<!--QuoteBegin-ThE HeRo+Aug 26 2004, 03:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ThE HeRo @ Aug 26 2004, 03:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I tried to use the credit-card and cd-key thing...I think twice or so, it never really worked though. I honestly don't think this is very funny. What IS funny, is how valve can make a **** game like CS:CZ, then when no one buys it for reasons obvious enough, they say "well, since CS:CZ sold worse than Gabe Newells virginity, we'll let all the people who bought/buy CZ <i>beta test CS:S!!!</i>" **** the people who have been playing CS for 5 years, **** the people who bought CS, let's boost our sales so we can minimize our losses!
It's all a marketing tactic. I don't blame a single one of the people for trying either. It's the biggest crock of sh*t i've ever seen. It doesn't matter though, I didn't get banned. I hate valve. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> OH NO! VALVe wants money!! THOSE LITTLE BASTARDS!
If their games suck so much, people won't buy them. If you think it sucks, then you shouldn't be trying to get it for free. Instead, you should avoid buying the game. If Valve makes stupid decisions, they will pay for it in the form of reduced sales.
CZ isn't a bad game, its just annoying to pay for a slight upgrade for a game you get for free anyways. Imagine if people didn't have to pay for starcraft, and then Blizzard comes out with broodwar, asking people to pay 50$ for it. How many people do you think would acctually buy the game? All you get is a new campain, which no one really cares about since they bought starcraft for the MP anyways, and 6 new units. No one wants to pay for an expansion to a free game, it has nothing to do with the expansion sucking, it just is an unneccisary improvement that costs you something that feels like it should be free.
I have absolutly nothing against valve opening the beta to people who bought CZ. Valve doens't owe CS fans anything, the only way they ever supported valve was most likely with a purchase 5 years ago. Being a fan DOES NOT give you status! The people who paid valve for a minor upgrade to a product they get for free are valve's real supporters.
<!--QuoteBegin-ThE HeRo+Aug 26 2004, 11:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ThE HeRo @ Aug 26 2004, 11:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> **** the people who have been playing CS for 5 years, ... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> These people paid $30 for something they played for <i>five years</i> and they should be angry that they have to pay for something extra instead of getting it for free?
Seems they are on a role, I should see if I can get them to crack down on who ever is using my HL CD-key. Not that I really care, I have another from my copy of CS, and another from my HL2 coupon, I just don't want that person to have it.
EEK, the world is coming to an end when we really do agree with something. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
In other news, I agree, it's good that they're cracking down on CC fraud in games. "OMG WHAT HAPPENED TO MY UBER 1337 ACCOUNT!!!111!!!" "Well son, 11 counts of Fraud and other things." Haxor disappears. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-i'm lost+Aug 26 2004, 07:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (i'm lost @ Aug 26 2004, 07:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If you think it sucks, then you shouldn't be trying to get it for free. Instead, you should avoid buying the game. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Which was exactly what these people were doing. They don't want to pay for a crappy game. They want to beta test without being used for profit.
At any rate, even if you disagree with this, and find it rediculous that I'm taking sides with these people, that's just fine and dandy. You guys think that trying to beta test for free is stealing from valve.
It seriously pisses me off how ANY ONE OF YOU even THINK you have a idea about how much game design costs. Yeah, they WERE covering their losses with that. Is that wrong? Hell freaking no. Its THEIR game. Its THEIR right to sell it the way they want. Not to mention, I'm willing to bet you never even TRIED the real CZ, not deleted scenes- which is actually quite FUN if you like Counter-Strike. Get over yourself, and if you want to **** about something, make sure you've got one hell of a good reason. This definately isn't. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You know what, you're absolutely right. It is their game, and they can do whatever they please with it. You want a reason for my *****ing, yet you have no reason to be *****ing. If you've EVER downloaded or shared music/movies/games/software, ANYTHING COPYRIGHTED, what are you doing complaining? You do the same thing these people do. Anyone else notice the irony?
<!--QuoteBegin-Mantrid+Aug 26 2004, 09:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mantrid @ Aug 26 2004, 09:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Theres a big difference between downloading an episode of Seinfeld and using someone's credit card. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> True, I agree with the credit card thing. I find it moronic if someone tried to use a credit-card, that's just asking for trouble. However, I looked up about this, and it's not fraud. The numbers they entered are no one's bank account, no real credit-card numbers. What these people did was use the credit-card number algorithm, so the servers at valve would take it. They arn't real cards, or real accounts, just fake numbers.
