<!--QuoteBegin-Avenger-X+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Avenger-X)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> it only shows me how much the chambers SHOULD be chained down, your all wrong, the games fine so don't screw it up when were so dang close to having it down right <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
bwhahahahahahahahhahh
omg yeah, cos 3.0beta4a is liek, teh most balanced vursjon of NS evur.
In every single game I play where marines have a decent-to good commander, and ditto marines, aliens get screwed over, regardless of their skill. I think the Atlantic cup results back up my opinion.
<!--QuoteBegin-Zek+Jun 26 2004, 07:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zek @ Jun 26 2004, 07:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Avenger, it's obvious that you aren't capable of backing up your completely unfounded opinions so there's no point in debating it with you.
Recoup, we've been over this. Have you tried playing with unchained chambers yet? To be blunt, people who play with unchained chambers every day know more about what effect this actually has on the game than someone who has never tried it. I can tell you from my experiences with the plugin that this does not significantly throw off the balance of the game; have you personally seen that it does? Maybe you should be taking stats from the servers that are using the plugin instead since that's really what this is about. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> And as I've said before, I'm going to be taking those particular wins and losses, as I have stated twice, once again. Now I have said it three times.
<!--QuoteBegin-k1ndred+Jun 26 2004, 07:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (k1ndred @ Jun 26 2004, 07:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> the chambers are chained to the hives for a good reason, open up your combat-minds of fun servers and think for a little moment about why chambers are chained to the hives?
To add a level of strategy to alien gameplay, so the teamplay is higly required and coordination. Without it you can't get to 2 hive and can't have any second upgrade... That's the beauty of chained chambers. If you miss a chamber, or get overwhelmed with the chamber the team choosed, you must battle for a second hive to fix your mistake. his thus forces the team to play accordingly to the chambers that were made, so teamplay required again.
Want unchained chambers? go combat! become a superskulk <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> AMEN BROTHER!!!!!!
Are you going to actually argue your own point or just keep trolling?
<!--QuoteBegin-k1ndred+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (k1ndred)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> the chambers are chained to the hives for a good reason, open up your combat-minds of fun servers and think for a little moment about why chambers are chained to the hives?
To add a level of strategy to alien gameplay, so the teamplay is higly required and coordination. Without it you can't get to 2 hive and can't have any second upgrade... That's the beauty of chained chambers. If you miss a chamber, or get overwhelmed with the chamber the team choosed, you must battle for a second hive to fix your mistake. his thus forces the team to play accordingly to the chambers that were made, so teamplay required again.
Want unchained chambers? go combat! become a superskulk<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> First of all, your reference to superskulks and combat make it obvious that you don't know what the idea even is. You can't become a superskulk with unchained chambers; you're still limited to one upgrade per chamber type and one upgrade per hive. All it does is increased your choices, not the actual power of the aliens.
The only "strategy" that chained chambers has ever added to the game is the strategy of deciding what the build order that everyone will use in every game is going to be. That phase of the strategy was completed in 1.04; it's DMS, and it has been that way ever since. Now deciding who drops the chambers that were predetermined to go with each hive is the only strategy associated with upgrades. Chained chambers have completely crippled alien strategy. Alien gameplay has been more or less completely linear since NS was released, and it's about time something be done about that.
What little teamwork is required to manage chained chambers("Hey, can you drop Ds?" "Okay") is required tenfold to make proper use of unchained chambers. No longer is it a silent agreement between every NS player that they will only do DMS; now they actually do have to work together to decide how to use the chambers available to them. That's teamwork. Simply learning the build order and following it every time with minimal communication is not.
So what is the good reason for chained chambers? I'd really like to hear it.
And with all this talk about the balance implications of this idea, I think I should emphasize again that balance is not the real purpose behind unchained chambers. Even if you could prove to me that it would ruin balance(<i>which it doesn't</i>), I would still want it to go in. Other changes could be made to the game to compensate for it, and they would only really have to be small tweaks. There's no risk of absolutely ruining the so-called balance that we've established so far. And even if the end result of this change is that the game is marginally less balanced than it would be otherwise, it would be worth it. As far as I'm concerned, fun is more important than impeccable balance(within reason, of course) and right now aliens are not fun. It's the same old routine every time and the "strategy" that you love so much has become stale. If the chamber choices were completely balanced then chained chambers wouldn't be so bad, but they obviously aren't and that's why DMS reigns supreme. This fear of change that you guys are demonstrating is killing the fun of the alien team.
