[WIP] ns_solace
Crispy
Jaded GD Join Date: 2004-08-22 Member: 30793Members, Constellation
Jaded GD Join Date: 2004-08-22 Member: 30793Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Pics to be updated according to progress</div> <span style='color:white'>[Edited April 15, 2005]</span>
<span style='color:orange'>The floorplan below will have to undergo serious changes to balance it, but almost all of the areas will be kept (but reshuffled). The current area being worked on is the Gospel Generator Hive @ 60% complete. Still to do in this area are the infestation, which should reduce r_speeds as it swallows up half of the faces on two of the generators; the two vent exits from the hive, one of which will be accessible by walking Marines once welded; the extension of the vent from one of the exits within the hiveroom; a platform for Marines to shoot at the Hive from distance and height (to balance out all of the healspots, lerk perches, dark areas etc. that would make this Hive a bit of an Alien paradise); and finally a bit of work on the Generators themselves, such as a func_conveyor and some dynamic lighting.</span>
As I've got past 50% of the <i>floorplan</i> build (ie box corridors etc.) I feel I'm able to start a WIP thread to get feedback and just show you what I've been doing. Below is the plan of things to come.
<img src='http://nomad.dssghq.net/images/pics/kob/kobplan.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
* Any areas drawn freeform are as of yet not started.
* Blue lines give you a <i>rough</i> ida of the corridor and room system.
* The blue dotted line is a possible corridor I may add.
* Pink dotted lines are vents (none of which are started).
* The green question mark is where there's space for a room, which may make it a bit less boring getting to the Sewage Control Hive.
* The unlabelled green section is the Habitat Ring.
* The yellow hazard area denotes a lift (that's elevator for you Yanks <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->)
* The green hazard line denotes a weldable door.
* The red dots (you guessed it!) are RTs, however there seem to be 11, which I'll be reducing. Gimme feedback on which ones should stay.
* Pressure Control and the Pump Station are basically siege rooms as glorified themed corridors. Hopefully they won't be big enough for farmage, so tough! However there's currently no siege location for Generator Hive, I'll need to work on that...
There are also a few screenies of some of my finished (except the lighting) areas. The first is the corridor linking the MarineStart with the Canteen, Cargo Bay and leading onto another corridor towards the Airlock.
Also shown are the Service Shafts linking a corridor beside the Canteen (bottom of map but not labelled!) and SatCom
<img src='http://nomad.dssghq.net/images/pics/kob/kob4.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
It's a bit <i>Star Destroyer</i> but don't worry the rest of the level won't be this clean <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<img src='http://nomad.dssghq.net/images/pics/kob/kob5.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Here's some non onos-friendly Service Shafts that should slow down the Marine's progress towards one of the Hives early on in the game.
<img src='http://nomad.dssghq.net/images/pics/kob/kob1.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Up and to the left, looking back onto the ladder...
<img src='http://nomad.dssghq.net/images/pics/kob/kob3.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
I need to reallign the blue triangles in some cases, and I'm thinking about changing the texture on these and on the grey (and overstretched) shaft and ladder exit trims.
<img src='http://nomad.dssghq.net/images/pics/kob/kob2.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Sorry about the lack of lighting, I'm pretty much doing that last so I can control the overall look of the level more easily. But those fans of texture lighting will be pleased to know I'll be experimenting with this technique, hopefully to give some original and interesting effects!
<span style='color:orange'>The floorplan below will have to undergo serious changes to balance it, but almost all of the areas will be kept (but reshuffled). The current area being worked on is the Gospel Generator Hive @ 60% complete. Still to do in this area are the infestation, which should reduce r_speeds as it swallows up half of the faces on two of the generators; the two vent exits from the hive, one of which will be accessible by walking Marines once welded; the extension of the vent from one of the exits within the hiveroom; a platform for Marines to shoot at the Hive from distance and height (to balance out all of the healspots, lerk perches, dark areas etc. that would make this Hive a bit of an Alien paradise); and finally a bit of work on the Generators themselves, such as a func_conveyor and some dynamic lighting.</span>
As I've got past 50% of the <i>floorplan</i> build (ie box corridors etc.) I feel I'm able to start a WIP thread to get feedback and just show you what I've been doing. Below is the plan of things to come.
