Marijuana Legalization
Trevelyan
Join Date: 2003-03-23 Member: 14834Members
Join Date: 2003-03-23 Member: 14834Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Your opinion/thoughts</div> Disclaimer: Due to the sensative nature of the topic (it "violates" the main forum rule about discussing illegal things), I've taken the liberty to discuss if posting this thread is legit. Please take the following seriously, as they are exact quotes from a forum admin (thus you do <b>not</b> want to **** them off):
<!--QuoteBegin-Talesin_BatBat+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin_BatBat)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So long as it's kept to a reasonable discussion about the utilization, and doesn't end up with anyone mentioning that they've taken it, or recommending that someone else SHOULD take it, it should be fine.
If it does degrade into that, it'll be their **** on the line. Keep your own nose clean, and the admins/mods will deal with the rest.
Though I'd recommend a part of your first post include a warning not to get into that aspect, simply to keep it to a debate as to why/not it should be legalized.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Marijuana is naturally grown, it is not addictive, and is dwarfed by the other illegal drugs. Cocaine and heroin are proven to not only be VERY physically addicting (thus leading to more abuse then use, notice there is a difference) but it also is harmful towards your body. Decreased dopamine levels in the brain from using to much cocain leads to depression and yes... addiction. and Heroin, that stuff is so bad I didn't even bother reading up on the stuff.
The stuff is bad, just like everything else we use in life today... however moderation is the key. Drugs like heroin usually leave no room for moderation... the physical addiction drives more use, which deepens the addiction... and the cycle continues till the user has a intervention or dies. Marijuana has no such ill effects. I'm sure you've heard of those anti-weed commercials stating one joint is as bad as 5 cigs... however a joint will get a single person high for the good majority of the day... now how many people do you know who smoke cigs by the pack each day? you see? their addiction drives them to consume more and more... weed doesn't lose it's "punch". the same joint will get a person high even after months of use.
In the united states weed is illegal... causing weed to be handled by people many personally dont enjoy thinking of handling it. Sub-standard weed is grown indoors in secret... forcing users to smoke more for the same effects. It puts people in jail unnessesarily (a BIG problem with crowding jails) and it allows the government to sieze a normal, healthy persons life and totally destroy it. Headshops are getting shut down, denying smokers access to filtering methods such as water bongs/pipes. If legalised users wouldn't even have to smoke it anymore... I've spoken to friends in holland who enjoy a herbal tea every day. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> Also, THC pills and cooking (the infamous pot brownies) will allow consumption without inhailing smoke.
And dont think that weed is still illegal simply because of it's effects on humans. Have you any idea what hemp can be turned into? Industrial hemp makes better paper than wood using less land space and less resources(the US Constitution was printed on hemp).Hemp can be grown organically in poor soil almost anywhere, up to three crops per year, far more efficient than lumber. Hemp is naturally drought, pest, and disease resistant, eliminating the need for synthetic chemicals and reducing the demand on dwindling water supplies. It makes fuel (big uhoh for the big oil companies which have the $$$$ to keep the politicians happy), As a biomass, hemp burns hotter and cleaner than coal. Hemp can also be converted to methane or methanol.
<a href='http://www.artistictreasure.com/learnmorecleanair.html' target='_blank'>http://www.artistictreasure.com/learnmorecleanair.html</a>
it also makes great clothing and rope.
If tobacco was invented just today, it would most likely be classified as a narcotic. Likewise, if marihuana had become a major article of trade to Europe in the middle ages, it'd probably be as accepted as tobacco today. Life sure would be different around here if certian events did/didn't happen long ago.
<a href='http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/hemp/general/gier1.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/hemp/general/gier1.htm</a>
I guess I'm spent for now... please post your thoughts and feelings on the topic after re-reading the above disclaimer.
<!--QuoteBegin-Talesin_BatBat+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin_BatBat)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So long as it's kept to a reasonable discussion about the utilization, and doesn't end up with anyone mentioning that they've taken it, or recommending that someone else SHOULD take it, it should be fine.
If it does degrade into that, it'll be their **** on the line. Keep your own nose clean, and the admins/mods will deal with the rest.
