Thats because this is a discussion forum, not a self-help group or samaritans line.
I'm happy to talk to anyone who feels they can discuss something with me, I've been on both sides of the fence before and I know that having someone there who is willing to listen but isn't too close to any of the issues (so you can speak freely) is extremely useful. I wouldn't ask for people to submit problems to me here though, if they PM me they can have my Email address or we can pop into IRC or something but I wouldn't ask anyone to air all their problems in any of these forums including off-topic.
With the exception of Clinical Depression, people who are thinking about it are in a serious, clear and very rational state of mind. You don't hear about people killing themselves because 'Meh my life is only half crap.' It's very black or white. That being clear, if people are really being tortured day after day, there should be a way to help them. However, there isn't always, so suicide is always an option. Suicide should always be a last resort, and if the suicidal person does not consider every option, they are/were ignorant/stupid.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->However, there isn't always, so suicide is always an option. Suicide should always be a last resort, and if the suicidal person does not consider every option, they are/were ignorant/stupid. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
However, someone has to first understand what their choices are, and that isn't always as easy to actually do as it is to say.
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Jun 12 2004, 02:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Jun 12 2004, 02:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Scinet, have you considered turning to a faith for support? It may be just the thing you need. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It's in fact anything but what I need, but thanks for the suggestion. I am unable to subscribe to any other system of belief than my own, which is in short something like this: "Try to be nice to people. They have enough problems already."
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Jun 12 2004, 02:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Jun 12 2004, 02:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Scinet, have you considered turning to a faith for support? It may be just the thing you need. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> For some people it gives a sense of purpose... and that would work. However not everyone is a spiritual type. I've seen Suicidal people lose their faith, which is easy considering they place the burden of their troubles on god to bail them out or pull them through this troubled time. And I know from a first hand expirience that god doesn't do jack S#@%, so dont try to rely on him for much.
I'd recommend counseling before running to some religion to cure your problems.
Anyone who decides to terminate their life-something that cannot be refunded for another experience-I respect. I know this, because I have been in a similiar circumstance. When you hit rock bottom the only place left to go is up. I chose to go up, atlhough not fast and in great increments, it was that glimmer of hope, which was God, that proved beneficial. Yes, God doesn't talk to me nor does he take all of life's burden away from me either, but He was at least reasonable to let me live a life of my own freedom. Nothing comes close to the expense of freedom. As humans we should befriend our common kin, and in doing so, help them of their problems, which is why I give credit to people like Scinet for doing their "part." The greatest thing one could have, honestly, is a true friend.
These are some quotes that I thought were of relevance to the discussion.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees! -Emiliano Zapata
"Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened, ambition inspired, and sucess achieved." -Helen Keller
"It would not be better if things happned to men just as they wish. -Heraclitus
"Sometimes one has simply to endure a period of depression for what it may hold of illumination if one can live through it, attentive to what it exposes or demands." -May Sarton
"One must still have chaos in oneself to give birth to a dancing star. -Frederick Nietzche
"Be patient toward all that is unsolved in your heart and try to love the questions themselves. Live the questions now. Perhaps you will find them gradually, without noticing it, live along some distant day into answer. -Ratner Maria Rilke
"In depression this faith in delieverance, in ultimate restoration, is absent. The pain is unrelenting, and what makes the condition intolerable is the foreknowledge that no remedy will come - not in a day, an hour, a month, or a minute. If there is mild relief, one knows that it is only temporary; more pain will follow. It is hopelessness even more than pain that crushes the soul. So the decision-making of daily life invloves not ,as in normal affairs, shifting from one annoying situation to another less annoying - or from discomforort to relative comfort, or from boredom to activity - but moving from pain to pain. One does not abandon, even breifly, one's bed of nails, but is attatched to wherever one goes." -William Styron
"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before beginning to improve the world." -Anne Frank
"To keep our faces toward change, and behave like free spirits in the presence of fate, is strength undefeatable. -Helen Keller
<!--QuoteBegin-Trevelyan+Jun 12 2004, 05:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Trevelyan @ Jun 12 2004, 05:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Jun 12 2004, 02:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Jun 12 2004, 02:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Scinet, have you considered turning to a faith for support? It may be just the thing you need. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> For some people it gives a sense of purpose... and that would work. However not everyone is a spiritual type. I've seen Suicidal people lose their faith, which is easy considering they place the burden of their troubles on god to bail them out or pull them through this troubled time. And I know from a first hand expirience that god doesn't do jack S#@%, so dont try to rely on him for much.
I'd recommend counseling before running to some religion to cure your problems. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You, sir, are wrong.
The Lord is the only reason I am here, posting now, instead of 6 feet underground, taking angst and rejection with me to the grave. His death for me is the sole reason I chose not to destroy myself 5 years ago, and I have never looked back.
Perhaps God didn't magically make your troubles go away, but maybe you never took the time to see why He was allowing problems into your life, or to see what He had done for you already.
Zecharaiah 13:9 "And I will bring the third part through the fire, Refine them as silver is refined, And test them as gold is tested. They will call on My name, And I will answer them; I will say, 'They are My people,' And they will say, 'The LORD is my God.'"
