Ns_bast Feedback Thread

Soul_Rider · November 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NolSinkler @ Oct 26 2004, 02:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NolSinkler @ Sep 5 2004, 11:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Ok, here are my ideas on fixing the quick 2 second run to engine room. Its done on the minimap, so be nice (especially since I did this on MS paint <img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /> ).

I added 3 RTs, and got rid of one in double, switched double and MS, moved feedwater, made it a longer walk from engine to refinery, and more.

(flame away) </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
You know, this man has great ideas (i know you already saw it, I just like these ideas...the picture is on page 2, BTW). </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

Self glorification NolSinkler???

My honest opinion of the new Bast is that some of the atmosphere has gone, yes, and the ms-engine-refinery link is a problem, but i actually enjoy playing the map because it is still unique and is still bast. If marines go back through main aft to get to engine great, maybe get the dead elevator between engine and refinery to become workable too, so it comes out at the end of main aft where the far revolving door currently is, not the ms door, and that could add more spice to the map, just my couple of pence worth.

Jas0 · November 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> And in turn kill the atmosphere and feel of the map.
If I want a map that is nicely balenced and smooth forgameplay,maybe I'll goplay veilor eclipse. If I want a map thats justplaingood fun and has an epic feel - then I'll go for Bast.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

Oh im sorry, i thought you wanted a map that mite be played in pcws. obviously i was mistaken.... <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' />

Faskalia · November 2004

Just one thing about bast:

Though a reloc to dbl might seem stupid it grants you constant control over 2 res nodes, as well as easy control over 2 additional ones and 1 hive.

The only way to attack ref, when rines reloced at dbl is through tram up the ladder of doom. I have seen many oni die this way. A organised team will try an MC rush with a gorge swimming through the water tunnel. This costs you 40 res and can easily countered with a mass JP rush on ref hive, which is rather easy accesable and then a blow against engine.

Bast suffers from some desgin flawn (imo):
- It is a JP based map, even with 2 hives it is nearly impossible to defend refinery against a JP assault
- capturing feedwater is also nearly impossible when rines reloced dbl
- engine hive means for me, as comm: 1 armory shotties+mines and a 60 second victory (works 80% of the time)

The major problem that causes this is dbl res and its proximity to feedwater.

Although it is a reloc in the corner of the map it grants you control over 4 res nodes and 1 hive. Combine this with the JP friendlieness of Refinery and the easy acces to engine hive and you have a totally rine based map. (though i must admid that is a really good looking one)

So i suggest removing at least 1 node from dbl.
Maybe removing dbl completely as well as adding an additional room to tram tunnel with a res node in it might work.

And pls remove the ladder of doom (the one leading to ref) it is just deadly as hell.

cookman · November 2004

It's nice changes. But it's not bast any longer.

BobTheJanitor · November 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (cookman @ Nov 4 2004, 02:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> It's nice changes. But it's not bast any longer.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
No, actually it is. This is the official version of ns_bast. Endorsed by the dev team. If you don't like something about the map, point out what it is. Feedback like this is completely unhelpful and quite rude. You have <i>no idea</i> the amount of effort that it took to rebuild bast since the source was lost. And Mendasp is working even harder to improve the many gameplay flaws in the map. Do you know what it's like working with a map as complex as the remade bast? I wouldn't touch it if you paid me. So before you throw out vague comments that disparage the hard work of others, consider whether your comments are in any way constructive, or if they're just uppity and rude. Thank you.

Forlorn · November 2004

It's not really bast, the entire layout was scrapped. 50% of the map remains unchanged.

How the hell is this the same map by any logical standards? Not that I dislike the new bast over the old one (both suck) but I do think the old bast so far was more fun.

Mendasp · November 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Nov 4 2004, 10:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>It's not really bast, the entire layout was scrapped. 50% of the map remains unchanged.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
That's some awesome *cough*<span style='font-size:5pt;line-height:100%'>made up</span>*cough* information there.

BobTheJanitor · November 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Nov 4 2004, 03:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> It's not really bast, the entire layout was scrapped. 50% of the map remains unchanged.

How the hell is this the same map by any logical standards? Not that I dislike the new bast over the old one (both suck) but I do think the old bast so far was more fun.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
After a warning about giving unconstructive commentary, how do you feel you immediately need to give unconstructive commentary?

If you don't like the map, explain why. Otherwise, don't post.

Mendasp · November 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BobTheJanitor @ Nov 4 2004, 10:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> If you don't like the map, explain why (in a constructive manner). Otherwise, don't post. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Fixed. I don't think he's able to understand you have to be constructive in a feedback thread.

NolSinkler · November 2004

Chh, even though ATM the map isn't the most balanced...it's still one of my favorites.