But what about the cd-key exploit? It works almost the same way, but there isn't any credit card use. You enter in the letters and numbers of the same algorithm, so the computer would take it. Before the server realizes its false, you crash the program. That's how it worked.
<!--QuoteBegin-ThE HeRo+Aug 26 2004, 09:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ThE HeRo @ Aug 26 2004, 09:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Mantrid+Aug 26 2004, 09:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mantrid @ Aug 26 2004, 09:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Theres a big difference between downloading an episode of Seinfeld and using someone's credit card. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> True, I agree with the credit card thing. I find it moronic if someone tried to use a credit-card, that's just asking for trouble. However, I looked up about this, and it's not fraud. The numbers they entered are no one's bank account, no real credit-card numbers. What these people did was use the credit-card number algorithm, so the servers at valve would take it. They arn't real cards, or real accounts, just fake numbers.
But what about the cd-key exploit? It works almost the same way, but there isn't any credit card use. You enter in the letters and numbers of the same algorithm, so the computer would take it. Before the server realizes its false, you crash the program. That's how it worked.
So in fact, it's really not any different. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Randomly entering numbers into a CC# box is attemting credit card fraud, randomly entering numbers into a CD key box is attemting game theft. Attemted stealing isn't the worst thing you can possibly do, but it is agianst the law, and I don't see any reason why Valve shouldn't be attemting to discourage it.
I think it's just so terrible that Valve is making people pay money to try out their new game before anyone else. It's like they have salaries to pay or something, pfft. I mean, because you bought Half-Life and downloaded CS for free, you're clearly <i>entitled</i> to recieve all other versions of CS for free as well. How dare they force you to pay money for services.
<!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Aug 26 2004, 09:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Aug 26 2004, 09:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Randomly entering numbers into a CC# box is attemting credit card fraud, randomly entering numbers into a CD key box is attemting game theft. Attemted stealing isn't the worst thing you can possibly do, but it is agianst the law, and I don't see any reason why Valve shouldn't be attemting to discourage it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> They did fix it, you can't do it anymore. They fixed it awhile ago. And they could have just stopped there. Not being able to do something is a pretty good deterrant. But they banned alot of the people doing it. They didn't *have* to do that, but they did. They banned them all for, what, 1 or 5 years? I forget the penalty. I think a temporary suspension for all involved would have been discouragement, but banning for a year or more sounds more like domination to me.
<!--QuoteBegin-Gadzuko+Aug 26 2004, 09:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gadzuko @ Aug 26 2004, 09:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think it's just so terrible that Valve is making people pay money to try out their new game before anyone else. It's like they have salaries to pay or something, pfft. I mean, because you bought Half-Life and downloaded CS for free, you're clearly <i>entitled</i> to recieve all other versions of CS for free as well. How dare they force you to pay money for services. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Incorrect, alot of these people bought counter-strike, and didn't buy half-life. Valve originally was going to have everyone who bought CS, and CZ beta test, but the marked out the people who bought CS because they figured people would buy CZ to beta test, and try to make up for the dismal sale of CZ.
<!--QuoteBegin-ThE HeRo+Aug 26 2004, 10:00 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ThE HeRo @ Aug 26 2004, 10:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Aug 26 2004, 09:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Aug 26 2004, 09:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Randomly entering numbers into a CC# box is attemting credit card fraud, randomly entering numbers into a CD key box is attemting game theft. Attemted stealing isn't the worst thing you can possibly do, but it is agianst the law, and I don't see any reason why Valve shouldn't be attemting to discourage it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> They did fix it, you can't do it anymore. They fixed it awhile ago. And they could have just stopped there. Not being able to do something is a pretty good deterrant. But they banned alot of the people doing it. They didn't *have* to do that, but they did. They banned them all for, what, 1 or 5 years? I forget the penalty. I think a temporary suspension for all involved would have been discouragement, but banning for a year or more sounds more like domination to me. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> ITS ILLEGAL, AS IN AGAINST REAL LIFE LAWS!
Were not talking about hacking a game or something, were talking about essentially attemting to steal money from people. The offenders should thank thier lucky stars that they are only banned and haven't been reported to the FBI.
