Cant Hear Res Nodes For A Minute?

InsomniaInsomnia Join Date: 2003-06-10 Member: 17179Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Sorry but you fail.</div> When i read the changelog I saw that marines would actually require to spend time or resources on reconaissance. What a great change. So I commed a game. Found the hive each time i commed in under a minute. How? Cause you can hear skulks prancing around, while the empty hives are silent. I can hear eggs gestating. Honestly, whats the point of making res nodes silent if you can still find the hive.

Suggested change: Make comm unable to hear any sounds not created by marines or switches. Aliens should be completely silent to the comm. Preferabbly for the entire game. Or just the first minute.
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Comments

  • BuggyBuggy Join Date: 2003-11-08 Member: 22400Members, Constellation
    Yeah, I completely miss this logic as well.
  • keep_it_Gangstakeep_it_Gangsta Join Date: 2003-06-23 Member: 17632Members
  • SaltzBadSaltzBad Join Date: 2004-02-23 Member: 26833Members
    3 res worth of ammopacks, omg leet scouting. Yeah, which nubface came up with that idea?
  • InsomniaInsomnia Join Date: 2003-06-10 Member: 17179Members
    The ammo trick is ok to do. I mean you do spend resources on it.
  • the_x5the_x5 the Xzianthian Join Date: 2004-03-02 Member: 27041Members, Constellation
    edited September 2004
    One of the coolest things about NS is that you rely on sound as much as sight to play.

    Use it to find hives or enemy bases. Aliens hear someone building something (hear the sparking noise) and then hear the siege activation noise and get to warn the other teammates before it's too late. As a marine you hold still for second and hear the pitter-pat of skulk feet behind you and then suprise the cloaked sucker by spinning arround and pwning him with a shotgun at point blank. Or a skulk ambushing squad wait on the cieling and listens to the approaching marines, (marines are quite noisy) and ambush them the second they appear arround the corner. Leading to much wth and omg and oh-you-hax-because-you-just-owned-me.

    Sound is vital for successful gameplay in NS (try a game with no sound and see how bad things are for you.)
  • SaltzBadSaltzBad Join Date: 2004-02-23 Member: 26833Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Insomnia+Sep 7 2004, 04:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Insomnia @ Sep 7 2004, 04:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The ammo trick is ok to do. I mean you do spend resources on it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    3 res. Wow, really worthwhile gameplay change.
  • AlignAlign Remain Calm Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5216Forum Moderators, Constellation
    Only way to prevent THAT "exploit" would be to prevent any building unless a marine is within x units though. Which is a rather larger change.
  • crisanocrisano Join Date: 2004-09-01 Member: 31152Members
    A possible drastic change could be to let the commander hear only in a certain range of the other marines or the marine base. Like marines can hear stuff within a certain sphere range, make it the same for the comm, only being able to hear stuff within the sphere of his marines, perhaps boosted a little since logically, all input from the map that goes into the comm chair should come from the marines and the structures that are built. This could be rather complex to code though but I'm not a coder so I don't know.
  • ZekZek Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    Maybe disable all alien sounds for the first 30 seconds, and then just active res nodes for the next 30 seconds?
  • ForlornForlorn Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2634Banned
    1. The ammo pack trick is probably a bug

    2. The skulks making noise in their hive is due to poor players - Skulks have enough time to run out of the hive before the commander gets in the chair.

    3. This change was needed.
  • DantemssDantemss Join Date: 2003-12-13 Member: 24305Members
    Just don't let the comm drop anything exactly on the hive locations. In maps like ns_nothing (cargo hive) they shouldn't be allowed to anyway.

    And listening to sounds near the hive is ok. The comm will lose some precious seconds, since there are 3 hives with at least 6 possible exits. But the RT thing was almost instant.
  • That_Annoying_KidThat_Annoying_Kid Sire of Titles Join Date: 2003-03-01 Member: 14175Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Sep 8 2004, 09:10 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Sep 8 2004, 09:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 1. The ammo pack trick is probably a bug

    2. The skulks making noise in their hive is due to poor players - Skulks have enough time to run out of the hive before the commander gets in the chair.