And before you say I didn't give feedback I did.

cookman · November 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BobTheJanitor @ Nov 4 2004, 03:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> No, actually it is. This is the official version of ns_bast. Endorsed by the dev team. If you don't like something about the map, point out what it is. Feedback like this is completely unhelpful and quite rude. You have <i>no idea</i> the amount of effort that it took to rebuild bast since the source was lost. And Mendasp is working even harder to improve the many gameplay flaws in the map. Do you know what it's like working with a map as complex as the remade bast? I wouldn't touch it if you paid me. So before you throw out vague comments that disparage the hard work of others, consider whether your comments are in any way constructive, or if they're just uppity and rude. Thank you. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Well, first of all, I did say it was some nice changes.
Second of all, I have a lot of respect for Mendasp. I think it is great that he remade ns_bast, and the remake turned out very good I think. However, the recent update, resulting in the death of a lot of the features, which makes me recognize this map as bast has been removed: The revolving door, the vertical MS, the one-way engine room, the beautiful vent system. This was all what made made me cognize ns_bast. So excuse me if I, in my opinion, claim that the recent update has killed bast. It looks to me that the atmospheric and different ns_bast, is turning into another sterile ns_veil. And sure, Mendasp put a lot of hard work in this bast, and I respect that, but I can also put a lot of hard work in destroying things too, not saying that mendasp has destroyed this map.
I know officially this is ns_bast, but in my mind this is not ns_bast any longer, and you shouldn't face-kick me for doing so. I think it's unjustifiable for you to flame me for stating my opinion, but I can understand it if you're maybe having a bad day or misunderstood.
I didn't mean to disrespect Mendasp, but even though he worked hard, I'm not gonna fake a smile if I dislike what his work resulted in.

slipknotkthx · November 2004

move the map into the recycle bin

Mendasp · January 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DeLtA FoRcE @ Nov 20 2004, 02:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> move the map into the recycle bin  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
ok, move user to ban group

Jezpuh · January 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mendasp @ Jan 8 2005, 09:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DeLtA FoRcE @ Nov 20 2004, 02:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> move the map into the recycle bin </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
ok, move user to ban group  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Mendasp for admin.

Mendasp · January 2005

btw, since like 75% of the people that sent me feedback is either immature, retarded, or both, I'm not going to make feedback threads for the beta 6 versions of the maps.

Thanks, ****.

Zodiac_Mindwarp · January 2005

Don't let the 75% noobs drag you down Mendasp you still got 25% of which are still important to the feedback threads, too bad the forums don't have mute. lol

Looking forward to your future works. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tsa.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tsa.gif' />

Z

Mendasp · January 2005

Well, I'll be more than happy to receive feedback in PM form, or email, whatever.

I'd like to avoid as many: "LOLZ U SUCKS DELORT TEH MAP" messages as possible.

Tequila · January 2005

My 'Gladiator' post, cruelly slain! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' />

Anyhow, ignore the morons who will talk any old rubbish; good luck polishing up the merchandise for beta 6!

Mendasp · January 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tequila @ Jan 9 2005, 05:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> good luck polishing up the merchandise for beta 6!  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
There's changes for the consties to evaluate, now, since most **** don't spend money on "THE INTERNETS" I'll probably get good feedback, but I could get nothing, who knows.

Fieari · January 2005

Well, I will say that forcing the marines to go through Main Aft has so far been a MAJOR help. I've only played two games on the new map so far, and both times the marines won, but I'm not sure if this was due to the map, or the fact that we're still getting used to the other changes as well.

I'll report more as I play more.

ICU · January 2005

1:There needs to be a vent that goes from engine room hive to water treatment hall way, so if rines are blocking that entrance there is at least a possibilty of an attack from behind or a way to get out of the hive in that direction.

2:Refinery just needs to be made smaller with a lower roof and those 2 little nooks right above the furnace where phase gates can be built by JPers and are easily defended by them as well.

3: A corridor with lots of cover for aliens, but goes from right outside of atmospheric to tram tunnel would really open up the map and would allow marines to go in that direction without haveing to go through the hive.

4: Cover in the tram tunnel needs to be added, its way to long and large for aliens to ever get down that hallway with marines camping and the vents is a long detour to take to attack.

5: The 1/5 of refinery towards lower junction should be removed as it is not even used or has a use as I can see.

6: The vent's exit from refinery to water treatment should be further down the hall way so aliens can't bile/xeno/jump on directly on the heads of the marines, (yes it makes for aliens easy to defend but impossible for marines to attack).

7: The observation bridge although cool, is uneccesary and is almost always only used for aliens/marines to hide in after the game is over.

8: the 2 not working revolving doors in main aft junction could be removed to make it more alien friendly so there is less room for marines to put between the marines and the entrances.

Some of these ideas might have been posted before me since i have not read the other 10 pages of posts so disreguard if so.
I hope you like my suggestions. Feel free to argue them.

Sewlek · January 2005

good ideas, I pm'd mendasp and also told him about the "refinery issue". In my eyes its just to big, so too lerk/JP friendly. Onos or ha have no chances in there

Mendasp · January 2005

1.- Planned for the next b6 version.
2.- This is quite complicated to do... not saying I'm not going to try <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />
3.- Tram and Atmos are very far away from each other, I don't think I can do this.
4.- We tried this once in the pre-b4 version and didn't work very well, but I can try again and see how it works.
5.- What? You mean the part of Refinery where the res node was before?
6.- I'll need more opinions on this before I decide anything...
7.- I know about this, but... well, I'm afraid that if I remove/change this I'm going to get even more bitching...
8.- There's only one in B6, but I see what you mean

Thanks for the feedback.

