<!--QuoteBegin-Bahamut+Oct 4 2004, 01:40 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bahamut @ Oct 4 2004, 01:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> aye, that you will. 'Cept that was a week ago. Updateeeeeeeees =D <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Duh, noone wants to do it, so I'll end up doing it myself (I don't know if I'll be able to finish it in time for beta 6).
The first thing I'll do is... turning that new area with crates into a proper reception area, just like you suggested. It will look more original and less crate-tastic. The other immediate change is the entrance into engine, I'm thinking about moving it to one of the sides, but then we would have a problem with LoS... D: We'll see.
<!--QuoteBegin-SaltzBad+Oct 4 2004, 02:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SaltzBad @ Oct 4 2004, 02:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> @Bahamut : Dust and dust2 are unrelated as far as the .rmfs go - they're just done by the same mapper, in the same theme and intended to be vastly different maps from the gameplay. The original .rmf files weren't released afaik. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> hell, learn something new every day. Though since it's a counter-strike mapping fact, I'm kinda scared that you know this =)
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Duh, noone wants to do it, so I'll end up doing it myself (I don't know if I'll be able to finish it in time for beta 6).
The first thing I'll do is... turning that new area with crates into a proper reception area, just like you suggested. It will look more original and less crate-tastic. The other immediate change is the entrance into engine, I'm thinking about moving it to one of the sides, but then we would have a problem with LoS... D: We'll see.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Could always open sauce it =D
then everyone could add their own *cough* "special" ingredient o.O
I wanna change Marine start into a Big square room with 2 exits that are BOTH revolving doors <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
After playing this map for a few weeks, I think it is now <i>generally taken</i> worse than previously. Here are my notes:
-- Too quick access to Engine Room. Yes, I know; you have heard this N times already, but I would like to remind that that revolving door was one of the "unique" things only Bast had, thus removing it was a mistake. Yes, I know it was a pain in the arse to get through it, especially when those gorges had stacked a pile of OCs behind it, but a better solution would had been a weldable behind the door.
For example: a computer terminal in the N-corridor or behind the revolving door to open the currently open MS-to-Engine route (which should be a bit longer in any case -think how it was solved in Eclipse, MS-to-Maint).
-- No more sneaking around in the vents. IMO, they are pretty much obsolete now, as accessing them is a bit too hard when it is the most important: when rines have been holed up to MS. Bring a vent to cargo (right next to MS) or re-open those vents where the lift used to be.
-- Atmos is still the stronghold of marines, if not even more so as they can get to Feedwater <i>and</i> Engine quickly now. Said before, say it again: make that vent easier for a lerk to rest on so he could more easily keep sporing that area. Add a weldable if it feels too risky.
-- Refinely is pretty good and all, if a bit uninteresting, but I think it could be improved a lot. It should be more closed, but yet keep those "ûber-cool" bridges. Here is a radical idea: remove the floor. Completely. Make it a bottomless pit and make those bridges the highlight of that area, but enough pipes for cover and roads (for skulks). I wouldn't mind if you added a powerline a lâ Eclipse Triad to the center of the room.
So here you have it: no more ideas from my part. Take it or leave it. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I'm actually trying to make the marines go through Main Aft again (no door, probably, it's actually a problem with the entity count and HL bugs) and the crashed door would turn into a weldable door...
As for the bottomless pit... lol, I'm sure that a maze consisting of giant revolving doors would work better <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
could always put the revolving door there, but like, make it weldable with some explosives to blow a hole in it. That way you still have the door, and you have a way to slow down the marines initially, yet you don't have crappy entity bugs :o
It could be turned into a double lock, where one side has to close before the other can open, since MS is <i>supposed</i> to be a docking area, and open to space sometimes. The b5 version has totally scrapped that idea, making it into just a room. Of course, gameplay > realism, but it would be nice if it could work.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->lol, I'm sure that a maze consisting of giant revolving doors would work better<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Fine, fine; if you don't like the idea, say so, but don't spit on it.