<!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Aug 26 2004, 10:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Aug 26 2004, 10:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-ThE HeRo+Aug 26 2004, 10:00 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ThE HeRo @ Aug 26 2004, 10:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Aug 26 2004, 09:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Aug 26 2004, 09:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Randomly entering numbers into a CC# box is attemting credit card fraud, randomly entering numbers into a CD key box is attemting game theft. Attemted stealing isn't the worst thing you can possibly do, but it is agianst the law, and I don't see any reason why Valve shouldn't be attemting to discourage it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> They did fix it, you can't do it anymore. They fixed it awhile ago. And they could have just stopped there. Not being able to do something is a pretty good deterrant. But they banned alot of the people doing it. They didn't *have* to do that, but they did. They banned them all for, what, 1 or 5 years? I forget the penalty. I think a temporary suspension for all involved would have been discouragement, but banning for a year or more sounds more like domination to me. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ITS ILLEGAL, AS IN AGAINST REAL LIFE LAWS!
Were not talking about hacking a game or something, were talking about essentially attemting to steal money from people. The offenders should thank thier lucky stars that they are only banned and haven't been reported to the FBI. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If the credit-cards were fake, just who are these "people" they tried stealing money from?
<!--QuoteBegin-ThE HeRo+Aug 26 2004, 10:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ThE HeRo @ Aug 26 2004, 10:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Aug 26 2004, 10:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Aug 26 2004, 10:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-ThE HeRo+Aug 26 2004, 10:00 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ThE HeRo @ Aug 26 2004, 10:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Aug 26 2004, 09:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Aug 26 2004, 09:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Randomly entering numbers into a CC# box is attemting credit card fraud, randomly entering numbers into a CD key box is attemting game theft. Attemted stealing isn't the worst thing you can possibly do, but it is agianst the law, and I don't see any reason why Valve shouldn't be attemting to discourage it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> They did fix it, you can't do it anymore. They fixed it awhile ago. And they could have just stopped there. Not being able to do something is a pretty good deterrant. But they banned alot of the people doing it. They didn't *have* to do that, but they did. They banned them all for, what, 1 or 5 years? I forget the penalty. I think a temporary suspension for all involved would have been discouragement, but banning for a year or more sounds more like domination to me. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ITS ILLEGAL, AS IN AGAINST REAL LIFE LAWS!
Were not talking about hacking a game or something, were talking about essentially attemting to steal money from people. The offenders should thank thier lucky stars that they are only banned and haven't been reported to the FBI. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If the credit-cards were fake, just who are these "people" they tried stealing money from?
Yes, I realize it is illegeal. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Valve?
<!--QuoteBegin-Thansal+Aug 26 2004, 10:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Thansal @ Aug 26 2004, 10:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> hmm, lets see.... the credit card company? The Pepole they are paying with $$ they don't have? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> There ISN'T ONE. The people used an ALGORITHM that ALL credit card companies use. They wern't stealing from visa, or american express, otherwise there'd be alot more to it than banning accounts.
Swiftspear, they didn't steal money from valve, they stole the end product, which is alot different than cash. I'm not saying what they did was right, but I think its just ironic how everyone suddenly takes the side of the "big company" when these very same people download music and/or movies.
Acctually stealing CZ, which costs legaly costs money to get, from Valve, is exactly the same as stealing money from Valve.
[edit] I haven't downloaded anything illigally in more than 2 years. I haven't even downloaded any music in more than six months, and DLing music is perfectly legal in Canada ATM.
<!--QuoteBegin-ThE HeRo+Aug 26 2004, 07:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ThE HeRo @ Aug 26 2004, 07:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Gadzuko+Aug 26 2004, 09:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gadzuko @ Aug 26 2004, 09:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think it's just so terrible that Valve is making people pay money to try out their new game before anyone else. It's like they have salaries to pay or something, pfft. I mean, because you bought Half-Life and downloaded CS for free, you're clearly <i>entitled</i> to recieve all other versions of CS for free as well. How dare they force you to pay money for services. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Incorrect, alot of these people bought counter-strike, and didn't buy half-life. Valve originally was going to have everyone who bought CS, and CZ beta test, but the marked out the people who bought CS because they figured people would buy CZ to beta test, and try to make up for the dismal sale of CZ. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Also consider this puts a healthy restriction on the number of beta testers.
