Well in almost every other game where a high level player steps into the low level arena and thrashes everyone, its not called "lack of skill", its called "player abuse".
And it throws off new players from sticking with the game, since they assume that said thrashings must be perfectly legit.
Its one thing to LOSE, which is a procedure where you made a mistake and learn from it, and another thing to be thrashed, which is where you get totally destroyed in a short space of time with little to no idea of what went wrong and why.
Its like spawning into a map with a spawn camper... you keep dying, you assume you're doing something wrong, then you assume you're being camped, then you believe the game blows, and you stop playing. There's no need for a high level player to join a low level pub and take pride in wiping the floor with all the players. What are they proving? Or are they compensating for shortfalls elsewhere?
IMHO its griefing, the same way high level chars taking out low level chars in RPGs is griefing, the same way a spawncamper can wipe out droves of players is griefing.
I personally get a better thrill from playing people of equivalent skill level, because its a CHALLENGE... if wiping out a bunch of newbs makes you think you've achieved something, then you should seriously consider psychiatric help.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> but making spawn camping illegal is the epitome of stupidity, and, ironically, is a hinderance to natural selection itself.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If the players or the team kill structures in hive or base, spawn camping can be tolerated. But on some servers, they have a second invincible when you spawn.
Half a second is plenty enough but i've seen up to 3 seconds, that was stupid.
But I can say that if a full team of aliens, spawn camp in combat, without attacking the cc...Its kinda lame
<!--QuoteBegin-Afr+Jun 19 2004, 12:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Afr @ Jun 19 2004, 12:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think balance is fine the way its supposed to be played
6 vs 6. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Marines are too powerful. Two equal good teams will probably both win their marine-rounds. If both team doesnt suck, that is.
<!--QuoteBegin-[QcBs]God Killer+Jun 19 2004, 02:33 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([QcBs]God Killer @ Jun 19 2004, 02:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> But I can say that if a full team of aliens, spawn camp in combat, without attacking the cc...Its kinda lame <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> IIRC aliens are usually on defense, but I can see where your coming from if they clearly outskill the rines and/or there's a huge time limit (like an hour)
but on the topic of balance, there's a lot more that you have to consider other than res income for kharaa:
- man advantage for aliens (one of the rines has to comm, depriving them a person on the field)
- 3 potential bases (hives) vs 1 (spawn/relocation)
Especially when you consider maps like NS Lost where the aliens are virtually guaranteed to rush MS and wipe out everything in it within 30 seconds to a minute.
If you have two marine-groups each heading one way one the map the skulk are likely to be busy. Two minepacks will take care of the rest.. If they get passed the mines, log off as a comm and shoot them, the skulk will probably trip on the mines in the heat of battle.
<!--QuoteBegin-[QcBs]God Killer+Jun 13 2004, 02:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([QcBs]God Killer @ Jun 13 2004, 02:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Weld the whole team and the cc or buildings <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It's funny you should say that. I've only been playing NS for a week, and mostly playing CO to work on my kill-craft.
When I'm playing marine, the first thing I do when I get the chance is to get a welder so I can at least be of some help whilst I'm trying to learn the ropes.
<!--QuoteBegin-Necrosis+Jun 18 2004, 08:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Necrosis @ Jun 18 2004, 08:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> God Killer, thats what I'm trying to say - vets acting responsibly and training up new people, instead of butchering them and mocking their poor play.
I don't understand how a person of higher skill gets a thrill out of annihilating someone clearly nowhere near their level. I've played games where the opponent has been poor and unfortunately has drawn me in a ladder, but I don't get any thrill out of destroying him. If someone can explain how kicking people when they're down is fun, please tell me.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Necrosis, 99% of vets are neither arrogant nor unwilling to teach. Go on IRC and pm any clanner and there is a very high chance they will respond and help you out... as long as you are nice. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Absolutely, I totally agree. I'm not putting the boot into vets OR beginners. There's a lot of good people out there, no question and no debate about it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> How is a vet going Fade on a pub an example of him being an ****? It's much better than the standard alien pub tactic of spamming ocs/rts everywhere, and not getting higher lifeforms until hive2 or hive3 <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
See, now here is where it starts... putting the boot into "poor" pub play. My solution would be to get on the pubs and help those players out, show them how the game can be played *better*.