Though I'd recommend a part of your first post include a warning not to get into that aspect, simply to keep it to a debate as to why/not it should be legalized.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Marijuana is naturally grown, it is not addictive, and is dwarfed by the other illegal drugs. Cocaine and heroin are proven to not only be VERY physically addicting (thus leading to more abuse then use, notice there is a difference) but it also is harmful towards your body. Decreased dopamine levels in the brain from using to much cocain leads to depression and yes... addiction. and Heroin, that stuff is so bad I didn't even bother reading up on the stuff.
The stuff is bad, just like everything else we use in life today... however moderation is the key. Drugs like heroin usually leave no room for moderation... the physical addiction drives more use, which deepens the addiction... and the cycle continues till the user has a intervention or dies. Marijuana has no such ill effects. I'm sure you've heard of those anti-weed commercials stating one joint is as bad as 5 cigs... however a joint will get a single person high for the good majority of the day... now how many people do you know who smoke cigs by the pack each day? you see? their addiction drives them to consume more and more... weed doesn't lose it's "punch". the same joint will get a person high even after months of use.
In the united states weed is illegal... causing weed to be handled by people many personally dont enjoy thinking of handling it. Sub-standard weed is grown indoors in secret... forcing users to smoke more for the same effects. It puts people in jail unnessesarily (a BIG problem with crowding jails) and it allows the government to sieze a normal, healthy persons life and totally destroy it. Headshops are getting shut down, denying smokers access to filtering methods such as water bongs/pipes. If legalised users wouldn't even have to smoke it anymore... I've spoken to friends in holland who enjoy a herbal tea every day. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> Also, THC pills and cooking (the infamous pot brownies) will allow consumption without inhailing smoke.
And dont think that weed is still illegal simply because of it's effects on humans. Have you any idea what hemp can be turned into? Industrial hemp makes better paper than wood using less land space and less resources(the US Constitution was printed on hemp).Hemp can be grown organically in poor soil almost anywhere, up to three crops per year, far more efficient than lumber. Hemp is naturally drought, pest, and disease resistant, eliminating the need for synthetic chemicals and reducing the demand on dwindling water supplies. It makes fuel (big uhoh for the big oil companies which have the $$$$ to keep the politicians happy), As a biomass, hemp burns hotter and cleaner than coal. Hemp can also be converted to methane or methanol.
<a href='http://www.artistictreasure.com/learnmorecleanair.html' target='_blank'>http://www.artistictreasure.com/learnmorecleanair.html</a>
it also makes great clothing and rope.
If tobacco was invented just today, it would most likely be classified as a narcotic. Likewise, if marihuana had become a major article of trade to Europe in the middle ages, it'd probably be as accepted as tobacco today. Life sure would be different around here if certian events did/didn't happen long ago.
<a href='http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/hemp/general/gier1.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/hemp/general/gier1.htm</a>
I guess I'm spent for now... please post your thoughts and feelings on the topic after re-reading the above disclaimer.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Personally, I'd have to place my principles on the 'legalize' side of the table.
At the moment, the mistruths and outright lies placed forth by federally-funded programs are pretty atrocious. For one, a commercial series involving kids smoking pot, and harming others... getting paranoid and shooting their friend, driving while stoned and running small children over.
Chemically speaking, marijuana is less-harmful to your body (when regulated and 'clean') than even the lightest of tobacco cigarettes. In fact, the human brain holds receptors specifically for the active chemical component, that are exceedingly rarely triggered. It would seem that in the past, humans had a much closer relationship with marijuana than most officials are willing to let on, given the level of development shown.
Some facts (and extrapolations):<ul><li>Marijuana does not induce paranoia if 'clean' (aka: not cut with other drugs)</li><li>Marijuana induces a state of well-being and lethargy</li><li>Marijuana does induce hunger reflexes in many</li><li>Roughly one out of every three thousand have the chemical receptors placed incorrectly, making them quick to anger after smoking</li><li>There are NO FDA-approved mood-enhancers available to the general market, without prescription</li></ul>
Extrapolations being.. well, if it doesn't make you into a raving maniac (as seen in many 60s era films, including '<i>DOPE HELL!</i>'), what exactly is the problem? The hunger? Perhaps the FDA is afraid of mobs of stoned zombies walking the land, pillaging 7-11s for twinkies and chips?
