And so what? It's not like we're talking about segregating black players and white players here...when it is actually BETTER to have them integrated. We're talking about two groups of people that hate each other...scripters (big or small) who hate people ignorantly whining about their lack of skill and needing to use scripts, and those against it that hate playing with people that use scripts.
Go ahead, segregate them...no problem really is there, it keeps both parties happy.
<!--QuoteBegin-coris+Sep 7 2004, 04:28 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (coris @ Sep 7 2004, 04:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Can some de give me a reason why you wont give anyone a personal preference whether they chose to bunnyhop with the mousewheel or a 3jumpscript? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Because so many people whined when they found out blockscripts would block +commands on mousewheel, that that feature was removed. So now you're complaining about that?
to script or not to script that is the question.... quite difficult indeed it is to unravel . but I find the main reason for all the tension and people feeling this way or that way, is because people either A- use scripts or B- don't, and so the problem araises wen you have A type people and B type people playing agaisnt each other, if everyone was type A or type B there wouldn't be an issue but there is.
which brings us to where we are now. it seems clear that theres no simple silution to this. of course we could allways just seperate the two types, with scipters here and non scripters there... but I believe that such a division would weaken and possible tear the community apart in time. so there must be a better silution
so lets now try to think why people like to script
1- it enables them to use advantages to enhance there gaming skill
2- it can make the game a little more action pack and fun when its brought up to the higher level
3- lets face it, some scripts can really help you kick butt agaisnt people that don't know/want to know how they work
and now lets look why some poeple don't script
1- they feel its "cheap" or not meant to be done
2- they can pull their wiehgt in game just fine without them
3 and of course there are those who just hate scripts cuz there not smart enough to figure out how out how to use them, so they just become bitter and angry
so how to we fix this? well we can make everyone brought onto equal ground by adding more build in stuff to the game , like perhaps leap/bites and blink/swipes that way everyone would have access to them and it'd take care of the moron whiners and level the playing field a bit, then of course we could just get rid of all scripts all together and force everyone to play the game without them and I'm not saying if thats what should be done or not I'm just saying it would make everyone play on the same level
and thus... in conclusion, we see that scripting or the lack there of is a very complex and deep thing... and quite frankly I'm not exactly sure what should be done about it.
It's easy to script. Leveling the playing field is a bunch of bolshevik. If you wanted to do that, force everyone's fps to 10 and yadayadayada just so that people with better CPU's don't have an advantage because heaven forbid that's unfair and everyone knows FPS is skill.
If you really hate scripts that must, use them. "If you ca't beat 'em, join 'em" It couldn't possibly be easier to script, and the folks at #nsguides and #nslearn would probably be happy to help. It's so easy to learn how to script. If you really hate it that much try it out yourself. Once you get past the holier than thou attitude you come to realize it's not that bad.
So my suggestion to all non-scripters is, try out scripting, and tell us your thoughts. And I'm serious, don't rant about it and pretend you tried it, actually try it out.
<!--QuoteBegin-Alkiller+Sep 12 2004, 10:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Alkiller @ Sep 12 2004, 10:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It's easy to script. Leveling the playing field is a bunch of bolshevik. If you wanted to do that, force everyone's fps to 10 and yadayadayada just so that people with better CPU's don't have an advantage because heaven forbid that's unfair and everyone knows FPS is skill.
If you really hate scripts that must, use them. "If you ca't beat 'em, join 'em" It couldn't possibly be easier to script, and the folks at #nsguides and #nslearn would probably be happy to help. It's so easy to learn how to script. If you really hate it that much try it out yourself. Once you get past the holier than thou attitude you come to realize it's not that bad.
So my suggestion to all non-scripters is, try out scripting, and tell us your thoughts. And I'm serious, don't rant about it and pretend you tried it, actually try it out. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> So you basicly devoted that topic to say that if a person wants to start playing NS, he must at first get himself a good computer to have good fps. And beside that your saying they should learn how to make/use scripts so they can be as good as the another guy.
My personal opinion is that skill shouldn’t be based on learning difficult techniques/moves or scripting. As an extreme example you can take Adrenaline Gamer HL. Newbie’s don’t have any chance there because the main skill is in bunny hopping, gaus/rocket/grenade-jumping and intense scripting. TFC is a similar thing. This pushes off any newbie’s and prevents the community from growing.
Natural-Selection is hard for newbie’s because of the strategy part and different alien life forms. It’s frustrating for newbie’s getting raped by bunny hopping skulks or get insta-killed with a pistol scripts.
If the community wants bunny hopping or blink/slash I'm fine with it but make it as default usable for all. Or remove it completely.
For all players out want to keep their “secret lore” to have an advantage over the average gamer I suggest to play a little AG-HL as newbie.
