Humble Alien Ideas
Scuzball
Join Date: 2003-09-08 Member: 20657Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
Join Date: 2003-09-08 Member: 20657Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
<div class="IPBDescription">things that have stuck with me</div> I've been addicted to NS for quite awhile. It's a stunningly good game, and for free, <i>and</i> it's still in a beta. I know lots of people complain about lots of things, and I just have a few suggestions or things that I've noticed.
Marines Hopping.
The first thing they teach you in boot camp: when you see a horrifying alien charging you... start hopping up and down. Victory is assured. <i>What?</i> I've seen people bring this up before, and any suggestion is shot down as 'trying to make the game into Counter Strike' or some nonsense. If it's a combat situation, when a skulk hops like a madman, it generally raises him to about rifle-level. When a rine hops around in melee, it lifts him totally out of the skulk's visual range. Why can't rines, say, stop for a miniscule ammount of time after they land a jump? Or maybe, just maybe, jumping 2 feet straight up would throw his aim of a <i>little</i> bit? Maybe it's just me, but it irks me pretty bad that bouncing around like a 2 year old who's had too much sugar is purely an advantage.
Offense Chambers
I know many people complain about them also. The main problem I have with them is their ineffectivness at actually <i>stopping</i> marines. How many times has a competent marine ignored your oc's, hopped right over them, stood next to them while he shot you, only to continue on to the hive? Now, some people want their HP boosted, or their cost lowered. What <i>I</i> say, is make them more effective at what they do. Marines focus on ranged combat, and aliens on melee, right? <i>Why not give OC's a melee attack</i> as well? Heck, lower their spike damage if you must for balance sake. But when a marine runs right over an OC, it should take those springy, spike-covered arms and <i>thwack</i> him one. Maybe like 30 damage, subject to due tweaking, and maybe jar his vision like he just got hit in the thigh with a six inch spike.
Healspray
Basically, I think healspray should heal a <i>slightly</i> greater % of fades' and onos' hitpoints. It's pretty much useless in a combat situation at the moment. I say that if you're going to send this relativley weak lifeform in, and it's going to devote itself to a purely supportive role, the payoff should be better, or at least enough to make it a viable option.
Darkvision Flashlight
This is a shot in the dark (not very punny is it), but wouldn't it be cool if aliens' flashlight wasn't <i>totally useless?</i> Friendly buildings and players glow. How often has it mattered? I've never missed it. What if it was a personal flashlight, illuminating a small glow of light around you, but <i>it wasn't visible to marines</i>? Think of the glow around a rine that other players see when he has his light on. Like that, but visible to only you. I think it'd be great for seeing prey in the dark, and maybe it would actually make marines <i>scared</i> of darker areas (at which point they turn their light on, dur!).
The Hive is Under Attack!
Finally, and this is a little one, but it'd be nice: a way to toggle which alerts you hear. Since NS has done such a superb job of making noise a true factor in hunting, this really should be an option somewhere. How many times have you been deafened by LIFEFORM IS UNDER ATTACK, only to have a pair of shotgunners amble right up to you simply because you couldn't hear the jingle-jangle of marine boots around the corner? Maybe THE HIVE IS UNDER ATTACK is important enough to be always left on, but I could care less about a random player engaging in minor combat across the map.
These are just suggetions, and I'd appreciate feedback and/or your ideas too!
Marines Hopping.
The first thing they teach you in boot camp: when you see a horrifying alien charging you... start hopping up and down. Victory is assured. <i>What?</i> I've seen people bring this up before, and any suggestion is shot down as 'trying to make the game into Counter Strike' or some nonsense. If it's a combat situation, when a skulk hops like a madman, it generally raises him to about rifle-level. When a rine hops around in melee, it lifts him totally out of the skulk's visual range. Why can't rines, say, stop for a miniscule ammount of time after they land a jump? Or maybe, just maybe, jumping 2 feet straight up would throw his aim of a <i>little</i> bit? Maybe it's just me, but it irks me pretty bad that bouncing around like a 2 year old who's had too much sugar is purely an advantage.
Offense Chambers
I know many people complain about them also. The main problem I have with them is their ineffectivness at actually <i>stopping</i> marines. How many times has a competent marine ignored your oc's, hopped right over them, stood next to them while he shot you, only to continue on to the hive? Now, some people want their HP boosted, or their cost lowered. What <i>I</i> say, is make them more effective at what they do. Marines focus on ranged combat, and aliens on melee, right? <i>Why not give OC's a melee attack</i> as well? Heck, lower their spike damage if you must for balance sake. But when a marine runs right over an OC, it should take those springy, spike-covered arms and <i>thwack</i> him one. Maybe like 30 damage, subject to due tweaking, and maybe jar his vision like he just got hit in the thigh with a six inch spike.