Actually, no. The original reason for the ban was based on a much simpler factor... greed. After all, if you could choose between a cigarette that made you feel sick but calm, jittery later, and was addictive... and one that made you relax and feel good for a while, which would you pick?
Tobacco kings had plenty of cash to push bills through and advertise against things they didn't like... it's the same reason cars currently run (for the most part) on gasoline. Those with money decided to lock down their business by having laws instated to prevent competing standards.
All-around, I'd much rather have marijuana be legal, and tobacco illegal. After all.. it's hard to get teenage smokers who can't quit when they get older, with pot. No physical addiction (psychological addiction is still possible) as there's no nicotine to deal with.
As already stated, marijuana has no physical addiction. Therefor, tabaco companies hate it. Oil companies hate it because it's a better source of fuel. I'm sure cotton companies don't like it either.
One of the few things I dislike about Capitolism is that who has the money has the power. (That said, please don't turn this into a capitolism vs comunism thread...)
Now, as an alternative to better means of intoxication (refering to alcohol) consumption of marijuana does not leave a nasty hangover effect, it does not cause agrovation like alcohol either.
It should be legal, but chances are, it will never be... or at least for a while anyway.
Oh yea, it could save the US $$$ too. By stoping the drug war (for marijuana at least) because the US would save millions each year that it spends on stoping marijuana trafficers.
When someone gets high, there's really no damage done. there's the stereotypical munchies and sudden fascination with shiny objects (I'm reaching waaay out of my realm of experience here <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->)... anyway... Whatever there is is for the most part very mellow. I'm sure there's plenty of cases where not-so-good things have happened, but in general there's little to no harm done.
When someone gets drunk, on the other hand, they hurt people. Themselves, family, random people... not always, but the potential is far greater. You don't hear about someone getting stoned and starting a huge fight or wrapping their car around a tree, killing 5 innocent bystanders in the process but themselves surviving.
It interests me, then, as to why we spend so much time and money policing marijuana when alcohol is (mostly) legal and has far greater potential for destructive behaviors as a result. Not only would there be money saved in legalizing it from legal costs and police busts and whatnot, but there'd be no need for any drug trade for this particular commodity.
I would still propose restrictions, though, particularly on driving and certain other tasks. Reasoning is that you shouldn't be driving under the influence of -anything- that affects your state of mine, even if it is totally legal.
This would be a problem because they would cause traffic jams, but we have bicycle-lanes, why shouldn't we have stoned-lanes? We might not call them that for obvious reasons but I am 90% serious, legalizing weed would be a good thing (this + all the other arguments [no serious harmful affects etc.] posted above).
Of most striking note was this little quote from that site.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Myth: No one has ever died from using marijuana
The Kaiser study also found that daily pot users have a 30% higher risk of injuries, presumably from accidents. These figures are significant, though not as high as comparable risks for heavy drinkers or tobacco addicts. <b>That pot can cause accidents is scarcely surprising, since marijuana has been shown to degrade short-term memory, concentration, judgment, and coordination at complex tasks including driving.(1)</b> There have been numerous reports of pot-related accidents --- some of them fatal, belying the attractive myth that no one has ever died from marijuana. One survey of 1023 emergency room trauma patients in Baltimore found that fully 34.7% were under the influence of marijuana, more even than alcohol (33.5%); half of these (16.5%) used both pot and alcohol in combination.(2) This is perhaps the most troublesome research ever reported about marijuana; as we shall see, other accident studies have generally found pot to be less dangerous than alcohol. Nonetheless, it is important to be informed on all sides of the issue. <b>Pot smokers should be aware that accidents are the number one hazard of moderate pot use. In addition, of course, the psychoactive effects of cannabis can have many other adverse effects on performance, school work, and productivity</b>.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Talk about kicking your own rear.