Jhunz, i don't think coris was complaining but rather pointing out the stupidity of it all. People use a 3jump to bunnyhop, people use a mousewheel to bunnyhop. Yet because the worlds glorious perception on scripting one is illegal and other is fine even though they both achieve EXACTLY THE SAME GOD DAMN RESULTS. It really boils down to preference and what you feel comfortable with. I don't feel comfortable using mousewheel to jump so i use spacebar. It's nearly impossible to time the jumps without an error at some point so i use a 3jump script which has the same effect as just rolling my mouswheel.
In my opinion blockscripts is totally unneeded and the devs would of been far better off putting effort into actually fixing the bugs that some <b>abusive</b> scripts could exploit rather than just removing them all together. And whetever you like it or not the community has been further divided, as if the whole pubber and clanner thing wasn't enough.
I really can't believe there is so much whine about this.
The only problem I can see is that with blockscripts on, the lack of 3jump is gonna hurt skulk bunnyhopping, which imo IS a bad thing. Bhopping is a very important part of a hard skulk game.
Blockscripts is getting rid of stuff like leap/bite and blink/swipe. There are people here suggesting that this seems to be a bad thing?! As simply as I can put it: Instead of switching to blink, pressing attack, switching to swipe, pressing attack we have press one button. Hmm. Just me or?
The rest of this bollocks about switching weapons and stuff, jesus christ COME ON. Get aquainted with buttons 1,2,3,4 and lastinv and their friend hud_fastswitch 1. You just don't need anything else fgs.
Anything blocked by blockscripts other than 3 jump is either malicious or plain trivial. Stop whining please.
Concentrate on the huge divide between marine/alien play instead or perhaps the dying clan scene due to ns' downhill.
<!--QuoteBegin-I_Am_The_Force+Sep 13 2004, 04:30 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (I_Am_The_Force @ Sep 13 2004, 04:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> blockscipts is a joke. You own a pub with mp_blockscripts 1 just as hard with a little more work. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Exactly the point. Scripting makes it less work, i.e. easier. So some people prefer to play with scripts off.
And btw using hud_fastswitch 1 is far superior to lastinv imo, as you can switch between 3 attacks. e.g. as a Fade you can blink, swipe, blink, then metabolise whilst blinking away, switch back to blink then swipe and then metabolise inmid air again... with lastinv you wouldnt be able to switch between those 3 attacks as easily.
The only scripts that i really didnt approve of were pistol and special scripts, its a shame putting mp_blockscripts 0 means that special scripts are enabled, it kind of forces people to use blockscripts 1. Special scripts making bhopping extremely easy, and allow for controlled pistol scripts, if you didnt know. If anything needs to be changed, mp_blockscripts 0 needs to block special imo. You still need skill to bunnyhop with 3 jump or mwheel, whereas youd have to be braindead not to be able to bhop with special script.
Btw do you really think the devs wanted to block weapon switching scripts? No, they wanted to block the more abusive scripts e.g. pistol. Anyone who implies that the purpose of blockscripts was to block weaponswitches or ammo call binds or whatever is a) actually stupid or b) is just angry that blockscripts disables their 3jump or leapbite scripts.
Just block _special with blockscripts and all will be fine, the svar would then be truely optional, down to personal preference. Personally i know that i wont be playing any clan matches with blockscripts on 0.
Anyone who is good with Skulks or Fades knows why Leap/Bite and Blink/Swipe are crappy scripts. While "OMG it's one button instead of 4" sounds logical on the most basic level, the simple fact is that timing is everything with those combos, and with those particular scripts the timing is <u>set in stone</u>. Let's say you make a script that leaps and then bites after about half a second. Well, that's only going to hit someone that's a certain distance away from you. If they're too close or too far(and they almost always will be), you're screwed. An experienced player can perfect the timing for those combos at any distance.
Honestly I wish Flayra would just implement 3jump into normal jump and disable the rest of the fast-action scripts so we don't have to listen to the stupid complaints about them anymore.
<b>Serverside</b> commands that are part of a script are blocked. Which is why romanos clientside lastinv script works. Cough. (supposedly slot1 and the like are also clientside now though)
<!--QuoteBegin-sej+Sep 13 2004, 10:13 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (sej @ Sep 13 2004, 10:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-I_Am_The_Force+Sep 13 2004, 04:30 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (I_Am_The_Force @ Sep 13 2004, 04:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> blockscipts is a joke. You own a pub with mp_blockscripts 1 just as hard with a little more work. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Exactly the point. Scripting makes it less work, i.e. easier. So some people prefer to play with scripts off.
And btw using hud_fastswitch 1 is far superior to lastinv imo, as you can switch between 3 attacks. e.g. as a Fade you can blink, swipe, blink, then metabolise whilst blinking away, switch back to blink then swipe and then metabolise inmid air again... with lastinv you wouldnt be able to switch between those 3 attacks as easily.
