i wana see how skulks play after this knock back reducation befire anyother cahnges happen. If there needs to be some more changes, i would much rather see speed boost over armour boost.
personally, I found that in co, most games were lost unless there was an early lerk. (or an early fade to ruin it, but that's another story)
But the point is as smoodcoozn said, the aliens need some kind of defence when they spawn (not too much though, as I noticed that the rine attack falters when they think a spawn wave is about to happen and the group spawning helps take down a rine or two). But when it gets into the later game, the aliens have no way to stop heavies or jp in the hive because there is no chance to evolve.
I must say though, that each big change in NS has bought on a new way of playing. So donn't bag it untill you've had enough time to adjust...
<!--QuoteBegin-LOTUK+Sep 6 2004, 10:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (LOTUK @ Sep 6 2004, 10:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> But when it gets into the later game, the aliens have no way to stop heavies or jp in the hive because there is no chance to evolve. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Indeed. Maybe just have the option to devolve instead of always spawning as a skulk.
yep this is flayra's official "i hate aliens" patch. aliens were already way broken in b4 (except for fade). now that marines have been super buffed aliens are just garbage. why wasn't the skulk given any buffs? the knockback is still retarded. i'm not playing this patch anymore until the next one. the dev team always takes 1 step forward and 10 steps back. what a waste of my time
I havent found the games change too much. They are just as fun as before, and in fact I racked up a rather impressive kill record against very formmidable players. It was a decent 8 kills to 0 deaths in the first 5 minutes or so. Only after we got shotgun rushes by very good players (Mr Gunner is a shotgun master, as well as half the marine team. I have seen them in action since the early parts of this month and last month's games).
However, people say "Buff the skulks! They need more buffing!"
Basically what people are looking for is a skulk who can take a full clip from an LMG that forces the player to whip out his pistol and waste his ammo trying to finish the skulk off. You dont seem to understand.
In the description, it clearly stated (In italics if I am not mistaken) the skulk was meant to be an ambush unit. This doesnt mean you charge a team of marines head on, and when you die say "OMG! SKULK NEEDS BUFFS!"
You are supposed to wait on ceilings, hide alongside doors, wait behind walls or computers, or wait in vent. I am so sick of seeing people rush marine teams. Its stupid. In fact, if you are smart, you can take out a decent sized team of three marines without taking excessive damage. I am a purely average player and have taken out squads of marines before by myself as a skulk (Even with shotguns)
Here is a hint: <i>Stop rushing marine teams head on!</i>
That is why it is only two bites to kill a vanilla marine. Anything beyond that is three or four. However, if you are forced to run at a marine, at least do it in a group of two or so, and if not, then strafe, leap up in the air, be erratic, run up the wall and the ceilings in circular patterns. Believe me, they cant hit you very easily that way.
So, heres a hint, do not suggest that skulks need beefing, because anything beyond what they have now would be overpowering them. Leave them be.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I havent found the games change too much. They are just as fun as before, and in fact I racked up a rather impressive kill record against very formmidable players. It was a decent 8 kills to 0 deaths in the first 5 minutes or so. Only after we got shotgun rushes by very good players (Mr Gunner is a shotgun master, as well as half the marine team. I have seen them in action since the early parts of this month and last month's games).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Obviously you haven't played alien's in classic and combat in beta 5 from the look's of thing's. The only real benefit the alien's received at all in this version was the ability to regenerate health to armor, which still doesn't help at all because an HMG displace's damage faster than a hive and three dc's for an Onos or Fade. The marine's received a fixed shotgun with sprites, making the shotgun about 25% more deadlier than before if used in the right hands. Also, have you tried Fade at all? I didn't see anywhere in the changelog listing the Fade will not stop instantly when it run's out of energy instead of getting a "partial" boost jump to aid it from death like in beta 4a. I know there's many way's to avoid doing that, but it's inevitable that you're going to run out of energy because of a quick reaction to run away.
Also, the extra 350 carapace on Onos only make's it able to survive an extra 10-15 HMG round's depending on how many hive's they have; not much of a change at all because nobody bothers to get carapace in classic. Even under fire, regen will heal enough HP back to take more than enough HMG rounds. Oh, yeah. Who actually uses redeem in classic on a regular basis? I'm sure none of you do.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->However, people say "Buff the skulks! They need more buffing!"<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> People say buff the Skulk because a lone marine can take out three charging Skulk's with his LMG and pistol because of the distance gap. Do you know how <i>unfun</i> it is to die instantly from one shotgun or six HMG round's or one grenade from a GL hitting you from six feet away while you're on the roof?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Basically what people are looking for is a skulk who can take a full clip from an LMG that forces the player to whip out his pistol and waste his ammo trying to finish the skulk off. You dont seem to understand.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> We're looking to stand a chance against a marine at close quarter's. Once the marine's receieve armor 1 and weapon 1, you'll be lucky to even kill one or two marine's if they have a distance gap over three feet or less.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You are supposed to wait on ceilings, hide alongside doors, wait behind walls or computers, or wait in vent. I am so sick of seeing people rush marine teams. Its stupid. In fact, if you are smart, you can take out a decent sized team of three marines without taking excessive damage. I am a purely average player and have taken out squads of marines before by myself as a skulk (Even with shotguns)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Obviously you got lucky or the marine's were complete dumbasses if you took out a whole squad of marine's. Honestly, hiding above roof's around corner's doesn't work at all because I'm so well trained in this game that I check every corner and roof everytime I pass through a doorway. Once you get motion tracking, you can predict almost every alien movement by simply hitting the m key to pull out the minimap. I'm not saying ambushing isn't effective, I'm saying it's something that isn't as viable anymore because of marine's who aren't stupid and know how an alien play's.