<!--QuoteBegin-ThE HeRo+Aug 27 2004, 12:58 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ThE HeRo @ Aug 27 2004, 12:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Mantrid+Aug 26 2004, 10:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mantrid @ Aug 26 2004, 10:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Wait a minute... why are we arguing about this?
People tried to screw VALVe, and they were punished. Can't we agree this is good? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Valve has already screwed its customers over repeatedly, so a good screwing is what valve needs to straighten up. Remember how they told everyone that HL2 was mostly done, summer last year, and the release date was going to be in september? Then, the source code got stolen, the thief put it all together, and the public realized that the game was no where NEAR completion, and valve was feeding us bullcrap all along. Valve then blamed the delay on the thief that stole the source code, when that really didn't delay the game any. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That doesn't mean it's alright for people to try and scam them. It certainly isn't helping the HL2 release date at all.
CplDavisI hunt the arctic SnonosJoin Date: 2003-01-09Member: 12097Members
<!--QuoteBegin-Talesin+Aug 26 2004, 11:00 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Aug 26 2004, 11:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I see no problem with smacktards getting kicked in the face.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Ahh, I couldnt have said it any better myself. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Talesin+Aug 26 2004, 11:00 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Aug 26 2004, 11:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I believe so. At least, I see no problem with smacktards getting kicked in the face.
And Hero, your anti-Valve vendetta aside, don't you feel warm and fuzzy seeing that attempted credit card fraud does not go unpunished? Even using the algorithm to generate a fictitious card, if the generated number is entered as a form of verification, validation, or payment is STILL fraud, even if the account number does not exist, or the number is not accepted. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, I do feel better knowing that. It's not that I'm anti-valve, I like steam, and such, but I really disagree on how they're using their customers to get more money. A closed beta test would have been fine, but they're trying to make up for their lack of sales on CZ by telling consumers they get to beta test a new game. Do you feel warm and fuzzy knowing that they're doing this? Is it right? Personally, I don't think so. I guess you could say that it's their game, and they can do whatever they want with it, but because they can, does it make it right?
But credit-card fraud is wrong, though. They should be punished, sure, but I think 1-5 year ban (can't remember what the sentence is), is a bit over-the-top.
I just feel like valve is using us. But I guess that's what happens these days.
edit: Tycho, you're right, but when valve tells the public that the game is very near completion, and etc., I wonder if that helps boost their stock? People buy their stock because their expecting a new product to boost their sales, thus increasing their stock value. That's almost to the point of fraud, too. I'm assuming that they do participate in the stock market, if not, than this is a null point.
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
<!--QuoteBegin-ThE HeRo+Aug 26 2004, 08:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ThE HeRo @ Aug 26 2004, 08:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Talesin+Aug 26 2004, 11:00 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Aug 26 2004, 11:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I believe so. At least, I see no problem with smacktards getting kicked in the face.
And Hero, your anti-Valve vendetta aside, don't you feel warm and fuzzy seeing that attempted credit card fraud does not go unpunished? Even using the algorithm to generate a fictitious card, if the generated number is entered as a form of verification, validation, or payment is STILL fraud, even if the account number does not exist, or the number is not accepted. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, I don't feel warm and fuzzy. It's not that I'm anti-valve, I like steam, and such, but I really disagree on how they're using their customers to get more money. A closed beta test would have been fine, but they're trying to make up for their lack of sales on CZ by telling consumers they get to beta test a new game. Do you feel warm and fuzzy knowing that they're doing this? Is it right? Personally, I don't think so. I guess you could say that it's their game, and they can do whatever they want with it, but because they can, does it make it right?
But credit-card fraud is wrong, though. They should be punished, sure, but I think 1-5 year ban (can't remember what the sentence is), is a bit over-the-top.
I just feel like valve is using us. But I guess that's what happens these days.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Again... my god, a company using its customers to earn money? Who'd have thought!