To your Fade question, imho its totally unsporting for a clan level Fade to be let loose on newb marines. They stand NO chance. Lets be honest here, a clan fade can afford very little margin for error, and is practicing regularly. We're not talking about hoarding, we're talking about slaughtering the opposing team which only annoys players and teaches them nothing. There's no challenge. THAT is what personally ticks me off - players who grief pub servers for no reason.
I've played on mixed servers, I've seen people come on and hoard for fade, and I'm fine with that since most will say "hive or fade" or at the very least will say they're a good fade and actually MEAN it. I don't like fading, I prefer gorge, but I'm not a smacktard who drops OC walls at the hive and SC chambers, then laughs as the new players inevitable die in droves.
If you're a veteran, a better player, whatever, you should be passing your skill along to the new people, by showing them HOW to comm, what a good startup is, and on the alien side by dropping the right chamber for the right situation, by offering suggestions on how to break bases, etc. If you get annoyed because noone's listening, then move on to another server - don't decide "to hell with it" and then go Fade for the purpose of thrashing the marines. What happens then is that decent marine players get annoyed at the vets. The crappy alien players assume that their poor play must have been fine, since they've won. If you find yourself on a crap alien team, join the marines and thrash the aliens. Its much more constructive.
Ditto on the marines - try and comm a good victory, try and offer suggestions to the comm, but know your place. I've seen games where people have hogged the Chair and only given upgrades to their mates - that doesn't endear clans to the pubber. Likewise a lot of backchat only leads to comms getting NOWHERE because noone is following his orders. Act responsibly, try and follow their strange schemes, and next game YOU get in the chair to show them how its done.
For the pubbers, all I can say is that clanners and veterans are NOT as bad as you may think. We've all heard the horror stories but that is ONLY because people naturally enjoy spreading bad news. I've seen clanners and vets do fantastic things in games, I've seen whole teams stop so that a new comm can find his feet. I've seen ad hoc training ingame and also seen vets leading newb charges to take hives, MS, etc. Noone hears about those because we just accept them.. but we've all heard the bad press because its more fun to pass on.
If you're a pubber, accept that most clanners and vets have played more than you, and have a better grasp of the fast track to winning. For clanners, realise that noone enjoys getting destroyed just for you to be top of the scoreboard, or so you can brag to your friends that you singlehandedly raped a MS full of ammo humpers. Educate the newbs, so that in 6 months time you'll have a better challenge from skilled players - not a pile of dead servers and a community of 6 people.
Edit - again, if you want to see how bad the situation is, look at this thread. How are you going to immediately integrate "pubbers know nothing" and "you make it seem like vets are better"? Segregation then integration. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> This is the most constructive, well posted post in this thread. Well done Necrosis. IF everyone takes to time to read this NS would be a better place to play in.
<!--QuoteBegin-Necrosis+Jun 19 2004, 07:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Necrosis @ Jun 19 2004, 07:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Besides, anything gets too close you can bugzap them with Mr Welder. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Which I currently have Not ever, EVER, EVER seen a welder kill in 3.0 currently (and i Have been playing ALOT in Lunix monster server as a regular and many players have good aim, but ive never seen a welder kill still, even on a badly hurt skulk)
ive only been playing ns since march but whenever i see a newb struggling i ask him if i can help, like showing him how to comm or what the different structures do for the aliens, i could easily bet some newbs but instead i just try different stratagies, maybe switch sides and help them,or just dont try as hard.I dont see how anyone can have fun betting a newb so badly they quit a game, i want more people to join not quit.
skulking nowadays is all about how fast you can bunnyhop, being able to get to the marine before he can sink 9 into you.. it's so cheap :/ waiting to ambush doesn't work that well as most competent marines know the best ambush places and can track easy. it would be so much better if the skulk could take an extra bullet.
