Fix 2 Exploits Easily

CheesyPetezaCheesyPeteza Join Date: 2002-11-24 Member: 9784Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">pancaking & bunnyhop scripts/mouse wheel</div> If you only allow players to jump once every 1/4 of a second this will eliminate pancaking lerk and all methods of bunnyhop automation.

Both methods involve isuing the jump command far faster than normal. Usually by using a simple script, scroll wheel, or even some keyboards have certain keys that just repeat continuously if held down. You'll never disable all methods by trying to block scripts as there is always the hardware methods.
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Comments

  • gophergopher Join Date: 2003-08-01 Member: 18657Members, Constellation
    edited June 2004
    I agree, aliens, especially skulks are way too powerful. And just look at the lerk, it's got even more armor and hp than the skulk for gods sake! <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • napinapi Join Date: 2003-03-01 Member: 14172Members, Constellation
    you mind explaining what you mean by "automation"?
  • EvenFlowEvenFlow Join Date: 2002-12-18 Member: 11046Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-gopher+Jun 10 2004, 02:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (gopher @ Jun 10 2004, 02:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I agree, aliens, especially skulks are way too powerful. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    If you say so, agreed however that something should be done about jump spam.
  • TrevelyanTrevelyan Join Date: 2003-03-23 Member: 14834Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Even~Flow+Jun 10 2004, 08:34 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Even~Flow @ Jun 10 2004, 08:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-gopher+Jun 10 2004, 02:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (gopher @ Jun 10 2004, 02:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I agree, aliens, especially skulks are way too powerful. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    If you say so, agreed however that something should be done about jump spam. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    good luck... vets hold onto bunny hopping like its the last floatation device left on a sinking ship, dunno why yet.
  • juicejuice Join Date: 2003-01-28 Member: 12886Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-Trevelyan+Jun 10 2004, 08:47 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Trevelyan @ Jun 10 2004, 08:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> vets hold onto bunny hopping like its the last floatation device left on a sinking ship, dunno why yet. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    bhop is not the same as jump spam... you can bhop without scripts, that is
  • comradecomrade Join Date: 2003-11-30 Member: 23774Members
    Because skulks moving in straight lines are so incredibly easy to hit and they move too slowly without it.
  • TrevelyanTrevelyan Join Date: 2003-03-23 Member: 14834Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-moomin.+Jun 10 2004, 08:53 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moomin. @ Jun 10 2004, 08:53 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Because skulks moving in straight lines are so incredibly easy to hit and they move too slowly without it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    yea... if your not a bouncing moving target in front of the marine... prepare to be instagibbed by about 15 LMG bullets lighting up your broadside.

    Of course this all changes when you get leap... which is the majik ability that turns skulks from cannon fodder to ambusher.
  • CommunistWithAGunCommunistWithAGun Local Propaganda Guy Join Date: 2003-04-30 Member: 15953Members
    edited June 2004
    <!--QuoteBegin-gopher+Jun 10 2004, 07:54 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (gopher @ Jun 10 2004, 07:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I agree, aliens, especially skulks are way too powerful. And just look at the lerk, it's got even more armor and hp than the skulk for gods sake! <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Are you off your freaking rocker? Skulks are the most fragile they have ever been. Marines easily win without any effort involving teamwork.


    Lerks can't pancake anymore. They can bank extremely fast but nowhere near as bad as pancaking was


    Yanno, I'd be willing to try a no bhop build for anyone, but it won't happen, but if somehow there was a build like that then skulks had better get a nice boost
  • CheesyPetezaCheesyPeteza Join Date: 2002-11-24 Member: 9784Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    edited June 2004
    By automation I mean you automatically jump at the right time, without having to press jump at the correct time for bunny hopping to work.

    Lerks can still fly upwards at insane speeds, the only consequence now is they lose a bit of energy, so they can't do this constantly. Only when they need to escape quickly from a fire fight, which is all you need really.