Healspray
Basically, I think healspray should heal a <i>slightly</i> greater % of fades' and onos' hitpoints. It's pretty much useless in a combat situation at the moment. I say that if you're going to send this relativley weak lifeform in, and it's going to devote itself to a purely supportive role, the payoff should be better, or at least enough to make it a viable option.
Darkvision Flashlight
This is a shot in the dark (not very punny is it), but wouldn't it be cool if aliens' flashlight wasn't <i>totally useless?</i> Friendly buildings and players glow. How often has it mattered? I've never missed it. What if it was a personal flashlight, illuminating a small glow of light around you, but <i>it wasn't visible to marines</i>? Think of the glow around a rine that other players see when he has his light on. Like that, but visible to only you. I think it'd be great for seeing prey in the dark, and maybe it would actually make marines <i>scared</i> of darker areas (at which point they turn their light on, dur!).
The Hive is Under Attack!
Finally, and this is a little one, but it'd be nice: a way to toggle which alerts you hear. Since NS has done such a superb job of making noise a true factor in hunting, this really should be an option somewhere. How many times have you been deafened by LIFEFORM IS UNDER ATTACK, only to have a pair of shotgunners amble right up to you simply because you couldn't hear the jingle-jangle of marine boots around the corner? Maybe THE HIVE IS UNDER ATTACK is important enough to be always left on, but I could care less about a random player engaging in minor combat across the map.
These are just suggetions, and I'd appreciate feedback and/or your ideas too!
Comments
God, please leave in at least some things that require skill and that "good" players distinguish from bad ones. They are already slowed down after jumping ones, they lost their bunnyhop, That's more than enough. Hell, every single noob can aim, dodging requires some skill.
<i>Offense Chambers</i>
They might be a little too expensive, but other than that they are fine. OCs are not turrets. You won't stop a complete marine team, no matter how many OCs you build. OCs are there to distract the marines, to force them to build somewhere else, or to (help) take down jetpackes. So drop OCs for example at positions where marines will build phasegates, or in the hive room.
<i>Healspray</i>
Agreed, Healspray should be X HP + X %.
<i>Darkvision Flashlight</i>
I don't know any maps that would need such a feature, thank god.
<i>The Hive is Under Attack</i>
Agreed, the "lifeform is under attack" is useless. So as long as it is there, just delete the wave file. It's not checked by consistency anyways.
3.0b4a
What does the b stand for? :/
::edit:; 3.0 beta 4a <- Taken from download page copy/paste
The problem is that:
1) OCs are much more 'expensive' then turrets.
2) OC fire can be dodged just by jumping and crouching.
3) Even a massive nest of OCs can be eliminated by one marine and an armory.
4) Turrets are much more effective against lerks, gorges, and skulks then the OC is against vanilla marines - yet marines have 3 anti-building measures.
Stop being a marine fanboy - Marines have siege, greande launcher, and the shotgun - aliens have bilebomb... at hive two. The OC needs to either be very cheap, or needs to be much more effective then turrets are.
A bunch of turrets scattered around a room will make the place nearly completely skulkproof, and an utter pain for lerks. A bunch of OCs scattered around the room just means that there's one alien who will be skulking the entire game.
Even if defenses are only to 'slow the enemies down', which is stupid since a turret farm will completely HALT alien advances until they get Fades or Onos, for a 10 res investment that is a VERY steep cost to not only the aliens, but the only alien who won't be getting much res for kills, a gorge should be guarenteed to get at least one kill per chamber. The Gorge is better off dropping defense chambers around instead of OCs since they'll at least stick around longer.
Hear, hear! You think crack jumping and bunnyhopping is kind a skill? Never heard such crap. To get knockback 10 m is no "skill" and bunnyhopping is more a buguseage than a skill!
Remove the knockback than you need skill to avoid getting bitten!
Hear, hear! You think crack jumping and bunnyhopping is kind a skill? Never heard such crap. To get knockback 10 m is no "skill" and bunnyhopping is more a buguseage than a skill!
Remove the knockback than you need skill to avoid getting bitten! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Never read so much crap. First of all: There is N O bunnyhoping for marines in NS 3.0, read my post again. I said they "R E M O V E D it". Plus bunnyhop is here to stay (for the aliens), no matter if you consider it an exploit or not. Oh and yes, bunnyhoping is a skill. Next, dodging too is a skill. I'm not talking about those marines that rely on the knockback effect, those will be crippled in beta 5 anyways, so why bother. Here's what dodging really means, in case you don't know:
<i> dodge
2: a quick evasive movement
v 1: make a sudden movement in a new direction so as to avoid;
"The child dodged the teacher's blow"
2: move to and fro or from place to place usually in an
irregular course; "the pickpocket dodged through the
crowd"</i>
The problem is that:
1) OCs are much more 'expensive' then turrets.