And then even on<a href='http://www.marijuananews.com/marijuananews/cowan/is_marijuana_addictive.htm' target='_blank'>Marijuana news</a> they shy away from stating flat out that its not addictive. I know several people that are "pot-heads", and its kinda hard to say its not addictive when they are lighting up daily, and seem to really NEED it. A man who used to work with me was fired from his job because he repeatedly showed up to work stoned and set a chair on fire. Sure you can argue its no worse than alcohol for addiction, but to claim its not addictive....
<a href='http://www.marijuanaaddiction.info/facts-about-marijuana.htm' target='_blank'>This Site</a>, Talesin, quotes a list of "facts" about marijuana that stand exactly contrary to yours.
Face it people, we have enough stupid stuff that screws up people legalised already. Alcohol, tobacco, pokies, forums, irc - why add more?
<!--QuoteBegin-Talesin_BatBat+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin_BatBat)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So long as it's kept to a reasonable discussion about the utilization, and doesn't end up with anyone mentioning that they've taken it, or recommending that someone else SHOULD take it, it should be fine.
If it does degrade into that, it'll be their **** on the line. Keep your own nose clean, and the admins/mods will deal with the rest.
Though I'd recommend a part of your first post include a warning not to get into that aspect, simply to keep it to a debate as to why/not it should be legalized.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Marijuana is naturally grown, it is not addictive, and is dwarfed by the other illegal drugs. Cocaine and heroin are proven to not only be VERY physically addicting (thus leading to more abuse then use, notice there is a difference) but it also is harmful towards your body. Decreased dopamine levels in the brain from using to much cocain leads to depression and yes... addiction. and Heroin, that stuff is so bad I didn't even bother reading up on the stuff.
The stuff is bad, just like everything else we use in life today... however moderation is the key. Drugs like heroin usually leave no room for moderation... the physical addiction drives more use, which deepens the addiction... and the cycle continues till the user has a intervention or dies. Marijuana has no such ill effects. I'm sure you've heard of those anti-weed commercials stating one joint is as bad as 5 cigs... however a joint will get a single person high for the good majority of the day... now how many people do you know who smoke cigs by the pack each day? you see? their addiction drives them to consume more and more... weed doesn't lose it's "punch". the same joint will get a person high even after months of use.
In the united states weed is illegal... causing weed to be handled by people many personally dont enjoy thinking of handling it. Sub-standard weed is grown indoors in secret... forcing users to smoke more for the same effects. It puts people in jail unnessesarily (a BIG problem with crowding jails) and it allows the government to sieze a normal, healthy persons life and totally destroy it. Headshops are getting shut down, denying smokers access to filtering methods such as water bongs/pipes. If legalised users wouldn't even have to smoke it anymore... I've spoken to friends in holland who enjoy a herbal tea every day. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> Also, THC pills and cooking (the infamous pot brownies) will allow consumption without inhailing smoke.
And dont think that weed is still illegal simply because of it's effects on humans. Have you any idea what hemp can be turned into? Industrial hemp makes better paper than wood using less land space and less resources(the US Constitution was printed on hemp).Hemp can be grown organically in poor soil almost anywhere, up to three crops per year, far more efficient than lumber. Hemp is naturally drought, pest, and disease resistant, eliminating the need for synthetic chemicals and reducing the demand on dwindling water supplies. It makes fuel (big uhoh for the big oil companies which have the $$$$ to keep the politicians happy), As a biomass, hemp burns hotter and cleaner than coal. Hemp can also be converted to methane or methanol.
<a href='http://www.artistictreasure.com/learnmorecleanair.html' target='_blank'>http://www.artistictreasure.com/learnmorecleanair.html</a>
it also makes great clothing and rope.
If tobacco was invented just today, it would most likely be classified as a narcotic. Likewise, if marihuana had become a major article of trade to Europe in the middle ages, it'd probably be as accepted as tobacco today. Life sure would be different around here if certian events did/didn't happen long ago.
<a href='http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/hemp/general/gier1.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/hemp/general/gier1.htm</a>
I guess I'm spent for now... please post your thoughts and feelings on the topic after re-reading the above disclaimer. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with Trev, the only reason I believe its still illegal is the fact it is a gateway drug. Alone it is innocent enough, however it leads to the worse stuff such as heroin, crack, list goes on.