    I also agree if this change is made skulks will probably need a bit of beefing up.
  • CommunistWithAGunCommunistWithAGun Local Propaganda Guy Join Date: 2003-04-30 Member: 15953Members
    They need a bunch of beefing NOW...I can't imagine playing a scrim without bhop. Either people would be ambushing constantly like very few teams do now, or there would be 1-1 marine ties every_single_damn_game.
  • Seph_KimaraSeph_Kimara Join Date: 2003-08-10 Member: 19359Members
    edited June 2004
    I'm actually all for <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=71961' target='_blank'>automating the jumping aspect of bunnyhopping.</a> It will make it more accessable to everyone, thus making it an actual feature and not an obscure part of the game that a small percentage can do, especially when considering (whether you like it or not) it's used as an aspect when it comes to game balancing. The main skill comes from the mouse movements/strafing, anyway.

    Unless the kharaa get a pretty big buff if they lose bhop, you likely won't see any alien wins. Skulks are already fragile WITH it, without it they're just gun fodder. bunnyhopping is the only way for a gorge to outrun a marine aside from having celerity. I've run and knived countless gorges just because I CAN. That shouldn't be happening. If a gorge is going to be hopeless when it comes to one on one, it should at least be able to move faster than a marine so it has a chance to continue living. Bunnyhopping at least grants that at the moment.
  • semipsychoticsemipsychotic Join Date: 2003-07-09 Member: 18061Members
    Bunnyhopping doesn't make any sense to me, it just promotes weird-looking combat scenes. Kinda ruins the atmosphere in NS to see a skulk bouncing down the hall.

    Skulks were made to ambush. Don't even think of taking a marine head-on, that's suicide. The ceiling is your friend, wallwalking is there for a reason. Wait. Throw a movement chamber and some silence in there, and you have insta-death nicely wrapped in a skulk form if the skulk comes from behind. Maybe a sensory and some cloaking.

    A gorge? So why should it be out there on its own? That's a big problem with the Kharaa, they definitely need more coherency on the minimap. Just like in any RTS you've EVER played: a lone builder is a DEAD builder. Have a skulk hiding behind your brand-spanking-new resource tower. Or in the next room. Or have a few down the hall to parasite the clumsy humans so your escape can be cued early. Or put down sensory chambers and get scent of fear.

    Unchain the chambers, lose DMS, or die... that's the message behind Natural-selection.
  • Seph_KimaraSeph_Kimara Join Date: 2003-08-10 Member: 19359Members
    edited June 2004
    <!--QuoteBegin-semi-psychotic+Jun 10 2004, 04:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (semi-psychotic @ Jun 10 2004, 04:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Bunnyhopping doesn't make any sense to me, it just promotes weird-looking combat scenes.  Kinda ruins the atmosphere in NS to see a skulk bouncing down the hall.

    Skulks were made to ambush.  Don't even think of taking a marine head-on, that's suicide.  The ceiling is your friend, wallwalking is there for a reason.  Wait.  Throw a movement chamber and some silence in there, and you have insta-death nicely wrapped in a skulk form if the skulk comes from behind.  Maybe a sensory and some cloaking.

    A gorge?  So why should it be out there on its own?  That's a big problem with the Kharaa, they definitely need more coherency on the minimap.  Just like in any RTS you've EVER played: a lone builder is a DEAD builder.  Have a skulk hiding behind your brand-spanking-new resource tower.  Or in the next room.  Or have a few down the hall to parasite the clumsy humans so your escape can be cued early.  Or put down sensory chambers and get scent of fear.

    Unchain the chambers, lose DMS, or die... that's the message behind Natural-selection. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    In most RTS games however, the builder class doesn't cost more than the basic unit. You argument holds little water in that regard. Besides, in those games you CAN have units guarding your builders at all times. In NS, you can't afford to spare ANY people. For every gorge you have, you're an attacking unit down. For every skulk guarding the gorges, you're down another unit. So you have 3 gorges. 3 skulks defending them. effectively becoming 11v6 in a 12v12 game. Hope you made extra dinner because the marines are coming to your hive, and they're bringing their friends.

    As for your comments on skulks being made for ambush. Unless you haven't noticed, that rarely ever works any more. You NEED to assault marines because sitting around over a doorway for 5 minutes hoping someone wanders by is accomplishing nothing. Even then, it still only takes 9 bullets to kill you. Motion tracking completely negates ambushes, too. You turn slightly, you've got a large blue beacon that says shoot here. move an inch? Say hi to that beacon again.