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So, heres a hint, do not suggest that skulks need beefing, because anything beyond what they have now would be overpowering them. Leave them be.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You honestly don't play aliens often, do you?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Obviously you haven't played alien's in classic and combat in beta 5 from the look's of thing's. The only real benefit the alien's received at all in this version was the ability to regenerate health to armor, which still doesn't help at all because an HMG displace's damage faster than a hive and three dc's for an Onos or Fade. The marine's received a fixed shotgun with sprites, making the shotgun about 25% more deadlier than before if used in the right hands. Also, have you tried Fade at all? I didn't see anywhere in the changelog listing the Fade will not stop instantly when it run's out of energy instead of getting a "partial" boost jump to aid it from death like in beta 4a. I know there's many way's to avoid doing that, but it's inevitable that you're going to run out of energy because of a quick reaction to run away.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is this about the Onos? No, this is about the skulk.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also, the extra 350 carapace on Onos only make's it able to survive an extra 10-15 HMG round's depending on how many hive's they have; not much of a change at all because nobody bothers to get carapace in classic. Even under fire, regen will heal enough HP back to take more than enough HMG rounds. Oh, yeah. Who actually uses redeem in classic on a regular basis? I'm sure none of you do.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again, this is about the Skulk and its problem. However, I use redemption almost every time I go Onos in games where resources are tight, because when playing maps, Ranger Alpha redempted at least 8 times before we brought him down with 5 HMG's pounding at the same time.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->People say buff the Skulk because a lone marine can take out three charging Skulk's with his LMG and pistol because of the distance gap. Do you know how <i>unfun</i> it is to die instantly from one shotgun or six HMG round's or one grenade from a GL hitting you from six feet away while you're on the roof?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A skulk can just as easily take out 3 marines by himself. Do you know how unfun it is to die after one focus bite? Not every marine has the ultimate aim where he can nail a skulk while he is clamoring up the wall, jumping down and then strage jumping towards the marine. As for the matter of GL's, you have a good 1.5 to 2 seconds before the grenade goes off, as well as the time when you hear him shoot the weapon. But by the time they have GL's, you should have Fades, maybe even Onos's.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->We're looking to stand a chance against a marine at close quarter's. Once the marine's receieve armor 1 and weapon 1, you'll be lucky to even kill one or two marine's if they have a distance gap over three feet or less.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have killed two marines at close range, one with a shotgun and one with an HMG, FROM BEHIND whilst hiding in the dark shadows, and of course, by the time they had HMG's, they were well into the upgrade list.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Obviously you got lucky or the marine's were complete dumbasses if you took out a whole squad of marine's. Honestly, hiding above roof's around corner's doesn't work at all because I'm so well trained in this game that I check every corner and roof everytime I pass through a doorway. Once you get motion tracking, you can predict almost every alien movement by simply hitting the m key to pull out the minimap. I'm not saying ambushing isn't effective, I'm saying it's something that isn't as viable anymore because of marine's who aren't stupid and know how an alien play's.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just because you dont check every viable corner doesnt make you a ****. Normally when marines travel in groups they keep their eyes on the pointman. I know, because I've seen it happen in games all over my months and experience of playing on several different servers. If the marine is experienced, then why cant the aliens be experienced? Its like all marine players are good and all alien players are n00bs. They all arent. But, again, unless you rush Motion Tracking within the first 5 minutes, you should have Fades, (Or Onos's in late games, since Motion Tracking is not vital) to deal with any marines aware of your moves.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You honestly don't play aliens often, do you?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You are supposed to wait on ceilings, hide alongside doors, wait behind walls or computers, or wait in vent. I am so sick of seeing people rush marine teams. Its stupid. In fact, if you are smart, you can take out a decent sized team of three marines without taking excessive damage.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
might be a decent point if it wernt for 1 thing. pretty much every half-decent player out there knows to check corners, check vents, check all those little hidey holes u mentioned.
an ambush only works if theyr NOT expecting it, cant count the amount of times ive been 1-hit shotgunned by a marine before it even showed him comen round the corner.
and with mt makes getting to an ambush spot without them seeing and KNOWING your there impossible unless you do it when theyr still a long way away, in which case you gota predict exactly where theyr going...,
to take groups of marines now, you need speed and take them from behind or infront or wherever most of em aint looken. and is it just me or does skulk seem to be getting SLOWER not faster...
I'm pretty sure that the need to re-evolve after death is to try to stop the constant rush of fades & onoseseses. If you have to re-evolve into an onos after death, it gives the marines a bit of time to spawn and take the next attack. This works well...but the aliens need something to stop the constant jp's and heavies (i.e. rines have to reselect their jp's and heavies and maybe guns. Plus add a delay to equip the armour/jp/weapon to help slow down the rushes for the aliens as well)
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Is this about the Onos? No, this is about the skulk.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
actually its about all aliens. skulk mostly tho because its the one with the most issues.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->A skulk can just as easily take out 3 marines by himself. Do you know how unfun it is to die after one focus bite? Not every marine has the ultimate aim where he can nail a skulk while he is clamoring up the wall, jumping down and then strage jumping towards the marine. As for the matter of GL's, you have a good 1.5 to 2 seconds before the grenade goes off, as well as the time when you hear him shoot the weapon. But by the time they have GL's, you should have Fades, maybe even Onos's.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
k. sure it can, take out 3 vanilla marines on a pub that are distracted by something (ANOTHER SKULK MÀYBE?). but the thing is that those marines still suck. try to play on other servers than your own clan server, it could give u some experience.