~At times, the only way God can show us we need to change is by putting us in situations we ourselves cannot control nor cope with. The result of such a refinement is a faith in God that is stronger than steel, and that shines more brilliantly than polished gold.
More on topic: I firmly believe that all human life has intrinsic value. Regardless of the fact that a person may feel worthless and defeated, thier life still holds value, and should be protected. Even from one's self.
The Lord is the only reason I am here, posting now, instead of 6 feet underground, taking angst and rejection with me to the grave. His death for me is the sole reason I chose not to destroy myself 5 years ago, and I have never looked back. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteBegin-Trevelyan+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Trevelyan)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->For some people it gives a sense of purpose... and that would work. However not everyone is a spiritual type.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then you would be in the former group... not the latter.
Not all relate to God in the same way. Just as all are given different spiritual gifts ( 1 Cor 12) all are also given different spiritual needs, if they appear at the surface or not.
Comments
I'm happy to talk to anyone who feels they can discuss something with me, I've been on both sides of the fence before and I know that having someone there who is willing to listen but isn't too close to any of the issues (so you can speak freely) is extremely useful. I wouldn't ask for people to submit problems to me here though, if they PM me they can have my Email address or we can pop into IRC or something but I wouldn't ask anyone to air all their problems in any of these forums including off-topic.
However, someone has to first understand what their choices are, and that isn't always as easy to actually do as it is to say.
It's in fact anything but what I need, but thanks for the suggestion. I am unable to subscribe to any other system of belief than my own, which is in short something like this: "Try to be nice to people. They have enough problems already."
For some people it gives a sense of purpose... and that would work. However not everyone is a spiritual type. I've seen Suicidal people lose their faith, which is easy considering they place the burden of their troubles on god to bail them out or pull them through this troubled time. And I know from a first hand expirience that god doesn't do jack S#@%, so dont try to rely on him for much.
I'd recommend counseling before running to some religion to cure your problems.
These are some quotes that I thought were of relevance to the discussion.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!
-Emiliano Zapata
"Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened, ambition inspired, and sucess achieved."
-Helen Keller
"It would not be better if things happned to men just as they wish.
-Heraclitus
"Sometimes one has simply to endure a period of depression for what it may hold of illumination if one can live through it, attentive to what it exposes or demands."
-May Sarton
"One must still have chaos in oneself to give birth to a dancing star.
-Frederick Nietzche
"Be patient toward all that is unsolved in your heart and try to love the questions themselves. Live the questions now. Perhaps you will find them gradually, without noticing it, live along some distant day into answer.
-Ratner Maria Rilke
"In depression this faith in delieverance, in ultimate restoration, is absent. The pain is unrelenting, and what makes the condition intolerable is the foreknowledge that no remedy will come - not in a day, an hour, a month, or a minute. If there is mild relief, one knows that it is only temporary; more pain will follow. It is hopelessness even more than pain that crushes the soul. So the decision-making of daily life invloves not ,as in normal affairs, shifting from one annoying situation to another less annoying - or from discomforort to relative comfort, or from boredom to activity - but moving from pain to pain. One does not abandon, even breifly, one's bed of nails, but is attatched to wherever one goes."
-William Styron
"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before beginning to improve the world."
-Anne Frank
"To keep our faces toward change, and behave like free spirits in the presence of fate, is strength undefeatable.
-Helen Keller
Anything is possible...
For some people it gives a sense of purpose... and that would work. However not everyone is a spiritual type. I've seen Suicidal people lose their faith, which is easy considering they place the burden of their troubles on god to bail them out or pull them through this troubled time. And I know from a first hand expirience that god doesn't do jack S#@%, so dont try to rely on him for much.
I'd recommend counseling before running to some religion to cure your problems. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You, sir, are wrong.
The Lord is the only reason I am here, posting now, instead of 6 feet underground, taking angst and rejection with me to the grave. His death for me is the sole reason I chose not to destroy myself 5 years ago, and I have never looked back.
Perhaps God didn't magically make your troubles go away, but maybe you never took the time to see why He was allowing problems into your life, or to see what He had done for you already.
Zecharaiah 13:9 "And I will bring the third part through the fire, Refine them as silver is refined, And test them as gold is tested. They will call on My name, And I will answer them; I will say, 'They are My people,' And they will say, 'The LORD is my God.'"
~At times, the only way God can show us we need to change is by putting us in situations we ourselves cannot control nor cope with. The result of such a refinement is a faith in God that is stronger than steel, and that shines more brilliantly than polished gold.
More on topic: I firmly believe that all human life has intrinsic value. Regardless of the fact that a person may feel worthless and defeated, thier life still holds value, and should be protected. Even from one's self.
The Lord is the only reason I am here, posting now, instead of 6 feet underground, taking angst and rejection with me to the grave. His death for me is the sole reason I chose not to destroy myself 5 years ago, and I have never looked back. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Trevelyan+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Trevelyan)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->For some people it gives a sense of purpose... and that would work. However not everyone is a spiritual type.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then you would be in the former group... not the latter.