Mt Is Not The Counter To Sensory!11

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Comments

  • crisanocrisano Join Date: 2004-09-01 Member: 31152Members
    Its true aliens can't spam SCs everywhere early to counter mt totally, however smart gorges will place SCs at choke points. That's what SC strat relies on, the aliens camping choke points while cloaked. Add a lerk into the mix, strip any armor 1 upgrades and focus skulks do some pretty nasty damage to the marines.

    Take ns_nancy for example, cloaking the ladder outside of messhall gives aliens a huge advantage. Add a lerk into the mix and any marine that pops his head up into cargo will die with one bite. MT won't help at the choke points because if the aliens are smart, they'll stay in the area where SCs are cloaking them.
  • NecrosisNecrosis The Loquacious Sage Join Date: 2003-08-03 Member: 18828Members, Constellation
    And if you've focus you don't even need to worry about hiding near an SC, since any marine is dead in one bite.
  • BreakfastSausagesBreakfastSausages Join Date: 2002-12-19 Member: 11148Members
    Everyone who suggested that mt is the counter to sensory please refer to the name of the thread.


    mt is NOT A COUNTER to sensory. Sure rushing motion tracking against sensory doesn't guarantee you a loss, the weaknesses of sensory are well known but thats another topic. I have won games spamming any number of stupid strats, but that doesn't always mean I am a good commander, or that the strategy wasn't stupid. Just that the enemy played worse than my team overall.


    Please I am begging you stop saying mt is the counter to sensory, some innocent newbie is going to read that and not realize that you don't know what you are talking about.
  • ZiGGYZiGGY Join Date: 2003-01-19 Member: 12479Members
    edited September 2004
    ok Ill say it right here <!--QuoteBegin-MEEEEE+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MEEEEE)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->---------> MT is of higher priority if the aliens go sensory first compared to defense first<---------<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    EDITED FOR COOOOOOOOOOOOOL NESSSs111!111
    Flame away.
  • BreakfastSausagesBreakfastSausages Join Date: 2002-12-19 Member: 11148Members
    edited September 2004
    sigh, some people just gotta do it their own way I guess.
  • crisanocrisano Join Date: 2004-09-01 Member: 31152Members
    Its so much fun playing against a marine team that tries to counter sensories with MT, gotta LOVE level 0 armor. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    I remember in a hallway I mowed down 5 marines grouped together as a solo focus skulk, they knew I was there but couldn't stop me since I waited and jumped around the corner. Five bites, five dead marines, onward to marine start for the spawn camp! GG rines.
  • TheAdjTheAdj He demanded a cool forum title of some type. Join Date: 2004-05-03 Member: 28436Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    Motion tracking is horrible against sensory for 2 reasons, one being you RELY on motion to know where aliens are, so you make poor decisions because it appears no aliens are in a room when in fact it's packed with them. Sensory allows aliens to disrupt your recon that the commander can provide with MT, and this nullifies a major advantage of MT to the commander: Knowing where the aliens are in real time and being able to counter it. When I get MT (quite rare, I don't like relying on it) I send marines to where aliens are moving to, not where they already are. Everywhere they go a marine is waiting on them. I pre-empt every move the alien team makes, and prevent them from doing anything to me. Sensory is the counter to motion tracking, not vice versa. While pubnub skulks may run to a hiding spot and cloak, any sensible player will use this to her or his advantage and bait you into an ambush with this. Hide in a corner in the next room, and have a pair of skulks waiting in ambush in the room marines must pass though. Marines run through for the "easy" kill on the skulk they know about, and suddenly they start dying from cloakers. MT gives real-time intelligence, and sensory directly counter this, because you NEVER know accurately where every alien is, thus they can be anywhere.
  • ZaggyZaggy NullPointerException The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-12-10 Member: 24214Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Onos, Subnautica Playtester
    Motion Tracking > Ambush > Marines

    Or in normal words, if you're marines have motion tracking, the chances of them getting ambushed is nihil IF they use the minimap to see what's around.
  • crisanocrisano Join Date: 2004-09-01 Member: 31152Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Zaggy+Sep 10 2004, 01:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zaggy @ Sep 10 2004, 01:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Motion Tracking > Ambush > Marines