Not too many people bought CZ. This gives you a manaegable group of testers. If a few people buy CZ for CS:S beta, "Good for us", VALVe thinks.
That, and CZ owners will actually TEST the game, as opposed to your average (read: average, not all) CSer will complain, cheat, and generally be an a<span style='color:sky'>s</span>s.
I've noticed that CZ players are, for the most part, less stupid and more mature than the average CS player.
And then there's those of us with an ATi voucher. We just win.
<!--QuoteBegin-Gadzuko+Aug 26 2004, 09:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gadzuko @ Aug 26 2004, 09:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think it's just so terrible that Valve is making people pay money to try out their new game before anyone else. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> How is it any different from opening the NS3.0 beta to constellation members. If you wanted to play it earlier, you had to donate, or in the case of valve, purchase CZ. Its still in beta, its buggy and not a completed game. They are doing nothing wrong. Everyone should quit whining, I mean its counter-strike.... <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
you know, the money they make off of people who buy CZ to get into the CS:S beta is pocket change. I have to say that I really don't think money is the motivation for blocking out regular HL/CS buyers.
<!--QuoteBegin-Mantrid+Aug 26 2004, 10:40 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mantrid @ Aug 26 2004, 10:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Also consider this puts a healthy restriction on the number of beta testers.
Not too many people bought CZ. This gives you a manaegable group of testers. If a few people buy CZ for CS:S beta, "Good for us", VALVe thinks.
That, and CZ owners will actually TEST the game, as opposed to your average (read: average, not all) CSer will complain, cheat, and generally be an a<span style='color:sky'>s</span>s.
I've noticed that CZ players are, for the most part, less stupid and more mature than the average CS player.
And then there's those of us with an ATi voucher. We just win. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is true about putting a healthy restriction on the number of beta testers, which is good. I can't say much to this, because we all know that limiting the number of beta testers is good. *cough* NS "veterans" *cough*.
Sigh, I wish my 9600XT came with an ATi voucher. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> I bought it right after they stopped shipping them with vouchers.
edit to avoid double post: Have any numbers to back that up, Wheeee? It'd be interesting to look at sales figures of CZ since they annouced those owners would be beta testing.
<!--QuoteBegin-Mantrid+Aug 26 2004, 10:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mantrid @ Aug 26 2004, 10:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Wait a minute... why are we arguing about this?
People tried to screw VALVe, and they were punished. Can't we agree this is good? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Valve has already screwed its customers over repeatedly, so a good screwing is what valve needs to straighten up. Remember how they told everyone that HL2 was mostly done, summer last year, and the release date was going to be in september? Then, the source code got stolen, the thief put it all together, and the public realized that the game was no where NEAR completion, and valve was feeding us bullcrap all along. Valve then blamed the delay on the thief that stole the source code, when that really didn't delay the game any.
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
edited August 2004
I believe so. At least, I see no problem with smacktards getting kicked in the face.
And Hero, your anti-Valve vendetta aside, don't you feel warm and fuzzy seeing that attempted credit card fraud does not go unpunished? Even using the algorithm to generate a fictitious card, if the generated number is entered as a form of verification, validation, or payment is STILL fraud, even if the account number does not exist, or the number is not accepted.
Comments
It's all a marketing tactic. I don't blame a single one of the people for trying either. It's the biggest crock of sh*t i've ever seen. It doesn't matter though, I didn't get banned. I hate valve. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
OH NO! VALVe wants money!! THOSE LITTLE BASTARDS!
I have absolutly nothing against valve opening the beta to people who bought CZ. Valve doens't owe CS fans anything, the only way they ever supported valve was most likely with a purchase 5 years ago. Being a fan DOES NOT give you status! The people who paid valve for a minor upgrade to a product they get for free are valve's real supporters.
These people paid $30 for something they played for <i>five years</i> and they should be angry that they have to pay for something extra instead of getting it for free?
In other news, I agree, it's good that they're cracking down on CC fraud in games. "OMG WHAT HAPPENED TO MY UBER 1337 ACCOUNT!!!111!!!" "Well son, 11 counts of Fraud and other things." Haxor disappears. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Which was exactly what these people were doing. They don't want to pay for a crappy game. They want to beta test without being used for profit.