The only scripts that i really didnt approve of were pistol and special scripts, its a shame putting mp_blockscripts 0 means that special scripts are enabled, it kind of forces people to use blockscripts 1. Special scripts making bhopping extremely easy, and allow for controlled pistol scripts, if you didnt know. If anything needs to be changed, mp_blockscripts 0 needs to block special imo. You still need skill to bunnyhop with 3 jump or mwheel, whereas youd have to be braindead not to be able to bhop with special script.
Btw do you really think the devs wanted to block weapon switching scripts? No, they wanted to block the more abusive scripts e.g. pistol. Anyone who implies that the purpose of blockscripts was to block weaponswitches or ammo call binds or whatever is a) actually stupid or b) is just angry that blockscripts disables their 3jump or leapbite scripts.
Just block _special with blockscripts and all will be fine, the svar would then be truely optional, down to personal preference. Personally i know that i wont be playing any clan matches with blockscripts on 0. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Leapbite scripts suck. As do blinkswipe scripts. The best fades in the world do not use these scripts. No one should use them, they limit your game. Banning them therefore is irrelevent.
try... bind attack "mouse 1" bind movement "arrow keys" bind weapon swich numbers "numpad 1, 2, 3, and 4" hud_fastswich 1 as skulk, press numpad 3 with 2nd hive or next ability 1, leap and quickly press numpad 1, when in close enough range of target, (Marine) proceed to click your mouse for a sucessful hit <span style='font-size:7pt;line-height:100%'><span style='font-family:Courier'>sucessful hit may not always happen if the marine is not a total idiot</span></span>
this document is also avalable for those with WSAD for movement keys, but at the price of $5CAD.
<!--QuoteBegin-Avenger-X+Sep 12 2004, 10:31 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Avenger-X @ Sep 12 2004, 10:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> so lets now try to think why people like to script
1- it enables them to use advantages to enhance their gaming skill
2- it can make the game a little more action pack and fun when its brought up to the higher level
3- lets face it, some scripts can really help you kick butt agaisnt people that don't know/want to know how they work
and now lets look why some people don't script
1- they feel its "cheap" or not meant to be done
2- they can pull their wiehgt in game just fine without them
3 and of course there are those who just hate scripts cuz there not smart enough to figure out how out how to use them, so they just become bitter and angry
so how to we fix this? well we can make everyone brought onto equal ground by adding more build in stuff to the game , like perhaps leap/bites and blink/swipes that way everyone would have access to them and it'd take care of the moron whiners and level the playing field a bit, then of course we could just get rid of all scripts all together and force everyone to play the game without them and I'm not saying if thats what should be done or not I'm just saying it would make everyone play on the same level
and thus... in conclusion, we see that scripting or the lack there of is a very complex and deep thing... and quite frankly I'm not exactly sure what should be done about it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> So true. One of the biggest false statements of the anti-scripters group is that legit use of the software is "bad" and "cheap" when in reality it requires skill to code and execute properly. If you don't believe me then I can reprogram a whichbot for you and let you see how stupid the thing is when it doesn't use the scripts properly. Bunny hopping into a corner because you can't climb up the wall is so stupid looking it's funny. Blink-slashing still takes a clever ammount of skill to use properly. I mean if you can't blink well then who care if you have a really good script. You'll just suck that much more. lol
In all seriousness though, I personally don't have as much need to use the scripts because of my unusual key configuration, but it's not fair to other who don't have a customized mouse like me so they have to raise up their lack of the best hardware with some intelligent use of software. There are instances where going over to press the slot1 key after holding down on blink is bad because I use my right hand to mouselook and left hand to handle the arrow keys to contol my movement. If I had a third hand then I wouldn't need a script like that. But you see I don't. I mean, what if a handicapped person was trying to play NS? Your telling me he can't script because he has only one hand?! That's not fair at all. (I know someone like this so back off flamers)
Conclusion:
<span style='color:yellow'><b>"Every man or woman needs to have what ever setup necessary that fits them to have fun and function to the best of their ability"</b></span>
-- x7
I prefer not to debate. I don't understand why this is a discussion. (not why we are different, why we can't ignore our differences) If you don't like someone because they do/don't script... ok. That's okay that you feel that way. Say it to yourself: it's ok that I feel hate for this person.
