<!--QuoteBegin-Zek+Jul 3 2004, 07:51 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zek @ Jul 3 2004, 07:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The problem with making OCs individually strong is that it doesn't address the cost issues of putting even one of them down in the early game. Regardless of how strong they are, one OC does little to defend a node seeing as they always leave a blind spot, and at the cost of 10 res isn't nearly worth it early on. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't think it's an issue. If a marine starts knifing a RT , someone should attempt to protect it anyway. To dodge the skulk's attacks , the said marine will have to leave the blind spot and eat spikes.
I completly agree. The OC's need a reduction in resouces.
I think that OC's can only work in groups. Upgrade chambers are 10 res.. OC's arent really that crucial to the game in the sense that it will benefit the whole team. OC's are purely there to defend. And if it costs 50 / 70 res to defend one area and get easily sieged/shot round corners. Isn't that slightly unfair?
I especially liked the 500Hp 500 armor idea... It would mean that shooting at OCs with a heal spraying gorge would actually do something (wear down the OC's armor) and they get tougher (I especially like that).
You could also give OCs a natural regen rate... to make a single marine shooting the OC from around a corner take more time to compensate for the 10 res they destroyed.
I really didn't create the thread with improving the OC in mind... I thought mostly the problem was that Ocs were to expensive. you can make it hard on marines shooting around corners with good OC placement... Just affording enough to do so is the problem.
Please note the rambo getting through OCs will always be a problem simply because of medpacks... you can spam a single rine all the way into a alien hive no matter WHAT OCs you have along the way (but it costs em a good chunk of res to do so at least).
1: OCs are not aloners, you don't let a OC just stand in a corner and die out, give it love, and especially heal spray.
2: Put them in well travelled alien and marine routes, as south loop, then your skulks while eventually come there and can easily get some kills and maybe afford that hive or fade you've begged for.
3: OCs cost represents teamwork, if the cost would be lowered they would be unbalanced, the NS-team then forces both aliens and marines to use team-work(rarely seen that as alien)
What is all this crap about healspraying the OCs. The gorge is one of the slowest units in the game and takes quite a while to get across maps, and if you aren't going all over the map capping nodes, you aren't doing your team any good. You simply can't keep up with the rambos. Hopefully with unchained chambers we can have our defense regeneration to heal OCs without limiting to DC/MC/SC.
Ocs do indeed suck right now but maybe letting people gorge for free would be a better alteranate, right now just to drop one oc is 20 res that can be killed with a 10 res tool (sg) but if u made gorge free (maybe first minute) then that would be a 10 res oc against a 10 res sg. but a free gorge would make gorging itself less frustrating.
<!--QuoteBegin-Ivul+Jul 3 2004, 05:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ivul @ Jul 3 2004, 05:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 3: OCs cost represents teamwork, if the cost would be lowered they would be unbalanced <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> <b>HOW</b>
Also realise that with changes to the alien side, marine changes are sure to happen <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->the NS-team then forces both aliens and marines to use team-work(rarely seen that as alien)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lol... how reversed that quote is. Marines can afford to have a rambo go off... a single marine will dominate 2-3 skulks. Aliens CANT, the situation has reversed... the aliens need MORE teamwork then marines.
Do you remember hearing the following things on this forum?
- The onos isn't weak... get a lerk to umbra you
- The skulk isn't weak... ambush from Different directions to get those marines camping long halls
- <i> The OC isn't weak... get a skulk and a gorge to hang around it!</i>
In fact... The fade is the only alien that doesn't REQUIRE teamwork to be effective... which is also why many consider it overpowered.
<!--QuoteBegin-Hobojoe+Jul 3 2004, 08:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hobojoe @ Jul 3 2004, 08:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> uh hello, if you let a marine sneak towards a hive, EVEN WITH OCS FIRING AT HIM, and let him build a phasegate you deserve that to happen. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Thats the worst comment i have ever heard from a fellow NS player (no offense). If the marine is SNEAKING how are we supposed to FIND him SNEAKING, how are we supposed to know if a marine is in fact SNEAKING? Ive seen comms drop 2 phasegates and recycle 1 to draw OC fire and on top of that, "Sneakers" or Ninjas as they are refered to Usually SNEAK while marines are rushing another hive, to set up that phasegate to pressure aliens even more. Aliens arent supposed to "keep track of every single marine" you know, they have more things to worry about then making sure they know where every single marine is. THATS what OCS should be there for.
