ssjyodaJoin Date: 2002-03-05Member: 274Members, Squad Five Blue
edited September 2004
he's only 14, what do u expect....
another scripting thread every few days it seems.
the way i look at it, is its like tuning your car. If you know more about cars, you are gonna tune it to make it run better instead of just buying it and using the parts it came with. People are tuning their configuration cause they have spent time to learn how. Its a combination of skill and knowledge. the result is a different keyboard, mouse, monitor, computer, or a script. you are given the game, such as you are given a task such as a race, its up to you to find a way to squeeze every last bit out that you can. there is no way to absolutly lvl the playing field cause everyone has a different pc, different internet connection, so y not a different config.
<!--QuoteBegin-JacKnife+Sep 18 2004, 07:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JacKnife @ Sep 18 2004, 07:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> good analogy and they command should be more like mp_letstrytostopthepeoplebetterthanvoogru <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> DOn't cry because he's taking your crutch away and breaking it in half, burning it, then relieving himself on it.
Sarisel.::' ( O ) ';:-. .-.:;' ( O ) '::.Join Date: 2003-07-30Member: 18557Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-Sizer+Sep 18 2004, 07:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sizer @ Sep 18 2004, 07:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-JacKnife+Sep 18 2004, 07:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JacKnife @ Sep 18 2004, 07:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> good analogy and they command should be more like mp_letstrytostopthepeoplebetterthanvoogru <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> DOn't cry because he's taking your crutch away and breaking it in half, burning it, then relieving himself on it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It's ok. Go ahead.
Block all the scripts and make it so everybody has to use the exact same controls to play the game.
Then, when the same type of players (like the skulk that 'scripted' voogru on his own server) still pull off the same jobs on you as they do with scripts, you will return to the usual excuses of 'hacker' and 'cheater'.
Most likely, even if everybody in a server had to play at a LAN center, people would start coming up with accusations of illegal drug use to increase reaction times or what have you not.
It really isn't worth the arguments anymore. The devs are obviously not going to take a firm stance on this, or else there would be no mp_blockscript variable. It has been with us since beta 2.0. It isn't going away.
It's been in since 2.0, voogru fixed it, you're just jumping the gun on the man that fixed it. Shape the hell up. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No see you misunderstand. We do not like Voogru because of what he said not because of what he did. Now if you don't know what he typed in his opening and later posts about scripting then don't insult us here. Because to be honest your defending an ignorant man. He may have fixed what Flayra asked him to fix, but what he said about who and why is a whole different thing. Real developers don't insult their player base. understand yet? No then your no better then him. The mp_blockscript affects me in no way for i have stopped pub play almost completely because of it, but what he said then still annoys me why someone like him is leading this game.
Read that thread again. voogru apoligized, he might be biased but who isn't? Now what do his personal opinions have to do with fixing a broken variable? Because this thread is not about his opinion, it's about blockscripts.
Scripts. Well, the first thing that needed to be said at the discussion was this:
<b>Attention Forum Monkeys. Please leave your pride and your ego at the door.</b>
Okay? What that does is it enables you to actually listen to the other person's argument. This is a simple, fundamental problem with the human race. We're too prideful to change our stance. As the Greek playwright Sophocles said through his masterpiece <i>Antigone</i>, the only crime is pride. Good men repent when they see that they are wrong.
I used to be a vehement anti-scripter. I hated the little things like roaches. But, after a breif discussion with Forlorn in one of these topics buried deep in the archives of these forums, I've found my own answer to the problem.
See those scripts? Unless there is something truly evil hidden in marine.cfg or alien.cfg, then this script is only helpful and completely harmless. That's something I can understand. If you prefer to use Q to flap as a lerk and Q as lastinv for marines, or maybe you have your alien impulses and marine impulses both competing for room on the numpad, having two CFGs is really helpful. It's just as natural as customizing your config.cfg file.
<!--c1--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->alias +pistol "+attack; -attack" alias -pistol "+attack; -attack" bind mouse2 "+pistol"<!--c2--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--ec2--> Disclaimer: forgive me if this is a hideously malformed pistol script. My only scripting experience is some buy scripts in Counter-Strike.
Anyway, this script falls into the gray zone of OK vs. Not OK. My opinion? It's lame: this allows you to do stuff that normal humans would not be able to do. It's not an intended part of the game to be able to discharge 10 bullets in under one and a half seconds, enough to insta-gib skulks that aren't extremely quick on the draw.
The solution? Well, cap the pistol rate of fire. After all, you can do the same thing with a mousewheel, which by the way, is equally as lame in my opinion.
<!--c1--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->alias 3jumps "+jump; -jump; +jump; -jump; +jump; -jump"<!--c2--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--ec2--> Disclaimer #2: I might have this one right. Don't hurt me.
