Probably been suggested before, but I have never seen it. It's not in this particular thread at least.
I've never thought the marines should get RFK; it just doesn't make any sense from a storyline or gameplay perspective. Ages back i suggested that the marines be able to upgrade their res towers, so that the "tech" and "investment" aspect of the marine side is emphasised. I still think something like that could be implimented successfully.
Anything else I say will just be repeating what you said Grendel. Please, as a former playtest leader you must be able to whisper a word or two in Flayra's ear. If you could get him to stop by in this forum and persue these threads it would be fantastic. We're really trying to give constructive feedback but when the devs hardly achnoledge our existance it makes us feel like posting here is pointless.
Ah hell enough of this excuse making, the real reason I posted is to ridicule UQ's Humanities and Social Studies department finest: Ryo's spelling of acknowledge - achnoledge. So near, yet so far <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/style_images/TSA_Skin-975/icon12.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> elec draining energy
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/style_images/TSA_Skin-975/icon12.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> This thread.
But as long as it gets implimented i honestly dont care. Good work. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
edit: And oh dear, you werent talking about jewelery.
But as long as it gets implimented i honestly dont care. Good work. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes. You have all ideas first. Well done. I stole them all. In fact, I spend my time looking through your posts for nuggets of wisdom.
I love it when people think they're the only one with an obvious idea.
EDIT: Beaten to the punch.
Well that is something no one has thought before. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> Good reading otherwise too, even though I'm pretty certain that "free-RT's" wouldn't work -cheaper; maybe, free; no. Nothing should be free in NS (cost either in energy, res, or HP).
Now, lets hope that someone from the dev.team read this and actually bothers to take a minute to answer -would be waste otherwise... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Definitely agree. It never made sense for them to have RFK anyway. It would discourage rambos as well, and thus encourage more "strike one or two locations" (which should be how marines best operate) instead of "strike everywhere" (which should be reserved for aliens). However, since this is a big change, it may require some marine costs adjustments.
<b>Upgrades need some form of maintainance or counter</b>
Although I like the idea of marine maintenance, I consider this type of solution is lower priority simply because it's likely to be difficult to implement and/or take a long time to balance.
On alien maintenance, upgrades should scale with the lifeforms, starting with 1 res for skulk to maybe 3 res for onos.
<b>Improve Alien Co-ordination</b>
Improve hivesight. On a related note, marine MT and HUD minimap could use some slight nerfs.
<b>Make Marine Resource nodes more expensive</b>
Mixed feelings on this. Removing RFK is already a big nerf, so maybe this is unnecessary. Make RTs more expensive ONLY IF removing RFK is an insufficient change.
<b>Make Marine Equipment Vanish after a marine is killed</b>
Have to agree with Flayra on this point - this would NOT be fun. Also, this would just encourage HA use.
<b>Unchain Upgrade Chambers</b>
Agreed. However, since this is a big change, evo chamber costs may need another look.
<b>Make Kharaa Resource Towers free or very cheap</b>
Combining this with all other marine resource nerfs may be too much. If anything, it should just be a slight decrease. I like how aliens can only plop one RT per alien at the start.
The best way to solve the alien res vs. team size problem is to directly address the way aliens receive res.
<b>Electricity - Of dubious worth. I would like to see electricity changed so that it rapidly drained Energy rather than Health.</b>
Pretty nifty idea <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Electricity draining energy instead of health.. very keen.
Were this the case, I'd suggest reducing the cost of electrifying things and removing (or at least significant increasing) the limits on how many aliens electricity could affect. As a side benefit, it would get rid of the incredibly stupid "spawn-camp and electrify the last hive" humiliation strategy. Even when I'm on the marine end of that, I can't stand it. That's the one time I'll disobey direct orders and just shoot the hive down.
Eliminating RFK from the marines. In total agreement with this. RFK, so far as I remember, was put in to help cut down on the endless last-turtle of the marines. Unfortunately, given how currently early marine > early skulk, it now serves just to tip the balance against the aliens from the get-go.
Swarm bonus seems.. odd. I'd rather address this issue in another manner. Say by having the marine upgrades require the marines use some of the other structures. So rather than just armory humping, we'd have observatory humping for MT, proto-lab humping for upgraded armor, etc. If each building had it's own energy store, and each marine hump cost some of that energy, you even have a way to control how fast marines can re-grab upgrades without giving an easy way for griefers to decimate the marine res-flow.