    Bhop may look stupid, but it's a necessary evil. Unless, of couse, you want to jack base speeds to MUCH higher levels.
  • CheesyPetezaCheesyPeteza Join Date: 2002-11-24 Member: 9784Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    I wouldn't mind automatic bunny hopping being enabled. I just want a level playing field, not the current situation where some people can do it depending on what type of keyboard/mouse they have.
  • ZekZek Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited June 2004
    If you're going to nerf bunnyhopping then get rid of it entirely; don't just make it harder. As long as it's still possible, we won't be able to balance skulks for those who can't do it.

    Personally I think we should ditch bunnyhopping entirely. And yes, vets, this is coming from someone who knows how to bunnyhop. It's atmosphere-damaging, it's not described in any manual or ingame text and thus completely favors the high end players. If it were a skill that the game promoted somehow and people could learn naturally that would be one thing, but bunnyhopping isn't a skill you develop with experience; you have to learn about it from an outside source.

    Eliminate bunnyhopping(make aliens unable to jump again for a fraction of a second after they hit the ground?), then significantly increase the base skulk speed and maybe their HP. Also get rid of wallstrafing and the left-right button tapping to increase speed. There's enough skill to skulking as it is without throwing completely arbitrary methods of movement into the mix. Keeping bunnyhopping in doesn't leave a skill curve, it just leaves in the artificial advantage of those who know how to exploit the HL engine(I realize it's supported, but it's still unnatural).
  • ForlornForlorn Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2634Banned
    That's really not a bad idea Cheesy Pasta, but problems:


    - It would have to be disabled for lerks, having only one flap ever 1/4 of a second = not cool

    - You wouldn't be able to jump up several railings or boxes at once

    - You wouldn't be able to bhop up slopes, or in vents




    See, the problem with a limit on jumps is that you sometimes can jump very quickly in succcession....


    So, while this sounds like a good idea, it nerfs the game so much that a lot of the fun of fights (jumping off other players, buildings, railings, etc. etc.) would be removed.


    I think a better solution is this, CheesyPasta:


    - Make it so if you hit the jump key before you land, your player automatically preforms another jump. This is the quake system. Anyone would be able to jump quickly no matter what scripts they are using.

    Could you make a plugin for this Cheesy? If you can, PM me and maybe I can help you pimp it out and try it on several servers.
  • CheesyPetezaCheesyPeteza Join Date: 2002-11-24 Member: 9784Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    I've already made a plugin that does auto bunnyhopping for CS servers. So yes its definately possible, infact it wouldn't take less than a minute to make one for ns.

    Those problems you mentioned of not being able to hop up slopes and on top of boxes are exploits in my opinion, you couldn't do it manually. Also you don't need to flap the lerk more than 4 times a second. I'm not saying you can't do it currently, I'm just saying you don't need to.
  • ForlornForlorn Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2634Banned
    <!--QuoteBegin-CheesyPeteza+Jun 10 2004, 04:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CheesyPeteza @ Jun 10 2004, 04:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I've already made a plugin that does auto bunnyhopping for CS servers. So yes its definately possible, infact it wouldn't take less than a minute to make one for ns.

    Those problems you mentioned of not being able to hop up slopes and on top of boxes are exploits in my opinion, you couldn't do it manually. Also you don't need to flap the lerk more than 4 times a second. I'm not saying you can't do it currently, I'm just saying you don't need to. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Make the plugin quake style. Hit jump before you land, and you do another jump. That would be ideal for NS.


    Hopping up slopes and jumping on boxes is very easy and possible without any sort of script.

    Go to the CPL this summer, and I'll show you.

    Also, bhopping with only one button and no scripts is possible, but very difficult.

    And flapping a lerk more than once is nessesary to hit top speed of lerkflight.
  • CheesyPetezaCheesyPeteza Join Date: 2002-11-24 Member: 9784Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    You can hop up slopes without a script, mouse wheel, or anything else to artificially speed up jumping, simply pressing your jump keep rapidly? Hmm I would like to see that in RL. But even if u can, I don't think removing that ability would have any effect on 99.9% of NS players, I don't see a problem with removing it.