What you <span style='color:red'>don't</span> do is <span style='color:red'>force</span> others to follow your way. If someone wants to play with a fov of 160, fine. If someone can't type out a message to call for backup in under a second, fine. Do what ever you need to do to function to your best, but god damnit do not force others to follow you. That's acting exactly like a Nha Si' Marat. Voogru you mean well by trying to have a level/equal playing field, but you are being willfully ignorant of your desire to exert your methods on others. It should also be mentioned that is there is a blockade, there is a way though it. A blockade is a difficult to construct, maintain, and causes more resentment. The best thing to do is to alway eliminate the problem at the cause rather and at the effect. A simple way to do this is to make commands that do the useful things that a script does, thus eliminating imbalance (as you see it) at the cause. Pistol scripts? A solution is to make an aiming rectile that has varible accuracy depending on movement, much like the ones in Ghost Recon. This eliminates the functionality of the pistols script because one's aiming get's really bad the split second after you fire.
One last example of something NS has done correctly to quell imbalances: motion tracking & SoF - eliminates desire or a wallhack or ESP
I do believe that it has been clarified this isn't Voogru's will, he merely fixed the bugs in the system that was put in before he was "hired"?
And it's not forcing anyone...most servers, I imagine, will still allow scripts perfectly fine...let the elitist servers that have this idiotic notion that scripts are tantamount to hax0ring keep their no script servers, it keeps their whining off of the script allowed servers I play on.
obuhNot Quite Smart at NSJoin Date: 2003-03-31Member: 15072Members, Constellation
edited September 2004
Well voogru has made the matter quite of a personal war against the evil scripts. And he has shown in <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=74571&hl=blockscript' target='_blank'>this thread</a> to be rather misinformed about scripts.
Just read a little further and watch him say how leap/bite scripts or whatever makes you an instant killing machine...
<span style='color:blue'>EDIT:</span>
<b><span style='color:red'>You should take note, that the person I was talking about was using an exploit triggered by a script to leap without using energy.</span></b>
<!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Sometimes I wonder why I don't post quite as much as I used to. Then I see threads like this. Lets conduct an experiment...
Premise - If you don't like this cvar, can you play on a server with it set to 0 ?
<!--QuoteBegin-Scylla+Sep 13 2004, 11:20 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Scylla @ Sep 13 2004, 11:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> [ ... ] It’s frustrating for newbie’s getting raped by bunny hopping skulks or get insta-killed with a pistol scripts. [ ... ] <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Could I please have that script? I was under the assumption that the pistol rof was capped in 2.0. Stupid me <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Haha. I dont even use fastswitch. I'm so used to selecting a weapon then pressing fire to choose it, if i turn on fast switch, I die because I xeno early thinking I'm just selecting it <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Seriously, you don't need scripts to own. watch for me on Servers as 'Vek'. I don't do too badly at all. People still accuse of haxing but they'll do that if you do anything kewl, even if its a lucky 1 in a million.
Seriously, though, is there a link to see exactly what commands will trigger the block scripts? I'm thinking about adding some stuff to my Mouse's fifth button (currently bound to taunt + spray).
<!--QuoteBegin-gopher+Sep 13 2004, 03:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (gopher @ Sep 13 2004, 03:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Scylla+Sep 13 2004, 11:20 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Scylla @ Sep 13 2004, 11:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> [ ... ] It’s frustrating for newbie’s getting raped by bunny hopping skulks or get insta-killed with a pistol scripts. [ ... ] <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Could I please have that script? I was under the assumption that the pistol rof was capped in 2.0. Stupid me <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Gopher … would you do me a favour and … read my post again and don’t just quote a little small part of it, that maybe a technical wrong example for the current version but don’t nullify my conclusion.
obuhNot Quite Smart at NSJoin Date: 2003-03-31Member: 15072Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-obuh+Sep 13 2004, 02:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (obuh @ Sep 13 2004, 02:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well voogru has made the matter quite of a personal war against the evil scripts. And he has shown in <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=74571&hl=blockscript' target='_blank'>this thread</a> to be rather misinformed about scripts.
Just read a little further and watch him say how leap/bite scripts or whatever makes you an instant killing machine...
<span style='color:blue'>EDIT:</span>
<b><span style='color:red'>You should take note, that the person I was talking about was using an exploit triggered by a script to leap without using energy.</span></b> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well I'm sorry then. I still think the best way to go would be to remove the possibilty to exploit it, instead of removing the scripts altogether.
/:
PS: Why the hate? I don't want the anti-scripters to die...
<!--QuoteBegin-obuh+Sep 13 2004, 02:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (obuh @ Sep 13 2004, 02:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Well voogru has made the matter quite of a personal war against the evil scripts. And he has shown in <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=74571&hl=blockscript' target='_blank'>this thread</a> to be rather misinformed about scripts.
Just read a little further and watch him say how leap/bite scripts or whatever makes you an instant killing machine...
<span style='color:blue'>EDIT:</span>
<b><span style='color:red'>You should take note, that the person I was talking about was using an exploit triggered by a script to leap without using energy.</span></b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Treat the problem, not symptom. saying that you need blockscripts to stop no-adren-leap scritps is a band-aid solution.