    3. This change was needed. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    ^^

    Making the comm only be able to hear things around the marines makes sense from a story aspect, becuase the bacterium and the nanites effectively cancel each other out unless a marine or an alien is around
  • davidsansomedavidsansome Join Date: 2003-02-07 Member: 13228Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Sep 8 2004, 05:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Sep 8 2004, 05:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 2. The skulks making noise in their hive is due to poor players - Skulks have enough time to run out of the hive before the commander gets in the chair. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The comm can listen in the corridors surrounding the hive.
  • ZunniZunni The best thing to happen to I&amp;S in a long while Join Date: 2002-11-26 Member: 10016Members
    This was just the first step. The development team had a few ways to find the hive as well. But we needed to start it someplace. We chose to start it here.

    I'm suspecting this will continue to evolve/improve.
  • ForlornForlorn Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2634Banned
    edited September 2004
    <!--QuoteBegin-davidsansome+Sep 8 2004, 01:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (davidsansome @ Sep 8 2004, 01:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Sep 8 2004, 05:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Sep 8 2004, 05:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 2.  The skulks making noise in their hive is due to poor players -  Skulks have enough time to run out of the hive before the commander gets in the chair. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The comm can listen in the corridors surrounding the hive. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    And from that he can deduce between 2 hives, never just one.

    Well, on most maps anyhow.
  • matsomatso Master of Patches Join Date: 2002-11-05 Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
    Forcing drops to be within a certain range of marines, and block out sound for the commander unless a marine is withing a certain range should keep the hive location secret for the first minute or two.
  • InsomniaInsomnia Join Date: 2003-06-10 Member: 17179Members
    Hooray for Zunni for letting me know what the devs think. Peace of mind has been reached <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->.

    I like the only sounds that marines can hear idea.
  • HybridclawHybridclaw Join Date: 2003-11-03 Member: 22271Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Sep 8 2004, 02:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Sep 8 2004, 02:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-davidsansome+Sep 8 2004, 01:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (davidsansome @ Sep 8 2004, 01:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Sep 8 2004, 05:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Sep 8 2004, 05:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 2.  The skulks making noise in their hive is due to poor players -  Skulks have enough time to run out of the hive before the commander gets in the chair. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The comm can listen in the corridors surrounding the hive. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    And from that he can deduce between 2 hives, never just one.

    Well, on most maps anyhow. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    or there could be a gorge building at the hive the comm could hear
  • GunFodderGunFodder Join Date: 2004-02-15 Member: 26572Members
    What about the tried and true method of dropping RTs on each hive res node? That will be hard to prevent and is free.
  • ForlornForlorn Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2634Banned
    Except that it costs res, recycling only gives back 80% of total cost
  • IcejellyIcejelly Join Date: 2003-06-10 Member: 17176Members
    AFAIK a pack of ammo only costs 1 res. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • mirrodinmirrodin Join Date: 2004-06-29 Member: 29621Members
    I've commed a very successful shottie/ip rush once I found the hive. It's Eciplse. Build 3 or 4 ips, armoury, drop everyone shotties. Rush hive. If your team is competent they rip through skulks and gorges, meds and extra ammo are given as required. PhaseEQ is helpful.

    Once it is impossible to find the hive this tactic will be useless and/or less usefull.

    Good night everyone.
  • AlignAlign Remain Calm Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5216Forum Moderators, Constellation
    You speak of the PhaseEQ plugin. Did you play with it during this rush or was it just an idle comment? If not, shouldn't you already have an obs?
  • niaccurshiniaccurshi Join Date: 2002-12-30 Member: 11629Members, Constellation
    Personally I think it's all gone to pot. Marine comms that aren't so good are now accidently stumbling on alien first hives, and it **** the whole game up. let comms here everything again, it doesn't matter. Those interested in fun games will start hive lock downs, those interested in winning, or playing clan games, will rush...no biggy. It's a very small issue in the end, and I think it'd be more preferable not to have average comms stumbling in and ruining the game for their team and their opponents.
  • OtsOts Join Date: 2003-07-30 Member: 18577Members, Constellation
    Where is it stated that once you hop in to the cc you magically hear but you dont see everything. Where every alien moves or where the gorgs are building resnodes. Thats like having a sucky MT right from the start.