and that gl argument is totally pointless. a gl should never be alone, he should be accompanied by 4+ other marines all carrying heavy weaponry.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I have killed two marines at close range, one with a shotgun and one with an HMG, FROM BEHIND whilst hiding in the dark shadows, and of course, by the time they had HMG's, they were well into the upgrade list.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
then they were noobs, distracted by something, deaf irl, lagging, just lost their armslab upgrades or something similar. u proved no point with that in fact u coulda just remained from telling us your random experience from a random pub.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Just because you dont check every viable corner doesnt make you a ****. Normally when marines travel in groups they keep their eyes on the pointman. I know, because I've seen it happen in games all over my months and experience of playing on several different servers. If the marine is experienced, then why cant the aliens be experienced? Its like all marine players are good and all alien players are n00bs. They all arent. But, again, unless you rush Motion Tracking within the first 5 minutes, you should have Fades, (Or Onos's in late games, since Motion Tracking is not vital) to deal with any marines aware of your moves.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
normally sane marines all keep their eyes and ears open no matter where they travel and who with. also the pointman was an idiot if he didnt see an uncloaked skulk. (except if room was for example maintenance on hera, that i can let pass)
if u did have cloak then the comm was an idiot for not scanning or getting mt or even armor1. sure the aliens can be experienced but if skill level is same then marine > skulk. vanilla.
as for mt ... its quite possible to have MT, armor1, weapons1 and armory upgrading within 5 minutes. not to mention the amount of rfk your marines get off dead skulks, because mt is totally superior against skulks. its horribly overpowering in a pub with decent marines, cant say much about clan play. but anyways the trick of fast upgrading is this:
no elec rt's no tf's no torrents.
yes mines for base yes armslab/obs within first minute and if armslab first then obs within 2 minutes and vice versa.
<!--QuoteBegin-NGE+Sep 7 2004, 12:41 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NGE @ Sep 7 2004, 12:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> No KB = aliens are waaaaaaay easier to play <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> And not only is the knockback reduced, the whole knockback system was rewritten so its effects are more consistant and hit the target straight back rather than to one side, which makes getting multiple bites in as a skulk much easier.
<b>Solution to the alien spawnkilling(combat)</b>: <i>If someone died as for example a fade, the person have to wait for a while and then he/she get a menu up. The menu, there you can choose what upgrade/lifeform you want to have/be before you spawn. In that way, no one will get spawnkilled.
And to give mariens some chance, longer spawn time, but not much more. And in that chase, its not the same spawn system as mariens. 2 different spawn system in 2 different teams.</i>
But, its only a idea. Dont know if its a good or bad system, or if it can work enough.
Co is meant to be short... though its not fun that way. They should change it back.
Wishlist for next patch
REMOVE THE FRIGGIN EVOLVE RES COSTS!
They're just totaly stupid. In the beginning of the game no one bothers to upgrade to save res. U die... no one cares... in the middle part you evolve into higher lifeform + upgrades... if you die... you lost 50 res... who the hell cares about that 4 extra ones?
Just rmeove that... its killing the fun and the flexibilty of the players.
I really belive that could beef the skullk enough...
Oh and something for CO. When you join late you should get the same xp as the lowest one on your team... than you got at least a lil chance of surviving.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->k. sure it can, take out 3 vanilla marines on a pub that are distracted by something (ANOTHER SKULK MÀYBE?). but the thing is that those marines still suck. try to play on other servers than your own clan server, it could give u some experience.
and that gl argument is totally pointless. a gl should never be alone, he should be accompanied by 4+ other marines all carrying heavy weaponry.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For once, admit that if 3 decent marines get owned by a skulk (not distracted) then they arent n00bs. Lets say you had 3 half decent marines and an even MORE decent skulk. As I have said time, and time again, not every alien is going to rush out head on into a group of marines and kill them all. It takes timing, it takes skill, and believe me its there. A silence skulk is a powerful thing. But in the end, you dont have to worry about the marine not seeing you at ALL, you just have to worry about if he sees you long enough for you to get as close as possible to him.
That is exactly ALL you need to worry about is getting close enough to that marine to bite him without seeing you first. If he sees you then go evasive, dont run in a straight line like n00bs on a server do.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->then they were noobs, distracted by something, deaf irl, lagging, just lost their armslab upgrades or something similar. u proved no point with that in fact u coulda just remained from telling us your random experience from a random pub.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually it was Lerky Jerky with the player [On|E]Brimstone and [On|E]Stall, both respectable players, calmly jogging down a hallway in a map we dont play often enough (though I forget the name, its the very dark map that reminds me of mineshaft) and I waited calmly in a vent near the ceiling, and peeked out when I heard them jog by. So, I let myself fall out, hit the ground, bite Brimstone in the **** and after a few bites, kill him, whilst Stall makes a mad shot as I dash up the wall and make a drop on his head and bite him. Both marines are dead, both had armor 2, one with an HMG, one with a Shotgun. A little less random for you, oh "master of all that are servers and judgement"?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->normally sane marines all keep their eyes and ears open no matter where they travel and who with. also the pointman was an idiot if he didnt see an uncloaked skulk. (except if room was for example maintenance on hera, that i can let pass)
if u did have cloak then the comm was an idiot for not scanning or getting mt or even armor1. sure the aliens can be experienced but if skill level is same then marine > skulk. vanilla.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then stay still when they come inside for christs sake! Once the last one passes you up, (just barely) make a dropdown and kill him, and then jump/strafe towards the next one and finish him off. If you cant do it, your a n00b, because I can and Im not even that great. Im sure you can do it to, but the excessive whinning has made you innept.
Second, you only get 4 scanner sweeps in one big interval, and the comm isnt going to scanner sweep EVERY room his marines head into. Get behind a crate, and hope they dont see you. If they pass you up and you think they saw you, bite him! Just get as close as possible! That is ALL you need to worry about!
