? race unbalance ?
jesuspal
Join Date: 2002-09-27 Member: 1350Members
Join Date: 2002-09-27 Member: 1350Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Yet to see aliens winning</div>Today, I have played like 20 games. 90% of these I played as an Alien and in these 20 games I didn't see a single one that aliens won. I dunno, maybe its that the people don't know how to play aliens...
I know that playtesters played the game for months to test the game balance and to bring in tweaks to help the whole thing but I just want to ask if some people have had the same play experience as me.
If not... then I'll just keep getting raped as an Alien and maybe some day I'll get skilled enough to kill the damn marines <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo-->
I know that playtesters played the game for months to test the game balance and to bring in tweaks to help the whole thing but I just want to ask if some people have had the same play experience as me.
If not... then I'll just keep getting raped as an Alien and maybe some day I'll get skilled enough to kill the damn marines <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo-->
Comments
Remember, no one has played this before. The whole building concept is new and people have to learn how to use it.
It will balance out once people get used to things.
Also... you'll noticed a LARGE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE ON THE MARINE TEAMS AND PRACTICALLY NO ONE ON THE ALIEN SIDE!!!
Why?
Because Aliens LOSE. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':angry:'><!--endemo-->
The trick to winning with aliens, it seems, is RAPID expansion and fortification. Move like the plague you are, and once you get three hives online, evolve to onos and smack the marines around a bit. Also, when you're playing as an onos, I find redemption to be an ideal trait to evolve. You almost NEVER die with it enabled.
Skulks, while most people complain about how underpowered they are, can be brutally effective. The trick with a skulk is to pretend you're in a sci-fi movie =D. Crouch up in the corners, hidden, until the marines have all passed you by. Then, attack! kill as many as you can before they notice you, then retreat to the shadows. Repeat.
BTW: NS is without a doubt the best game I have EVER played. EVER.
Note that the first line of that post is "I haven't played NS yet."
Oh, and none of them had an Alien win.
1. The playtesters that were playing on the alien side were probably playing 100% perfect teamplay. That's not the case in the public games on the internet. <!--emo&:(--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('><!--endemo-->
2. The playtesters have alot more experience with Aliens advantages, skills...
Maybe these could be reasons why the playtesters did not see any unbalance. The game itself may not be "unbalanced" BUT I hope that the context of public internet games won't stay the same as now cuz this could a Pain in the A*s for a <Godly> Mod.
maybe it's just ping, but i've gone into a group of marines biting for like 6 seconds straight and not one of them even seems to flinch. How do i know if my attacks land?
How can aliens kill the structures? All the good structural attacks come only with 3 hives (xenocide, bile, onos...). You expect a fade to stand against 4 turrets?
And what about the HMG and shotgun? The aliens don't stand a CHANCE if there's a heavy armor guys with HMG, even suposing aliens have 2 hives already, the HMG rips apart a fade in 2 seconds (and a skulk in even less tiem). Since fades are the second most powerful class of alien, i don't see how this can be considered balanced.
Maybe it's just the ping that's messing with my bite attacks, or maybe i just need a lot more practice, but so far the aliens have seemed GRAVELY underpowered, even when i get 2 level 3 upgrades.
Onos being the exception.... lol
And what about the HMG and shotgun? The aliens don't stand a CHANCE if there's a heavy armor guys with HMG, even suposing aliens have 2 hives already, the HMG rips apart a fade in 2 seconds (and a skulk in even less tiem). Since fades are the second most powerful class of alien, i don't see how this can be considered balanced.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
don't let the HA HMG marines see you until it's too late for them... meaning your claws should be in their back by the time they know you're there. Also, fades can take out turrets with ease using acid rockets, lerks can use umbra to protect other aliens, and even pudgy can build defensive chambers to keep his buddies healed while they try to take on a turret.
The game elements work with each other in an AMAZINGLY beautiful way, and once you see it you'll begin to see why any game can go any way at any time for either side...
I think the biggest issue is how people play the aliens. I hear so many people complain about how they were killed by one shotgun blast. The fact of the matter is they aren't using their upgrades such as stealth, wall climbing, etc to get the drop on a marine. If people would stop trying to fight marines head on they would do so much better. Try hiding on top of a wall or above a door. When they run through drop down and get them. A skulk that can get in close range to a marine will more than likely kill them.
Also just because the aliens are the "death match" race doesn't mean you wouldn't do better working as a team. A group of skulks can rip through marines and cause major chaos. I've yet to see a spore cloud or any type of skills that would otherwise cause a problem. This I think is due to a lack of understanding of the alien race.
After that, I think it's really important to get cloaking. This way you can hide as a Fade and have a chance of taking out heavy-armored HMG marines.
For general strategy, the aliens HAVE to get resource towers up fast and defend the hive location closest to the marines. If the marines manage to drop 20 turrets in one of your hive rooms, your team is screwed. Get a 2nd hive up in a remote location first, but don't neglect the hard to defend one. Defense towers are a must, and the carapace upgrade is good. Don't worry about regen, let the towers handle that for you. And since I said to use cloaking above, you'll have to skip out on the movement upgrades until you have all 3 hives. Adv. Hivesight and Scent of Fear are horrible too.
Just my observations. Oh, and marine motion detection is really powerful. Keep in mind as an alien that if you move, everyone knows where you are.