Anderval · January 2005

i didnt read the whole thread, but there's a stuck point in feedwater hive (b6 version) on the righthand side as you walk into the hive from atmospheric - it's about level with the rt and directly on the far right of the hive.

oh and the route from ms to engine is much better now, plus it makes main aft useful again, nice one <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' />

ICU · January 2005

for my 5: yes where the res node used to be its just more room for JPers to hide and use, also there is only one way for gorges to get across and thats the bridge and only 2 way for onos to cross and thats the pipes and bridge also make it very easy to defend.

also im sure its come up before in previous posts, a res node needs to be removed from atmos, it will make the marines actually use more of the map, or if you make a double res, make it more centered in the map.

I was thinking moveing main aft junction RT in between MS and engine, then add an RT to EM drill shaft, it would make use of the observation bridge as well!

Also what program do you use to edt/make maps? I have really great ideas for refinery and the best way to show you them i think is to just edit the map and send it to you I think.

I was reading others posts about airlocks and one door closeing while the other opens..etc. that doesnt work, it was tried in old school caged but was removed.

I also think that makeing marines go through main aft junction to get to engine is the best solution but engine and refinery are to close togeather, there needs to be a transition between engine and water treatment not only for balancing but cosmeticaly as well!

Have you ever put the thought of make the tram in the tram tunnel actually work?
It could speed the transportation of marines AND/OR give aliens cover while they hide in it as the tram travels down the tunnel, is a good alternative to putting cover in the tunnel

Also i see MANY MANY people who say they like/dont like the map before/now/ever, just remember you will NEVER make 100% of the people happy!

Also is it possible to place RTs on walls/ceilings? that would make bast pretty darned unique!

Cosmetic changed:i love atmospheric,but i think it would be sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo bad arse if the fans in the ceiling worked and it effected the lighting omg DROOL, brings me back to starcraft!

In the feedwater filtration access, because its filtering "something" should have water in it and have bubbles floating through it or something.

Mendasp · January 2005

Removing a node is one of the most repeated suggestions, and I may try it in one the b6 versions (if I have time).

The rest of cosmetic suggestions (and I include making a working tram) aren't possible because that would add to the entity count too much.

Sewlek · January 2005

i hope the last think with the rts was just fun <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' />

and, i guess if you aren´t at least of the "remake team" I guess mendasp wont offer you the rmf file <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' />

SDJason · January 2005

Ok.. first off bast has always, and still is my favorite map....

I understand the revolving door problem.. and am totally cool with it being gone... the elevator to ms too.. that is ok..

I would still appreciate a vent in ms that goes to both hives like old versions..

I have a way to do it... it involves N-Corridor...

Make all three (ms, and both hives) vents converge at N corridor however the MS one is broke and must be welded from the other side to open it...

...........................__________________
...........................|..__........................|
...........................| |_| <-Hole to........|
..........Vent..........|...........Atmos..........|........Vent
Hive....=======.................................==============...Hive
..........................|......N-Corridor.........|
..........................|..Weldable from........|
..........................|......INSIDE ONLY......|
..........................|..............__..............|
..........................{_______(...)_______}
.........................................|.|
.........................................|.|...Vent
.........................................|.|
..........................................MS

What this does is.. marines must enter the vent from a hive and weld it (tedius) or they must have jetpacks to enter into n corridor from double....

This would still give marines the ability to do the sieges and comebacks endgame, but would also make it not too easy to get to both hives.. which is im assuming why you took it out.....

Also cockpit kicks ****... thats my number 1 relocation spot.. and yes i win from there before anyone asks..... maybe make a vent go to cockpit from between n corridor and feedwater hive..

Call me crazy but my favorite part of this map was how you could go anywhere directly from ms through vents...

Changes you made i liked...
I love the new path to engine...
I love the removal of rotating door(not spefically.. liked its effect on gameplay) and how main aft is more separated from ms.. gives marines more ways out...
Love how u can no longer siege engine hive witha tf placed in MS and sieges in the vents....

Good map though.. still my favorite

~Jason

ssjyoda · January 2005

im always gonna request this to be done, or even just attempted.. a branch off from atmos/steam to another area so its not a direct path from ms<->feedwater.... that really needs to be dealt with in some way.. even if it is a long path, needs to be done.

SDJason · January 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ssjyoda @ Jan 15 2005, 10:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> im always gonna request this to be done, or even just attempted.. a branch off from atmos/steam to another area so its not a direct path from ms<->feedwater.... that really needs to be dealt with in some way.. even if it is a long path, needs to be done.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
OMG BRAINSTORM....

That stupid really bright circle spot in the middle of double is a giant ELEVATOR.. it lowers you to tram tunnel.. which extends to that elevator.... (stuff from the processing plant is lowered to the tram tunnel and transported to the refinery.... it fits.........

Ns_bast Feedback Thread

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