As far as that comment went on "OC spammage cause of 5 res" deal Then why not limit the "OC's per Area down to 6, or 5? instead of 8. Marines dont have a limit on how many turrets to place so I can see a problem with spammage there. But were not talking about Marines here. its all based on OCS. OCS currently are a waste early and mid game, you see them being used in spams when aliens are blocking off the marine exits at hive 3 for extra defense.
Did u also know 1 GL can easily wreck a "spammed" 5-6 OCS? and believe this, sometimes with out even being Hurt!.
Only bile bomb and Onos are the anti- Turret things aliens have, marines have, Hand grenades, GL's, seiges, and blind spot sniping. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
OC's should kill rines in one hit and be hitscan and fire through walls with 3000 health and regen rate at 40 a second because they're not turrets like the marines which kill in 9 hits to a skulk but they fire bullets so they must be very deadly because turrets omgrox and oc's omgsux and turretfarms are often used in clanplay amongst the better players but you never see ocs ever because they are as I stated earlier omgsux
If anything is actually done to the OC, it should cost 5 res at 550 HP. That's really a nice fix to make them a cheap slowdown/hinderince that won't die in 1 lmg clip, can be "massed" if you have the res and really want to waste it, yet arn't blatantly unfair. Currently the OC is actually very effective when not just thrown in some random hall/right next to "NODE A" as protection. Aliens are the best protection your node can get, and a hallway is a stupid place to put a turret anyways. Do you see rine turrets in pub games thrown in random halls/around every node to protect? Well, games that are won anyways. The reason people complain about the effeciency of marine turrets is probably because they're not thrown in stupid places as often as OC's are.
In one of the betas, aliens has limitless resources after about 2:00 into the game.
There were OCS in literally EVERY part of the map. Marines still stood a frighteningly good chance (we let them keep 2-3 res nozzles) unless the alien team started using a lot of onos. Alien defenses just aren't that good.
<!--QuoteBegin-NGE+Jul 3 2004, 10:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NGE @ Jul 3 2004, 10:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> OC's should kill rines in one hit and be hitscan and fire through walls with 3000 health and regen rate at 40 a second because they're not turrets like the marines which kill in 9 hits to a skulk but they fire bullets so they must be very deadly because turrets omgrox and oc's omgsux and turretfarms are often used in clanplay amongst the better players but you never see ocs ever because they are as I stated earlier omgsux <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Unnessesary.
<!--QuoteBegin- NGE+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ( NGE)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If anything is actually done to the OC, it should cost 5 res at 550 HP. That's really a nice fix to make them a cheap slowdown/hinderince that won't die in 1 lmg clip, can be "massed" if you have the res and really want to waste it, yet arn't blatantly unfair. Currently the OC is actually very effective when not just thrown in some random hall/right next to "NODE A" as protection. Aliens are the best protection your node can get, and a hallway is a stupid place to put a turret anyways. Do you see rine turrets in pub games thrown in random halls/around every node to protect? Well, games that are won anyways. The reason people complain about the effeciency of marine turrets is probably because they're not thrown in stupid places as often as OC's are.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now we're talking! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Thats a great idea... and fits in with the "infestation" theme of the alien team. Quantity over quality. I'd be even better if it was 400 Hit points and 100-200 armor instead of just 550 hp... but hey, thats for the playtesters to figure out. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Edit: Damage would have to be reduced a tad... but i think with the current faults it shouldn't be cut down to much.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If anything is actually done to the OC, it should cost 5 res at 550 HP. That's really a nice fix to make them a cheap slowdown/hinderince that won't die in 1 lmg clip, can be "massed" if you have the res and really want to waste it, yet arn't blatantly unfair.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was just about to suggest this. It makes OC's equally as effective in most situations but even easier for marines to blast though - however, since the OC's are cheaper, their use doesn't cripple the alien's chances at expansion nearly as much as they do now.