    I didn't realise you meant UT style jumping for the plugin. I don't think that would suit NS really. The plugin I made for CS allowed you to simply hold down the jump button and everytime you touched the floor it'd make you jump again.
  • ForlornForlorn Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2634Banned
    edited June 2004
    <!--QuoteBegin-CheesyPeteza+Jun 10 2004, 04:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CheesyPeteza @ Jun 10 2004, 04:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I didn't realise you meant UT style jumping for the plugin. I don't think that would suit NS really. The plugin I made for CS allowed you to simply hold down the jump button and everytime you touched the floor it'd make you jump again. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Now putting that in the game would be too much, as you would be able to bhop through:

    - Vents
    - Up and down slopes no matter what (currently bhopping down slopes and up them is pretty tough as aliens... but not with an auto jump)



    So that is too abusive.

    Again, the best solution is quake style jumping; hit jump before you land and you jump automatically upon landing. This would still require your skill to some extent, but would remove most of the timing behind it.

    EDIT: And removing timing is exactly what the mousewheel and +3jumps script do right now.
  • semipsychoticsemipsychotic Join Date: 2003-07-09 Member: 18061Members
    edited June 2004
    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In most RTS games however, the builder class doesn't cost more than the basic unit. You argument holds little water in that regard. Besides, in those games you CAN have units guarding your builders at all times. In NS, you can't afford to spare ANY people. For every gorge you have, you're an attacking unit down. For every skulk guarding the gorges, you're down another unit. So you have 3 gorges. 3 skulks defending them. effectively becoming 11v6 in a 12v12 game. Hope you made extra dinner because the marines are coming to your hive, and they're bringing their friends.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The numbers don't add up that way, however. With the coming of 3.0, it doesn't take much time at all to become a skulk again. In general, you move a good portion of the team to a hive and you start dumping some resources into putting up a hive, and it's done. If a marine discovers the operation, it doesn't take long at all to mobilize the alien team and bring the fight to the marines. The way your situation sounds, you have three gorges in three different places with three different skulks covering them... again, a problem with alien coherency vs. marine coherency.

    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As for your comments on skulks being made for ambush. Unless you haven't noticed, that rarely ever works any more. You NEED to assault marines because sitting around over a doorway for 5 minutes hoping someone wanders by is accomplishing nothing. Even then, it still only takes 9 bullets to kill you. Motion tracking completely negates ambushes, too. You turn slightly, you've got a large blue beacon that says shoot here. move an inch? Say hi to that beacon again. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    You don't just camp an area. Some of these techniques have been elevated further than most simple bunnyhopping techniqes. You round up the skulks, parasite the buggers, and catch them in close quarters. Ambushing doesn't mean simply flying from every vent and rafter, it's generally bringing the fight to where you have an advantage (an example? Acidic Solution is a better battlefield for skulks than Cargo Storage of ns_tanith). Motion tracking does negate ambushes (a tech I really never liked), BUT by then you should have higher lifeforms who will fare much better in the fray. And you hopefully also have leap, which does give you a shot at head-on combat, a much better shot at head-on than bunnyhopping will give you.
  • fanaticfanatic This post has been edited. Join Date: 2003-07-23 Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    edited June 2004
    I pretty much agree with Forlorn on this one.

    Even though bunnyjumping may seem unnatural, claiming that it ruins NS
    atmosphere is a very flawed argument as NS is a sci-fi game, and normal rules of
    physics only apply to a certain extent. Who's to say that a certain alien lifeform
    doesn't have the ability to jump several times in succession to gain speed? The
    way gazelles literally bunnyjump around when they're running for their life to get
    away from something that's hunting it would be a good example in the real world.

    However, the main point of keeping bunnyjumping as a game feature, the way I
    see it, would be the fact that it's an extremely entertaining aspect of NS gameplay.
    It adds "flavour" by giving players the possibility to to very unorthodox and unusual
    moves to best their opponent. As an effect of this, it makes spectating more
    entertaining for obvious reasons. The same goes for marines being able to jump
    off rails, up slopes, etc. Seeing players make extraordinary escapes when faced
    with overwhelming odds makes for very good entertainment. And let's not forget
    the novelty value, as it makes tedious runs to get to hot-spots on maps less
    dull as you're able to put your mind to use on finding good spots to jump off.

    I'm not saying that NS will be boring without these features, but they sure make it
    a lot more entertaining!