Chambers need to be unchained to break the mechanical D/M/S progression going on, and not one of your reasons against it has been any good, and you ignore anyone else's points, regurgitating the same reply of "it will ruin balance" without saying<b> how</b> i mean sure aliens would have whatever 1 upgrade they wanted at 1 hive, but all 9 chambers = 90 res, you could have built 2 hives for that.
if ns 3.0b4a (the current build) was so "balanced" as you naysayers are whining, then flayra and the ns dev team might as well just publish it as a buyable game on the market, since it is so "balanced" and no further work will be needed to improve the game.
face it. NS is not gonna be balanced, atleast in the near future. "It unbalances the game" is not a valid argument in the face of the number of points that has been pointed out by zek and the many other people in favor of unchaining the chambers.
if only we could get some divine intervention (sic) [ie. devs giving their word and viewpoint on this idea of unchaining the chambers] , then this incessant whining from the trolls and the people who are "oh-so-afraid that the aliens will become overpowered from the unchaining" would finally cease. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Comments
bwhahahahahahahahhahh
omg yeah, cos 3.0beta4a is liek, teh most balanced vursjon of NS evur.
In every single game I play where marines have a decent-to good commander, and ditto marines, aliens get screwed over, regardless of their skill. I think the Atlantic cup results back up my opinion.
Recoup, we've been over this. Have you tried playing with unchained chambers yet? To be blunt, people who play with unchained chambers every day know more about what effect this actually has on the game than someone who has never tried it. I can tell you from my experiences with the plugin that this does not significantly throw off the balance of the game; have you personally seen that it does? Maybe you should be taking stats from the servers that are using the plugin instead since that's really what this is about. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
And as I've said before, I'm going to be taking those particular wins and losses, as I have stated twice, once again. Now I have said it three times.
To add a level of strategy to alien gameplay, so the teamplay is higly required and coordination. Without it you can't get to 2 hive and can't have any second upgrade... That's the beauty of chained chambers. If you miss a chamber, or get overwhelmed with the chamber the team choosed, you must battle for a second hive to fix your mistake. his thus forces the team to play accordingly to the chambers that were made, so teamplay required again.
Want unchained chambers? go combat! become a superskulk <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
AMEN BROTHER!!!!!!
this young fellow has got the right idea
<!--QuoteBegin-k1ndred+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (k1ndred)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> the chambers are chained to the hives for a good reason, open up your combat-minds of fun servers and think for a little moment about why chambers are chained to the hives?
To add a level of strategy to alien gameplay, so the teamplay is higly required and coordination. Without it you can't get to 2 hive and can't have any second upgrade... That's the beauty of chained chambers. If you miss a chamber, or get overwhelmed with the chamber the team choosed, you must battle for a second hive to fix your mistake. his thus forces the team to play accordingly to the chambers that were made, so teamplay required again.
Want unchained chambers? go combat! become a superskulk<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First of all, your reference to superskulks and combat make it obvious that you don't know what the idea even is. You can't become a superskulk with unchained chambers; you're still limited to one upgrade per chamber type and one upgrade per hive. All it does is increased your choices, not the actual power of the aliens.
The only "strategy" that chained chambers has ever added to the game is the strategy of deciding what the build order that everyone will use in every game is going to be. That phase of the strategy was completed in 1.04; it's DMS, and it has been that way ever since. Now deciding who drops the chambers that were predetermined to go with each hive is the only strategy associated with upgrades. Chained chambers have completely crippled alien strategy. Alien gameplay has been more or less completely linear since NS was released, and it's about time something be done about that.
What little teamwork is required to manage chained chambers("Hey, can you drop Ds?" "Okay") is required tenfold to make proper use of unchained chambers. No longer is it a silent agreement between every NS player that they will only do DMS; now they actually do have to work together to decide how to use the chambers available to them. That's teamwork. Simply learning the build order and following it every time with minimal communication is not.
So what is the good reason for chained chambers? I'd really like to hear it.
And with all this talk about the balance implications of this idea, I think I should emphasize again that balance is not the real purpose behind unchained chambers. Even if you could prove to me that it would ruin balance(<i>which it doesn't</i>), I would still want it to go in. Other changes could be made to the game to compensate for it, and they would only really have to be small tweaks. There's no risk of absolutely ruining the so-called balance that we've established so far. And even if the end result of this change is that the game is marginally less balanced than it would be otherwise, it would be worth it. As far as I'm concerned, fun is more important than impeccable balance(within reason, of course) and right now aliens are not fun. It's the same old routine every time and the "strategy" that you love so much has become stale. If the chamber choices were completely balanced then chained chambers wouldn't be so bad, but they obviously aren't and that's why DMS reigns supreme. This fear of change that you guys are demonstrating is killing the fun of the alien team.
face it. NS is not gonna be balanced, atleast in the near future. "It unbalances the game" is not a valid argument in the face of the number of points that has been pointed out by zek and the many other people in favor of unchaining the chambers.
if only we could get some divine intervention (sic) [ie. devs giving their word and viewpoint on this idea of unchaining the chambers] , then this incessant whining from the trolls and the people who are "oh-so-afraid that the aliens will become overpowered from the unchaining" would finally cease. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Avenger, i already told you to use the existing threads. My patience is wearing thin.