    I'd say ditch every possibility for the commander to hear anything expect when theres your everyday marine seeing and hearing the things you normally would if your in the cc(well hearing anyways). If the COMM wants to know where everythings going, take MT. Its an upgrade, its viable. AND its good. Take it then.


    IMHO, Marines are too powerfull in classic nowadays, how about we set the hallucination that Commander is there to command, and the marines on the fields are his/her eyes and ears for a change, not the other way around.


    As a side note, whats the purpose of COMM being able to use elevators and other switch operated thing? Sure its handy if coordinated, but its kinda dumb too imo.
  • TaaketaTaaketa Join Date: 2004-02-10 Member: 26357Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Ots+Sep 12 2004, 07:05 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ots @ Sep 12 2004, 07:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> As a side note, whats the purpose of COMM being able to use elevators and other switch operated thing? Sure its handy if coordinated, but its kinda dumb too imo. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    So that when the Comm heres that last ditch attempt Onos coming through a door he can close it on him and kill the Onos.
  • niaccurshiniaccurshi Join Date: 2002-12-30 Member: 11629Members, Constellation
    As was said in another thread, good comms also use the sound of where your hive is to decide on how to play the game, and how long to make it etc. Letting comms hear where the hive is isn't going to make things harder for Aliens, but it is going to mean those comms with a heart wont' also stumble into a rush tactic by accident.

    As for operating switches and doors, why is that such a negative thing?
  • OtsOts Join Date: 2003-07-30 Member: 18577Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-niaccurshi+Sep 12 2004, 08:37 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (niaccurshi @ Sep 12 2004, 08:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> As was said in another thread, good comms also use the sound of where your hive is to decide on how to play the game, and how long to make it etc. Letting comms hear where the hive is isn't going to make things harder for Aliens, but it is going to mean those comms with a heart wont' also stumble into a rush tactic by accident.

    As for operating switches and doors, why is that such a negative thing? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Being played alot of pcw/scrims i constantly see things like comm picking up the elevator so the onos/fade cant get away from a hmg/sg/lmg spraying the walls with green blood. Which imo gives the rine team too much advantage over them.

    Things like Onos, its big, hard to miss, its slow, even with celerity its easily killable. Let alone now when JP fully counters it. I hate that, i'v seen how easy and handy it is when a comm narrows the possibility for the onos/fade get away by picking that little elevator up by pressing a switch.

    IMHO, its gives the rines too much of an advantage.
  • niaccurshiniaccurshi Join Date: 2002-12-30 Member: 11629Members, Constellation
    That's really an issue with Onos's weakness in NS, and the onos player being poor. If the comm is spending his time concentrating on stopping an onos get away then ultimately he's not concentrating on something else on the map.
  • ForlornForlorn Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2634Banned
    <!--QuoteBegin-niaccurshi+Sep 12 2004, 01:01 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (niaccurshi @ Sep 12 2004, 01:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Personally I think it's all gone to pot. Marine comms that aren't so good are now accidently stumbling on alien first hives, and it **** the whole game up. let comms here everything again, it doesn't matter. Those interested in fun games will start hive lock downs, those interested in winning, or playing clan games, will rush...no biggy. It's a very small issue in the end, and I think it'd be more preferable not to have average comms stumbling in and ruining the game for their team and their opponents. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    what? hive lock downs are fun WHAT?

    Btw hive rushing is fun, lots of action for everyone... your oppinions are opposite of the majority.


    Hive lockdowns suck, I think anyone will agree
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