This script is another one that depends on other factors. What you think of this script is the same as what you think of bunnyhopping. Since it's officially sanctioned by the devs, it's in. My opinion falls similar to the pistol script: bunnyhopping is something extremely difficult to do as a human being, and also screws up the atmosphere. However, certian aspects of the game balance depend on bunnyhopping (even though, I feel that alien dependance on bunnyhopping and players deciding to not ambush is actually giving the marines an upper hand), so it was kept in. That's their position, and I'll let them make it and implement it.
<!--c1--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->alias +qleap "slot3; mw; +attack" alias -qleap "-attack; slot1" bind "b" "+qleap<!--c2--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--ec2--> Disclaimer #3: I stole this one from <a href='http://paperlined.org/games/pc/natural_selection/2.01/scripts/3jump.html' target='_blank'>here</a>.
Eww, what a lame script. While it is only mildly abusive if at all, the entire idea of performing combat operations through lines of code kind of bugs me. It only takes another command or two and you can automatically bite and then switch back to leap with one button. It's nearly the same concept, just not to the same magnitude, of aimbots. "I can aim anyway, so I'm just going to make it more convenient." Disclaimer #4: Yes, I am comparing people who use that script to aimbotters. Just take note, I'm not calling them hackers nor am I calling them aimbotters. I'm simply pointing out a similarity. It also was not meant as a flame in any way.
Is there a way to fix annoying scripts like these? Well, I heard through word-of-mouth that Voogru was experimenting with a plugin on his server that prevented extreme weapons switching like the type that the above script used. However, I also heard that you couldn't switch for something like 5 seconds. I don't believe that it was actually 5 seconds, but it may have been too long for human reflexes. The problem with that solution is that a human being able to switch that fast (while impossible) is fine by me. It's the script alone being used that gets on my nerves, unlike the pistol scripts and bunnyhopping scripts.
So, that's where blockscripts comes in. However, blockscripts also gets rid of the harmless scripts like the exec scripts I posted above, because exec'ing CFGs can be the same as writing a script without the semicolons.
I am an advocate of the doctrine that I would first let criminals go than to imprison one innocent person. If I was a server op, mp_blockscripts would be off on my server. The annoying/malactious scripts (I'm not sure if there are any truly malacious scripts) would have to slide until somebody comes up with a clever way to spare the innocent and penalize the guilty. More power to ya, Voogru!
<!--QuoteBegin-RabidWeasel+Sep 18 2004, 07:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RabidWeasel @ Sep 18 2004, 07:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The almighty crutch of using space instead of the mousewheel to bunnyhop :O<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That and the crap that no one can pull off with lastinv. Who the hell are you people trying to kid? Are you going to whine for the return of railgun pistols next?
<!--QuoteBegin-"different person (this quoting system sucks"+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ("different person (this quoting system sucks")</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Then, when the same type of players (like the skulk that 'scripted' voogru on his own server) still pull off the same jobs on you as they do with scripts, you will return to the usual excuses of 'hacker' and 'cheater'.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Me? No. Only for the botting newbs who snap to targets and get 100% accuracy in 90-100 choke environments <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Most likely, even if everybody in a server had to play at a LAN center, people would start coming up with accusations of illegal drug use to increase reaction times or what have you not. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Disclaimer #2: I might have this one right. Don't hurt me.
This script is another one that depends on other factors. What you think of this script is the same as what you think of bunnyhopping. Since it's officially sanctioned by the devs, it's in. My opinion falls similar to the pistol script: bunnyhopping is something extremely difficult to do as a human being, and also screws up the atmosphere. However, certian aspects of the game balance depend on bunnyhopping (even though, I feel that alien dependance on bunnyhopping and players deciding to not ambush is actually giving the marines an upper hand), so it was kept in. That's their position, and I'll let them make it and implement it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
since marine are humans beings and are not allowed to bhop and aliens are not HUMAN BEINGS..... dont whine about the 3jump script for ALIENS!!!!
besides... how many people that CAN bhop complain about people using the bhop script? very few i bet. i am certain that people for the 3jump script can bhop, and people who cant bhop are against it.
a_civilianLikes seeing numbersJoin Date: 2003-01-08Member: 12041Members, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead
<!--QuoteBegin-Sizer+Sep 18 2004, 11:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sizer @ Sep 18 2004, 11:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> That and the crap that no one can pull off with lastinv. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Don't assume that because something seems impossible to you, it is impossible. It is quite possible to master weapon switching without any scripts whatsoever.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Well this is exactly what the "vets" are doing right now.
Their "whining" is actually a valid complint about how servers force them to play a certain way (+jump bound to mwheel, etc. etc. to get around lack of scripts).
Whining only happens when you complain about something you can fix. It becomes an offical complaint when you can't fix it but someone can (dev).