Perhaps the oc could be made to have ~4000 hp and go back to its unbuilt state when it reaches about 2/3 it's total health. Then when it rebuilds itself it would go active again. This would make them just as easy to pass without making them worthless because they would grow back.
OC should cost like 6 res and gorging should cost 5 res at most. Theres no other changes needed in my opinion <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Offensive Chamber - 5 Resources. Health - 300 Armor - 150 Rate of Fire - Moderately Slow Damage - 10
This would encourage building Offensive Chambers in GROUPS like they are supposed to be build.
The Health and Armor closely match the fades, and the damage is fair if you actually group the offensive chambers together. 4-5 of these could slow down the hinderance of a group of marines, even with upgrades.
Also on the hive sight, you should mark when an offensive chamber is firing. That way you KNOW when the rambo marine runs through field of offensive chambers to build that phase gate. So even setting up one offensive chamber in a random spot could help the alien menece.
My personal addition would be to drastically modify the visual size and its hitbox to be somewhat more akin to a marine turret. Its immense size is one of its biggest shortcomings as it allows for those blind spots that get them killed in a matter of 9 seconds.
Another possibility would be to drastically reduce the effectiveness of lmg bullets on structures. This would simply mean that more res, time, or manpower would have to be present to "overcome" the static defences.
One thing that I would note is that the only real use needed for the OC is to defend resource nodules and to AID in the defences in hives. I say "aid" in hive defence to say that players SHOULD be there defending their own hives as they really are the best defence that can be offered in the game. However, when I say defending resources I mean offering a quasi-equivalent effect to the marines' electocuted RT effect. Ideally one or two OC's could effectively defend against 2-4 marines with lmgs... even fully upgraded. This leads me to believe that OC's should end up incredibly overpowered and cost a bunch or electrocution should be removed from RT's. Removal of electrocution should accompany the ability for RT's to support a small turret grid (4 turrets max) and then have to spend the resources on turrets which can be destroyed and/or circumvented much like OC's. But now I'm getting rediculously off-topic (maybe not)... that and dinner's ready.... mmmmmmmmmmm foooooood!!!
One suggestion that seems to keep coming up is giving an OC armour, which I think should be implemented so OC's can evolve with the rest of the aliens as marines should by two hives have at least some weapon ups.
I know that OCs are weak and expensive, but why not make their spikes parasite as well as damage marines. This would reduce rambo effectiveness and slightly increase the OCs effectiveness.
Off topic:
Shouldn't parasited marines be on the map as a blip much like aliens are when the marines have motion tracking?
<!--QuoteBegin-SaltzBad+Jul 5 2004, 05:37 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SaltzBad @ Jul 5 2004, 05:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Hobojoe+Jul 4 2004, 12:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hobojoe @ Jul 4 2004, 12:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Trevelyan+Jul 3 2004, 11:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Trevelyan @ Jul 3 2004, 11:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Unnessesary. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sarcasm. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Which is probably what the comment was directed at. Unnecessary verbal diarrhea and disguising a lack of counter-arguments as sarcasm. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Simply summing up some quite a few of the posts, then showing them that one can actually offer idea's in contrast
About the idea for making Hive sight show when a OC is fireing...
A CC in the middle of some OCs makes for a constant annoyance for about 5 minutes. Now is that a tactical move (distracting aliens) or an annoying exploit (OCs firing at the CC and not marines).
Perfectly fair. You knew when you placed the OC it was going to shoot the nearest target - the same way sitting around a corner to shoot it is not an exploit. However, that doesn't mean removing that from the game by means of no-clip unbuilt structures wouldn't be a good idea.
<!--QuoteBegin-Patrick The Super Skulk+Jul 4 2004, 10:40 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Patrick The Super Skulk @ Jul 4 2004, 10:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> How about this,
Offensive Chamber - 5 Resources. Health - 300 Armor - 150 Rate of Fire - Moderately Slow Damage - 10
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, health shouldnt be lowered that much... If there is for example 8 oc:s in group then only it needs is GL and even only 1 SG guy could take that wall down...