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->as for mt ... its quite possible to have MT, armor1, weapons1 and armory upgrading within 5 minutes. not to mention the amount of rfk your marines get off dead skulks, because mt is totally superior against skulks. its horribly overpowering in a pub with decent marines, cant say much about clan play. but anyways the trick of fast upgrading is this:<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then in 5 minutes, it is also possible for someone to have saved his 25 res long enough to get a Fade, therefor taking out marines by the handful, as well as electrified res nodes or turret farms. Going from Skulk to Fade is a large jump in power and health, so, if you dont like getting killed a skulk, get a Fade, and dont die! If a fade has the ability to take out a Phase Gate and a Turret Farm, then I think you have something worth power there, do you not? We dont need an Onos Skulk, we need SMART skulks, not idiots who are tired of being shot when they rush the enemy head on.
For some reason, in ALL your arguments, if a skulk kills a marine, the marine is automatically deemed a n00b. Hes not a n00b, the skulk killed him equally as a marine kills a skulk. If we kill 3, we got the dropdown and surprise on them, meaning we picked a good hiding spot or we were patient with our attacks! Stop labeling skulk-killed marines as n00bs, because it is the stupidest and worst argument addition you can put into this at the moment. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/mad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-milosis+Sep 5 2004, 08:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (milosis @ Sep 5 2004, 08:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> marines can no longer listen for the res node to determine the hive location in the begginning of the game which allows aliens to spread out more and the marines to be more on alert, which slows them down.
knockback is reduced so basically if u land one bite, or swipe u can land them all <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Finding the hive takes only slightly more time now. All you've got to do as comm is drop rts at the hive res nodes at the start...the one that doesn't drop is the hive...not too difficult.
Knockback has been reduced but it's still a pain in the ****...marines can still get a knockback to the other side of a medium sized room.
One way you can tell is where the skulks are coming from more frequently, and where most of the alien res nodes are at. That always works, or, you can do a manual check.
<!--QuoteBegin-Recoup+Sep 7 2004, 05:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Recoup @ Sep 7 2004, 05:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Actually it was Lerky Jerky with the player [On|E]Brimstone and [On|E]Stall, both respectable players, calmly jogging down a hallway in a map we dont play often enough (though I forget the name, its the very dark map that reminds me of mineshaft) and I waited calmly in a vent near the ceiling, and peeked out when I heard them jog by. So, I let myself fall out, hit the ground, bite Brimstone in the **** and after a few bites, kill him, whilst Stall makes a mad shot as I dash up the wall and make a drop on his head and bite him. Both marines are dead, both had armor 2, one with an HMG, one with a Shotgun. A little less random for you, oh "master of all that are servers and judgement"? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I really don't see a point of this experience. I mean it's cool if we posted our rare times of triumph, but what we need now is what happens most of the time...
I think skulks should get buffed by making their upgrades cost 0. That way nothing serious has to be changed and it still requires chambers to be made. Of course you would have to remove upgrades every time the player changes forms...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In the description, it clearly stated (In italics if I am not mistaken) the skulk was meant to be an ambush unit.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, it is. But without cloaking/silence, the skulk is no more of an ambush unit than a gorge. The skulk is loud, it's detected on motion tracking and every player worth the title checks corners and ceilings. Pulling off ambushes with DMS isn't just difficult: it only happens if the marines are sub-par.
I really don't understand you Recoup. You love the idea of the skulk being an ambush unit, but you're fanatically opposed to allowing them the freedom to chose upgrades that allow them to ambush: by unchaining the chambers.
For the last time, you dont NEED cloak, and you dont NEED silence to be a good ambush skulk! You guys keep wanting the skulk to have the ability to take a full LMG clip and still manage to kill the marine! WAIT AROUND A GOD DANG CORNER! All you have to do is get as CLOSE as possible to the marine, not so that he doesnt SEE you! If he is within biting range, your job has been accomplished, and you are free to bite his chops off. That is ALL you need. Once the marine turns the corner and sees you, bite him! You are in range, so BITE HIM!
<!--QuoteBegin-Recoup+Sep 8 2004, 05:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Recoup @ Sep 8 2004, 05:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You guys keep wanting the skulk to have the ability to take a full LMG clip and still manage to kill the marine! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I have never ever even once seen someone say this.
It is not very easy to ambush a GOOD marine. And once they get motion tracking, you better hope you have a second hive going for leap because ambushing doesn't work anymore.
What about an early MT rush, Recoup. You can have MT up and running within 2 minutes of the game.
THE HIVE TAKES 3 MINUTES TO BUILD AND COSTS 50 RES AND YOU ONLY START WITH 25.
Jeez, Recoup, I think you just oppose buffing the skulk because you realize it's so ridiculously easy to kill them with an LMG as a marine that you always play marine.
Rapier, that is about the stupidest thing I have heard from you the entire time you have been on this board.
I always play marine, eh?
Well lets get semi-psycotic, StinkBugg, Wake_Jumper, borninshadow, and have them vouch for me. They can say that I do, quite often, play alien. And they can also tell you how much easier it has gotten to rush marine bases within two minutes of the game. All you have is "yeah, well I bet you play marine!" and I have witnesses who play on the server (the ONLY server) that I myself play on every day. So, before running your yap, have something to back it up.
Ok, so, you can rush MT early in the game. Then get sensory. If you say "Well then the Fades wont have a chance!" then say "Well tough luck. I thought we were worrying about skulks, not fades!"
We actually just recently lost a game to sensory aliens. Kinda weird. Sensory fade kicked our **** because we couldnt see where he was until it was too late. <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
But tell me, out of 10 times, what are the chances a comm will rush motion tracking?