If it was to be legalized, it would have to be strictly regulated, and I also think the taxation coming from legal pot would definately put more money back into the government It would be a win/win situation if it wasn't for the gateway aspsect
I completely agree. I think if legalized we should tax it a lot(use the revenue for DARE and for law enforcement), just like we do to cancer sticks.
My only concern is, if legalized how do you contol such a substance. Unlike cancer sticks, weed can be backed in to delicious little snacks. I guess Im just more concerned about kids getting a hold of the stuff. I personally dont care how adults screw themselves up, so long as it doesnt effect me.
Think about the "War" for a few minutes. How many tens of billions of dollars are spent each year trying to stop people from smoking a little dope at a party? What a waste of tax dollars that could be better put to other things, like education or alternative energy research.
The irony, of course, is that American youth enjoy it <b>more</b> because it is illegal. The legality issue lends just the perfect amount of rebelliousness to a pleasureable behavior that drug use has a certain mystique for those desiring to "stick it to the man." Meanwhile, the government wastes billions in the blakc hole that is the war on drugs, which the US government lost 40 years ago. Millions of Americans smoke pot. I may not be one of them, but I know that there are urban professionals, working families, rich people, and poor people all toking up a few times a month.
The war on drugs has been a complete failure, but because it is one of the "sacred cows" that no politician is willing to kill, it goes on, sucking down more and more money.
the war on drugs was "lost" back in the 1700's when the puritain way of life died out.
<!--QuoteBegin-Handman+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Handman)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->My only concern is, if legalized how do you contol such a substance. Unlike cancer sticks, weed can be backed in to delicious little snacks. I guess Im just more concerned about kids getting a hold of the stuff. I personally dont care how adults screw themselves up, so long as it doesnt effect me. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A reasonable concern... but how is that any different then sneaking a bottle of hard liquor to them? I believe you have heard this before: Where there is a will, there is a way.
<!--QuoteBegin-Marine01+Jun 6 2004, 06:56 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Marine01 @ Jun 6 2004, 06:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Myth: No one has ever died from using marijuana
The Kaiser study also found that daily pot users have a 30% higher risk of injuries, presumably from accidents. These figures are significant, <b>though not as high as comparable risks for heavy drinkers or tobacco addicts.</b> That pot can cause accidents is scarcely surprising, since marijuana has been shown to degrade short-term memory, concentration, judgment, and coordination at complex tasks including driving.(1) There have been numerous reports of pot-related accidents --- <b>some</b> of them fatal, belying the attractive myth that no one has ever died from marijuana. One survey of 1023 emergency room trauma patients in Baltimore found that fully 34.7% were under the influence of marijuana,
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Amazingly high number there, no pun intended... over 348 people in the emergency ward, found to smoke pot? Much less RECENTLY upon arrival?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> more even than alcohol (33.5%); half of these (16.5%) used both pot and alcohol in combination.(2) This is perhaps the most troublesome research ever reported about marijuana; as we shall see, other accident studies have generally found pot to be less dangerous than alcohol.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Notice how they neglect to mention if the ones combining pot and alcohol were the most severe, or where they were in comparative severity to the alcohol, or non-inebriated patients.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Nonetheless, it is important to be informed on all sides of the issue. <b>Pot smokers should be aware that accidents are the number one hazard of moderate pot use. In addition, of course, the psychoactive effects of cannabis can have many other adverse effects on performance, school work, and productivity</b>.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Interesting how they say 'informed on all sides of the issue' and then continue to harp. No positive points presented.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Talk about kicking your own rear.
And then even on<a href='http://www.marijuananews.com/marijuananews/cowan/is_marijuana_addictive.htm' target='_blank'>Marijuana news</a> they shy away from stating flat out that its not addictive. I know several people that are "pot-heads", and its kinda hard to say its not addictive when they are lighting up daily, and seem to really NEED it. A man who used to work with me was fired from his job because he repeatedly showed up to work stoned and set a chair on fire. Sure you can argue its no worse than alcohol for addiction, but to claim its not addictive....