Improving alien co-ordination is a must, and it's not that ephemeral either. Start by making mini-maps that make sense. Use different colors to denote vents and label the most commonly used areas, after all, I'm sure Kharaa can see more than the blue spectrum, so why are the maps stuck in it? Give kharaa more in-game communication methods, make them accessible through the right-click, and make them understandable by the human players on the Kharaa side. (Though I've learned how to differentiate the "Heal" sound from the "Attack" sound, it's taken a long time to do so.. so much for intuitive play.) Make structure parasites a different color/shape from standard, make the alien flashlight actually useful so that the Kharaa aren't oddly the ones that have the most trouble in the dark. Make hive-sight see hives. Make hive-sight see marines if a Kharaa can see them -- even if it's only the wounded ones, I don't care. Along the lines of making them less team dependant, you could actually give a general boost to the Kharaa, and balance it by giving the swarm bonus idea to the marines. (My idea for a swarm bonus has always been to give marine weapons a tiny bit of knockback on what it hits.. not enough to stop a charging skulk, but perhaps enough to slow it down a touch.. more lmg fire means more knockback.. so a big group can actually pin one up against a wall or something.)
I'm not so sure about making marine RTs more expensive. But I'd be happy enough to see the ability to recycle RTs removed. I understand why recycling is there for other structures, but for RTs it's just used to save a few resources after building in a non-holdable location. There should be a more significant penalty for that. Make it so marines don't build the RT unless they're sure they can hold it in other words.
Marine Equipment/Upgrade Chambers: I'm with you on both of these. No for the former, aye for the latter.
Reducint RT costs. Assuming some of the other ideas are put in, I don't think this one would be necessary, and I'm leery of it anyway. When an alien team gets going and actually puts down a few RTs early, they start flowing in so fast that getting the extra 15 for the next RT is no problem. Remember that hidden cost of 10 pays for the entire life of the gorge, so each RT built divides that hidden cost.
But as long as it gets implimented i honestly dont care. Good work. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes. You have all ideas first. Well done. I stole them all. In fact, I spend my time looking through your posts for nuggets of wisdom. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Notice how i never said i came up with them... they are just "Noticed" when someone like you posts them <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I'm with him.. Recycling removing helps marines.
Often a Comm will get panicked if he doesnt think his team can save it and recycle it all, when they could of saved it
The commander gets his upgrades and if the marines are jsut walking around, securing rts, killing aliens, etc. he turns off maybe armor/weapons and keeps motion tracking so he isn't wasting res, but when the marines see a big group coming for them they can request for the comm to switch the upgrades on for a bit so they can kill the horde.
When the comm is making a hive assualt, he hands out weapons and gets people close to the hive before turning on the upgrades so he has the cash to support his troops while in the hive. If the assault bogs down, the comm will be faced with
A. Pulling back and getting more res for a second assault
B. Reducing the amount of res he is pouring on his troops (pgs, med/ammo spam)
C. Turning off upgrades and leaving his guys in the hive with added ammo/meds.
there would have to be a bit of a timer on switching the upgrades on and off, and I can see the comm turning off armor upgrades half way in, since no one on his team will have armor by that point.
The other ideas are all generally great. Taking away marine RFK would be nice, and would encourage the game to be played more as a teamwork game. Perhaps up the res gained from RTs a VERY small bit to compensate.
Elec RTs draining energy is an interesting idea that would be worth a PT in one build at least, to see how the game is changed around it. Movement first would become a lot more viable. Perhaps even offering this as an alternate upgrade along with standard electrifying (but not both at once). Electrification and... something. Anti-bacterial nanite cloud. Call it whatever you want. That way there's more strategic variation. Aliens went DC first? Use the anti-energy upgrade on your RTs. MC first? Electrify. Sens first? Win. But I digress...
Improving alien coordination is very much a needed change. The former loner team has turned very much into the teamwork-or-die team, but with the tools of the former. Anything visible on the minimap should also be visible on hive sight, for starters. The information is ALREADY THERE for players who know to look for it. Why force people to walk around with their minimap out all the time? Make it red dots, on hive sight, for all things marine related. Along with the multicolored para sprites previously mentioned.
That's supposedly what hive3 weapons are for, but since most of them are marginal it doesn't work that way.
That being said, AR needs a boost.
And why did they get nerfed? Combat. 3rd hive weapons can't be overpowered in Combat, otherwise it would throw the balance out. Before Combat, hive 3 weapons really were good; now they're pathetic jokes. I used AR the other day for the first time in months and I was nearly crying; it's like assaulting the marines with a nerf-ball.
Combat and Classic have to use differant rulesets. They are two very differant gameplay styles and forcing them both to use the same rules is affecting balance and gameplay badly.