1/10. Very slim. I rarely see comm's do it, and if they do, you just wasted the resources to get an obs and motion tracking, that could have been spent getting more resources, or just a bit more res for armor 1 or weapons 1.
So far, you guys can only say "Well what IF!" Yeah, well what if I was Santa Clause. You sure wouldnt be getting any presents this year.
Dude, MT rushes are pretty damn common. I'd say 4/10 every game some comm rushes MT before A1.
You lost that game due to commander incompetence.
And that was a jab, moron, I just refuse to believe that a person could be so inredibly stupid as to say that skulks do not need even the slightest buff.
Recoup its just that you havn't got the proof for your points, nor even credibility. You play on decent servers with decent marines. Going to Lerky Jerky for me would be a trip to stroke my ego; and I am by no means a great player. There are tiers of playing and tiers of understanding.
You need to understand that people do ambush, they do find remote areas, they DO use their noggin when planning an assault. It not enough though. I'm not sure what you think gives you the right to say your method is right anyway, if a good player manages to outkill you by rushing into rines dodging and bhopping, whose to say that ambushing is a more valid tactic?
Sure, the manual says skulks are meant to ambush. It also NEGLECTS to mention they can increase their speed standardly by 170% with BHopping.
ChurchMeatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2Join Date: 2002-12-31Member: 11646Members, Constellation
To help against spawn camping, why not give both sides say...a 2 second invincibility period after spawning? That'd give anyone enough time to evolve.
And then, make it so if you're evolving within healing range of the hive AND you're alreayd at full health, your egg is invincible for the duration of that evolution.
IMO the best solution would be to make evolve times instantaneous in combat, and make it so that marines spawn without HA/JP (they'd have to re-upgrade it).
Recoup, your arguement of "Skulks don't suck, you all suck" simply holds no weight whatsoever. You can claim to be an "uber skulk", and maybe you really do get great kill tallies. But the fact of the matter is that an overwhelming percentage of the community, including members of top clans, claim that the skulk is underpowered and unable to efficiently ambush things. In addition to that every top clan uses DMS nine times out of ten, using sens or mov only as a shock tactic that the other side won't expect.
The easiest way to buff the skulk and allow it to become a true ambush unit is to unchain the chambers. This also gives the alien side a much needed boost.
Revert back to 1.04/2.01 with small nerfs.. bug fixes.. leave it at that. Problem solved. Hell, just revert back and don't worry about bug fixes if you don't want. Go work on NS for HL2 and leave us a goody old version to play with.
I cannot even begin to imagine where the development team is attempting to take this game (and since they won't actually enlighten the gaming community with USEFUL information on their front page.. that is all we can do.. 'imagine').
Balance is no where to be seen for a 12-20 player *PUBLIC* game.
Playing as a marine now is just like playing duck hunt. Point, shoot, win.
The jetpack sound is awful.
Combat is screwed. I've said this before... I originally hated it when combat first hit the scene. I didn't like the idea of a simple game mode splitting up the community. Then.. once it was discovered how unbalanced classic became.. combat became a savior. Now, both game types are FUBAR. *clap* *clap*
Give us back our babblers (or something alike).. our good ol' BAST.. the old alien resource system.. remove the lame **** jetpack sound.. AND LET IT BE.
Comments
But the point is as smoodcoozn said, the aliens need some kind of defence when they spawn (not too much though, as I noticed that the rine attack falters when they think a spawn wave is about to happen and the group spawning helps take down a rine or two). But when it gets into the later game, the aliens have no way to stop heavies or jp in the hive because there is no chance to evolve.
I must say though, that each big change in NS has bought on a new way of playing. So donn't bag it untill you've had enough time to adjust...
Indeed. Maybe just have the option to devolve instead of always spawning as a skulk.
However, people say "Buff the skulks! They need more buffing!"
Basically what people are looking for is a skulk who can take a full clip from an LMG that forces the player to whip out his pistol and waste his ammo trying to finish the skulk off. You dont seem to understand.
In the description, it clearly stated (In italics if I am not mistaken) the skulk was meant to be an ambush unit. This doesnt mean you charge a team of marines head on, and when you die say "OMG! SKULK NEEDS BUFFS!"
You are supposed to wait on ceilings, hide alongside doors, wait behind walls or computers, or wait in vent. I am so sick of seeing people rush marine teams. Its stupid. In fact, if you are smart, you can take out a decent sized team of three marines without taking excessive damage. I am a purely average player and have taken out squads of marines before by myself as a skulk (Even with shotguns)
Here is a hint: <i>Stop rushing marine teams head on!</i>
That is why it is only two bites to kill a vanilla marine. Anything beyond that is three or four. However, if you are forced to run at a marine, at least do it in a group of two or so, and if not, then strafe, leap up in the air, be erratic, run up the wall and the ceilings in circular patterns. Believe me, they cant hit you very easily that way.
So, heres a hint, do not suggest that skulks need beefing, because anything beyond what they have now would be overpowering them. Leave them be.
Obviously you haven't played alien's in classic and combat in beta 5 from the look's of thing's. The only real benefit the alien's received at all in this version was the ability to regenerate health to armor, which still doesn't help at all because an HMG displace's damage faster than a hive and three dc's for an Onos or Fade. The marine's received a fixed shotgun with sprites, making the shotgun about 25% more deadlier than before if used in the right hands. Also, have you tried Fade at all? I didn't see anywhere in the changelog listing the Fade will not stop instantly when it run's out of energy instead of getting a "partial" boost jump to aid it from death like in beta 4a. I know there's many way's to avoid doing that, but it's inevitable that you're going to run out of energy because of a quick reaction to run away.