<!--QuoteBegin-Dayofdead+Jun 13 2004, 07:26 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dayofdead @ Jun 13 2004, 07:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ive been playing this game for 6 months and this is what i think about it: First of all it took me a whole month, before i could kill a marine as alien on a decend way in 1v1 (im talking about a co with focus). After last update focus costs 2 (much). Because a shotgun is equal to the focus (you can say that an sg costs 2, but it gives you a damagelevel aswell). Co games r quit fun cus its way better balanced then ns maps. When you play an ns map you ll notice immidiatly that every1 wants to be a marine, when i join aliens in a 24 men server, its always the same thing. Every1 plays on his own, 50% of the alien players are complete noobs, marines win 85% of the games, VERY frustrating idd !! I think i kno why no1 wants to be alien is: Its just way TOO difficult. Every ns player has played some fps games before, so when they go marine, they can kill everything in their way. But when they go alien, they always get killed.
Isnt there anything we can do about this? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> i think most of them play as marine cause its more funny also they use guns !...
<!--QuoteBegin-Necrosis+Jun 19 2004, 03:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Necrosis @ Jun 19 2004, 03:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Besides, anything gets too close you can bugzap them with Mr Welder. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> As far as I know, welder does 0 damage now.
<!--QuoteBegin-(e)kent+Jun 20 2004, 02:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ((e)kent @ Jun 20 2004, 02:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Necrosis+Jun 19 2004, 03:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Necrosis @ Jun 19 2004, 03:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Besides, anything gets too close you can bugzap them with Mr Welder. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> As far as I know, welder does 0 damage now.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> According to the trivia bot that rain was running, the welder does 4 damage. I know it does more than 0 damage, seeing as I have gotten a welder kill.
<!--QuoteBegin-crono^+Jun 19 2004, 09:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (crono^ @ Jun 19 2004, 09:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> skulking nowadays is all about how fast you can bunnyhop, being able to get to the marine before he can sink 9 into you.. it's so cheap :/ waiting to ambush doesn't work that well as most competent marines know the best ambush places and can track easy. it would be so much better if the skulk could take an extra bullet. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> ambushing works a lot better than bhopping in. period.
I agree Nadagast, but i still think that the skulks needs a HP/AP boost, or increased speed. Or both to be able to actually kill the marine they are ambushing WHEN the marine has armour 1+.
LOL, i know what you mean crono. Ive been in the lift on agora, youll all know how small that thing is, im minding my own business, not even paying attention, when an unseen skulk bites me. Before the second bite i had aimed fired and put 9 into him, gg skulk. If you cant bunnyhop life is hard. Do lookout for locational damadge, side and back of the head bites are best, unfortnetely most marines will be well away and youll have to run to catch them, this is doable, however it is vital not to strafe and do what i do which is run after the marine turning to follow him as i do so, holding strafe means that i basically spin on the spot without moving and its killed me more times than i can remember, once in combat strafe should be avoided.
<!--QuoteBegin-kolokol+Jun 20 2004, 05:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kolokol @ Jun 20 2004, 05:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> LOL, i know what you mean crono. Ive been in the lift on agora, youll all know how small that thing is, im minding my own business, not even paying attention, when an unseen skulk bites me. Before the second bite i had aimed fired and put 9 into him, gg skulk. If you cant bunnyhop life is hard. Do lookout for locational damadge, side and back of the head bites are best, unfortnetely most marines will be well away and youll have to run to catch them, this is doable, however it is vital not to strafe and do what i do which is run after the marine turning to follow him as i do so, holding strafe means that i basically spin on the spot without moving and its killed me more times than i can remember, once in combat strafe should be avoided. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Ambushing is a pain in the **** even if you know how to bunnyhop. Ive played with marines that have been KB-bugged THREE times before they killed me. Damn armour 3 + medpacks. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
In the discription of skulk they say: guerillia taktics. Wich means that a skulk should be better in a 1v1 combat while use the invironement. Walking on walls is very difficult in the middle of combat and mostly slows you down because of the little things placed on the walls by the map makers. You simply cant approach those marine without cloaking or celretiy (im talking about ns maps, where you mostly start with dc's).
Ive got 5 friends, that tried to play this game. They all got so frustrated that they played only once.... I think this frustrating gameplay costs ns alot of players. Wich is too bad, cus the game has a great concept.
<!--QuoteBegin-kolokol+Jun 20 2004, 08:52 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kolokol @ Jun 20 2004, 08:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Do lookout for locational damadge, side and back of the head bites are best, <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> um what
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Walking on walls is very difficult in the middle of combat and mostly slows you down because of the little things placed on the walls by the map makers. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Stick to the roof. Jump a lot while running at any surface you can see.