At any rate, even if you disagree with this, and find it rediculous that I'm taking sides with these people, that's just fine and dandy. You guys think that trying to beta test for free is stealing from valve.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Exactly.
It seriously pisses me off how ANY ONE OF YOU even THINK you have a idea about how much game design costs. Yeah, they WERE covering their losses with that. Is that wrong? Hell freaking no. Its THEIR game. Its THEIR right to sell it the way they want. Not to mention, I'm willing to bet you never even TRIED the real CZ, not deleted scenes- which is actually quite FUN if you like Counter-Strike. Get over yourself, and if you want to **** about something, make sure you've got one hell of a good reason. This definately isn't. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You know what, you're absolutely right. It is their game, and they can do whatever they please with it. You want a reason for my *****ing, yet you have no reason to be *****ing. If you've EVER downloaded or shared music/movies/games/software, ANYTHING COPYRIGHTED, what are you doing complaining? You do the same thing these people do. Anyone else notice the irony?
Gosh, it got quiet in here.
True, I agree with the credit card thing. I find it moronic if someone tried to use a credit-card, that's just asking for trouble. However, I looked up about this, and it's not fraud. The numbers they entered are no one's bank account, no real credit-card numbers. What these people did was use the credit-card number algorithm, so the servers at valve would take it. They arn't real cards, or real accounts, just fake numbers.
But what about the cd-key exploit? It works almost the same way, but there isn't any credit card use. You enter in the letters and numbers of the same algorithm, so the computer would take it. Before the server realizes its false, you crash the program. That's how it worked.
So in fact, it's really not any different.
True, I agree with the credit card thing. I find it moronic if someone tried to use a credit-card, that's just asking for trouble. However, I looked up about this, and it's not fraud. The numbers they entered are no one's bank account, no real credit-card numbers. What these people did was use the credit-card number algorithm, so the servers at valve would take it. They arn't real cards, or real accounts, just fake numbers.
But what about the cd-key exploit? It works almost the same way, but there isn't any credit card use. You enter in the letters and numbers of the same algorithm, so the computer would take it. Before the server realizes its false, you crash the program. That's how it worked.
So in fact, it's really not any different. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Randomly entering numbers into a CC# box is attemting credit card fraud, randomly entering numbers into a CD key box is attemting game theft. Attemted stealing isn't the worst thing you can possibly do, but it is agianst the law, and I don't see any reason why Valve shouldn't be attemting to discourage it.
They did fix it, you can't do it anymore. They fixed it awhile ago. And they could have just stopped there. Not being able to do something is a pretty good deterrant. But they banned alot of the people doing it. They didn't *have* to do that, but they did. They banned them all for, what, 1 or 5 years? I forget the penalty. I think a temporary suspension for all involved would have been discouragement, but banning for a year or more sounds more like domination to me.
Incorrect, alot of these people bought counter-strike, and didn't buy half-life. Valve originally was going to have everyone who bought CS, and CZ beta test, but the marked out the people who bought CS because they figured people would buy CZ to beta test, and try to make up for the dismal sale of CZ.
They did fix it, you can't do it anymore. They fixed it awhile ago. And they could have just stopped there. Not being able to do something is a pretty good deterrant. But they banned alot of the people doing it. They didn't *have* to do that, but they did. They banned them all for, what, 1 or 5 years? I forget the penalty. I think a temporary suspension for all involved would have been discouragement, but banning for a year or more sounds more like domination to me. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
ITS ILLEGAL, AS IN AGAINST REAL LIFE LAWS!
Were not talking about hacking a game or something, were talking about essentially attemting to steal money from people. The offenders should thank thier lucky stars that they are only banned and haven't been reported to the FBI.
They did fix it, you can't do it anymore. They fixed it awhile ago. And they could have just stopped there. Not being able to do something is a pretty good deterrant. But they banned alot of the people doing it. They didn't *have* to do that, but they did. They banned them all for, what, 1 or 5 years? I forget the penalty. I think a temporary suspension for all involved would have been discouragement, but banning for a year or more sounds more like domination to me. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ITS ILLEGAL, AS IN AGAINST REAL LIFE LAWS!
Were not talking about hacking a game or something, were talking about essentially attemting to steal money from people. The offenders should thank thier lucky stars that they are only banned and haven't been reported to the FBI. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If the credit-cards were fake, just who are these "people" they tried stealing money from?