<!--QuoteBegin-skifly+Sep 6 2004, 09:06 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (skifly @ Sep 6 2004, 09:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> alias w1 "slot2;bind alt w2" alias w2 "slot1; bind alt w1" bind alt w1
That used to let me put main gun and pistol onto the same button. Whoever was in charge of this blockscripts crap decided that that was too much of an advantage. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> i see we have another newbie scripter blaming his lack of scripting skills on the "blockscripts crap". <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-RiotingNerd+Sep 17 2004, 08:05 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RiotingNerd @ Sep 17 2004, 08:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-obuh+Sep 13 2004, 02:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (obuh @ Sep 13 2004, 02:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Well voogru has made the matter quite of a personal war against the evil scripts. And he has shown in <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=74571&hl=blockscript' target='_blank'>this thread</a> to be rather misinformed about scripts.
Just read a little further and watch him say how leap/bite scripts or whatever makes you an instant killing machine...
<span style='color:blue'>EDIT:</span>
<b><span style='color:red'>You should take note, that the person I was talking about was using an exploit triggered by a script to leap without using energy.</span></b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Treat the problem, not symptom. saying that you need blockscripts to stop no-adren-leap scritps is a band-aid solution. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Really, this seems like the worst solution to the problem.
Besides I won't believe such a script until I see one. I've heard rumors and stuff of no adren blink or leap scripts but every one I've tried hasn't worked. I'm pretty sure they are all just rumors.
BTW, Voogru are you sure the Skulk didn't just have adrenaline in Combat? I know that with adrenaline I can leap all over the place as skulk... so much that people say that I have a fly mode hack or something.... just fyi... leaping and knowing how to use air control can let you fly like a lerk <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
All I'm saying is, don't immediately call something a cheat when you don't understand it.
<!--QuoteBegin-Nadagast+Sep 18 2004, 05:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nadagast @ Sep 18 2004, 05:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-RiotingNerd+Sep 17 2004, 08:05 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RiotingNerd @ Sep 17 2004, 08:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-obuh+Sep 13 2004, 02:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (obuh @ Sep 13 2004, 02:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Well voogru has made the matter quite of a personal war against the evil scripts. And he has shown in <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=74571&hl=blockscript' target='_blank'>this thread</a> to be rather misinformed about scripts.
Just read a little further and watch him say how leap/bite scripts or whatever makes you an instant killing machine...
<span style='color:blue'>EDIT:</span>
<b><span style='color:red'>You should take note, that the person I was talking about was using an exploit triggered by a script to leap without using energy.</span></b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Treat the problem, not symptom. saying that you need blockscripts to stop no-adren-leap scritps is a band-aid solution. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Really, this seems like the worst solution to the problem.
Besides I won't believe such a script until I see one. I've heard rumors and stuff of no adren blink or leap scripts but every one I've tried hasn't worked. I'm pretty sure they are all just rumors.
BTW, Voogru are you sure the Skulk didn't just have adrenaline in Combat? I know that with adrenaline I can leap all over the place as skulk... so much that people say that I have a fly mode hack or something.... just fyi... leaping and knowing how to use air control can let you fly like a lerk <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
All I'm saying is, don't immediately call something a cheat when you don't understand it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes Voogru you are wrong. It is possible in Co to do such things easily. Anyone who basis their "suspensions on co" is lost.
Comments
Go ahead, segregate them...no problem really is there, it keeps both parties happy.
Because so many people whined when they found out blockscripts would block +commands on mousewheel, that that feature was removed. So now you're complaining about that?
which brings us to where we are now. it seems clear that theres no simple silution to this. of course we could allways just seperate the two types, with scipters here and non scripters there... but I believe that such a division would weaken and possible tear the community apart in time. so there must be a better silution
so lets now try to think why people like to script
1- it enables them to use advantages to enhance there gaming skill
2- it can make the game a little more action pack and fun when its brought up to the higher level
3- lets face it, some scripts can really help you kick butt agaisnt people that don't know/want to know how they work
and now lets look why some poeple don't script
1- they feel its "cheap" or not meant to be done
2- they can pull their wiehgt in game just fine without them
3 and of course there are those who just hate scripts cuz there not smart enough to figure out how out how to use them, so they just become bitter and angry
so how to we fix this? well we can make everyone brought onto equal ground by adding more build in stuff to the game , like perhaps leap/bites and blink/swipes that way everyone would have access to them and it'd take care of the moron whiners and level the playing field a bit, then of course we could just get rid of all scripts all together and force everyone to play the game without them and I'm not saying if thats what should be done or not I'm just saying it would make everyone play on the same level
and thus... in conclusion, we see that scripting or the lack there of is a very complex and deep thing... and quite frankly I'm not exactly sure what should be done about it.