Personally, I'm playing around with CS:S from time to time thanks to my ATi Bundle card. Received it for free. And besideswhich... would you have more or less of a problem with Valve saying '$20 to beta-test CS:S', or handing you another game to keep for that $20, and allowing you into the beta for free? I'd have a problem with the former, personally. The latter I could deal with, if I ever had any interest in CZ, or did not have my HL2 key already. Hell, one of my friends is considering buying CZ just to beta Source with me... and would be willing to pay that even if he didn't receive the standalone game.
Short version. Yes, Valve is right for doing this. Only the insanely egocentric or overbearing would *expect* to get a new game for free, rater than being grateful that they had received so many in the past. But then, if you give a mouse a cookie...
<!--QuoteBegin-Tom[SHOTTEH]+Aug 26 2004, 12:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tom[SHOTTEH] @ Aug 26 2004, 12:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <a href='http://www.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=121263&perpage=15&pagenumber=1' target='_blank'>Now thats just funny as ****</a>
Especially when you see some of the eejiots try and worm their way out of being OWNED. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh my dear god...
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
I vote we give hero smartbombs title
Look, if you manage to pull of credit card fraud, some one is screwed (either the CC company that has to pay the other company) or the other company that just had its product stolen from them.
It is kinda like trying to walk into a store, lifting a copy of CS:CZ and then bitching that you got tossed in jail. Valve is being NICE and not prosecuting/haning over the info to the cops. cuss after all, attempted fraud is just as illegal as fruad. And you can be tracked down via IP (wich valve obviosly logs)
Personaly I havn't seen valve screw over any customers yet (exept if some of those people honestly didn't do anytihng, but I trust valve to actualy rectify those casses). What, they didn't let people that payed them $10-30 5 years ago into the CSS Beta? so friken what. Valve dosn't owe you SQUAT. You bought a game, and they are nice enugh to provide the servers that you play on, you are not owed squat. They are giving a perk to people who bought a certain game? SO WHAT? That is not screwing customers, that is giving them free stuff. Some people shelled out the $30 to get into the CSS beta? So What? They obviously thought it was worth $30 HL2 was delayed? So What? How did this screw over any customers? HL was delayed a hell of alot also, remember?
If you wana see a company screw over customers, go look at the SWG debacle going on atm.
Hero, just be glad you DIDN'T manage to hit uppon a valid CC to steal CS:CZ, other wise you would have YOUR steam account banned atm <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
That steam forum thread is pure gold, so many nubs owned. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Talesin+Aug 26 2004, 11:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Aug 26 2004, 11:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Again... my god, a company using its customers to earn money? Who'd have thought!
Personally, I'm playing around with CS:S from time to time thanks to my ATi Bundle card. Received it for free. And besideswhich... would you have more or less of a problem with Valve saying '$20 to beta-test CS:S', or handing you another game to keep for that $20, and allowing you into the beta for free? I'd have a problem with the former, personally. The latter I could deal with, if I ever had any interest in CZ, or did not have my HL2 key already. Hell, one of my friends is considering buying CZ just to beta Source with me... and would be willing to pay that even if he didn't receive the standalone game.
Short version. Yes, Valve is right for doing this. Only the insanely egocentric or overbearing would *expect* to get a new game for free, rater than being grateful that they had received so many in the past. But then, if you give a mouse a cookie... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It's obvious that business ethics have gone down the drain... whatever to make the most money.
Not all people downloaded CS for free. ALOT of them bought CS. What do these people have to be grateful for? I think a closed beta test made up of qualified applicants would have been the best, and yielded the best results.
But if some people feel like following the herd, I'm not going to be the one to stop them.
Wow Hero, think about what you're saying? A closed beta of a ported over version of the most popular online game of all time? Yeah right. They're avoiding all kinds of problems by letting CZ owners and ATI voucher holders beta test for them, as well as cyber cafes. Can you imagine how many hackers would be attempting to get into Valve at this point? CS: S would be a hot hacked commodity. Think man, think.
Also, Valve, unlike mod teams, is out there to make $$$$. If CS:S boosts sales of CZ, that means that Valve is deemed more profitable by other companies, making them more successful, meaning more employees can be hired, more great games can be made, so on and so forth.
Sure, there are some mods that are produced as an art form, that have no real $$$ desires from their game, but the reality is, Valve is not a company with a starving artist mentality. They make a quality game using/making a state of the art engine that serves as a base for other artists to express themselves with, and make incredible amounts of money serving as that base for those artists (whom they know can do better @ multiplayer than they can) as well as hopefully expanding the reputation they have for making the #1 FPS of all time.
In the same sense, Valve isn't really screwing people over. Nothing really happens on time in the physical world. They made the mistake of setting a date, they missed the date, and it made them look bad. You can cry all you want about big bad Valve "lying" to everyone (no proof of this) and acting like they should care about you, some insignificant forum goer with an opinion. Express your opinion with cold hard cash or plastic, than they will listen. I, for one, will probably get HL2 the day it comes out, without a doubt.
<!--QuoteBegin-ThE HeRo+Aug 27 2004, 03:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ThE HeRo @ Aug 27 2004, 03:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It's obvious that business ethics have gone down the drain... whatever to make the most money. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Are you a Communist or something?!?!
<!--QuoteBegin-Thansal+Aug 26 2004, 11:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Thansal @ Aug 26 2004, 11:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I vote we give hero smartbombs title
Look, if you manage to pull of credit card fraud, some one is screwed (either the CC company that has to pay the other company) or the other company that just had its product stolen from them. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> For what, the third time now? The people didn't use OTHER PEOPLE'S CREDIT CARDS! And, they did NOT pull it off. The people who tried didn't get to beta test, or get a free copy of CZ. In the end, nothing was stolen. Again, read my posts about the irony involved that people are saying "stealing = bad" when they download movies and/or music all the time.
I vote we give you the "I do not read other people's posts" title.
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
edited August 2004
And again. It doesn't need to be a valid card to still be fraud. It doesn't need to SUCCEED to be fraud. If they type in a CC number (real or not) which is not their own into a CC# box, intentionally, that is fraud from the moment they submit it.
<!--QuoteBegin-Talesin+Aug 26 2004, 11:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Aug 26 2004, 11:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And again. It doesn't need to be a valid card to still be fraud. It doesn't need to SUCCEED to be fraud. If they type in a CC number (real or not) which is not their own into a CC# box, intentionally, that is fraud from the moment they submit it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> And I didn't say it wasn't fraud. He said that credit card companies are losing money, when they're not.
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
Yes, however he said 'or'. Either the CC company OR the company you're ripping off a service from, if successful. Which this would be... you'd be stealing $20 from Valve.
TekdudeJoin Date: 2003-04-13Member: 15455Members, Constellation, Forum staff
<!--QuoteBegin-Mantrid+Aug 26 2004, 10:40 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mantrid @ Aug 26 2004, 10:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And then there's those of us with an ATi voucher. We just win. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yays us!
ATI Voucher for teh win!
Anyways, think of it if you were in their shoes. If you spend a bunch of time making a game, and sold it to people, you'd be happy. What would YOU do if you found out people were trying to steal it? I would have them hanged! Err... ban them from the network and report them to the FBI. Those idiots are lucky.
<!--QuoteBegin-ThE HeRo+Aug 26 2004, 08:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ThE HeRo @ Aug 26 2004, 08:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It's not that I'm anti-valve, I like steam, and such, but I really disagree on how they're using their customers to get more money.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Who can find the problem with this statement?
Here, let me help:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It's not that I'm anti-valve, I like steam, and such, <b>but I really disagree on how they're using their customers to get more money.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Still not there? One more time.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It's not that I'm anti-valve, I like steam, and such, <b><i><u><span style='color:red'><span style='font-size:28pt;line-height:100%'>but I really disagree on how they're using their customers to get more money.</span></span></u></i></b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So... what are customers for, then? Is repeat business some sort of horrible evil thing?
<!--QuoteBegin-ThE HeRo+Aug 26 2004, 11:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ThE HeRo @ Aug 26 2004, 11:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Talesin+Aug 26 2004, 11:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Aug 26 2004, 11:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Again... my god, a company using its customers to earn money? Who'd have thought!
Personally, I'm playing around with CS:S from time to time thanks to my ATi Bundle card. Received it for free. And besideswhich... would you have more or less of a problem with Valve saying '$20 to beta-test CS:S', or handing you another game to keep for that $20, and allowing you into the beta for free? I'd have a problem with the former, personally. The latter I could deal with, if I ever had any interest in CZ, or did not have my HL2 key already. Hell, one of my friends is considering buying CZ just to beta Source with me... and would be willing to pay that even if he didn't receive the standalone game.
Short version. Yes, Valve is right for doing this. Only the insanely egocentric or overbearing would *expect* to get a new game for free, rater than being grateful that they had received so many in the past. But then, if you give a mouse a cookie... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's obvious that business ethics have gone down the drain... whatever to make the most money.
Not all people downloaded CS for free. ALOT of them bought CS. What do these people have to be grateful for? I think a closed beta test made up of qualified applicants would have been the best, and yielded the best results.
But if some people feel like following the herd, I'm not going to be the one to stop them. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> What do they have to be greatful for? Duh I don't know, recieving a free copy of HLSP on the introduction of steam... years and years of updates... getting the game they paid for. Sure they could have saved a few bucks by just buying HL, but they chose thier box and they chose thier jewlcase, and they better live with it.
What about those with dynamic IPs ? They can't cross reference their Steam/forum usage from day-to-day. Why did the Steam servers accept valid looking CC numbers without checking their veracity ?
However, those that have been using false CC numbers or keys deserve to get banned. Permanently. It would be nice if they could resolve CD-key thefts where someone has used a keygen to steal someone else's key.
<!--QuoteBegin-ThE HeRo+Aug 26 2004, 11:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ThE HeRo @ Aug 26 2004, 11:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Thansal+Aug 26 2004, 11:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Thansal @ Aug 26 2004, 11:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I vote we give hero smartbombs title
Look, if you manage to pull of credit card fraud, some one is screwed (either the CC company that has to pay the other company) or the other company that just had its product stolen from them. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> For what, the third time now? The people didn't use OTHER PEOPLE'S CREDIT CARDS! And, they did NOT pull it off. The people who tried didn't get to beta test, or get a free copy of CZ. In the end, nothing was stolen. Again, read my posts about the irony involved that people are saying "stealing = bad" when they download movies and/or music all the time.
I vote we give you the "I do not read other people's posts" title. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I suggest you go rob a bank and then explain to the FBI how this is just like downloading music and its not really stealing because they caught you.
<!--QuoteBegin-_Creep_+Aug 27 2004, 01:53 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (_Creep_ @ Aug 27 2004, 01:53 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Good for Valve.
What about those with dynamic IPs ? They can't cross reference their Steam/forum usage from day-to-day. Why did the Steam servers accept valid looking CC numbers without checking their veracity ?
However, those that have been using false CC numbers or keys deserve to get banned. Permanently. It would be nice if they could resolve CD-key thefts where someone has used a keygen to steal someone else's key. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It wouldn't matter, TRYING to hack a credit card number is attempted theft, and fraud. What if they accidentally hit someone reals number? then they would be stealing from them rather than Valve. One way or another, theft is theft.
Some of this from Valve is fishy, I don't think its all to do with as they say "Stolen or Fake Credit Cards". If that was true many people posting about the disabling of their accounts would have had a nice visit from the fraud squad by now. Good to Valve that caught some people cheating the system, but as usual the good guys get caught up in something which is completely no fault of their own.
WTH MAN?! I CANT COME TO YOUR GRADUATION PARTY AND EAT YOUR CAEKES AND PIE FOR FREE JUST BECAUSE IM NOT A FAMILY MEMBER?! WTH MAN YOU GREEDY SELFISH MAGGOT
<!--QuoteBegin--Lurker-+Aug 27 2004, 12:37 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-Lurker- @ Aug 27 2004, 12:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> WTH MAN?! I CANT COME TO YOUR GRADUATION PARTY AND EAT YOUR CAEKES AND PIE FOR FREE JUST BECAUSE IM NOT A FAMILY MEMBER?! WTH MAN YOU GREEDY SELFISH MAGGOT <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> ...k
They deserve to be banned, and it's not like HL costs so much anymore anyways. If you make a fuz about losing your account on a now 1 buck game because you were trying to illegaly contain CZ/CS-S then you are a moron.
Comments
People tried to screw VALVe, and they were punished. Can't we agree this is good? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Valve has already screwed its customers over repeatedly, so a good screwing is what valve needs to straighten up. Remember how they told everyone that HL2 was mostly done, summer last year, and the release date was going to be in september? Then, the source code got stolen, the thief put it all together, and the public realized that the game was no where NEAR completion, and valve was feeding us bullcrap all along. Valve then blamed the delay on the thief that stole the source code, when that really didn't delay the game any. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That doesn't mean it's alright for people to try and scam them. It certainly isn't helping the HL2 release date at all.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ahh, I couldnt have said it any better myself. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
And Hero, your anti-Valve vendetta aside, don't you feel warm and fuzzy seeing that attempted credit card fraud does not go unpunished? Even using the algorithm to generate a fictitious card, if the generated number is entered as a form of verification, validation, or payment is STILL fraud, even if the account number does not exist, or the number is not accepted. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, I do feel better knowing that. It's not that I'm anti-valve, I like steam, and such, but I really disagree on how they're using their customers to get more money. A closed beta test would have been fine, but they're trying to make up for their lack of sales on CZ by telling consumers they get to beta test a new game. Do you feel warm and fuzzy knowing that they're doing this? Is it right? Personally, I don't think so. I guess you could say that it's their game, and they can do whatever they want with it, but because they can, does it make it right?
But credit-card fraud is wrong, though. They should be punished, sure, but I think 1-5 year ban (can't remember what the sentence is), is a bit over-the-top.
I just feel like valve is using us. But I guess that's what happens these days.
edit: Tycho, you're right, but when valve tells the public that the game is very near completion, and etc., I wonder if that helps boost their stock? People buy their stock because their expecting a new product to boost their sales, thus increasing their stock value. That's almost to the point of fraud, too. I'm assuming that they do participate in the stock market, if not, than this is a null point.
And Hero, your anti-Valve vendetta aside, don't you feel warm and fuzzy seeing that attempted credit card fraud does not go unpunished? Even using the algorithm to generate a fictitious card, if the generated number is entered as a form of verification, validation, or payment is STILL fraud, even if the account number does not exist, or the number is not accepted. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, I don't feel warm and fuzzy. It's not that I'm anti-valve, I like steam, and such, but I really disagree on how they're using their customers to get more money. A closed beta test would have been fine, but they're trying to make up for their lack of sales on CZ by telling consumers they get to beta test a new game. Do you feel warm and fuzzy knowing that they're doing this? Is it right? Personally, I don't think so. I guess you could say that it's their game, and they can do whatever they want with it, but because they can, does it make it right?
But credit-card fraud is wrong, though. They should be punished, sure, but I think 1-5 year ban (can't remember what the sentence is), is a bit over-the-top.
I just feel like valve is using us. But I guess that's what happens these days.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again... my god, a company using its customers to earn money? Who'd have thought!
Personally, I'm playing around with CS:S from time to time thanks to my ATi Bundle card. Received it for free. And besideswhich... would you have more or less of a problem with Valve saying '$20 to beta-test CS:S', or handing you another game to keep for that $20, and allowing you into the beta for free?
I'd have a problem with the former, personally. The latter I could deal with, if I ever had any interest in CZ, or did not have my HL2 key already. Hell, one of my friends is considering buying CZ just to beta Source with me... and would be willing to pay that even if he didn't receive the standalone game.
Short version. Yes, Valve is right for doing this. Only the insanely egocentric or overbearing would *expect* to get a new game for free, rater than being grateful that they had received so many in the past.
But then, if you give a mouse a cookie...
Especially when you see some of the eejiots try and worm their way out of being OWNED. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh my dear god...
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Look, if you manage to pull of credit card fraud, some one is screwed (either the CC company that has to pay the other company) or the other company that just had its product stolen from them.
It is kinda like trying to walk into a store, lifting a copy of CS:CZ and then bitching that you got tossed in jail. Valve is being NICE and not prosecuting/haning over the info to the cops. cuss after all, attempted fraud is just as illegal as fruad. And you can be tracked down via IP (wich valve obviosly logs)
Personaly I havn't seen valve screw over any customers yet (exept if some of those people honestly didn't do anytihng, but I trust valve to actualy rectify those casses).
What, they didn't let people that payed them $10-30 5 years ago into the CSS Beta? so friken what. Valve dosn't owe you SQUAT. You bought a game, and they are nice enugh to provide the servers that you play on, you are not owed squat.
They are giving a perk to people who bought a certain game? SO WHAT? That is not screwing customers, that is giving them free stuff.
Some people shelled out the $30 to get into the CSS beta? So What? They obviously thought it was worth $30
HL2 was delayed? So What? How did this screw over any customers? HL was delayed a hell of alot also, remember?
If you wana see a company screw over customers, go look at the SWG debacle going on atm.
Hero, just be glad you DIDN'T manage to hit uppon a valid CC to steal CS:CZ, other wise you would have YOUR steam account banned atm <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I'd hate for them to try and make some money-.-
CS went commercial long ago anyway....
That steam forum thread is pure gold, so many nubs owned. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Personally, I'm playing around with CS:S from time to time thanks to my ATi Bundle card. Received it for free. And besideswhich... would you have more or less of a problem with Valve saying '$20 to beta-test CS:S', or handing you another game to keep for that $20, and allowing you into the beta for free?
I'd have a problem with the former, personally. The latter I could deal with, if I ever had any interest in CZ, or did not have my HL2 key already. Hell, one of my friends is considering buying CZ just to beta Source with me... and would be willing to pay that even if he didn't receive the standalone game.
Short version. Yes, Valve is right for doing this. Only the insanely egocentric or overbearing would *expect* to get a new game for free, rater than being grateful that they had received so many in the past.
But then, if you give a mouse a cookie... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's obvious that business ethics have gone down the drain... whatever to make the most money.
Not all people downloaded CS for free. ALOT of them bought CS. What do these people have to be grateful for? I think a closed beta test made up of qualified applicants would have been the best, and yielded the best results.
But if some people feel like following the herd, I'm not going to be the one to stop them.
Also, Valve, unlike mod teams, is out there to make $$$$. If CS:S boosts sales of CZ, that means that Valve is deemed more profitable by other companies, making them more successful, meaning more employees can be hired, more great games can be made, so on and so forth.
Sure, there are some mods that are produced as an art form, that have no real $$$ desires from their game, but the reality is, Valve is not a company with a starving artist mentality. They make a quality game using/making a state of the art engine that serves as a base for other artists to express themselves with, and make incredible amounts of money serving as that base for those artists (whom they know can do better @ multiplayer than they can) as well as hopefully expanding the reputation they have for making the #1 FPS of all time.
In the same sense, Valve isn't really screwing people over. Nothing really happens on time in the physical world. They made the mistake of setting a date, they missed the date, and it made them look bad. You can cry all you want about big bad Valve "lying" to everyone (no proof of this) and acting like they should care about you, some insignificant forum goer with an opinion. Express your opinion with cold hard cash or plastic, than they will listen. I, for one, will probably get HL2 the day it comes out, without a doubt.
Are you a Communist or something?!?!
Look, if you manage to pull of credit card fraud, some one is screwed (either the CC company that has to pay the other company) or the other company that just had its product stolen from them. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
For what, the third time now? The people didn't use OTHER PEOPLE'S CREDIT CARDS! And, they did NOT pull it off. The people who tried didn't get to beta test, or get a free copy of CZ. In the end, nothing was stolen. Again, read my posts about the irony involved that people are saying "stealing = bad" when they download movies and/or music all the time.
I vote we give you the "I do not read other people's posts" title.
And I didn't say it wasn't fraud. He said that credit card companies are losing money, when they're not.
Yays us!
ATI Voucher for teh win!
Anyways, think of it if you were in their shoes. If you spend a bunch of time making a game, and sold it to people, you'd be happy. What would YOU do if you found out people were trying to steal it? I would have them hanged! Err... ban them from the network and report them to the FBI. Those idiots are lucky.
Who can find the problem with this statement?
Here, let me help:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It's not that I'm anti-valve, I like steam, and such, <b>but I really disagree on how they're using their customers to get more money.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Still not there? One more time.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It's not that I'm anti-valve, I like steam, and such, <b><i><u><span style='color:red'><span style='font-size:28pt;line-height:100%'>but I really disagree on how they're using their customers to get more money.</span></span></u></i></b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So... what are customers for, then? Is repeat business some sort of horrible evil thing?
Personally, I'm playing around with CS:S from time to time thanks to my ATi Bundle card. Received it for free. And besideswhich... would you have more or less of a problem with Valve saying '$20 to beta-test CS:S', or handing you another game to keep for that $20, and allowing you into the beta for free?
I'd have a problem with the former, personally. The latter I could deal with, if I ever had any interest in CZ, or did not have my HL2 key already. Hell, one of my friends is considering buying CZ just to beta Source with me... and would be willing to pay that even if he didn't receive the standalone game.
Short version. Yes, Valve is right for doing this. Only the insanely egocentric or overbearing would *expect* to get a new game for free, rater than being grateful that they had received so many in the past.
But then, if you give a mouse a cookie... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's obvious that business ethics have gone down the drain... whatever to make the most money.
Not all people downloaded CS for free. ALOT of them bought CS. What do these people have to be grateful for? I think a closed beta test made up of qualified applicants would have been the best, and yielded the best results.
But if some people feel like following the herd, I'm not going to be the one to stop them. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
What do they have to be greatful for? Duh I don't know, recieving a free copy of HLSP on the introduction of steam... years and years of updates... getting the game they paid for. Sure they could have saved a few bucks by just buying HL, but they chose thier box and they chose thier jewlcase, and they better live with it.
What about those with dynamic IPs ? They can't cross reference their Steam/forum usage from day-to-day. Why did the Steam servers accept valid looking CC numbers without checking their veracity ?
However, those that have been using false CC numbers or keys deserve to get banned. Permanently. It would be nice if they could resolve CD-key thefts where someone has used a keygen to steal someone else's key.
more...great times.
Look, if you manage to pull of credit card fraud, some one is screwed (either the CC company that has to pay the other company) or the other company that just had its product stolen from them. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For what, the third time now? The people didn't use OTHER PEOPLE'S CREDIT CARDS! And, they did NOT pull it off. The people who tried didn't get to beta test, or get a free copy of CZ. In the end, nothing was stolen. Again, read my posts about the irony involved that people are saying "stealing = bad" when they download movies and/or music all the time.
I vote we give you the "I do not read other people's posts" title. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I suggest you go rob a bank and then explain to the FBI how this is just like downloading music and its not really stealing because they caught you.
PS credit card fraud is bad.
What about those with dynamic IPs ? They can't cross reference their Steam/forum usage from day-to-day. Why did the Steam servers accept valid looking CC numbers without checking their veracity ?
However, those that have been using false CC numbers or keys deserve to get banned. Permanently. It would be nice if they could resolve CD-key thefts where someone has used a keygen to steal someone else's key. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It wouldn't matter, TRYING to hack a credit card number is attempted theft, and fraud. What if they accidentally hit someone reals number? then they would be stealing from them rather than Valve. One way or another, theft is theft.
...k
+1?
They deserve to be banned, and it's not like HL costs so much anymore anyways. If you make a fuz about losing your account on a now 1 buck game because you were trying to illegaly contain CZ/CS-S then you are a moron.