Also, the extra 350 carapace on Onos only make's it able to survive an extra 10-15 HMG round's depending on how many hive's they have; not much of a change at all because nobody bothers to get carapace in classic. Even under fire, regen will heal enough HP back to take more than enough HMG rounds. Oh, yeah. Who actually uses redeem in classic on a regular basis? I'm sure none of you do.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->However, people say "Buff the skulks! They need more buffing!"<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
People say buff the Skulk because a lone marine can take out three charging Skulk's with his LMG and pistol because of the distance gap. Do you know how <i>unfun</i> it is to die instantly from one shotgun or six HMG round's or one grenade from a GL hitting you from six feet away while you're on the roof?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Basically what people are looking for is a skulk who can take a full clip from an LMG that forces the player to whip out his pistol and waste his ammo trying to finish the skulk off. You dont seem to understand.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We're looking to stand a chance against a marine at close quarter's. Once the marine's receieve armor 1 and weapon 1, you'll be lucky to even kill one or two marine's if they have a distance gap over three feet or less.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You are supposed to wait on ceilings, hide alongside doors, wait behind walls or computers, or wait in vent. I am so sick of seeing people rush marine teams. Its stupid. In fact, if you are smart, you can take out a decent sized team of three marines without taking excessive damage. I am a purely average player and have taken out squads of marines before by myself as a skulk (Even with shotguns)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Obviously you got lucky or the marine's were complete dumbasses if you took out a whole squad of marine's. Honestly, hiding above roof's around corner's doesn't work at all because I'm so well trained in this game that I check every corner and roof everytime I pass through a doorway. Once you get motion tracking, you can predict almost every alien movement by simply hitting the m key to pull out the minimap. I'm not saying ambushing isn't effective, I'm saying it's something that isn't as viable anymore because of marine's who aren't stupid and know how an alien play's.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So, heres a hint, do not suggest that skulks need beefing, because anything beyond what they have now would be overpowering them. Leave them be.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You honestly don't play aliens often, do you?
Is this about the Onos? No, this is about the skulk.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also, the extra 350 carapace on Onos only make's it able to survive an extra 10-15 HMG round's depending on how many hive's they have; not much of a change at all because nobody bothers to get carapace in classic. Even under fire, regen will heal enough HP back to take more than enough HMG rounds. Oh, yeah. Who actually uses redeem in classic on a regular basis? I'm sure none of you do.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again, this is about the Skulk and its problem. However, I use redemption almost every time I go Onos in games where resources are tight, because when playing maps, Ranger Alpha redempted at least 8 times before we brought him down with 5 HMG's pounding at the same time.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->People say buff the Skulk because a lone marine can take out three charging Skulk's with his LMG and pistol because of the distance gap. Do you know how <i>unfun</i> it is to die instantly from one shotgun or six HMG round's or one grenade from a GL hitting you from six feet away while you're on the roof?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A skulk can just as easily take out 3 marines by himself. Do you know how unfun it is to die after one focus bite? Not every marine has the ultimate aim where he can nail a skulk while he is clamoring up the wall, jumping down and then strage jumping towards the marine. As for the matter of GL's, you have a good 1.5 to 2 seconds before the grenade goes off, as well as the time when you hear him shoot the weapon. But by the time they have GL's, you should have Fades, maybe even Onos's.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->We're looking to stand a chance against a marine at close quarter's. Once the marine's receieve armor 1 and weapon 1, you'll be lucky to even kill one or two marine's if they have a distance gap over three feet or less.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have killed two marines at close range, one with a shotgun and one with an HMG, FROM BEHIND whilst hiding in the dark shadows, and of course, by the time they had HMG's, they were well into the upgrade list.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Obviously you got lucky or the marine's were complete dumbasses if you took out a whole squad of marine's. Honestly, hiding above roof's around corner's doesn't work at all because I'm so well trained in this game that I check every corner and roof everytime I pass through a doorway. Once you get motion tracking, you can predict almost every alien movement by simply hitting the m key to pull out the minimap. I'm not saying ambushing isn't effective, I'm saying it's something that isn't as viable anymore because of marine's who aren't stupid and know how an alien play's.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just because you dont check every viable corner doesnt make you a ****. Normally when marines travel in groups they keep their eyes on the pointman. I know, because I've seen it happen in games all over my months and experience of playing on several different servers. If the marine is experienced, then why cant the aliens be experienced? Its like all marine players are good and all alien players are n00bs. They all arent. But, again, unless you rush Motion Tracking within the first 5 minutes, you should have Fades, (Or Onos's in late games, since Motion Tracking is not vital) to deal with any marines aware of your moves.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You honestly don't play aliens often, do you?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Quite possibly more than you do.
might be a decent point if it wernt for 1 thing.
pretty much every half-decent player out there knows to check corners, check vents, check all those little hidey holes u mentioned.
an ambush only works if theyr NOT expecting it, cant count the amount of times ive been 1-hit shotgunned by a marine before it even showed him comen round the corner.
and with mt makes getting to an ambush spot without them seeing and KNOWING your there impossible unless you do it when theyr still a long way away, in which case you gota predict exactly where theyr going...,
to take groups of marines now, you need speed and take them from behind or infront or wherever most of em aint looken. and is it just me or does skulk seem to be getting SLOWER not faster...
it seems as if the new insult on NS is now "OMG you aliens F4ers!!1!!ONE!1"
actually its about all aliens. skulk mostly tho because its the one with the most issues.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->A skulk can just as easily take out 3 marines by himself. Do you know how unfun it is to die after one focus bite? Not every marine has the ultimate aim where he can nail a skulk while he is clamoring up the wall, jumping down and then strage jumping towards the marine. As for the matter of GL's, you have a good 1.5 to 2 seconds before the grenade goes off, as well as the time when you hear him shoot the weapon. But by the time they have GL's, you should have Fades, maybe even Onos's.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
k. sure it can, take out 3 vanilla marines on a pub that are distracted by something (ANOTHER SKULK MÀYBE?). but the thing is that those marines still suck. try to play on other servers than your own clan server, it could give u some experience.