I think competitively you're always going to find static defenses lacking, just because it's better to err on the side of them being less useful than more useful.
As far as pubs go, they're fun and they do serve a useful purpose.
Firstly, a gorge, a three or four OCs, and a DC or two can hold down a choke point for a long time unless the comm puts some serious res into taking it back (chances are, you'll even out in RFK and time wasted for what you put into it, at least).
Secondly, they provide valuable intelligence. If you put one in a long hallway leading to a hive, double res, or something you have an early warning system that will either force the comm to medspam (assuming the marines have the sense not to shoot at it) or alert you to marine presence. Either way, you win.
Finally, they take time to get around. Just this inherent waste of time can be worth it, especially considering it's something for a less skilled player to be doing when hive 2 is already on the way and there's no real uncontested RTs to be captured, as opposed to going fade or lerk and wasting the res.
actually, thanks to hivesight working in only a small range, you probably won't get any warning other then "structure under attack". Of course, you won't be able to see WHERE there's a structure under attack, and it'll stop soon enough so you'll figure either the marine left the area or killed whatever it was you were hoping to defend. Hivesight sucks right now.
it would be better to lower the cost. because building 2 or 3 ocs is enough but for the same cost, you can go lerk, which will hold of marines very well, and your mobile. or wait a little longer, and go fade, which will hold off alot of marines and be mobile
OC must cost less :/ If u compare OC:s to hive or fades u can see that the result isnt nice...
You can build 4 OC:s to defend hive or RT or go to fade or build a hive. I cant understand anyone who prefer to make those 4 oc:s instead of doing hive or going to fade...
Hive is a worth of 10oc:s at least... OC:s would be also pretty much better if you could plant them on the walls or roofs. Oc should be 4 or 5 res and no stats changed... This would also increase marine teamwork cause they couldnt go alone through 4 oc:s without comm giving meds. Or make the OC:s price to 6 or 8 and make so that It'll also parasite when it hit at marine so it would have better use. Or maybe put gorge cost 2 res as someone already told and oc could cost 6 or 8 res. It costs too many res for aliens to build RT:s or OC:s at now. Jus putting gorge to cost less could help <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The flipside is that you can build 2 right off the bat in a regular game. And a 3-4 resource nerf would make OCs viable, and makes people who like perma-gorging (like me) like it even more.
Comments
I don't think it's an issue. If a marine starts knifing a RT , someone should attempt to protect it anyway. To dodge the skulk's attacks , the said marine will have to leave the blind spot and eat spikes.
And they need to be made hitscan weapons so they can't be dodged.
Leave the HP and RoF the same, and Robert is your Mothers Brother.
I think that OC's can only work in groups. Upgrade chambers are 10 res.. OC's arent really that crucial to the game in the sense that it will benefit the whole team. OC's are purely there to defend. And if it costs 50 / 70 res to defend one area and get easily sieged/shot round corners. Isn't that slightly unfair?
I especially liked the 500Hp 500 armor idea... It would mean that shooting at OCs with a heal spraying gorge would actually do something (wear down the OC's armor) and they get tougher (I especially like that).
You could also give OCs a natural regen rate... to make a single marine shooting the OC from around a corner take more time to compensate for the 10 res they destroyed.
I really didn't create the thread with improving the OC in mind... I thought mostly the problem was that Ocs were to expensive. you can make it hard on marines shooting around corners with good OC placement... Just affording enough to do so is the problem.
Please note the rambo getting through OCs will always be a problem simply because of medpacks... you can spam a single rine all the way into a alien hive no matter WHAT OCs you have along the way (but it costs em a good chunk of res to do so at least).
1: OCs are not aloners, you don't let a OC just stand in a corner and die out, give it love, and especially heal spray.
2: Put them in well travelled alien and marine routes, as south loop, then your skulks while eventually come there and can easily get some kills and maybe afford that hive or fade you've begged for.