If you really hate scripts that must, use them. "If you ca't beat 'em, join 'em" It couldn't possibly be easier to script, and the folks at #nsguides and #nslearn would probably be happy to help. It's so easy to learn how to script. If you really hate it that much try it out yourself. Once you get past the holier than thou attitude you come to realize it's not that bad.
So my suggestion to all non-scripters is, try out scripting, and tell us your thoughts. And I'm serious, don't rant about it and pretend you tried it, actually try it out.
If you really hate scripts that must, use them. "If you ca't beat 'em, join 'em" It couldn't possibly be easier to script, and the folks at #nsguides and #nslearn would probably be happy to help. It's so easy to learn how to script. If you really hate it that much try it out yourself. Once you get past the holier than thou attitude you come to realize it's not that bad.
So my suggestion to all non-scripters is, try out scripting, and tell us your thoughts. And I'm serious, don't rant about it and pretend you tried it, actually try it out. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you basicly devoted that topic to say that if a person wants to start playing NS, he must at first get himself a good computer to have good fps. And beside that your saying they should learn how to make/use scripts so they can be as good as the another guy.
Uhm.. i sure hope you aint serious about that.
Natural-Selection is hard for newbie’s because of the strategy part and different alien life forms. It’s frustrating for newbie’s getting raped by bunny hopping skulks or get insta-killed with a pistol scripts.
If the community wants bunny hopping or blink/slash I'm fine with it but make it as default usable for all. Or remove it completely.
For all players out want to keep their “secret lore” to have an advantage over the average gamer I suggest to play a little AG-HL as newbie.
In my opinion blockscripts is totally unneeded and the devs would of been far better off putting effort into actually fixing the bugs that some <b>abusive</b> scripts could exploit rather than just removing them all together. And whetever you like it or not the community has been further divided, as if the whole pubber and clanner thing wasn't enough.
The only problem I can see is that with blockscripts on, the lack of 3jump is gonna hurt skulk bunnyhopping, which imo IS a bad thing. Bhopping is a very important part of a hard skulk game.
Blockscripts is getting rid of stuff like leap/bite and blink/swipe. There are people here suggesting that this seems to be a bad thing?! As simply as I can put it: Instead of switching to blink, pressing attack, switching to swipe, pressing attack we have press one button. Hmm. Just me or?
The rest of this bollocks about switching weapons and stuff, jesus christ COME ON. Get aquainted with buttons 1,2,3,4 and lastinv and their friend hud_fastswitch 1. You just don't need anything else fgs.
Anything blocked by blockscripts other than 3 jump is either malicious or plain trivial. Stop whining please.
Concentrate on the huge divide between marine/alien play instead or perhaps the dying clan scene due to ns' downhill.
Exactly the point. Scripting makes it less work, i.e. easier. So some people prefer to play with scripts off.
And btw using hud_fastswitch 1 is far superior to lastinv imo, as you can switch between 3 attacks. e.g. as a Fade you can blink, swipe, blink, then metabolise whilst blinking away, switch back to blink then swipe and then metabolise inmid air again... with lastinv you wouldnt be able to switch between those 3 attacks as easily.
The only scripts that i really didnt approve of were pistol and special scripts, its a shame putting mp_blockscripts 0 means that special scripts are enabled, it kind of forces people to use blockscripts 1. Special scripts making bhopping extremely easy, and allow for controlled pistol scripts, if you didnt know. If anything needs to be changed, mp_blockscripts 0 needs to block special imo. You still need skill to bunnyhop with 3 jump or mwheel, whereas youd have to be braindead not to be able to bhop with special script.
Btw do you really think the devs wanted to block weapon switching scripts? No, they wanted to block the more abusive scripts e.g. pistol. Anyone who implies that the purpose of blockscripts was to block weaponswitches or ammo call binds or whatever is a) actually stupid or b) is just angry that blockscripts disables their 3jump or leapbite scripts.
Just block _special with blockscripts and all will be fine, the svar would then be truely optional, down to personal preference. Personally i know that i wont be playing any clan matches with blockscripts on 0.
Honestly I wish Flayra would just implement 3jump into normal jump and disable the rest of the fast-action scripts so we don't have to listen to the stupid complaints about them anymore.
(supposedly slot1 and the like are also clientside now though)
For example, this will work on a mp_bs 1 server :
<!--c1--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->//spam request orders
bind mouse1 "kill"<!--c2--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
Exactly the point. Scripting makes it less work, i.e. easier. So some people prefer to play with scripts off.
And btw using hud_fastswitch 1 is far superior to lastinv imo, as you can switch between 3 attacks. e.g. as a Fade you can blink, swipe, blink, then metabolise whilst blinking away, switch back to blink then swipe and then metabolise inmid air again... with lastinv you wouldnt be able to switch between those 3 attacks as easily.