The whole point is NOT having to dodge marine fire - you should be in position WAITING for them. Engaged directly most guerilla units are easily dealt with - their strength lies in misdirection and leading the enemy down false paths.
A good example with a skulk is using parasite to open a door, then chuckling from the other side of the room. Do it right and the marines will think there's several of you, a great stalling tactic.
Running along the walls/roof is hard but it's primarily there to allow you to get from A to C without the B. IMHO its not really meant to be used in combat (much the same as in AvP and AvP2).
<!--QuoteBegin-Necrosis+Jun 22 2004, 11:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Necrosis @ Jun 22 2004, 11:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Stick to the roof. Jump a lot while running at any surface you can see.
The whole point is NOT having to dodge marine fire - you should be in position WAITING for them. Engaged directly most guerilla units are easily dealt with - their strength lies in misdirection and leading the enemy down false paths.
A good example with a skulk is using parasite to open a door, then chuckling from the other side of the room. Do it right and the marines will think there's several of you, a great stalling tactic.
Running along the walls/roof is hard but it's primarily there to allow you to get from A to C without the B. IMHO its not really meant to be used in combat (much the same as in AvP and AvP2). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Ambushing does not work in NS as good as it's supposed to be. It's just something people need to realise. How many times haven't you been shot down by a marine who is prepared for ambushes? It's just something one has to realise, skulks do NOT cut it versus marine(s) who can aim and have great experience of the game! The time for 2 bites let alone 3 bites is longer than the marine can unleach 9-13 bullets!
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> How many times haven't you been shot down by a marine who is prepared for ambushes <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In all honesty? Not an awful lot.
Again, I've got great kills from hiding in stupid and obvious places such as the huuuge vertical vent at the tunnel northeast of sewer hive in Caged. Its a STUPID place to be, its a big vert vent, but STILL marines don't check it, walk past, and I can xeno them or drop down from above for an easy two bites.
Yes, I totally agree you can't ambush from open areas, but there are hundreds of ambush opportunities if you dedicate yourself to finding all the holes to lurk in.
Maybe I'm a very skilled skulk, and you play against really bad aliens?
40% is still a good chance - besides, if you're facing armour 1 rines with no upgrades, you're on a very bad team or you're in a clan match and really shouldn't be running around on your own.
Comments
And it throws off new players from sticking with the game, since they assume that said thrashings must be perfectly legit.
Its one thing to LOSE, which is a procedure where you made a mistake and learn from it, and another thing to be thrashed, which is where you get totally destroyed in a short space of time with little to no idea of what went wrong and why.
Its like spawning into a map with a spawn camper... you keep dying, you assume you're doing something wrong, then you assume you're being camped, then you believe the game blows, and you stop playing. There's no need for a high level player to join a low level pub and take pride in wiping the floor with all the players. What are they proving? Or are they compensating for shortfalls elsewhere?
IMHO its griefing, the same way high level chars taking out low level chars in RPGs is griefing, the same way a spawncamper can wipe out droves of players is griefing.
I personally get a better thrill from playing people of equivalent skill level, because its a CHALLENGE... if wiping out a bunch of newbs makes you think you've achieved something, then you should seriously consider psychiatric help.
If the players or the team kill structures in hive or base, spawn camping can be tolerated. But on some servers, they have a second invincible when you spawn.
Half a second is plenty enough but i've seen up to 3 seconds, that was stupid.
But I can say that if a full team of aliens, spawn camp in combat, without attacking the cc...Its kinda lame
6 vs 6.
6 vs 6. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Marines are too powerful.
Two equal good teams will probably both win their marine-rounds. If both team doesnt suck, that is.
IIRC aliens are usually on defense, but I can see where your coming from if they clearly outskill the rines and/or there's a huge time limit (like an hour)
but on the topic of balance, there's a lot more that you have to consider other than res income for kharaa:
- man advantage for aliens (one of the rines has to comm, depriving them a person on the field)
- 3 potential bases (hives) vs 1 (spawn/relocation)
- who is fragging on aliens
- a bunch of others that you can try to find
If you have two marine-groups each heading one way one the map the skulk are likely to be busy. Two minepacks will take care of the rest.. If they get passed the mines, log off as a comm and shoot them, the skulk will probably trip on the mines in the heat of battle.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's funny you should say that. I've only been playing NS for a week, and mostly playing CO to work on my kill-craft.