    Or in normal words, if you're marines have motion tracking, the chances of them getting ambushed is nihil IF they use the minimap to see what's around. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    SC > MT > Ambushes > Marines

    Any alien in the range of a sensory chamber will not show up on the minimap nor will it show up as a blue circle on your screen. Not only will the marines be walking in blind, once in the room they can't see cloaked aliens. Also, chances are if you went MT first, you won't be getting armor 1 for a little while so focus bites rape the marines.
  • TheAdjTheAdj He demanded a cool forum title of some type. Join Date: 2004-05-03 Member: 28436Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-Zaggy+Sep 10 2004, 12:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zaggy @ Sep 10 2004, 12:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Motion Tracking > Ambush > Marines

    Or in normal words, if you're marines have motion tracking, the chances of them getting ambushed is nihil IF they use the minimap to see what's around. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Did you read a word I said in the post RIGHT above yours? Seriously.
  • FinFin Join Date: 2004-06-26 Member: 29551Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-crisano+Sep 10 2004, 12:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (crisano @ Sep 10 2004, 12:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Zaggy+Sep 10 2004, 01:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zaggy @ Sep 10 2004, 01:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Motion Tracking > Ambush > Marines

    Or in normal words, if you're marines have motion tracking, the chances of them getting ambushed is nihil IF they use the minimap to see what's around. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    SC > MT > Ambushes > Marines

    Any alien in the range of a sensory chamber will not show up on the minimap nor will it show up as a blue circle on your screen. Not only will the marines be walking in blind, once in the room they can't see cloaked aliens. Also, chances are if you went MT first, you won't be getting armor 1 for a little while so focus bites rape the marines. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    scan > sc > mt > ambushes > marines