The only scripts that i really didnt approve of were pistol and special scripts, its a shame putting mp_blockscripts 0 means that special scripts are enabled, it kind of forces people to use blockscripts 1. Special scripts making bhopping extremely easy, and allow for controlled pistol scripts, if you didnt know. If anything needs to be changed, mp_blockscripts 0 needs to block special imo. You still need skill to bunnyhop with 3 jump or mwheel, whereas youd have to be braindead not to be able to bhop with special script.
Btw do you really think the devs wanted to block weapon switching scripts? No, they wanted to block the more abusive scripts e.g. pistol. Anyone who implies that the purpose of blockscripts was to block weaponswitches or ammo call binds or whatever is a) actually stupid or b) is just angry that blockscripts disables their 3jump or leapbite scripts.
Just block _special with blockscripts and all will be fine, the svar would then be truely optional, down to personal preference. Personally i know that i wont be playing any clan matches with blockscripts on 0. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Leapbite scripts suck. As do blinkswipe scripts. The best fades in the world do not use these scripts. No one should use them, they limit your game. Banning them therefore is irrelevent.
bind attack "mouse 1"
bind movement "arrow keys"
bind weapon swich numbers "numpad 1, 2, 3, and 4"
hud_fastswich 1
as skulk, press numpad 3 with 2nd hive or next ability 1, leap and quickly press numpad 1, when in close enough range of target, (Marine) proceed to click your mouse for a sucessful hit <span style='font-size:7pt;line-height:100%'><span style='font-family:Courier'>sucessful hit may not always happen if the marine is not a total idiot</span></span>
this document is also avalable for those with WSAD for movement keys, but at the price of $5CAD.
1- it enables them to use advantages to enhance their gaming skill
2- it can make the game a little more action pack and fun when its brought up to the higher level
3- lets face it, some scripts can really help you kick butt agaisnt people that don't know/want to know how they work
and now lets look why some people don't script
1- they feel its "cheap" or not meant to be done
2- they can pull their wiehgt in game just fine without them
3 and of course there are those who just hate scripts cuz there not smart enough to figure out how out how to use them, so they just become bitter and angry
so how to we fix this? well we can make everyone brought onto equal ground by adding more build in stuff to the game , like perhaps leap/bites and blink/swipes that way everyone would have access to them and it'd take care of the moron whiners and level the playing field a bit, then of course we could just get rid of all scripts all together and force everyone to play the game without them and I'm not saying if thats what should be done or not I'm just saying it would make everyone play on the same level
and thus... in conclusion, we see that scripting or the lack there of is a very complex and deep thing... and quite frankly I'm not exactly sure what should be done about it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
So true. One of the biggest false statements of the anti-scripters group is that legit use of the software is "bad" and "cheap" when in reality it requires skill to code and execute properly. If you don't believe me then I can reprogram a whichbot for you and let you see how stupid the thing is when it doesn't use the scripts properly. Bunny hopping into a corner because you can't climb up the wall is so stupid looking it's funny. Blink-slashing still takes a clever ammount of skill to use properly. I mean if you can't blink well then who care if you have a really good script. You'll just suck that much more. lol
In all seriousness though, I personally don't have as much need to use the scripts because of my unusual key configuration, but it's not fair to other who don't have a customized mouse like me so they have to raise up their lack of the best hardware with some intelligent use of software. There are instances where going over to press the slot1 key after holding down on blink is bad because I use my right hand to mouselook and left hand to handle the arrow keys to contol my movement. If I had a third hand then I wouldn't need a script like that. But you see I don't. I mean, what if a handicapped person was trying to play NS? Your telling me he can't script because he has only one hand?! That's not fair at all. (I know someone like this so back off flamers)
Conclusion:
<span style='color:yellow'><b>"Every man or woman needs to have what ever setup necessary that fits them to have fun and function to the best of their ability"</b></span>
-- x7
I prefer not to debate. I don't understand why this is a discussion. (not why we are different, why we can't ignore our differences) If you don't like someone because they do/don't script... ok. That's okay that you feel that way. Say it to yourself: it's ok that I feel hate for this person.
What you <span style='color:red'>don't</span> do is <span style='color:red'>force</span> others to follow your way. If someone wants to play with a fov of 160, fine. If someone can't type out a message to call for backup in under a second, fine. Do what ever you need to do to function to your best, but god damnit do not force others to follow you. That's acting exactly like a Nha Si' Marat. Voogru you mean well by trying to have a level/equal playing field, but you are being willfully ignorant of your desire to exert your methods on others. It should also be mentioned that is there is a blockade, there is a way though it. A blockade is a difficult to construct, maintain, and causes more resentment. The best thing to do is to alway eliminate the problem at the cause rather and at the effect. A simple way to do this is to make commands that do the useful things that a script does, thus eliminating imbalance (as you see it) at the cause. Pistol scripts? A solution is to make an aiming rectile that has varible accuracy depending on movement, much like the ones in Ghost Recon. This eliminates the functionality of the pistols script because one's aiming get's really bad the split second after you fire.