<!--QuoteBegin-Mendasp+Oct 9 2004, 08:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mendasp @ Oct 9 2004, 08:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think this map is trying to kill me or something... D: <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> sure it's not us? >:D
<!--QuoteBegin-Bahamut+Oct 9 2004, 08:01 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bahamut @ Oct 9 2004, 08:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Mendasp+Oct 9 2004, 08:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mendasp @ Oct 9 2004, 08:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think this map is trying to kill me or something... D: <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> sure it's not us? >:D <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> its me.
i played it the other day for only the second time(i play ns for 2-3 hours a day) and i must say, its far too easy for fades to hold off rines going towards engine through the back entrance, the boxes just make it ridiculously hard to get through. Remove those boxes just inside the door and its win.
<!--QuoteBegin-Wirhe+Oct 9 2004, 12:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Wirhe @ Oct 9 2004, 12:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->lol, I'm sure that a maze consisting of giant revolving doors would work better<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Fine, fine; if you don't like the idea, say so, but don't spit on it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I was joking... don't take it so seriously (if fact it's a common joke in #nsmapping...)
Most civil flamewar I've ever seen, good job gentlemen. Now cease before it turns into something less civil and I have to shoot Mendasp. (my aim is terrible, sorry Mendasp <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
Meanwhile, back to your regularly scheduled bast feedback...
Do something about the horrible fps lag and i will love bast.
i dont know what is causing it but it makes me avoid it like the plague. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
OK, finally leaving my opinion here. I was always a real fan of Bast - for the atmosphere, more than the 'balence' of it - (and I always felt it was marine biased, anyway). However, the new one justlacksthe feel. My big complain is the way engine hasbeen redone - moving it at 90 degrees to the entaracne, seperating it from main aft and so on. Also, losing the sneaky vent way in is kinda disappointing. The box room also annoys me a lot. The wholepoiunt of bast was its variety and uniqueness. A room full of crates doesnt fit. At all.
So, in summary. Nice job guys, but what was so horribly wrong with the beta 4 bast?
<!--QuoteBegin-CMaster+Oct 23 2004, 07:00 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CMaster @ Oct 23 2004, 07:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> what was so horribly wrong with the beta 4 bast?
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> funny u should ask
<!--QuoteBegin-CMaster+Oct 24 2004, 02:00 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CMaster @ Oct 24 2004, 02:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> OK, finally leaving my opinion here. I was always a real fan of Bast - for the atmosphere, more than the 'balence' of it - (and I always felt it was marine biased, anyway). However, the new one justlacksthe feel. My big complain is the way engine hasbeen redone - moving it at 90 degrees to the entaracne, seperating it from main aft and so on. Also, losing the sneaky vent way in is kinda disappointing. The box room also annoys me a lot. The wholepoiunt of bast was its variety and uniqueness. A room full of crates doesnt fit. At all.
So, in summary. Nice job guys, but what was so horribly wrong with the beta 4 bast? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The room with the crates is going away. I tried to turn it into a reception, but it doesn't work very well, ideas?
Engine... well, I might try to change the back entrance to another place, but I have other priorities right now.
As for the FPS lag, I can only assume it's due to the lightdata, it's above 4.5 megs, but the problems start with 6 mbs, but I'll try to do something about it anyways.
Well, like I say I always liked the atmosphere of Bast. But what else is there? WE have sewers, we have steamy places, wehave a command deck (admittedly in the middle of the ship). Ummm. Some kind of docking bay? Idealy though I'd like to see the route go back through main aft-but give the aliens another way out of that hive (to prevent the (OMG, they have engine, put an armory in main aft, mine it up and all the aliens are stuck, then phase gate and shotgun rush their base - that used to happen). Also, any chance of making the vent system more useful again?
The map could do with shrinking, ie pulling in areas like the long tunnel down from feedwater (tram tunnel i think). Definately need to sort out engine, that back entrance is really unfair towards aliens, as marines can have 4 res nodes in the first 20 seconds (double, MS , and engine). Maybe you could move one of the double res nodes, into tram tunnel (just an idea) The map also needs less sounds on, because these can be really annoying when trying to listen for skulks ie (something dropping, and the gas leaking sound.) You could clear marine start of the poles, so marine start is clear.