    Scan a choke point and good bye aliens.
  • crisanocrisano Join Date: 2004-09-01 Member: 31152Members
    That is true but on all the pubs I've played, I have pretty much never seen a commander scan like that since they usually don't know about it or is busy with something else. Plus, even with scan, a group of focus skulks will still destroy the level 0 armor light marines.
  • FinFin Join Date: 2004-06-26 Member: 29551Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-crisano+Sep 10 2004, 03:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (crisano @ Sep 10 2004, 03:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> That is true but on all the pubs I've played, I have pretty much never seen a commander scan like that since they usually don't know about it or is busy with something else. Plus, even with scan, a group of focus skulks will still destroy the level 0 armor light marines. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Thats because commanders at pubs are extremely lazy or misunderstand their job. 95% of the time should be spent watching over the marines and 5% upgrading. How many comms do you meet who drop meds while you are in the middle of combat. Not many. Most you have to call 10 times before they respond. Commanders with quick response can force a win in large games just by accurately medding their marines and pushing those marines to the alien hive.
  • ZiGGYZiGGY Join Date: 2003-01-19 Member: 12479Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-TheAdj`+Sep 10 2004, 06:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TheAdj` @ Sep 10 2004, 06:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Motion tracking is horrible against sensory for 2 reasons, one being you RELY on motion to know where aliens are, so you make poor decisions because it appears no aliens are in a room when in fact it's packed with them. Sensory allows aliens to disrupt your recon that the commander can provide with MT, and this nullifies a major advantage of MT to the commander: Knowing where the aliens are in real time and being able to counter it. When I get MT (quite rare, I don't like relying on it) I send marines to where aliens are moving to, not where they already are. Everywhere they go a marine is waiting on them. I pre-empt every move the alien team makes, and prevent them from doing anything to me. Sensory is the counter to motion tracking, not vice versa. While pubnub skulks may run to a hiding spot and cloak, any sensible player will use this to her or his advantage and bait you into an ambush with this. Hide in a corner in the next room, and have a pair of skulks waiting in ambush in the room marines must pass though. Marines run through for the "easy" kill on the skulk they know about, and suddenly they start dying from cloakers. MT gives real-time intelligence, and sensory directly counter this, because you NEVER know accurately where every alien is, thus they can be anywhere. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I like how neither of your reasons have any relevance to the game :S Sensory limits the need for upgrades past arm1/catpack allowing res to be better distributed to more powerful upgs like mt <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> And as sensory is an almost purely defensive upgrade the purpose is to expand and hold until tier 2 adv is attained, which should be no issue if you shift res focus :/
  • FinFin Join Date: 2004-06-26 Member: 29551Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-ZiGGY^+Sep 10 2004, 04:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ZiGGY^ @ Sep 10 2004, 04:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-TheAdj`+Sep 10 2004, 06:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TheAdj` @ Sep 10 2004, 06:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Motion tracking is horrible against sensory for 2 reasons, one being you RELY on motion to know where aliens are, so you make poor decisions because it appears no aliens are in a room when in fact it's packed with them.  Sensory allows aliens to disrupt your recon that the commander can provide with MT, and this nullifies a major advantage of MT to the commander:  Knowing where the aliens are in real time and being able to counter it.  When I get MT (quite rare, I don't like relying on it) I send marines to where aliens are moving to, not where they already are.  Everywhere they go a marine is waiting on them.  I pre-empt every move the alien team makes, and prevent them from doing anything to me.  Sensory is the counter to motion tracking, not vice versa.  While pubnub skulks may run to a hiding spot and cloak, any sensible player will use this to her or his advantage and bait you into an ambush with this.  Hide in a corner in the next room, and have a pair of skulks waiting in ambush in the room marines must pass though.  Marines run through for the "easy" kill on the skulk they know about, and suddenly they start dying from cloakers.  MT gives real-time intelligence, and sensory directly counter this, because you NEVER know accurately where every alien is, thus they can be anywhere. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I like how neither of your reasons have any relevance to the game :S Sensory limits the need for upgrades past arm1/catpack allowing res to be better distributed to more powerful upgs like mt <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> And as sensory is an almost purely defensive upgrade the purpose is to expand and hold until tier 2 adv is attained, which should be no issue if you shift res focus :/ <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Well one of his reasons is correct. Marines get over confident, lose their proper movements techniques and it disrupts the balance between offensive and defensive movements. For example Joe marine sees a blob around the corner so he runs out at it thinking he has a kill, next thing he knows a skulk is coming down on him from the top. Mt is quiet useless, sound and scan is much much better.
  • PainUserPainUser Join Date: 2003-10-31 Member: 22150Members
    edited September 2004
    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I like how neither of your reasons have any relevance to the game :S Sensory limits the need for upgrades past arm1/catpack allowing res to be better distributed to more powerful upgs like mt<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Could you please rephrase that so I, or anyone else reading this knows what you are trying to say? I honestly have no idea what you are talking about, and who gets captacks?....

    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And as sensory is an almost purely defensive upgrade the purpose is to expand and hold until tier 2 adv is attained, which should be no issue if you shift res focus :/<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    So are you saying focus, an upgrade that increases damage, is defensive? And if sensories are purly defensive what are DEFENSE CHAMBERS for? Regeneration, Redemption, and Carapace are certainly defensive upgrades.

    Not trying to bash you or anything just try rephrasing all of that so it makes sense.
  • TheAdjTheAdj He demanded a cool forum title of some type. Join Date: 2004-05-03 Member: 28436Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-ZiGGY^+Sep 10 2004, 04:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ZiGGY^ @ Sep 10 2004, 04:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I like how neither of your reasons have any relevance to the game :S Sensory limits the need for upgrades past arm1/catpack allowing res to be better distributed to more powerful upgs like mt <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> And as sensory is an almost purely defensive upgrade the purpose is to expand and hold until tier 2 adv is attained, which should be no issue if you shift res focus :/ <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    No relavence to the game? Ok, try this. Get on a pub where aliens get sensory, and have half a brain. Get motion tracking first. See how horrific the slaughter is. MT is a strategic upgrade that lets you beat the aliens by simply knowing what they're doing. That's the point of motion tracking, it's near impossible for the aliens to do anything with a commander that knows how to move marines around.