and that gl argument is totally pointless. a gl should never be alone, he should be accompanied by 4+ other marines all carrying heavy weaponry.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I have killed two marines at close range, one with a shotgun and one with an HMG, FROM BEHIND whilst hiding in the dark shadows, and of course, by the time they had HMG's, they were well into the upgrade list.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
then they were noobs, distracted by something, deaf irl, lagging, just lost their armslab upgrades or something similar. u proved no point with that in fact u coulda just remained from telling us your random experience from a random pub.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Just because you dont check every viable corner doesnt make you a ****. Normally when marines travel in groups they keep their eyes on the pointman. I know, because I've seen it happen in games all over my months and experience of playing on several different servers. If the marine is experienced, then why cant the aliens be experienced? Its like all marine players are good and all alien players are n00bs. They all arent. But, again, unless you rush Motion Tracking within the first 5 minutes, you should have Fades, (Or Onos's in late games, since Motion Tracking is not vital) to deal with any marines aware of your moves.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
normally sane marines all keep their eyes and ears open no matter where they travel and who with. also the pointman was an idiot if he didnt see an uncloaked skulk. (except if room was for example maintenance on hera, that i can let pass)
if u did have cloak then the comm was an idiot for not scanning or getting mt or even armor1. sure the aliens can be experienced but if skill level is same then marine > skulk. vanilla.
as for mt ... its quite possible to have MT, armor1, weapons1 and armory upgrading within 5 minutes. not to mention the amount of rfk your marines get off dead skulks, because mt is totally superior against skulks. its horribly overpowering in a pub with decent marines, cant say much about clan play. but anyways the trick of fast upgrading is this:
no elec rt's
no tf's
no torrents.
yes mines for base
yes armslab/obs within first minute
and if armslab first then obs within 2 minutes and vice versa.
And not only is the knockback reduced, the whole knockback system was rewritten so its effects are more consistant and hit the target straight back rather than to one side, which makes getting multiple bites in as a skulk much easier.
<i>If someone died as for example a fade, the person have to wait for a while and then he/she get a menu up.
The menu, there you can choose what upgrade/lifeform you want to have/be before you spawn.
In that way, no one will get spawnkilled.
And to give mariens some chance, longer spawn time, but not much more.
And in that chase, its not the same spawn system as mariens.
2 different spawn system in 2 different teams.</i>
But, its only a idea. Dont know if its a good or bad system, or if it can work enough.
Wishlist for next patch
REMOVE THE FRIGGIN EVOLVE RES COSTS!
They're just totaly stupid. In the beginning of the game no one bothers to upgrade to save res. U die... no one cares... in the middle part you evolve into higher lifeform + upgrades... if you die... you lost 50 res... who the hell cares about that 4 extra ones?
Just rmeove that... its killing the fun and the flexibilty of the players.
I really belive that could beef the skullk enough...
Oh and something for CO. When you join late you should get the same xp as the lowest one on your team... than you got at least a lil chance of surviving.
and that gl argument is totally pointless. a gl should never be alone, he should be accompanied by 4+ other marines all carrying heavy weaponry.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For once, admit that if 3 decent marines get owned by a skulk (not distracted) then they arent n00bs. Lets say you had 3 half decent marines and an even MORE decent skulk. As I have said time, and time again, not every alien is going to rush out head on into a group of marines and kill them all. It takes timing, it takes skill, and believe me its there. A silence skulk is a powerful thing. But in the end, you dont have to worry about the marine not seeing you at ALL, you just have to worry about if he sees you long enough for you to get as close as possible to him.
That is exactly ALL you need to worry about is getting close enough to that marine to bite him without seeing you first. If he sees you then go evasive, dont run in a straight line like n00bs on a server do.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->then they were noobs, distracted by something, deaf irl, lagging, just lost their armslab upgrades or something similar. u proved no point with that in fact u coulda just remained from telling us your random experience from a random pub.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually it was Lerky Jerky with the player [On|E]Brimstone and [On|E]Stall, both respectable players, calmly jogging down a hallway in a map we dont play often enough (though I forget the name, its the very dark map that reminds me of mineshaft) and I waited calmly in a vent near the ceiling, and peeked out when I heard them jog by. So, I let myself fall out, hit the ground, bite Brimstone in the **** and after a few bites, kill him, whilst Stall makes a mad shot as I dash up the wall and make a drop on his head and bite him. Both marines are dead, both had armor 2, one with an HMG, one with a Shotgun. A little less random for you, oh "master of all that are servers and judgement"?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->normally sane marines all keep their eyes and ears open no matter where they travel and who with. also the pointman was an idiot if he didnt see an uncloaked skulk. (except if room was for example maintenance on hera, that i can let pass)
if u did have cloak then the comm was an idiot for not scanning or getting mt or even armor1. sure the aliens can be experienced but if skill level is same then marine > skulk. vanilla.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then stay still when they come inside for christs sake! Once the last one passes you up, (just barely) make a dropdown and kill him, and then jump/strafe towards the next one and finish him off. If you cant do it, your a n00b, because I can and Im not even that great. Im sure you can do it to, but the excessive whinning has made you innept.
Second, you only get 4 scanner sweeps in one big interval, and the comm isnt going to scanner sweep EVERY room his marines head into. Get behind a crate, and hope they dont see you. If they pass you up and you think they saw you, bite him! Just get as close as possible! That is ALL you need to worry about!