3: OCs cost represents teamwork, if the cost would be lowered they would be unbalanced, the NS-team then forces both aliens and marines to use team-work(rarely seen that as alien)
<b>HOW</b>
Also realise that with changes to the alien side, marine changes are sure to happen <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->the NS-team then forces both aliens and marines to use team-work(rarely seen that as alien)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lol... how reversed that quote is. Marines can afford to have a rambo go off... a single marine will dominate 2-3 skulks. Aliens CANT, the situation has reversed... the aliens need MORE teamwork then marines.
Do you remember hearing the following things on this forum?
- The onos isn't weak... get a lerk to umbra you
- The skulk isn't weak... ambush from Different directions to get those marines camping long halls
- <i> The OC isn't weak... get a skulk and a gorge to hang around it!</i>
In fact... The fade is the only alien that doesn't REQUIRE teamwork to be effective... which is also why many consider it overpowered.
Thats the worst comment i have ever heard from a fellow NS player (no offense). If the marine is SNEAKING how are we supposed to FIND him SNEAKING, how are we supposed to know if a marine is in fact SNEAKING? Ive seen comms drop 2 phasegates and recycle 1 to draw OC fire and on top of that, "Sneakers" or Ninjas as they are refered to Usually SNEAK while marines are rushing another hive, to set up that phasegate to pressure aliens even more. Aliens arent supposed to "keep track of every single marine" you know, they have more things to worry about then making sure they know where every single marine is. THATS what OCS should be there for.
As far as that comment went on "OC spammage cause of 5 res" deal Then why not limit the "OC's per Area down to 6, or 5? instead of 8. Marines dont have a limit on how many turrets to place so I can see a problem with spammage there. But were not talking about Marines here. its all based on OCS. OCS currently are a waste early and mid game, you see them being used in spams when aliens are blocking off the marine exits at hive 3 for extra defense.
Did u also know 1 GL can easily wreck a "spammed" 5-6 OCS? and believe this, sometimes with out even being Hurt!.
Only bile bomb and Onos are the anti- Turret things aliens have, marines have, Hand grenades, GL's, seiges, and blind spot sniping. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If anything is actually done to the OC, it should cost 5 res at 550 HP. That's really a nice fix to make them a cheap slowdown/hinderince that won't die in 1 lmg clip, can be "massed" if you have the res and really want to waste it, yet arn't blatantly unfair. Currently the OC is actually very effective when not just thrown in some random hall/right next to "NODE A" as protection. Aliens are the best protection your node can get, and a hallway is a stupid place to put a turret anyways. Do you see rine turrets in pub games thrown in random halls/around every node to protect? Well, games that are won anyways. The reason people complain about the effeciency of marine turrets is probably because they're not thrown in stupid places as often as OC's are.
There were OCS in literally EVERY part of the map. Marines still stood a frighteningly good chance (we let them keep 2-3 res nozzles) unless the alien team started using a lot of onos. Alien defenses just aren't that good.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unnessesary.
<!--QuoteBegin- NGE+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ( NGE)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
If anything is actually done to the OC, it should cost 5 res at 550 HP. That's really a nice fix to make them a cheap slowdown/hinderince that won't die in 1 lmg clip, can be "massed" if you have the res and really want to waste it, yet arn't blatantly unfair. Currently the OC is actually very effective when not just thrown in some random hall/right next to "NODE A" as protection. Aliens are the best protection your node can get, and a hallway is a stupid place to put a turret anyways. Do you see rine turrets in pub games thrown in random halls/around every node to protect? Well, games that are won anyways. The reason people complain about the effeciency of marine turrets is probably because they're not thrown in stupid places as often as OC's are.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now we're talking! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Thats a great idea... and fits in with the "infestation" theme of the alien team. Quantity over quality. I'd be even better if it was 400 Hit points and 100-200 armor instead of just 550 hp... but hey, thats for the playtesters to figure out. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Edit: Damage would have to be reduced a tad... but i think with the current faults it shouldn't be cut down to much.
I was just about to suggest this. It makes OC's equally as effective in most situations but even easier for marines to blast though - however, since the OC's are cheaper, their use doesn't cripple the alien's chances at expansion nearly as much as they do now.
Theres no other changes needed in my opinion <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Offensive Chamber - 5 Resources.