    Sensory allows for a lot of active upgrade abilities, namely focus. I can't understand half of what you posted, so I'll try to understand it as best I can (taking a guess that english isn't your first language, based on the sig). Have you played this game at all as the commander? Do you know how difficult it is to get armor1, and arms lab upgrade, and motion tracking, and obs upgrade, in the first minutes of the game? If you plan on being offensive at all, you choose one or the other. Late armor1 = gg focus 1 hit kills you, and late motion tracking is quite worthless. It's most definitely not a defensive upgrade set, it's great for maximizing surprise and therefore maximizing damage done. Defense is about survival, movement is about speed and endurance, sensory is about surprise. The focus of sensory isn't to defend until the second hive is up, that is the ENTIRE ALIEN TEAMS DESIGN. The 3 chambers simply give you 3 different ways to go about it.

    If you think motion tracking is more powerful than higher upgrades on the arms lab, you're sadly mistaken. Motion helps you know where that fade is, a lvl2 shotgun will kill the fade, motion won't. In fact I would think sensory would make people want to upgrade, as a lvl3 shotgun has a ridiculous affect on fades. It's quite possibly the most destructive weapon in the game in terms of all around stopping/killing power on both aliens and their structures. That alone makes arms labs upgrades more powerful than motion tracking.

    NS is an odd game because of the crazy skill differences. Don't think just because some random strat that's really not the correct one to use in the situation works on some random pub that it's good. I'm sure motion tracking works on a lot of pubs against sensory, that doesn't mean it's the right upgrade to get it for, because it's not a counter. In fact sensory is the counter to motion tracking for reasons already stated. So if you want to critique what I write, please do so with an explanation of why I'm wrong, not a paragraph that really is difficult for everyone to read.
  • lynXijlynXij Join Date: 2004-02-07 Member: 26175Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    The real counter to sensory is a 2 hive lockdown.

    Electrify anything that's of any importance.

    A fade/onos without DCs cant advance on anything.

    So basically, make sure the 2nd hive doesn't go up, and its GG.
  • ZiGGYZiGGY Join Date: 2003-01-19 Member: 12479Members
    I really am not going to bother discussing this <i>on the natural selection boards of all places</i> so believe what the hell you want if you think not getting something immediately means it isnt a counter to it then god help you.
  • PainUserPainUser Join Date: 2003-10-31 Member: 22150Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I really am not going to bother discussing this on the natural selection boards of all places so believe what the hell you want if you think not getting something immediately means it isnt a counter to it then god help you.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    What? How is the natural selection board not a good place to discuss natural selection?

    Furthermore, what are you trying to say?
  • Bishop_XBishop_X Join Date: 2004-09-08 Member: 31531Members
    has anyone else considered hand nades as a counter to sensory, it uncloaks aliens near the blast, so if a marine just died in a corridor, chuck ur nade down it to uncloak the skulk then roast him as hes in the open. <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • SaltzBadSaltzBad Join Date: 2004-02-23 Member: 26833Members
    edited September 2004
    Grenades still pull out too slow. I've tried it on co_ servers, using MT, blast-damage friendly areas and hand grenades - they can still comftorable walk away before it detonates.

    Sensory is really countered by pinging, armor1 and welders mostly. A sensory rush is succesful if they can fight the very few pings you have in the earlygame well enough to keep your ressources down - or it fails horribly if they can't, in which case you'll be able to afford mines, phasegates, observatorys, more pings and maybe you'll even make it into the 2nd Hive, at which point you've basicly got a win by default.
  • MrBenMrBen ns_eclipse, ns_veil caretaker Join Date: 2002-11-14 Member: 8575Members
    Ziggys logic is flawless. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • Fat_Man_Little_CoatFat_Man_Little_Coat Join Date: 2003-12-02 Member: 23857Members
    You don't really need a counter. If the first chamber dropped is sens most of time the aliens will pretty much give up or start bickering over the value of sensory/focus/scent of fear and pretty much give the marines the game.
  • the_x5the_x5 the Xzianthian Join Date: 2004-03-02 Member: 27041Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-ApolloGX+Aug 19 2004, 06:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ApolloGX @ Aug 19 2004, 06:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <b>counters to SC:</b>
    armor upgrades
    welders
    observatories - pinging
    pressing the weak side of map
    hive lockdown
    electricity

    <b>counters to MC:</b>
    Motion Tracking
    obsv at base
    pressing the hive

    <b>counters to DC:</b>
    shotguns
    welders
    weapon upgrades
    rt control <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I like this.
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