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Please be precise with your types of addiction. I stated above that physical addiction is not an issue.. you don't have nicotine or other physically addictive substances to deal with. <i>Psychological</i> addiction is completely possible, again, as stated above.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
<a href='http://www.marijuanaaddiction.info/facts-about-marijuana.htm' target='_blank'>This Site</a>, Talesin, quotes a list of "facts" about marijuana that stand exactly contrary to yours.
Face it people, we have enough stupid stuff that screws up people legalised already. Alcohol, tobacco, pokies, forums, irc - why add more?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd never guess that a site coming from 'www.marijuanaaddiction.info' would hold negative 'facts'. Similar to the 'truth' ads, they choose what to say and what not to say, to cast their subject into the worst possible light. And pre-1992... you mean the same type of era where '<i>DOPE HELL!</i>' was produced, misinformation was the key to control, and Bush was living large? I guess not much has changed since then.. except we get better special effects in our movies. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Also, most of the 'facts' on Narconon's website (inspired name, innit?) are true... but stretch it. They qualify all BS statements very carefully. Such as that:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Studies show that someone who smokes five joints per day may be taking in as many cancer-causing chemicals as someone who smokes a full pack of cigarettes every day.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Note the carefully placed 'may'. Used in this manner, it can be used to qualify anything... The following misquotes are also true, for example:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Studies show that someone who smokes five joints per day may be suceptible to go on a shooting rampage.
Studies show that someone who smokes five joints per day may land on the moon.
Studies show that someone who smokes five joints per day may be prone to eat pretzels.
Studies show that someone who smokes five joints per day may drink yak's milk at the same time, while singing Yankee Doodle Dandy, suspended by their privates 100 feet over a tank of whooping cranes.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It can be used to say anything you feel like. I held back one because it'd invite a crossover thread. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
And the 'gateway drug' stereotype has been blasted to bits. Politicians may keep using it, and outdated websites might... but people have caught a clue as of late. The new 'gateway drug' is E, of course. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
And one of the explanations on why the whole 'gateway' phenomena occurred was summed up quite nicely. For the longest time, marijuana has been held next to heroin, cocaine (*cough*), smack, meth, and so on as an equal. Due to its prolific growing nature, it's fairly common and cheap.
Catching on, yet?
A kid gets ahold of some, and tries it with friends. He comes down sometime, and realizes 'hey! this isn't going to turn me into a homicidal maniac! they were lying! I wonder...'
It wasn't the drug doing it. It was the lies.
I see enough people in my school smoking it, the US government should at least get some profit out of what seems to be a futile effort to curb the drug. It's disgusting, but they do it anyway, so might as well tax it.
One question though...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->[*]Marijuana induces a state of well-being and lethargy<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Do we really need another <u>government-approved</u> reason for Americans to be lazy?
<!--QuoteBegin-Marine01+Jun 6 2004, 06:56 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Marine01 @ Jun 6 2004, 06:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Myth: No one has ever died from using marijuana
The Kaiser study also found that daily pot users have a 30% higher risk of injuries, presumably from accidents. These figures are significant, <b>though not as high as comparable risks for heavy drinkers or tobacco addicts.</b> That pot can cause accidents is scarcely surprising, since marijuana has been shown to degrade short-term memory, concentration, judgment, and coordination at complex tasks including driving.(1) There have been numerous reports of pot-related accidents --- <b>some</b> of them fatal, belying the attractive myth that no one has ever died from marijuana. One survey of 1023 emergency room trauma patients in Baltimore found that fully 34.7% were under the influence of marijuana,
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Amazingly high number there, no pun intended... over 348 people in the emergency ward, found to smoke pot? Much less RECENTLY upon arrival?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> more even than alcohol (33.5%); half of these (16.5%) used both pot and alcohol in combination.(2) This is perhaps the most troublesome research ever reported about marijuana; as we shall see, other accident studies have generally found pot to be less dangerous than alcohol.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Notice how they neglect to mention if the ones combining pot and alcohol were the most severe, or where they were in comparative severity to the alcohol, or non-inebriated patients.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
marijuana stays in the system long after smoking it. It is fat soluable, like vitamin C... it is stored in the fat and thus shows up on drug tests even months after use. That usually skews results like those.
<!--QuoteBegin-Talesin_BatBat+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin_BatBat)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Talk about kicking your own rear.