<img src='http://nomad.dssghq.net/images/pics/kob/kobplan.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
* Any areas drawn freeform are as of yet not started.
* Blue lines give you a <i>rough</i> ida of the corridor and room system.
* The blue dotted line is a possible corridor I may add.
* Pink dotted lines are vents (none of which are started).
* The green question mark is where there's space for a room, which may make it a bit less boring getting to the Sewage Control Hive.
* The unlabelled green section is the Habitat Ring.
* The yellow hazard area denotes a lift (that's elevator for you Yanks <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->)
* The green hazard line denotes a weldable door.
* The red dots (you guessed it!) are RTs, however there seem to be 11, which I'll be reducing. Gimme feedback on which ones should stay.
* Pressure Control and the Pump Station are basically siege rooms as glorified themed corridors. Hopefully they won't be big enough for farmage, so tough! However there's currently no siege location for Generator Hive, I'll need to work on that...
There are also a few screenies of some of my finished (except the lighting) areas. The first is the corridor linking the MarineStart with the Canteen, Cargo Bay and leading onto another corridor towards the Airlock.
Also shown are the Service Shafts linking a corridor beside the Canteen (bottom of map but not labelled!) and SatCom
<img src='http://nomad.dssghq.net/images/pics/kob/kob4.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
It's a bit <i>Star Destroyer</i> but don't worry the rest of the level won't be this clean <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<img src='http://nomad.dssghq.net/images/pics/kob/kob5.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Here's some non onos-friendly Service Shafts that should slow down the Marine's progress towards one of the Hives early on in the game.
<img src='http://nomad.dssghq.net/images/pics/kob/kob1.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Up and to the left, looking back onto the ladder...
<img src='http://nomad.dssghq.net/images/pics/kob/kob3.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
I need to reallign the blue triangles in some cases, and I'm thinking about changing the texture on these and on the grey (and overstretched) shaft and ladder exit trims.
<img src='http://nomad.dssghq.net/images/pics/kob/kob2.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Sorry about the lack of lighting, I'm pretty much doing that last so I can control the overall look of the level more easily. But those fans of texture lighting will be pleased to know I'll be experimenting with this technique, hopefully to give some original and interesting effects!
Comments
about the RT's:
1. the weldable should be replaced with a weldable siege position (i hate weldable rt's)
2. remove solar control or airlock rt's, that will give you 9 rt's :]
about the screenshots:
i know they are only from the camera view but i think the corridors are too small and seem to be very dense :o make them wider and higher, unless if you can put a info_player_start entity for referance about size :O
I've put that weldable RT there because Marines have plenty of RTs near to them and Sewage needs some RTs next to it. When marines start wanting bigger and better things they can take that RT but as it's not exactly the nearest one I doubt they'll care about having to weld it early in the game. In addition to that there are a few things on the plan requiring welders, so on this map they probably won't care about sending a Rambo out to get that RT. If that, and Airlock were removed anyone starting in that Hive would soon hate the map, which isn't the angle I was going for! I may remove the Cargo Storage RT from my planning but then again I don't want to screw the Marines over on this map...
As for the corridors, the Service Shafts are supposed to be small, but then again fades may well not fit inside them... which would be annoying, I should be able to resize them without too much trouble. (+ they were one of the first areas I did on the map and I made them out of far too many brushes, so they need working on).
I've just tested the 'plaspanel' corridors quickly with my Onos model and they are over 104' high and allow at least one-way movement for WarCows! I will check for two-way movement a bit later when I can be arsed...
I've also just had a revelation concerning the Cargo Bay. I initially wanted to have MS overlooking a vast Bay with cranes and big doors etc. but r-speeds would take over and eat the map. I still wanted to keep the big area, so I kept it on the plan. Now Cargo will be unaccessible bar a corridor-type route through it. This means you'll get more idea about the structure of the facility* without having to deal with the silly r_speeds that you'd get having a battle there (I was always worried that Aliens would build a huge lame to siege the Marines with, seeing how close it is to MS). There are also a few more areas like this (take a look at the vent from the Habitat Ring going over two locked and otherwise inaccessible sleeping/living quarters).