Health - 300
Armor - 150
Rate of Fire - Moderately Slow
Damage - 10
This would encourage building Offensive Chambers in GROUPS like they are supposed to be build.
The Health and Armor closely match the fades, and the damage is fair if you actually group the offensive chambers together. 4-5 of these could slow down the hinderance of a group of marines, even with upgrades.
Also on the hive sight, you should mark when an offensive chamber is firing. That way you KNOW when the rambo marine runs through field of offensive chambers to build that phase gate. So even setting up one offensive chamber in a random spot could help the alien menece.
Another possibility would be to drastically reduce the effectiveness of lmg bullets on structures. This would simply mean that more res, time, or manpower would have to be present to "overcome" the static defences.
One thing that I would note is that the only real use needed for the OC is to defend resource nodules and to AID in the defences in hives. I say "aid" in hive defence to say that players SHOULD be there defending their own hives as they really are the best defence that can be offered in the game. However, when I say defending resources I mean offering a quasi-equivalent effect to the marines' electocuted RT effect. Ideally one or two OC's could effectively defend against 2-4 marines with lmgs... even fully upgraded. This leads me to believe that OC's should end up incredibly overpowered and cost a bunch or electrocution should be removed from RT's. Removal of electrocution should accompany the ability for RT's to support a small turret grid (4 turrets max) and then have to spend the resources on turrets which can be destroyed and/or circumvented much like OC's. But now I'm getting rediculously off-topic (maybe not)... that and dinner's ready.... mmmmmmmmmmm foooooood!!!
Sarcasm. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Which is probably what the comment was directed at. Unnecessary verbal diarrhea and disguising a lack of counter-arguments as sarcasm.
Off topic:
Shouldn't parasited marines be on the map as a blip much like aliens are when the marines have motion tracking?
Sarcasm. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Which is probably what the comment was directed at. Unnecessary verbal diarrhea and disguising a lack of counter-arguments as sarcasm. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Simply summing up some quite a few of the posts, then showing them that one can actually offer idea's in contrast
A CC in the middle of some OCs makes for a constant annoyance for about 5 minutes. Now is that a tactical move (distracting aliens) or an annoying exploit (OCs firing at the CC and not marines).
Offensive Chamber - 5 Resources.
Health - 300
Armor - 150
Rate of Fire - Moderately Slow
Damage - 10
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Well, health shouldnt be lowered that much...
If there is for example 8 oc:s in group then only it needs is GL and even only 1 SG guy could take that wall down...
As far as pubs go, they're fun and they do serve a useful purpose.
Firstly, a gorge, a three or four OCs, and a DC or two can hold down a choke point for a long time unless the comm puts some serious res into taking it back (chances are, you'll even out in RFK and time wasted for what you put into it, at least).
Secondly, they provide valuable intelligence. If you put one in a long hallway leading to a hive, double res, or something you have an early warning system that will either force the comm to medspam (assuming the marines have the sense not to shoot at it) or alert you to marine presence. Either way, you win.
Finally, they take time to get around. Just this inherent waste of time can be worth it, especially considering it's something for a less skilled player to be doing when hive 2 is already on the way and there's no real uncontested RTs to be captured, as opposed to going fade or lerk and wasting the res.
If u compare OC:s to hive or fades u can see that the result isnt nice...
You can build 4 OC:s to defend hive or RT or go to fade or build a hive. I cant understand anyone who prefer to make those 4 oc:s instead of doing hive or going to fade...
Hive is a worth of 10oc:s at least...
OC:s would be also pretty much better if you could plant them on the walls or roofs. Oc should be 4 or 5 res and no stats changed... This would also increase marine teamwork cause they couldnt go alone through 4 oc:s without comm giving meds. Or make the OC:s price to 6 or 8 and make so that It'll also parasite when it hit at marine so it would have better use. Or maybe put gorge cost 2 res as someone already told and oc could cost 6 or 8 res. It costs too many res for aliens to build RT:s or OC:s at now.
Jus putting gorge to cost less could help <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The flipside is that you can build 2 right off the bat in a regular game. And a 3-4 resource nerf would make OCs viable, and makes people who like perma-gorging (like me) like it even more.