2) OC fire can be dodged just by jumping and crouching.
3) Even a massive nest of OCs can be eliminated by one marine and an armory.
4) Turrets are much more effective against lerks, gorges, and skulks then the OC is against vanilla marines - yet marines have 3 anti-building measures.
Stop being a marine fanboy - Marines have siege, greande launcher, and the shotgun - aliens have bilebomb... at hive two. The OC needs to either be very cheap, or needs to be much more effective then turrets are.
A bunch of turrets scattered around a room will make the place nearly completely skulkproof, and an utter pain for lerks. A bunch of OCs scattered around the room just means that there's one alien who will be skulking the entire game.
Even if defenses are only to 'slow the enemies down', which is stupid since a turret farm will completely HALT alien advances until they get Fades or Onos, for a 10 res investment that is a VERY steep cost to not only the aliens, but the only alien who won't be getting much res for kills, a gorge should be guarenteed to get at least one kill per chamber. The Gorge is better off dropping defense chambers around instead of OCs since they'll at least stick around longer. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The only problem with the OCs is their current ress cost, make them cost 6 - 7 ress and you got a winner. The aliens just need to use OCs correctly.
The only possibilitiy if if there was a trigger that'd active and lift and close doors when marines were in the area, and put OCs behind it. Even then they can just hop and duck around and take much less damage.
The only possibilitiy if if there was a trigger that'd active and lift and close doors when marines were in the area, and put OCs behind it. Even then they can just hop and duck around and take much less damage. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Let me quote myself:
<i>OCs are not turrets. You won't stop a complete marine team, no matter how many OCs you build. OCs are there to distract the marines, to force them to build somewhere else, or to (help) take down jetpackes. So drop OCs for example at positions where marines will build phasegates, or in the hive room.</i>
If they start shooting the OC, great, your whole team will now that there is a marine at a critical position.
turrets do stop aliens from just going by. it may take a half second for them to lock on to you but once they do a leaping skulk would not even make it through. it is already hard to bring down a good t-farm with a fade and when they fix the upgrades applying to turrets it will only get worse.
when a maine runs by as long as he keeps going he will not be hit and even if he is, meds from the sky will see him through.
you know oc's do help but only if they stop to shoot them. that means you need to nearly block a hall with them (and have a few more farther down the hall) to force them to stop and shoot the oc's. that is 5 oc's and 3 dc up front and 3 more oc's down the hall behind. that is 110 rez for a defence they most likely will not just run past.
drop tf in a "T" juntion. 2 turrets at the entance points + as many as you can fit around the tf (4 most of the time). that is 90 rez and no skulk is going to make it past (even learks can have a hard time makeing it past). add in 20 more rez and you get a pg + armory, now nothing will make it past (now with the ability to be renforced in seconds).
all in all the cost is the same but in the end the cost for the marines is much cheaper for the marines because all their rez goes into a pool.
even lowering the cost of oc and upgrades to 5 rez will not make wol = a t-farm.
The only possibilitiy if if there was a trigger that'd active and lift and close doors when marines were in the area, and put OCs behind it. Even then they can just hop and duck around and take much less damage. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Let me quote myself:
<i>OCs are not turrets. You won't stop a complete marine team, no matter how many OCs you build. OCs are there to distract the marines, to force them to build somewhere else, or to (help) take down jetpackes. So drop OCs for example at positions where marines will build phasegates, or in the hive room.</i>
If they start shooting the OC, great, your whole team will now that there is a marine at a critical position. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You people just don't get this -
1) The marines are the ones with siege, not aliens.
2) The marines have shotguns and grenade launchers as well.
3) 10 res for an OC is MUCH more expensive for a gorge then 10 res for a turret.
THE ENTIRE POINT OF THIS THREAD IS TO MAKE OCS BETTER THEN TURRETS - WHY do the MARINES have the best anti-structure tools when there is not a single alien structure that poses any significant threat at all?
Why don't you use this bogus 'logic' of yours, maybe you can justify acid rocket?
"LOL OCS AREN'T TURRETS THEY'RE JUST DISTRACTIONS!"
"LOL ACID ROCKET IS SUPPOSED TO DISTRACT MARINES NOT KILL THEM ROFL OMG"
You're assuming that because it ACTS a certain way, it was intentionally DESIGNED to do that. Well guess what? This game has terrible balance issues, and the OC is one of them - it doesn't make an effective distraction tool, it has no chance of killing a marine, all it is is a resource sink for the gorge.