One last example of something NS has done correctly to quell imbalances:
motion tracking & SoF - eliminates desire or a wallhack or ESP
And it's not forcing anyone...most servers, I imagine, will still allow scripts perfectly fine...let the elitist servers that have this idiotic notion that scripts are tantamount to hax0ring keep their no script servers, it keeps their whining off of the script allowed servers I play on.
Just read a little further and watch him say how leap/bite scripts or whatever makes you an instant killing machine...
<span style='color:blue'>EDIT:</span>
<b><span style='color:red'>You should take note, that the person I was talking about was using an exploit triggered by a script to leap without using energy.</span></b>
Premise - If you don't like this cvar, can you play on a server with it set to 0 ?
Result - OMG, yes you can.
Conclusion - Quit whinging.
/me bangs head against wall
Could I please have that script? I was under the assumption that the pistol rof was capped in 2.0. Stupid me <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Seriously, you don't need scripts to own. watch for me on Servers as 'Vek'. I don't do too badly at all. People still accuse of haxing but they'll do that if you do anything kewl, even if its a lucky 1 in a million.
Seriously, though, is there a link to see exactly what commands will trigger the block scripts? I'm thinking about adding some stuff to my Mouse's fifth button (currently bound to taunt + spray).
Could I please have that script? I was under the assumption that the pistol rof was capped in 2.0. Stupid me <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Gopher … would you do me a favour and … read my post again and don’t just quote a little small part of it, that maybe a technical wrong example for the current version but don’t nullify my conclusion.
thanks <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Just read a little further and watch him say how leap/bite scripts or whatever makes you an instant killing machine...
<span style='color:blue'>EDIT:</span>
<b><span style='color:red'>You should take note, that the person I was talking about was using an exploit triggered by a script to leap without using energy.</span></b> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well I'm sorry then. I still think the best way to go would be to remove the possibilty to exploit it, instead of removing the scripts altogether.
/:
PS: Why the hate? I don't want the anti-scripters to die...
Just read a little further and watch him say how leap/bite scripts or whatever makes you an instant killing machine...
<span style='color:blue'>EDIT:</span>
<b><span style='color:red'>You should take note, that the person I was talking about was using an exploit triggered by a script to leap without using energy.</span></b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Treat the problem, not symptom. saying that you need blockscripts to stop no-adren-leap scritps is a band-aid solution.
alias w2 "slot1; bind alt w1"
bind alt w1
That used to let me put main gun and pistol onto the same button. Whoever was in charge of this blockscripts crap decided that that was too much of an advantage. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
i see we have another newbie scripter blaming his lack of scripting skills on the "blockscripts crap". <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Just read a little further and watch him say how leap/bite scripts or whatever makes you an instant killing machine...
<span style='color:blue'>EDIT:</span>
<b><span style='color:red'>You should take note, that the person I was talking about was using an exploit triggered by a script to leap without using energy.</span></b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Treat the problem, not symptom. saying that you need blockscripts to stop no-adren-leap scritps is a band-aid solution. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Really, this seems like the worst solution to the problem.
Besides I won't believe such a script until I see one. I've heard rumors and stuff of no adren blink or leap scripts but every one I've tried hasn't worked. I'm pretty sure they are all just rumors.
BTW, Voogru are you sure the Skulk didn't just have adrenaline in Combat? I know that with adrenaline I can leap all over the place as skulk... so much that people say that I have a fly mode hack or something.... just fyi... leaping and knowing how to use air control can let you fly like a lerk <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
All I'm saying is, don't immediately call something a cheat when you don't understand it.
Just read a little further and watch him say how leap/bite scripts or whatever makes you an instant killing machine...
<span style='color:blue'>EDIT:</span>
<b><span style='color:red'>You should take note, that the person I was talking about was using an exploit triggered by a script to leap without using energy.</span></b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Treat the problem, not symptom. saying that you need blockscripts to stop no-adren-leap scritps is a band-aid solution. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Really, this seems like the worst solution to the problem.
Besides I won't believe such a script until I see one. I've heard rumors and stuff of no adren blink or leap scripts but every one I've tried hasn't worked. I'm pretty sure they are all just rumors.
BTW, Voogru are you sure the Skulk didn't just have adrenaline in Combat? I know that with adrenaline I can leap all over the place as skulk... so much that people say that I have a fly mode hack or something.... just fyi... leaping and knowing how to use air control can let you fly like a lerk <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
All I'm saying is, don't immediately call something a cheat when you don't understand it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes Voogru you are wrong. It is possible in Co to do such things easily. Anyone who basis their "suspensions on co" is lost.