BizZy_9mm_MessiahOld School MemberJoin Date: 2003-07-25Member: 18411Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-Sizer+Sep 18 2004, 10:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sizer @ Sep 18 2004, 10:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-RabidWeasel+Sep 18 2004, 07:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RabidWeasel @ Sep 18 2004, 07:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The almighty crutch of using space instead of the mousewheel to bunnyhop :O<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That and the crap that no one can pull off with lastinv. Who the hell are you people trying to kid? Are you going to whine for the return of railgun pistols next?
<!--QuoteBegin-"different person (this quoting system sucks"+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ("different person (this quoting system sucks")</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Then, when the same type of players (like the skulk that 'scripted' voogru on his own server) still pull off the same jobs on you as they do with scripts, you will return to the usual excuses of 'hacker' and 'cheater'.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Me? No. Only for the botting newbs who snap to targets and get 100% accuracy in 90-100 choke environments <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Most likely, even if everybody in a server had to play at a LAN center, people would start coming up with accusations of illegal drug use to increase reaction times or what have you not. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well this is exactly what the "vets" are doing right now. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> *Sniff* *Sniff* What's that I smell?
That and the crap that no one can pull off with lastinv. Who the hell are you people trying to kid? Are you going to whine for the return of railgun pistols next?
<!--QuoteBegin-"different person (this quoting system sucks"+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ("different person (this quoting system sucks")</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Then, when the same type of players (like the skulk that 'scripted' voogru on his own server) still pull off the same jobs on you as they do with scripts, you will return to the usual excuses of 'hacker' and 'cheater'.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Me? No. Only for the botting newbs who snap to targets and get 100% accuracy in 90-100 choke environments <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Most likely, even if everybody in a server had to play at a LAN center, people would start coming up with accusations of illegal drug use to increase reaction times or what have you not. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well this is exactly what the "vets" are doing right now. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> *Sniff* *Sniff* What's that I smell?
<b><i><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:red'>My own bull****</span></span></i></b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Fixed it for you.
That and the crap that no one can pull off with lastinv. Who the hell are you people trying to kid? Are you going to whine for the return of railgun pistols next?
<!--QuoteBegin-"different person (this quoting system sucks"+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ("different person (this quoting system sucks")</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Then, when the same type of players (like the skulk that 'scripted' voogru on his own server) still pull off the same jobs on you as they do with scripts, you will return to the usual excuses of 'hacker' and 'cheater'.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Me? No. Only for the botting newbs who snap to targets and get 100% accuracy in 90-100 choke environments <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Most likely, even if everybody in a server had to play at a LAN center, people would start coming up with accusations of illegal drug use to increase reaction times or what have you not. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well this is exactly what the "vets" are doing right now. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> *Sniff* *Sniff* What's that I smell?
<b><i><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:red'>My own bull****</span></span></i></b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Fixed it for you. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Your such a pretty little girl when you're angry.
<!--QuoteBegin-Wither+Sep 18 2004, 08:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Wither @ Sep 18 2004, 08:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Note how voogru doesn't lead NS. Flayra does.
Read that thread again. voogru apoligized, he might be biased but who isn't? Now what do his personal opinions have to do with fixing a broken variable? Because this thread is not about his opinion, it's about blockscripts. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Can you be any more ignorant? Leading means a leader. By being a developer he is a leader of this community. His apology means nothing, someone who is a developer should have enough smarts not to say what he did in the beginning. And what he stated in the beginning he changed after. More importantly i am not bias. I was a leader of a private community for a time and i know what is required and how one must approach situations.
About your question. His opinion has everything to do with the broken variable. And you still don't know why? Because he made his opinion public fueling these newbies. "Time for Scripters to Die!!!" ? Do you not remember that subtitle of his topic? He changed it later but did his opinion on the subject of scripts change? No in reality he only changed his subtitle because it was to offensive.
You see if he kept his mouth closed this would of been seen as a dev fixing a variable. But he decided that this was something he wanted to get personal about and this is the result. Now i ask you what is wrong with this community? Why do the competitive community/pub community have to be so separated. If you have a clue you know cal will not remove scripts. So tell me how making half the servers in the pub scene with the blockscript enabled going to help fix the issues between new and old players. Please do not tell me the blockscript was introduced to remove abusive scripts because i will now again remind you that i ran a community with a fellow mate and support of a team and in all that time the most abusive scripts were 1 word commands which for your information this fellow of mine was the first to email the fix to this community.
Now play tester, tell me why are you defending this Voogru so much. Do you use scripts? Have you ever tried? Have you played both with scripts and without them? Have you attempted to find abusive scripts?
Now for my closing little message for you. This variable is all thats doing is separating this community. New and old Admins are being scared to using it, afraid of some exploitive scripts which will crash their servers while in reality its their amx plugins, yet i know there is nothing to be worried about. Nothing a good admin can not deal with and find and discover how to overcome. Blockscripts do not block players from scripting, they block players from learning.