    As for making bunnyjumping easier to learn: I'm all for it. And the idea to make
    jumping like Quake jumping sounds very good. The fact that such a small part of
    the community is privvy to these aspects of NS gameplay is probably the biggest
    contributor to much of the dislike certain players have against players who know
    how to bunnyjump. Giving everyone the chance of learning to do this more easily
    will definately open up an entirely new aspect of gameplay for many players
    (allthough it will be sad to see it lose it's current status as a "vet skill").
  • InsomniaInsomnia Join Date: 2003-06-10 Member: 17179Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-gopher+Jun 10 2004, 07:54 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (gopher @ Jun 10 2004, 07:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I agree, aliens, especially skulks are way too powerful. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I read this. Stopped reading. And cried
  • ApocalypseApocalypse Join Date: 2003-12-23 Member: 24700Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Insomnia+Jun 10 2004, 11:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Insomnia @ Jun 10 2004, 11:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-gopher+Jun 10 2004, 07:54 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (gopher @ Jun 10 2004, 07:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I agree, aliens, especially skulks are way too powerful. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I read this. Stopped reading. And cried<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Everyone who thought he was being serious is an idiot, no offense.



    It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to test out. However, I wonder how many more people will be bhopping. People would go the same max speed, but take longer to reach that if you didn't have experience, but if someone didn't learn bhopping before, I wonder if they would now. The people that don't know about bhopping would not take advantage of this and the people that knew about it but don't like using it because they consider it an exploit wouldn't either. The only people that would learn to bhop are the people that know about bhopping and wish they could, but are opposed to using scripts/mwheel or are too lazy.
  • CheesyPetezaCheesyPeteza Join Date: 2002-11-24 Member: 9784Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    Explain in more detail how this quake jumping worked? I never really played it much.
  • KwilKwil Join Date: 2003-07-06 Member: 17963Members
    Not sure if it's possible, but all of these speed boosts; wall strafing, jiggle walking and bunny hopping, all seem to involve the same thing. Strafing.

    Isn't is possible to simply put a limit on strafe & strafe+forward speeds?
  • GunFodderGunFodder Join Date: 2004-02-15 Member: 26572Members
    edited June 2004
    It's a problem linked to the Quake1 engine that HL is built upon. I think it's near impossible to fix, as someone probably would've because it is foolish as hell.

    I'm all for limiting jumping. It would only prevent being able to jump as soon as you hit the ground. You still would be able to jump often and get to ledges and ontop of boxes. It would really help level the playing field, which is the real problem for NS pub play.

    Skulk speed would need to be buffed a bit though.
  • coriscoris Join Date: 2003-07-08 Member: 18034Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-GunFodder.+Jun 11 2004, 08:11 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (GunFodder. @ Jun 11 2004, 08:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It's a problem linked to the Quake1 engine that HL is built upon. I think it's near impossible to fix, as someone probably would've because it is foolish as hell.

    I'm all for limiting jumping. It would only prevent being able to jump as soon as you hit the ground. You still would be able to jump often and get to ledges and ontop of boxes. It would really help level the playing field, which is the real problem for NS pub play.

    Skulk speed would need to be buffed a bit though. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    It is very much possible to fix, SoylentGreen has even written a fix for it.
    A lot of people in this thread fail to see that Flayra WANTS bhoping in the game, and therefore wont remove it.

    In normal HL you cant bhop faster than 170% of your base speed, in NS however, Flayra removed that limit.
  • Jared101Jared101 Join Date: 2004-02-22 Member: 26804Members
    yeah,give rines limited jumping,but not skulks

    aliens are SUPPOSED to hop





    --------------------------------- <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo-->
    over here <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo--> ----------------------------- <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    wow
  • gophergopher Join Date: 2003-08-01 Member: 18657Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Jun 10 2004, 03:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Jun 10 2004, 03:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-gopher+Jun 10 2004, 07:54 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (gopher @ Jun 10 2004, 07:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I agree, aliens, especially skulks are way too powerful. And just look at the lerk, it's got even more armor and hp than the skulk for gods sake! <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Are you off your freaking rocker? Skulks are the most fragile they have ever been. Marines easily win without any effort involving teamwork.


    Lerks can't pancake anymore. They can bank extremely fast but nowhere near as bad as pancaking was


    Yanno, I'd be willing to try a no bhop build for anyone, but it won't happen, but if somehow there was a build like that then skulks had better get a nice boost <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I was being sarcastic kkthxbye :>
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