Onos + level 3 Cloak = win
Try it some time, cloak at one end of a hallway and wait <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo-->
I also agree on alien bite, I cant see a damned thing and I can't set r_drawviewmodel 0 because then I lose everything else in the hud and some features like hive sight. I can't hear if I hit them because they don't grunt and I can't see afterwards because they don't bleed.
If you lose 1 hive while marins have HMGs and Heavy armor you lost if they setup intelligent defense.
And frodo, exactly how effective are those attack towers and defensive towers when a marine is using grenade launchers? Not at all. One marine with HMG covering his back and you just lost that area if you don't have an Onos or 3 hives for the better attacks.
Fades can rip up HA marines provided they just use a lil' stealth.
Turrets?
- Weak. Even if you pack them together, and put defense towers behind the turrets, all the marine has to do is come back with a grenade launcher and kiss all the turrets goodbye. They need to have range equal to that of a nade launcher.
The Skulk?
- Their bite animation blocks your view too much. You can't see where the target is when you're jumping, biting, and trying to avoid his fire. Also, you can't tell if you're hitting him or not; there needs to be a loud marine grunt and some blood so you can tell.
- They are pointless against HA. Even if you sneak up on them from behind. They turn and kill you in one burst.
- Scent of fear and Adv. sight upgrades are useless as well.
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The fact that the aliens need all three of their hives built in order to stand a chance against the marines is fine, the problem lies in the fact that there's 3 spots and only 3. If the marines manage to set up camp in one of your hive rooms, you don't stand a chance against their best stuff. If there were more than 3 spots to build a hive at that would at least be easier for the aliens to attain and hold 3 hives. The marines don't need to build anything in a specific spot in order for them to buy their best gear and weapons.
Way back when we first started playtesting, there were a lot of marine wins. And I mean a lot. And this lasted a few weeks, at least. All I'm saying is to give it time.
And to the person complaining about how PTs played aliens with 100% teamwork, well, we also played marines with 100% teamwork. Have you see that on any servers yet?
And to the person who said people always go marines <i>because</i> aliens lose: bollocks. Aliens are losing <i>because</i> everyone goes marines.
<span style='color:red'><b>You can't expect a game to be perfectly balanced if not everyone knows how to even play it.</span></b>
Aliens just seem to die really really fast against a marine with that wonderful bullet prediction code.
To add to this, these maps are horrible. What is with all those long, completely lit, hallways? To let the entire human team sit in them and only have to fear lerks and fades (Which do little to no damage at range against heavy armors)?
I'm proud to say I was on the winning team in the next two games. A Fade with level 3 cloak and level 3 silence is a fearsome, fearsome killer. There has been more than one occasion where I've slaughtered an entire squad of marines in an airlock or a hallway, several times without even taking damage.
As far as turrets go, please. A bile bomb is an awesome area-of-effect weapon, and strafe firing it is perfect. Hide behind corner, strafe, lob, fall back behind corner. Turrets have a small delay between when they detect you and when they can fire. It's very easy to use that delay to lob out a bomb. I've cleared out a nest of 4 turrets in that such manner. If marines come looking for you, fall back, cloak, and wait for them to walk past. Then melee them.
For all you guys complaining that the marines can dump down 20 turrets, or that a group of 5 marines in heavy armour with HMG is too powerful, you're forgetting the simple RTS principal of "if it's the ultimate tactic, don't let the ####### live long enough to pull it off"
Fade 4 Life!
This RP problem throws the entire game out of whack. Marines can spam turrets, HMGs, and HA like crazy, and this makes it easy for them to win.
Don't worry, Flayra is working on this. It's not a bug we ran into with the build until it got sent out to other server admins, so I'm not sure if it's a bug, or admins changing things.
So the question I have is, why ISN'T there an autobalancing feature in the mod? After all, it's not hard for it to count the number of marines & aliens, and rapidly see a problem?
I think it should probably be a server-side variable, but I really think there should be such an option....otherwise, it's not much fun for the undermanned (or under-aliened, I guess) team...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
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And to the person who said people always go marines <i>because</i> aliens lose: bollocks. Aliens are losing <i>because</i> everyone goes marines.
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I've seen both sides win, and I can believe they will be balanced with more practice. But only when the teams are balanced...
So the question I have is, why ISN'T there an autobalancing feature in the mod? After all, it's not hard for it to count the number of marines & aliens, and rapidly see a problem?
I think it should probably be a server-side variable, but I really think there should be such an option....otherwise, it's not much fun for the undermanned (or under-aliened, I guess) team...
<snip>
And to the person who said people always go marines <i>because</i> aliens lose: bollocks. Aliens are losing <i>because</i> everyone goes marines.
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<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've seen both sides win, and I can believe they will be balanced with more practice. But only when the teams are balanced...
So the question I have is, why ISN'T there an autobalancing feature in the mod? After all, it's not hard for it to count the number of marines & aliens, and rapidly see a problem?
I think it should probably be a server-side variable, but I really think there should be such an option....otherwise, it's not much fun for the undermanned (or under-aliened, I guess) team...
After the second game, every marine was complaining about how weak the guns were and how the aliens were 'unbalanced'.
Give it more time, learn the game, try new things.