When I'm playing marine, the first thing I do when I get the chance is to get a welder so I can at least be of some help whilst I'm trying to learn the ropes.
I don't understand how a person of higher skill gets a thrill out of annihilating someone clearly nowhere near their level. I've played games where the opponent has been poor and unfortunately has drawn me in a ladder, but I don't get any thrill out of destroying him. If someone can explain how kicking people when they're down is fun, please tell me.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Necrosis, 99% of vets are neither arrogant nor unwilling to teach. Go on IRC and pm any clanner and there is a very high chance they will respond and help you out... as long as you are nice.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Absolutely, I totally agree. I'm not putting the boot into vets OR beginners. There's a lot of good people out there, no question and no debate about it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
How is a vet going Fade on a pub an example of him being an ****? It's much better than the standard alien pub tactic of spamming ocs/rts everywhere, and not getting higher lifeforms until hive2 or hive3
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
See, now here is where it starts... putting the boot into "poor" pub play. My solution would be to get on the pubs and help those players out, show them how the game can be played *better*.
To your Fade question, imho its totally unsporting for a clan level Fade to be let loose on newb marines. They stand NO chance. Lets be honest here, a clan fade can afford very little margin for error, and is practicing regularly. We're not talking about hoarding, we're talking about slaughtering the opposing team which only annoys players and teaches them nothing. There's no challenge. THAT is what personally ticks me off - players who grief pub servers for no reason.
I've played on mixed servers, I've seen people come on and hoard for fade, and I'm fine with that since most will say "hive or fade" or at the very least will say they're a good fade and actually MEAN it. I don't like fading, I prefer gorge, but I'm not a smacktard who drops OC walls at the hive and SC chambers, then laughs as the new players inevitable die in droves.
If you're a veteran, a better player, whatever, you should be passing your skill along to the new people, by showing them HOW to comm, what a good startup is, and on the alien side by dropping the right chamber for the right situation, by offering suggestions on how to break bases, etc. If you get annoyed because noone's listening, then move on to another server - don't decide "to hell with it" and then go Fade for the purpose of thrashing the marines. What happens then is that decent marine players get annoyed at the vets. The crappy alien players assume that their poor play must have been fine, since they've won. If you find yourself on a crap alien team, join the marines and thrash the aliens. Its much more constructive.
Ditto on the marines - try and comm a good victory, try and offer suggestions to the comm, but know your place. I've seen games where people have hogged the Chair and only given upgrades to their mates - that doesn't endear clans to the pubber. Likewise a lot of backchat only leads to comms getting NOWHERE because noone is following his orders. Act responsibly, try and follow their strange schemes, and next game YOU get in the chair to show them how its done.
For the pubbers, all I can say is that clanners and veterans are NOT as bad as you may think. We've all heard the horror stories but that is ONLY because people naturally enjoy spreading bad news. I've seen clanners and vets do fantastic things in games, I've seen whole teams stop so that a new comm can find his feet. I've seen ad hoc training ingame and also seen vets leading newb charges to take hives, MS, etc. Noone hears about those because we just accept them.. but we've all heard the bad press because its more fun to pass on.
If you're a pubber, accept that most clanners and vets have played more than you, and have a better grasp of the fast track to winning. For clanners, realise that noone enjoys getting destroyed just for you to be top of the scoreboard, or so you can brag to your friends that you singlehandedly raped a MS full of ammo humpers. Educate the newbs, so that in 6 months time you'll have a better challenge from skilled players - not a pile of dead servers and a community of 6 people.
Edit - again, if you want to see how bad the situation is, look at this thread. How are you going to immediately integrate "pubbers know nothing" and "you make it seem like vets are better"? Segregation then integration. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is the most constructive, well posted post in this thread. Well done Necrosis. IF everyone takes to time to read this NS would be a better place to play in.
Besides, anything gets too close you can bugzap them with Mr Welder.