<!--QuoteBegin-Jas0+Oct 24 2004, 10:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jas0 @ Oct 24 2004, 10:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The map could do with shrinking, ie pulling in areas like the long tunnel down from feedwater (tram tunnel i think). Definately need to sort out engine, that back entrance is really unfair towards aliens, as marines can have 4 res nodes in the first 20 seconds (double, MS , and engine). Maybe you could move one of the double res nodes, into tram tunnel (just an idea) The map also needs less sounds on, because these can be really annoying when trying to listen for skulks ie (something dropping, and the gas leaking sound.) You could clear marine start of the poles, so marine start is clear.
just a few things :x <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> And in turn kill the atmosphere and feel of the map. If I want a map that is nicely balenced and smooth forgameplay,maybe I'll goplay veilor eclipse. If I want a map thats justplaingood fun and has an epic feel - then I'll go for Bast.
If you want to slow marines down a bit (to engine or whatever), make two doors next to each other that you have to open (and that will auto close). So they'ld pretty much be like this <insert crappy ascii drawing>
One door will slow down some marines, two doors will slow them down even more. This removes the problem of the revolving door, but you get almost the same slow down time. Plus, throw in a small window (unbreakable) on the two doors and you have yourself some more atmosphere <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
As for the reception room, uh.... I'll think up of something :/
i didnt really read any many of the posts before but feedwater has quite a few stuckpoints in the infestations and refinery seems very large. other than that i love the new bast. also, i dunno about you guys but my fps problems on bast were fixed in b5 ^^
NolSinklerOn the ClorfJoin Date: 2004-02-15Member: 26560Members, Constellation
edited October 2004
<!--QuoteBegin-NolSinkler+Sep 5 2004, 11:40 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NolSinkler @ Sep 5 2004, 11:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ok, here are my ideas on fixing the quick 2 second run to engine room. Its done on the minimap, so be nice (especially since I did this on MS paint <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> ).
I added 3 RTs, and got rid of one in double, switched double and MS, moved feedwater, made it a longer walk from engine to refinery, and more.
(flame away) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You know, this man has great ideas (i know you already saw it, I just like these ideas...the picture is on page 2, BTW).
Comments
Duh, noone wants to do it, so I'll end up doing it myself (I don't know if I'll be able to finish it in time for beta 6).
The first thing I'll do is... turning that new area with crates into a proper reception area, just like you suggested. It will look more original and less crate-tastic. The other immediate change is the entrance into engine, I'm thinking about moving it to one of the sides, but then we would have a problem with LoS... D: We'll see.
Dust and dust2 are unrelated as far as the .rmfs go - they're just done by the same mapper, in the same theme and intended to be vastly different maps from the gameplay. The original .rmf files weren't released afaik. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
hell, learn something new every day. Though since it's a counter-strike mapping fact, I'm kinda scared that you know this =)
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Duh, noone wants to do it, so I'll end up doing it myself (I don't know if I'll be able to finish it in time for beta 6).
The first thing I'll do is... turning that new area with crates into a proper reception area, just like you suggested. It will look more original and less crate-tastic. The other immediate change is the entrance into engine, I'm thinking about moving it to one of the sides, but then we would have a problem with LoS... D: We'll see.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Could always open sauce it =D
then everyone could add their own *cough* "special" ingredient o.O
then everyone could add their own *cough* "special" ingredient o.O <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol no
I wanna change Marine start into a Big square room with 2 exits that are BOTH revolving doors <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
-- Too quick access to Engine Room. Yes, I know; you have heard this N times already, but I would like to remind that that revolving door was one of the "unique" things only Bast had, thus removing it was a mistake. Yes, I know it was a pain in the arse to get through it, especially when those gorges had stacked a pile of OCs behind it, but a better solution would had been a weldable behind the door.
For example: a computer terminal in the N-corridor or behind the revolving door to open the currently open MS-to-Engine route (which should be a bit longer in any case -think how it was solved in Eclipse, MS-to-Maint).