* This map was actually originally designed as a Marine Ship docking with an 'abandoned' vessel of some sort (research, scouting, supply, diplomatic). I wanted to have two airlocks that would look onto eachother so you'd see someone crossing in the other one (knowing they were on the other side of the level and you couldn't do anything about it!). The scenario was that a team had boarded the vessel to investigate and hadn't reported in since their departure. The Marine commander has become inscreasingly worried when half of the ship's power goes down! As Marines you have been mobilised to both search for your scouting party and to find out what has suddenly started draining power from your ship! As Aliens you either start on the unidentified vessel or on the Marine ship in the unpowered of their two Generators. As Marines make their way through their own ship they find more and more systems are down, lights are dim and in places almost non-existant. That is until they shotgun rush the Alien hive end-of-story.
Anyway, for some reason I thought that it might be difficult to ensure that the Hive on the Marine ship would be as equally connected to the rest of the map as the other two. So this idea morphed into what I have now. However, if anyone wants to use this idea to make a super-cool map then please do! I'd enjoy seeing how it might turn out!
This map = Star Wars x The Cube
i think it will make it alot better since sewege hive, in the current design is too close to MS making it a lockdown in the first minute, will get further away. you should try make the distance from the MS the same+- for all hives i believe.
now, another idea, which now that i think about it , is the best... is to combine airlock and cargo and make it all together far from MS.
and i still think solar panel RT should be removed.
Yeah I thought that too. Looks cool tho. Spankin klean!
Anyways I just want to remind you as all mappers of a new concept of mine:
/me looks at my sig
High entropy is good. The more choices you have and things you can do the more fun and the faster the gameplay will run. (Not to mention high entropy can really screw over marine turtles from forming) So when looking though you map. Take any spot and pick some otehr locations people will be going to from here and think how many paths from point A to B are there. If it's a lot, then you have high entropy at this spot. Make a network of pipes and/or vents skulks and jetpacks can use to get all over the map fast.
ie: choke points and crossing rooms are areas of high entropy; long linear hallways and dead ends are low entropy.
There are always creative way to increase entropy though other means to.
ie: multi-floor elevators, func_weldables that can open new paths and close others, buttons that do things, etc.
Atmosphere, architecture, entropy, game flow design, ambient noises, use of env_sound and env_glow, balances... these are all good things to consider when making maps.
I have recently created a section of my map bearing more than a passing resemblance to the platform in Star Wars where it is revealed to Luke that Darth Vader is his father. So I was thinking about giving this area a name which pays homage to my 'inspiration' (or rather, credits the original that I ripped off, depending on your standpoint).
I looked up Nooooo! in Ancient Greek but thought that <i>ochi</i> didn't sound too catchy! (I already knew that it's <i>minime!</i> in Latin so I may stick with this). Then I looked at a translation for father... It came back with <i>pater</i> in Latin, <i>patir</i> in Ancient Greek and <b><i>vader</b></i> in Dutch!
I then searched for discussions on the origins of the title: <b>Darth Vader</b> and found many theories that <b>Darth</b> meant <i>dark</i>, thus giving a title of "Dark Father".
I then went downstairs to reveal this discovery to my mum, who was working away at some Norwegian (she does Viking Studies at University). We thought we might find a translation for Darth, so we looked and found that in Old Norse <i>dauthr</i> means "death" and <b><i>dauth</b></i> means "dead". Could it be that Darth Vader in fact means "Dead Father". It is true that in many languages 'dark' and 'death' have the same etymology (come from the same root) so Darth could embody both elements at the same time.
In that case, Darth Vader was a hugely suitable title because of:
- his half-human (<u>dead</u>) state.
- the fact that Luke believed his <u>father</u> to be <u>dead</u>.
- his allegiance to the <u>Dark</u> side
- his position of prestige and power within an organisation/army of in<u>vader</u>s
I'm just astounded by this revelation, I think my smilies say it all! <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
N.B. replies regarding the map may be posted here. If you wish to reply <i>specifically</i> to the Darth Vader revelation please refer yourself to the <b><i>Off Topic</i></b> section of the main forums where this post has been copied as a thread starter.
ns_tbc Update Report:
Current Status:
- In stasis until Yeong Yang Server Cube re-establishes contact with Kobayashi.