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->as for mt ... its quite possible to have MT, armor1, weapons1 and armory upgrading within 5 minutes. not to mention the amount of rfk your marines get off dead skulks, because mt is totally superior against skulks. its horribly overpowering in a pub with decent marines, cant say much about clan play. but anyways the trick of fast upgrading is this:<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then in 5 minutes, it is also possible for someone to have saved his 25 res long enough to get a Fade, therefor taking out marines by the handful, as well as electrified res nodes or turret farms. Going from Skulk to Fade is a large jump in power and health, so, if you dont like getting killed a skulk, get a Fade, and dont die! If a fade has the ability to take out a Phase Gate and a Turret Farm, then I think you have something worth power there, do you not? We dont need an Onos Skulk, we need SMART skulks, not idiots who are tired of being shot when they rush the enemy head on.
For some reason, in ALL your arguments, if a skulk kills a marine, the marine is automatically deemed a n00b. Hes not a n00b, the skulk killed him equally as a marine kills a skulk. If we kill 3, we got the dropdown and surprise on them, meaning we picked a good hiding spot or we were patient with our attacks! Stop labeling skulk-killed marines as n00bs, because it is the stupidest and worst argument addition you can put into this at the moment. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/mad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
knockback is reduced so basically if u land one bite, or swipe u can land them all <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Finding the hive takes only slightly more time now. All you've got to do as comm is drop rts at the hive res nodes at the start...the one that doesn't drop is the hive...not too difficult.
Knockback has been reduced but it's still a pain in the ****...marines can still get a knockback to the other side of a medium sized room.
I really don't see a point of this experience. I mean it's cool if we posted our rare times of triumph, but what we need now is what happens most of the time...
I think skulks should get buffed by making their upgrades cost 0. That way nothing serious has to be changed and it still requires chambers to be made. Of course you would have to remove upgrades every time the player changes forms...
Yes, it is. But without cloaking/silence, the skulk is no more of an ambush unit than a gorge. The skulk is loud, it's detected on motion tracking and every player worth the title checks corners and ceilings. Pulling off ambushes with DMS isn't just difficult: it only happens if the marines are sub-par.
I really don't understand you Recoup. You love the idea of the skulk being an ambush unit, but you're fanatically opposed to allowing them the freedom to chose upgrades that allow them to ambush: by unchaining the chambers.
I have never ever even once seen someone say this.
It is not very easy to ambush a GOOD marine. And once they get motion tracking, you better hope you have a second hive going for leap because ambushing doesn't work anymore.
THE HIVE TAKES 3 MINUTES TO BUILD AND COSTS 50 RES AND YOU ONLY START WITH 25.
Jeez, Recoup, I think you just oppose buffing the skulk because you realize it's so ridiculously easy to kill them with an LMG as a marine that you always play marine.
I always play marine, eh?
Well lets get semi-psycotic, StinkBugg, Wake_Jumper, borninshadow, and have them vouch for me. They can say that I do, quite often, play alien. And they can also tell you how much easier it has gotten to rush marine bases within two minutes of the game. All you have is "yeah, well I bet you play marine!" and I have witnesses who play on the server (the ONLY server) that I myself play on every day. So, before running your yap, have something to back it up.
Ok, so, you can rush MT early in the game. Then get sensory. If you say "Well then the Fades wont have a chance!" then say "Well tough luck. I thought we were worrying about skulks, not fades!"
We actually just recently lost a game to sensory aliens. Kinda weird. Sensory fade kicked our **** because we couldnt see where he was until it was too late. <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
But tell me, out of 10 times, what are the chances a comm will rush motion tracking?
1/10. Very slim. I rarely see comm's do it, and if they do, you just wasted the resources to get an obs and motion tracking, that could have been spent getting more resources, or just a bit more res for armor 1 or weapons 1.
So far, you guys can only say "Well what IF!" Yeah, well what if I was Santa Clause. You sure wouldnt be getting any presents this year.
Dude, MT rushes are pretty damn common. I'd say 4/10 every game some comm rushes MT before A1.
You lost that game due to commander incompetence.
And that was a jab, moron, I just refuse to believe that a person could be so inredibly stupid as to say that skulks do not need even the slightest buff.
You need to understand that people do ambush, they do find remote areas, they DO use their noggin when planning an assault. It not enough though. I'm not sure what you think gives you the right to say your method is right anyway, if a good player manages to outkill you by rushing into rines dodging and bhopping, whose to say that ambushing is a more valid tactic?
Sure, the manual says skulks are meant to ambush. It also NEGLECTS to mention they can increase their speed standardly by 170% with BHopping.
And then, make it so if you're evolving within healing range of the hive AND you're alreayd at full health, your egg is invincible for the duration of that evolution.
The easiest way to buff the skulk and allow it to become a true ambush unit is to unchain the chambers. This also gives the alien side a much needed boost.
I cannot even begin to imagine where the development team is attempting to take this game (and since they won't actually enlighten the gaming community with USEFUL information on their front page.. that is all we can do.. 'imagine').
Balance is no where to be seen for a 12-20 player *PUBLIC* game.
Playing as a marine now is just like playing duck hunt. Point, shoot, win.
The jetpack sound is awful.
Combat is screwed. I've said this before... I originally hated it when combat first hit the scene. I didn't like the idea of a simple game mode splitting up the community. Then.. once it was discovered how unbalanced classic became.. combat became a savior. Now, both game types are FUBAR. *clap* *clap*
Give us back our babblers (or something alike).. our good ol' BAST.. the old alien resource system.. remove the lame **** jetpack sound.. AND LET IT BE.
Thank you.... thank you. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->