-- No more sneaking around in the vents. IMO, they are pretty much obsolete now, as accessing them is a bit too hard when it is the most important: when rines have been holed up to MS. Bring a vent to cargo (right next to MS) or re-open those vents where the lift used to be.
-- Atmos is still the stronghold of marines, if not even more so as they can get to Feedwater <i>and</i> Engine quickly now. Said before, say it again: make that vent easier for a lerk to rest on so he could more easily keep sporing that area. Add a weldable if it feels too risky.
-- Refinely is pretty good and all, if a bit uninteresting, but I think it could be improved a lot. It should be more closed, but yet keep those "ûber-cool" bridges. Here is a radical idea: remove the floor. Completely. Make it a bottomless pit and make those bridges the highlight of that area, but enough pipes for cover and roads (for skulks). I wouldn't mind if you added a powerline a lâ Eclipse Triad to the center of the room.
So here you have it: no more ideas from my part. Take it or leave it. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
As for the bottomless pit... lol, I'm sure that a maze consisting of giant revolving doors would work better <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Fine, fine; if you don't like the idea, say so, but don't spit on it.
sure it's not us? >:D
sure it's not us? >:D <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
its me.
i played it the other day for only the second time(i play ns for 2-3 hours a day) and i must say, its far too easy for fades to hold off rines going towards engine through the back entrance, the boxes just make it ridiculously hard to get through. Remove those boxes just inside the door and its win.
Fine, fine; if you don't like the idea, say so, but don't spit on it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was joking... don't take it so seriously (if fact it's a common joke in #nsmapping...)
Meanwhile, back to your regularly scheduled bast feedback...
i dont know what is causing it but it makes me avoid it like the plague. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
bad optimization maybe?
I was always a real fan of Bast - for the atmosphere, more than the 'balence' of it - (and I always felt it was marine biased, anyway). However, the new one justlacksthe feel. My big complain is the way engine hasbeen redone - moving it at 90 degrees to the entaracne, seperating it from main aft and so on. Also, losing the sneaky vent way in is kinda disappointing. The box room also annoys me a lot. The wholepoiunt of bast was its variety and uniqueness. A room full of crates doesnt fit. At all.
So, in summary. Nice job guys, but what was so horribly wrong with the beta 4 bast?
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
funny u should ask
I was always a real fan of Bast - for the atmosphere, more than the 'balence' of it - (and I always felt it was marine biased, anyway). However, the new one justlacksthe feel. My big complain is the way engine hasbeen redone - moving it at 90 degrees to the entaracne, seperating it from main aft and so on. Also, losing the sneaky vent way in is kinda disappointing. The box room also annoys me a lot. The wholepoiunt of bast was its variety and uniqueness. A room full of crates doesnt fit. At all.
So, in summary. Nice job guys, but what was so horribly wrong with the beta 4 bast? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The room with the crates is going away. I tried to turn it into a reception, but it doesn't work very well, ideas?
Engine... well, I might try to change the back entrance to another place, but I have other priorities right now.
As for the FPS lag, I can only assume it's due to the lightdata, it's above 4.5 megs, but the problems start with 6 mbs, but I'll try to do something about it anyways.
just a few things :x
just a few things :x <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
And in turn kill the atmosphere and feel of the map.
If I want a map that is nicely balenced and smooth forgameplay,maybe I'll goplay veilor eclipse. If I want a map thats justplaingood fun and has an epic feel - then I'll go for Bast.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Room 1 | | Room 2
Door 1--^ ^--Door 2<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
One door will slow down some marines, two doors will slow them down even more. This removes the problem of the revolving door, but you get almost the same slow down time. Plus, throw in a small window (unbreakable) on the two doors and you have yourself some more atmosphere <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
As for the reception room, uh.... I'll think up of something :/
I added 3 RTs, and got rid of one in double, switched double and MS, moved feedwater, made it a longer walk from engine to refinery, and more.
(flame away) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You know, this man has great ideas (i know you already saw it, I just like these ideas...the picture is on page 2, BTW).