And then even on<a href='http://www.marijuananews.com/marijuananews/cowan/is_marijuana_addictive.htm' target='_blank'>Marijuana news</a> they shy away from stating flat out that its not addictive. I know several people that are "pot-heads", and its kinda hard to say its not addictive when they are lighting up daily, and seem to really NEED it. A man who used to work with me was fired from his job because he repeatedly showed up to work stoned and set a chair on fire. Sure you can argue its no worse than alcohol for addiction, but to claim its not addictive....
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Please be precise with your types of addiction. I stated above that physical addiction is not an issue.. you don't have nicotine or other physically addictive substances to deal with. <i>Psychological</i> addiction is completely possible, again, as stated above.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Even chocolate can by psychologicly addicting, which is usually why many refer to marijuana as a non-addictive drug.
The government as a large body may in-fact agree that letting people smoke pot isn't such a big problem. The problem lies in the fact that people tend to jump the border on legality, but when they do so, most tend to do it in very small ways.
Creating a "marijuana barrier" just might be the way they keep cocaine and heroin usage down.
In the end, I'm not an expert, and none of you are experts in drug prevention. I haven't participated in D.A.R.E. education, and I doubt any of you have either.
Always understand that changing the rules of society is like removing a stick in "Kerplunk", you don't always see all of the ramifications.
I just found it weird that amongst all this pro-marijuana stuff, BOOM - it cites a study that pounds marijuana use.
I still cant believe that with all the dangerous substances and activites that people become addicted to in this day and age, you guys want to add another one. We've pretty much decided that smoking cigarettes is stupid - and to promote a substance that is like watered down alcohol that is smoked or inhaled like a cigarette, but not physically addicting, seems strange to me. Kinda like adding another bad idea to a long list of bad ideas.
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Actually I had a D.A.R.E. class once every week in 5th grade. The only thing I can remember about it is the cop showed us his gun, and we got a pin and tote bag for completing it. I still have the tote bag, someone stole my pin shortly after, and sold it for drug money I'm sure.... <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
To the point, D.A.R.E classes don't seem to be very effective, at least not at that age.
I'm all for legalization, but before that happens I think that tobacco needs to be outlawed. I don't know enough to make an informed decision on whether or not alcohol should be banned. I've never lit up myself, but almost everyone my age that I know seme to enjoy it. Surprisingly, it is more common in the rural areas than the city (perhaps not statistically, but it is), probably because they have nothing to do in the middle of a forest.
. Okay, I see a whole lot of arguing for why.. but I'm not seeing much for why not. That in itself should be proof enough for legalization. Something I heard a little while back is that marijuana was made illegal in something like the early 1900's or so, and was so because it was in direct competition with cotton. The psychoactive effects didn't really fire the illegality, but possibly as supporting arguments. The reason people are so-called 'pot heads' that do it all the time is because it is a good feeling. It helps you relax and unwind after a long day of work school, just stress, etc. You don't go around calling people who have an alcoholic beverage almost every night an alcoholic do you? Or people that smoke a pack a day.... anything.. do you? Sure it makes you do stupid stuff, and sure you shouldn't do it while driving, working, and other such things, just like alcohol or other legal drugs.
. It <i>might</i> be habit-forming and mentally addicting, but so are many things, like chocolate as mentioned before, sex, coffee, etc. but you see no lobbying against those do you? It is in no way physically addicting, meaning you get tremors or headaches or pain when you stop doing it. You just stop doing it, and that's the end. People use the term 'gateway drug' way too loosely, and it's too broad of a term.
. With alcohol, overdosing isn't something extremely common, but it happens. With marijuana you can't overdose. Statistically speaking there are more than 100,000 deaths a year directly attributed to alcohol, and more than 350,000 directly attributed to tobacco. How many deaths directly from the smoking of marijuana? None. You can not overdose on marijuana (and I'd challenge you to try.) Again, people bring up the one joint has as many cancer-causing carcinogens as 5 cigarettes, and as stated earlier people who smoke cigarettes generally are addicted to them, and end up smoking many mroe than 5 a day. Marijuana is not addicting, and won't make you want to smoke more than 3 a day (barring special occasions.)