Current Progress:
- 25% complete
- Lighting in one section
- 80% of map complete as fullbright, undetailed brushwork
- 95% of plan [2D/3D] complete.
Areas Not Started:
- Climate Control Hive
- Pressure Control
- Main Computer
- Generator
- Solar Panel Control
- Airlock and Fuel Transfer
- Sewage Control
- Pump Station
ETA:
- Unknown. Continuation expected within 2 weeks time. . . . .
. . . PROVIDED I CAN FIND A DELIVERY SERVICE TO BARCELONA THAT DOESN'T COST ME ALMOST 100 ENGLISH POUNDS! AAAAARGH!
This post is:
- A shameless bump
- Some example of my own work just in case those whose work I'm critiquing were wondering.
- A plea for someone to empathize with my predicament.
- A plea for someone to post details of an international [London to Barcelona] courier service that would deliver my PC intact and for a reasonable sum safely to it's father's loving arms.
This post isn't:
Going to get anything lower than 90% on the Geek-o-meter readout <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Behold: The Gospel Generator Hive! (no pictures becuase I have no PC atm)
Each Generator even has its own name; there's Matteus, Marcus, Lucus and Johannus. I'll need to make some sexified textures for the lettering, maybe something gothic-looking. But at the moment all I can do is draw..........
See <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=82449' target='_blank'>Chapter One</a>
EDIT: Changed map name to Serenity, although I'm sure there's a map with that name already. Or it it someone's name on these forums? In any case I'm attempting to find a Greek/Latin translation for it...
EDIT: Within 5 minutes I'd replaced Serenity with Solace. I prefer the new name, it has more of a standalone quality.
Also, I was watching "Alien" the other day. I thought about how awesome it'd be if there was an NS map that imitated the ship as closely as possible. I know there was never a floorplan for it, but you could look at pictures of various rooms (like the medical bay, or the cafeteria) and make some faithful reconstructions and put them together however you please. Bonus points if there were a "Jones' Locker." You know, the cat? Awzmness.
..but back on topic. The map looks good. It's bright and clean, just how I like my maps (tanith and origin XD) and I hope the gamma hackers burn. My only concern is that text will be hard to read against all the white. :/
There is no lighting in those pics. When I started this map I didn't even know texture lighting existed, but don't worry when I start working on the map again they'll be the second areas I start lighting (I played around with texture lighting for an hour or so for the Veritas Complex/Pylon).
If you want to know what they'll look like the upper and lower light textures will be emitting the light. I'm hoping that that basic style will be enough (I'll probably tweak the top lights to give off more light than the bottom ones (yes I know that means 2 different textures -maybe it's better to just tweak them both together). It will be clean and bright but I'll test it to make sure the text is visible (thanks that was a good point).
Finally for those who don't know, this project is on hold until I get my PC shipped to Barcelona, which might not happen in which case it will be until I get my PC shipped to France in March, which might not happen in which case it will definitely restart between May and July... That's such a long way away <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
So since this thread's kinda in stasis just PM me any comments you make and I'll edit this post to include them so an old thread doesn't get bumped.
For the last point, somebody should make the ns_cube map ^^ That can be roxX><0r.
<img src='http://nomad.dssghq.net/images/pics/kob/kob1.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
aahah, the CUBE room <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> It is great.
So since this thread's kinda in stasis just <span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>PM</span> me any comments you make and I'll edit this post to include them so an old thread <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>doesn't get bumped</span>.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'll assume you're still waiting for your brail monitor to arrive in the post along with your English > Brail translation pack.
I'm sorry to be so hostile but the NS Mapping Forums are a dangerous place for those who bump old threads. I've got the Firemen on speed-dial just in case this one gets bumped once again.
<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/uploads//post-34-1100447203.jpg' target='_blank'>plas_computer to help u</a>
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So since this thread's kinda in stasis just <span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>PM</span> me any comments you make and I'll edit this post to include them so an old thread <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>doesn't get bumped</span>.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So since this thread's kinda in stasis just <span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>PM</span> me any comments you make and I'll edit this post to include them so an old thread <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>doesn't get bumped</span>.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
UM NUM NUM NUM
Ha saiee boddee goh aiee ma plahiteen pointaas faw mee?</b>
OK so I'm back in the UK and I've been working a bit on the map. I took a look at the layout and decided that it would never work because I've centred most of the corridors around the lower half of the map and the other two Hives would just be too isolated. My new approach is to work room by room, taking some that I've already done and then jigsaw-piecing them together with all-new corridors to connect them.
As part of this new approach I've taken to totally completing sections, because it's bound to give me more satisfaction and a sense of achievement.
So I've done a bit of research. I tried texture lighting about 6 months ago and managed to get it working successfully. I've also read and bookmarked quite a few threads in this forum (and the pages they link to as well).
Unfortunately I still have a few questions, so let's get started.<ol type='1'><li>In one of these threads, ye olde sage Bobbeth Janitoris gave the following preference to which lighting gives the best visual effects:
<b>texlights with overlays > texlights > light_spots > lights</b>
I never really understood the whole overlay thing, so could someone explain it step by step.
carioca answered this one for me, his winning formula is:
<span style='color:red'>- find an overlay texture (suitable light texture that doesn't include a border that will light up, for example)
- make a null brush (1 unit thick) and place it directly over your old textlight
- select the new texlight face from the null brush and align the texture to fit the texlight behind this
- turn this brush in a func_ilusionary
- remove the old texlight from your light text (lights.rad?)
- include the overlay with the values from old textlight</span>
---</li><li>I already know how to set up the light textures, it's just the overlay that puzzles me. I suppose my real question is:
<i>What effect does adding the overlay have on the lighting?</i></li><li>Following on from this, if I'm planning on using a lot of smaller texlights, will it cost me in wpolys/epolys/entity count? I'll need to know so that I can design the architecture accordingly.</li><li>What in blazes is <i>bounce</i>? How can I edit it and does Hammer support that? How can bounce affect the overall/local map visuals?</li><li>Who is the NS king of lighting? I'd say Belgarion, but maybe there are some contenders for the throne that I've overlooked...</li></ol>This is all for the latest section of my map, the Gospel Generator hive in ns_solace. I misjudged the scaling at first so now it's almost as big as the refinery hive in Bast (best version to date btw), but it seems to be benefitting from a bit of an epic feel to it.
There are four generators (that makes it better than triad <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) and to make it a bit more cosy I'll probably infest one side, cutting the power and lighting to make it a bit cosier for Aliens.
This brings me onto another non-lighting question:<ul><li>Does anyone have any tips on making infestation. I remember reading something a while back which seemed like quite sound advice, and was a really straightforward technique as well, but I've forgotten what it was!</li></ul>[Edit] This might not have been specifically for infestation, more probably for cliffs, etc.
<b>KAY-FANKS-BAI</b>
the overlay secret.
found a overlay texture.
make a null brush 1 unit tick.
put the brusher over your old textlight.
get the face where you wanna be the new texlight.
aling that face with the overlay texture to fit with the behind texlight.
turn this brush in a func_ilusionary.
remove old texlight from your light.rad (light text).
include the overlay with the values from old textlight.
shazan...
you have a overlay texture lightning.
overlay is used to bright only the pixels look like light emiters, you dont have metal, glass or plastic light emiters just the lamp pixels in the texture will send light.
some light texture have inside of the wall some lights so you dont the wall bright up and send light of all room just that small piece of that, in this case you use overlay to save the sexy of the brush work and the atmosphere.
monitors and walls are the best example about overlay.
edited to say light rads.
edited to include the says about over lays
<img src='http://koti.mbnet.fi/tazu/pics/maps/sampleimage.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
I'm sorry if I'm trying to be too 'precise', but hence it's the only thing I know something of... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
That's great advice Perso! I'm a stickler for precision as well so that example suits me perfectly.
I've added another lighting question to the list.
here it is anyways <a href='http://www.egir.dk/index.php?page=vhe_terrain.php' target='_blank'>Triangle method</a>