It's stupid how you're trying to justify an ultra-expensive structure that does NOTHING but stand in the way.
Just because it's an underpowered piece of total **** doesn't mean it was 'designed' to be a big "ROFL LOL OMG LOOK AT ME" chamber. It freaking sucks at everything it does, and it doesn't even work as a distraction tool, since marines can just NOT shoot it and they're 'immune' to your so-called 'distraction'. Or hell they can even drop a comm chair in the middle of a hive, walk in, shoot the hive down, and walk out.
Ehh?? are you talking around the turrets then yes... aliens can climb walls an go into vents around the map to circumvent it but turret farms are usually in a IMPORTANT location YOU want to get
forgot about the nice little "dorp a tf and just run by".
while i do not think the OC sould be better than a turret, i do see your point. they do have many ways to get past (the cheapest drop buildings).
why? they offer stratigic value to the game... Rewarding a team who wisely spends their res. If OCs were 5 res and gorges 2 res... We'd see people dropping OCs, skulking... gorge... drop a few more. It would fit the infestation theme of the alien team. Upgrade chambers should remain at 10... Why reduce them to 5 when they are already worth the 10 res they cost now (well... except the MC... maybe that could be 5 res to)?
Fantastic? We are talking about OCs... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Say... Are you the type to advocate the phrase "Well you shouldn't have let those rines get <Incert important location> in the first place!" on these forums?
How do you propose a alien team do so without static defenses to PREVENT such a thing?
A single marine can be given medpacks and run through the toughest of OC fortifications... usually costing 4-6 res. Next time simply get your com's attention then run in moving at top speed to avoid spikes. in this version... bam, you just nullified 30-40 res in structures thanks to a few medpacks and a phase gate, all while not alerting a single alien of your presense.
Now, on the topic of alerting the aliens, I'd rather get rid of OCs, and have a chamber that informs the aliens of any marine within the chamber's LOS. The chamber would tell the aliens where itself is, and that there are marines near it. That'd be res well spent. No more sneaking by.
Now, on the topic of alerting the aliens, I'd rather get rid of OCs, and have a chamber that informs the aliens of any marine within the chamber's LOS. The chamber would tell the aliens where itself is, and that there are marines near it. That'd be res well spent. No more sneaking by. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I always thought that the SC should put rines in LOS on the mini map... as though a player were seeing the marine. sure would boost the SC first mentality (then again I'd rather just unchain the chambers)
Edit: Perhaps making the marine "temporarily parasited" while in the radius of the chamber, or LOS would benifit it greatly
A single marine can be given medpacks and run through the toughest of OC fortifications... usually costing 4-6 res. Next time simply get your com's attention then run in moving at top speed to avoid spikes. in this version... bam, you just nullified 30-40 res in structures thanks to a few medpacks and a phase gate, all while not alerting a single alien of your presense. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
by the time i take down one oc and fade will come by and kill me. no thx
It's only fair b/c aliens don't know they are being picked up by MT.
If this were done maybe if the marine is within range of an obs the parasite would be spotted. You could also maybe have some procedure for getting rid of the parasite too, whether it be armory humping or something else.
The problem lies in the fact that the number of OCs that are economically feasible to drop(2-3 if aliens are rich) can easily be bypassed by a marine who simply walks past them. The comm drops a med or two afterwards and the unreasonable amount of res spent on that defense has accomplished absolutely nothing. Even a lot of OCs can be held off by a strategically placed CC. The #1 purpose of OCs is to delay marines and possibly warn aliens of their movements, as it should be. We're simply saying that they don't fulfill that purpose as well as they should right now.
Either they should be able to accomplish this in smaller numbers, or they should be cheaper so they can be dropped in appropriate numbers. I prefer a solution that doesn't clutter the map too much, which is why I suggested the 4 per area cap, but some suggestions off the top of my head for alternatives:
1.) "OC is Firing" warning. Comms have it, why can't aliens? They're supposed to be a hive mind, that sort of information should be readibly available. Maybe it would only play after an OC fires 2-3 shots in a short period of time?
2.) A slowdown effect from OC spikes. Marines who are hit by an OC run maybe 30-50% slower for a couple seconds; they can still kill it just as easily with one of their many chamber-demolishing weapons, but walking by unseen will be more difficult.
3.) Short term parasite effect from OCs; a marine who is hit by an OC is parasited for 5-10 seconds. Ideally accompanied by parasites showing up on the minimap.
Just some basic ideas, don't get hung up on the details. I don't think OCs need to be more durable or hit harder, they just need to be able to accomplish their purpose without the impossible res cost of a real WoL.
<img src='http://osc3.com/members/trevelyan/Fluffballofmystery.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />