Question Regarding Focus

NGE · August 2004

Ok I was wrong focus sucks, I just played the game for my first time today, heaven freaking forbid anyone use a little finesse while playing.

If you don't have 2 hives by the time you've got an onos you're probably screwed up the bum anyways. And while I personnally would recommend movements over sensory for hive 2 overall, focus is still perhaps one of the most superior upgrades in the game. Unless, you're some leg humping retard who doesn't know how the hell to use a fade or skulk (really easy with leap), in which case, yes focus sucks. But a garunteed kill in 2 hits against anything other than heavy armor with a fade is pretty powerful in my book.

RiotingNerd · August 2004

<span style='color:white'>Be nice.</span>

The reason aliens get MCs second is because they are almost a requirement for holding down 2 hives. Whats that? Phase gate beside hive going up, no mcs, and there was just a fake hit on the other hive? GG aliens nice playing with you.

PS once I have a dc upgrade, I'd much rather have focus than any mc upgrade. But in regular ns that just isnt gonna happen, and in co focus costs 2 points, so i can get 2 other upgrades first.

You lose, thanks for playing.

[Edit] Oh wait im also a vet so i guess my opinion is automatically discarded

SDJason · August 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-PK- @ Aug 28 2004, 11:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> If you want it to be normal fire rate with twice the damage, how about it also makes you take twice as damage that way it promotes sneeking upto a marine, instead of rushing him with your regen+focus /w normal bite speed knowing you simpley wont die.. then wait and heal.. and do it again.

I'm assuming that you supporting such a godly overpower means that you have either 1) never played on marines, or 2) you have played on marines but like aliens 90% of the time. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
OK.... The topic suggests a discussion... and in every post ive posted ive left all my arguments open and even suggested at several points that what im suggesting MAY BE overpowered...

MY ONLY argument with focus as is now, is that it has a drawback, e.g. Half attack speed, that NO OTHER ALIEN UPGRADE has... NONE of them...

I'm saying modify focus to do its job without a drawback, AND make it balanced...

Your suggestion, however does just what i wanted this topic to do... suggests an alternative, however the drawback is still there, which is what im trying to eliminate....

That is why i created this topic..

REGULAR NS, NOT COMBAT...

So instead of accusing me of never playing the game or what not, read what i have written.. i want to discuss OTHER options, not create a thread about why its ok as is/ overpowered/ whatever...

I just want focus to conform to the "upgrade" definition (no drawbacks) and still be balanced (and counterable) and advantageous to an alien..

So can we discuss options??

~Jason

Rapier7 · August 2004

<span style='color:white'>Be nice.</span>

Sensory chambers and their abilities are NOT used (until the last hive) because defense and movement chambers are FAR superior in terms of general usefulness.

You can buff focus, or buff the SC, just make it so that it is somewhat viable as a first or second hive chamber choice.

Dantemss · August 2004

As long as base breaking is concerned, sensory and movement will never be viable. That's why people use DMS. Also sensory has many counters and while movement doesn't have any, it's the chamber with the least advantages at one hive.

WarningForever · August 2004

With a bit of teamwork, any (non-gorge) focus alien can kill a marine in one hit.

It's especially nice on CO, where marines often have no armor but 100 hp with resupply. Also, marines can't armory back their armor.

Simply have a <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif' /> gas a bunch of <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' />
Then have any alien bite said <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /> with focus

Focus> Anything without armor 1

Diablo_fx · August 2004

I see focus as an upgrade because i only use it with fades and lerks. And it works wonders with fades and lerks countering any armor upgrade.

AlienCow · August 2004

I wouldnt mind seeing focus affect all weapons, just to see how much of a difference it would make.

But anyway. Why does it really matter that it has a drawback? An upgrade obviously has to consist of an improvement. Focus does.

"To exchange a possession for one of greater value or quality; trade up."

Being able to kill a Marine in one bite, at least initially, is of greater value than killing a Marine in two bites. The "trade up" is the loss of quick biting.

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' />

MamboKing · August 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dantemss @ Aug 28 2004, 09:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> As long as base breaking is concerned, sensory and movement will never be viable. That's why people use DMS. Also sensory has many counters and while movement doesn't have any, it's the chamber with the least advantages at one hive.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Motion Tracking counters movement. (or one of the movement abilities, at least.)

Necrosis · August 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
setback that it wasn't a different choice, Focus has an *additional* setback on top of this
</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

I don't count not having cloaking/SoF to be a setback. Cloaking is largely useless since there's SCs everywhere. SoF is pointless because you've a rather handy minimap and 2 ears. Focus at least has a bit of use, its what most people with aggressive alien classes choose.

Second, you only see DMS because its the easiest and most stable on pubs. Focus requires a bit of wit to use - you have to know how to ambush. In return you get 1 hit kills which is more than enough to give you res for early higher aliens. Assuming a competent team with one decent player hoarding for hive from game start, SC first can lead to a VERY quick 2nd hive, and it forces marines to really rush those armour upgrades or HA. Of course they COULD rush the hive but then they've to somehow get past a pile of one hit kill skulks.

2nd hive then brings MS or DC. MS brings silence which is a nice counterpart to focus - especially when most players rely on their EARS. It brings celerity, creating a celer/focus Fade who can easily run about the map. SoF/Adren lerks spore spamming. DCs hand out cara/focus aliens to counter early weapon upgrades. Regen if you happen to be an onos.

On a competent team either is acceptable. On pubs where half the team is a bunch of bitespam noobs you have to stick with DMS.

AlienCow · August 2004

Actually I go for SoF when sensory is available when I'm a lerk ^^

When sporing from vents and around corridors, you can easily aim at enemies without having to look around and get shot at.

But yes, cloaking is generally useless. Seeing as the SCs are usually got with the third hive, the aliens will have control of most of the map. Meaning they can be put everywhere. Or they dont even bother coz the 'Rines are cornered.

But anyway.

<span style='color:white'>Please refrain from useless color useage.</span>

SDJason · August 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AlienCow! @ Aug 29 2004, 07:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
But anyway. Why does it really matter that it has a drawback? An upgrade obviously has to consist of an improvement. Focus does.
 </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
The ONLY reason it matters is because no other alien upgrade consists of a drawback......

Sure focus is still an upgrade... but why the drawback....

if its for balance reasons... balance it without the drawback.....

~Jason

IBT · August 2004

actually focus is good the way it is, it enables you to pick off single marines helplessly easly, (keep in mind to get close quickly its best to trapcamp) its moreover a taunt like the nod voice saying "Inferior tactics detected."

kavasa · August 2004

Jason - your definition of upgrade is wack, chile. An upgrade makes the upgradee deadlier. Focus does that. And there's no reason to use anything other than doubled cooldown time to balance it - it's the simplest, most logical, easiest to implement balance for focus that exists.

Give it up.

Zekal · August 2004

IMHO, I think it should only increase damage a little bit but not affect ROF.

SmoodCroozn · August 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NGE @ Aug 28 2004, 10:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Focus has to be the single strongest alien upgrade in the game, and it's pretty much good right now.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Regen, regen, and guess what regen. I'm pretty sure if any fade or onos had an option out of the 9, it would definitely be regen. It is just a staple of any high lifeform.

im_lost · August 2004

Regen <u>does</u> have a drawback. It makes noise while it is working. If you are low on health, the noise can give you away and lead to your death. Redemption can take you out of a fight earlier than you want to leave (assuming it actually works). So, your statement that focus is the only upgrade with drawbacks is incorrect.

IBT · August 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SmoodCroozn @ Aug 30 2004, 12:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NGE @ Aug 28 2004, 10:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Focus has to be the single strongest alien upgrade in the game, and it's pretty much good right now. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Regen, regen, and guess what regen. I'm pretty sure if any fade or onos had an option out of the 9, it would definitely be regen. It is just a staple of any high lifeform.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
sigh, with ppl like this everywhere its really no wonder we have DMS on our hands.
i would choose cloaking over regen anyday.

Ripur · August 2004

i'm a silence man myself, but i stay skulk 90% of the game.

Align · August 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (IBT @ Aug 30 2004, 01:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SmoodCroozn @ Aug 30 2004, 12:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NGE @ Aug 28 2004, 10:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Focus has to be the single strongest alien upgrade in the game, and it's pretty much good right now. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Regen, regen, and guess what regen. I'm pretty sure if any fade or onos had an option out of the 9, it would definitely be regen. It is just a staple of any high lifeform. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
sigh, with ppl like this everywhere its really no wonder we have DMS on our hands.
i would choose cloaking over regen anyday.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
As a fade or onos?
I don't think I want you on my team...

Minstrel_Knight · August 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Align @ Aug 30 2004, 09:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (IBT @ Aug 30 2004, 01:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SmoodCroozn @ Aug 30 2004, 12:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NGE @ Aug 28 2004, 10:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Focus has to be the single strongest alien upgrade in the game, and it's pretty much good right now. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Regen, regen, and guess what regen. I'm pretty sure if any fade or onos had an option out of the 9, it would definitely be regen. It is just a staple of any high lifeform. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
sigh, with ppl like this everywhere its really no wonder we have DMS on our hands.
i would choose cloaking over regen anyday. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
As a fade or onos?
I don't think I want you on my team...  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Seconded. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' />

Holymight · August 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Align @ Aug 30 2004, 09:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (IBT @ Aug 30 2004, 01:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SmoodCroozn @ Aug 30 2004, 12:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NGE @ Aug 28 2004, 10:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Focus has to be the single strongest alien upgrade in the game, and it's pretty much good right now. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Regen, regen, and guess what regen. I'm pretty sure if any fade or onos had an option out of the 9, it would definitely be regen. It is just a staple of any high lifeform. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
sigh, with ppl like this everywhere its really no wonder we have DMS on our hands.
i would choose cloaking over regen anyday. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
As a fade or onos?
I don't think I want you on my team...  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
seconded

mirrodin · August 2004

An increasing damage scale and decreased cooldown would be nice. As it is I don't find Focus overpowered, unless a gorge drops sens first (rare) and everyone works together (even rarer on pubs) Focus skulks start getting owned after armour 1 and weapon 1. And of course shotties are still death for one hive skulks.

Just decrease the cooldown a little (time between attacks for people who dont understand certain words). Maybe:

1 Sens: 50% slower
2 Sens: 40% slower
3 Sens: 30~35% slower

BTW, double posting kills baby gorges.
EDIT: Disregard that...

im_lost · August 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Focus skulks start getting owned after armour 1 and weapon 1.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Weapon 1 does not affect a marine's ability to kill a skulk with a lmg. It takes 9 shots either way.

Lord_Chambers · August 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (mirrodin @ Aug 30 2004, 05:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> 1 Sens: 50% slower
2 Sens: 40% slower
3 Sens: 30~35% slower  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
What is the current model for inreases in focus' benefit with 1, 2, and 3 sensory chambers?

Same question for scent of fear.

Bluee · August 2004

Focus needs to be a bit more buffed. The game is plenty marine sided anyways.

Nemesis_Zero · August 2004

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't it make more sense as an alien buff to bring the other upgrades a little more up to speed instead of extending arguably one of the most powerful upgrades there already are even further? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' />

Rapier7 · August 2004

Err, which is the arguably most powerful upgrade?

Nemesis_Zero · August 2004

I'll leave that discussion up to you and Flayra. Being a predominant (and yet still sucky) Skulk, I'll take Focus over pretty much anything else (though I had a soft spot for celerity since day one), but I'll take the better player's word for Regen's effectiviness with the higher lifeforms.
Thankfully, my position does not entail decisions over balance changes, I'd be squarely out of my depth <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' />

NGE · August 2004

Regen is only effective because running back to the hive isn't viable always.

For in the moment combat, I'd take focus in a heart-beat.

Question Regarding Focus

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