Which I currently have Not ever, EVER, EVER seen a welder kill in 3.0 currently (and i Have been playing ALOT in Lunix monster server as a regular and many players have good aim, but ive never seen a welder kill still, even on a badly hurt skulk)
Thats why u just switch to knife if anything.
waiting to ambush doesn't work that well as most competent marines know the best ambush places and can track easy. it would be so much better if the skulk could take an extra bullet.
First of all it took me a whole month, before i could kill a marine as alien on a decend way in 1v1 (im talking about a co with focus). After last update focus costs 2 (much). Because a shotgun is equal to the focus (you can say that an sg costs 2, but it gives you a damagelevel aswell). Co games r quit fun cus its way better balanced then ns maps.
When you play an ns map you ll notice immidiatly that every1 wants to be a marine, when i join aliens in a 24 men server, its always the same thing. Every1 plays on his own, 50% of the alien players are complete noobs, marines win 85% of the games, VERY frustrating idd !! I think i kno why no1 wants to be alien is: Its just way TOO difficult. Every ns player has played some fps games before, so when they go marine, they can kill everything in their way. But when they go alien, they always get killed.
Isnt there anything we can do about this? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
i think most of them play as marine cause its more funny also they use guns !...
As far as I know, welder does 0 damage now.
As far as I know, welder does 0 damage now.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
According to the trivia bot that rain was running, the welder does 4 damage. I know it does more than 0 damage, seeing as I have gotten a welder kill.
waiting to ambush doesn't work that well as most competent marines know the best ambush places and can track easy. it would be so much better if the skulk could take an extra bullet. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
ambushing works a lot better than bhopping in. period.
Ambushing is a pain in the **** even if you know how to bunnyhop. Ive played with marines that have been KB-bugged THREE times before they killed me. Damn armour 3 + medpacks. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
You simply cant approach those marine without cloaking or celretiy (im talking about ns maps, where you mostly start with dc's).
Ive got 5 friends, that tried to play this game. They all got so frustrated that they played only once.... I think this frustrating gameplay costs ns alot of players. Wich is too bad, cus the game has a great concept.
um what
Walking on walls is very difficult in the middle of combat and mostly slows you down because of the little things placed on the walls by the map makers.
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Stick to the roof. Jump a lot while running at any surface you can see.
The whole point is NOT having to dodge marine fire - you should be in position WAITING for them. Engaged directly most guerilla units are easily dealt with - their strength lies in misdirection and leading the enemy down false paths.
A good example with a skulk is using parasite to open a door, then chuckling from the other side of the room. Do it right and the marines will think there's several of you, a great stalling tactic.
Running along the walls/roof is hard but it's primarily there to allow you to get from A to C without the B. IMHO its not really meant to be used in combat (much the same as in AvP and AvP2).
The whole point is NOT having to dodge marine fire - you should be in position WAITING for them. Engaged directly most guerilla units are easily dealt with - their strength lies in misdirection and leading the enemy down false paths.
A good example with a skulk is using parasite to open a door, then chuckling from the other side of the room. Do it right and the marines will think there's several of you, a great stalling tactic.
Running along the walls/roof is hard but it's primarily there to allow you to get from A to C without the B. IMHO its not really meant to be used in combat (much the same as in AvP and AvP2). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ambushing does not work in NS as good as it's supposed to be. It's just something people need to realise. How many times haven't you been shot down by a marine who is prepared for ambushes? It's just something one has to realise, skulks do NOT cut it versus marine(s) who can aim and have great experience of the game! The time for 2 bites let alone 3 bites is longer than the marine can unleach 9-13 bullets!
How many times haven't you been shot down by a marine who is prepared for ambushes
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In all honesty? Not an awful lot.
Again, I've got great kills from hiding in stupid and obvious places such as the huuuge vertical vent at the tunnel northeast of sewer hive in Caged. Its a STUPID place to be, its a big vert vent, but STILL marines don't check it, walk past, and I can xeno them or drop down from above for an easy two bites.
Yes, I totally agree you can't ambush from open areas, but there are hundreds of ambush opportunities if you dedicate yourself to finding all the holes to lurk in.
The only time I die as a marine by ambushes are if the skulk is VERY skilled or if I screw up. Beeing a marine is just so patheticly easy.
40% is still a good chance - besides, if you're facing armour 1 rines with no upgrades, you're on a very bad team or you're in a clan match and really shouldn't be running around on your own.