Yes, I realize it is illegeal.
They did fix it, you can't do it anymore. They fixed it awhile ago. And they could have just stopped there. Not being able to do something is a pretty good deterrant. But they banned alot of the people doing it. They didn't *have* to do that, but they did. They banned them all for, what, 1 or 5 years? I forget the penalty. I think a temporary suspension for all involved would have been discouragement, but banning for a year or more sounds more like domination to me. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ITS ILLEGAL, AS IN AGAINST REAL LIFE LAWS!
Were not talking about hacking a game or something, were talking about essentially attemting to steal money from people. The offenders should thank thier lucky stars that they are only banned and haven't been reported to the FBI. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If the credit-cards were fake, just who are these "people" they tried stealing money from?
Yes, I realize it is illegeal. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Valve?
the credit card company?
The Pepole they are paying with $$ they don't have?
the credit card company?
The Pepole they are paying with $$ they don't have? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There ISN'T ONE. The people used an ALGORITHM that ALL credit card companies use. They wern't stealing from visa, or american express, otherwise there'd be alot more to it than banning accounts.
Swiftspear, they didn't steal money from valve, they stole the end product, which is alot different than cash. I'm not saying what they did was right, but I think its just ironic how everyone suddenly takes the side of the "big company" when these very same people download music and/or movies.
[edit] I haven't downloaded anything illigally in more than 2 years. I haven't even downloaded any music in more than six months, and DLing music is perfectly legal in Canada ATM.
Incorrect, alot of these people bought counter-strike, and didn't buy half-life. Valve originally was going to have everyone who bought CS, and CZ beta test, but the marked out the people who bought CS because they figured people would buy CZ to beta test, and try to make up for the dismal sale of CZ. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Also consider this puts a healthy restriction on the number of beta testers.
Not too many people bought CZ. This gives you a manaegable group of testers. If a few people buy CZ for CS:S beta, "Good for us", VALVe thinks.
That, and CZ owners will actually TEST the game, as opposed to your average (read: average, not all) CSer will complain, cheat, and generally be an a<span style='color:sky'>s</span>s.
I've noticed that CZ players are, for the most part, less stupid and more mature than the average CS player.
And then there's those of us with an ATi voucher. We just win.
How is it any different from opening the NS3.0 beta to constellation members. If you wanted to play it earlier, you had to donate, or in the case of valve, purchase CZ. Its still in beta, its buggy and not a completed game. They are doing nothing wrong. Everyone should quit whining, I mean its counter-strike.... <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Nah, it's Source. Thats what I'm there for. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Not too many people bought CZ. This gives you a manaegable group of testers. If a few people buy CZ for CS:S beta, "Good for us", VALVe thinks.
That, and CZ owners will actually TEST the game, as opposed to your average (read: average, not all) CSer will complain, cheat, and generally be an a<span style='color:sky'>s</span>s.
I've noticed that CZ players are, for the most part, less stupid and more mature than the average CS player.
And then there's those of us with an ATi voucher. We just win. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is true about putting a healthy restriction on the number of beta testers, which is good. I can't say much to this, because we all know that limiting the number of beta testers is good. *cough* NS "veterans" *cough*.
Sigh, I wish my 9600XT came with an ATi voucher. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> I bought it right after they stopped shipping them with vouchers.
edit to avoid double post: Have any numbers to back that up, Wheeee? It'd be interesting to look at sales figures of CZ since they annouced those owners would be beta testing.
People tried to screw VALVe, and they were punished. Can't we agree this is good?
People tried to screw VALVe, and they were punished. Can't we agree this is good? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Valve has already screwed its customers over repeatedly, so a good screwing is what valve needs to straighten up. Remember how they told everyone that HL2 was mostly done, summer last year, and the release date was going to be in september? Then, the source code got stolen, the thief put it all together, and the public realized that the game was no where NEAR completion, and valve was feeding us bullcrap all along. Valve then blamed the delay on the thief that stole the source code, when that really didn't delay the game any.
And Hero, your anti-Valve vendetta aside, don't you feel warm and fuzzy seeing that attempted credit card fraud does not go unpunished? Even using the algorithm to generate a fictitious card, if the generated number is entered as a form of verification, validation, or payment is STILL fraud, even if the account number does not exist, or the number is not accepted.