. You see, marijuana SHOULD be illegal, there are many more reasons for than against, the only reason it has not one a popular vote is because it is not widely accepted by the general public. Why might you ask? Propoganda. The government and other agencies tell you how horrid marijuana is, yet none really have a non-biased look on it. I'll be the first to admit that sure there are bad things about it, but the public never sees the lighter side of marijuana, and that ignorance is the reason it is not legal. No President is going to go for marijuana unless there is strong support for it among the people.
So in summation, remember,
Legalization, moderation, and regulation is what should be taken with marijuana.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually I had a D.A.R.E. class once every week in 5th grade. The only thing I can remember about it is the cop showed us his gun, and we got a pin and tote bag for completing it. I still have the tote bag, someone stole my pin shortly after, and sold it for drug money I'm sure.... <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
To the point, D.A.R.E classes don't seem to be very effective, at least not at that age. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I had D.A.R.E in 5th grade, aswell. I do remember a bit of it. I also have the shirt and hat I got from it(I still wear the hat). I think D.A.R.E would be more effective if taught in the begining of 5th and 9th grade.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm all for legalization, but before that happens I think that tobacco needs to be outlawed. I don't know enough to make an informed decision on whether or not alcohol should be banned.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First off they tried to ban alcohol already, it failed utterly. Secondly banning alcohol or tabacco would kill our economy. States depend a lot on alcohol and tabacoo taxes. Not to mention all the bars that would go out of business if alcohol was banned.
As for Marijuana being a gateway drug; i still believe it is, just not as much of a gateway as it was before (E has taken over). It is a gateway in the sense that you are already breaking the law by smoking weed, why not not try other illegal substances. I have known many people fall victim to this mentality, that said there are many more who do not.
Plus, revenues on twinkies would go through the roof! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Actaully, I had DARE training as well. It was one of the first years they'd ever done it, and it was very, very harsh. It wasn't 'awareness' education... it was parrot-brainwashing. You had to get everything worded perfectly, and not have a single conflicting view to pass. I didn't, but I lifted one of the shirts anyway. ^_^ They hadn't come out with the hats or pins yet.
Alcohol doesn't have the same effect, drinking alcohol makes you want to have some more alcohol later on in the day or in the next day. Same with smoking. Mary Jane really gives you far more pleasure than any of the other drugs which are currently legal... making it a dangerous substance.
It makes people feel so good to the point where they have the potential to ignore soceity. And thus it is banned.
While I also have not had the educational side of D.A.R.E. (I skipped 5th grade). I think that being part of the teaching side would open new doors of thinking. We're not hearing from anyone that's actually been *responsible* for teaching others what's actually wrong with drugs like pot.
I know lots of people who smoke joints, in fact where I live is one of the biggest havens for illegal activity in my area, we get raided once a week usually and when I say we I mean me too, the whole lot of us get them come round all the time (I never have anything in my room, nor do I allow people to take anything in my room, in fact the police usually bypass me and we chat in the hall's while everyone else has their room searched <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->).
I know people who are psychologically addicted to it and spend all the money they can get hold of on it, it isn't good for them. However there are even more people who do the same for Alcohol and Tobacco, marijuana is the best of the addictions (and often cheaper too!).
Those that go on to do 'harder things' aren't overly influenced by marijuana, they just have that type of personality, most of them started sniffing glue in primary school!
The illegal nature of marijuana means that only certain 'types' of people are going to try it (personality, not class) and those people will naturally gravitate to harder things just because its in their nature. I also know lots of people who smoke it 'socially' and they don't want to take it too much, they have jobs and active social lives, its a treat like chocolate, not a way of life.
Overall, its not the drug that makes people the way they are, its how they were to begin with. If they hadn't heard of marijuana then they would jump straight to other substances, if there wasn't anything illegal for them to take then they would overdose on caffeine or chocolate or simply become alcoholic. It's only marijuana's illegal nature that causes most of the problems at the moment and, as everyone has pointed out, it would actually be beneficial to society because of all its by-products.
I say legalise... we really should be in charge of the world, all in favour of a revolution?
Why, I can do that already! I must be banned...
Thanks, made me smile <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->