Scripts ARE needed. At least they were to me. I used a 3jump script. helped me to bh. i couldnt do it without it, no skill YET. After a week or 2 of bh with scripts i tried to make unscripted bhs. It WAS difficult but it WASNT as difficult as it was before (impossible tbh for me). just my 2c.
(i can bh without scripts now... you love me mommy? )
Sizer and Bizzy are the proud first recepients of my 'Don't screw up in scripting debates' award.
A word regarding voogru-bashing. I have enforcede a rule prohibiting <i>any</i> form of personal harassment since I was made a mod around here. I won't stop it now. If you want to criticise his actions, that's your right. If you want to slander him, you'll be edited, warned, suspended, or banned.
By the way, speaking not as admin or producer, but as Florian 'Nemesis Zero' Schwarzer: I don't usually take lockposts as places to make comments on the topic, but in this special case, I can't help but marvel at the people who lament the divides in this community, and then declare the mistake of a fellow human being, which was later admitted, inexcusable. To err is human. It'd be nice to be able to say that to forgive is, too.
Comments
another scripting thread every few days it seems.
the way i look at it, is its like tuning your car. If you know more about cars, you are gonna tune it to make it run better instead of just buying it and using the parts it came with. People are tuning their configuration cause they have spent time to learn how. Its a combination of skill and knowledge. the result is a different keyboard, mouse, monitor, computer, or a script. you are given the game, such as you are given a task such as a race, its up to you to find a way to squeeze every last bit out that you can. there is no way to absolutly lvl the playing field cause everyone has a different pc, different internet connection, so y not a different config.
It's been in since 2.0, voogru fixed it, you're just jumping the gun on the man that fixed it. Shape the hell up.
DOn't cry because he's taking your crutch away and breaking it in half, burning it, then relieving himself on it.
Then all the other non-combat scripts would work ok, whilst the exploitative ones would not.
DOn't cry because he's taking your crutch away and breaking it in half, burning it, then relieving himself on it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's ok. Go ahead.
Block all the scripts and make it so everybody has to use the exact same controls to play the game.
Then, when the same type of players (like the skulk that 'scripted' voogru on his own server) still pull off the same jobs on you as they do with scripts, you will return to the usual excuses of 'hacker' and 'cheater'.
Most likely, even if everybody in a server had to play at a LAN center, people would start coming up with accusations of illegal drug use to increase reaction times or what have you not.
It really isn't worth the arguments anymore. The devs are obviously not going to take a firm stance on this, or else there would be no mp_blockscript variable. It has been with us since beta 2.0. It isn't going away.
Newbies whine, veterans adapt.
It's been in since 2.0, voogru fixed it, you're just jumping the gun on the man that fixed it. Shape the hell up. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No see you misunderstand. We do not like Voogru because of what he said not because of what he did. Now if you don't know what he typed in his opening and later posts about scripting then don't insult us here. Because to be honest your defending an ignorant man. He may have fixed what Flayra asked him to fix, but what he said about who and why is a whole different thing. Real developers don't insult their player base. understand yet? No then your no better then him. The mp_blockscript affects me in no way for i have stopped pub play almost completely because of it, but what he said then still annoys me why someone like him is leading this game.
Read that thread again. voogru apoligized, he might be biased but who isn't? Now what do his personal opinions have to do with fixing a broken variable? Because this thread is not about his opinion, it's about blockscripts.
<b>Attention Forum Monkeys. Please leave your pride and your ego at the door.</b>
Okay? What that does is it enables you to actually listen to the other person's argument. This is a simple, fundamental problem with the human race. We're too prideful to change our stance. As the Greek playwright Sophocles said through his masterpiece <i>Antigone</i>, the only crime is pride. Good men repent when they see that they are wrong.
I used to be a vehement anti-scripter. I hated the little things like roaches. But, after a breif discussion with Forlorn in one of these topics buried deep in the archives of these forums, I've found my own answer to the problem.
<!--c1--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->bind f1 "exec marine.cfg; jointeamone"
bind f2 "exec alien.cfg; jointeamtwo"<!--c2--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
See those scripts? Unless there is something truly evil hidden in marine.cfg or alien.cfg, then this script is only helpful and completely harmless. That's something I can understand. If you prefer to use Q to flap as a lerk and Q as lastinv for marines, or maybe you have your alien impulses and marine impulses both competing for room on the numpad, having two CFGs is really helpful. It's just as natural as customizing your config.cfg file.
<!--c1--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->alias +pistol "+attack; -attack"
alias -pistol "+attack; -attack"
bind mouse2 "+pistol"<!--c2--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
Disclaimer: forgive me if this is a hideously malformed pistol script. My only scripting experience is some buy scripts in Counter-Strike.
Anyway, this script falls into the gray zone of OK vs. Not OK. My opinion? It's lame: this allows you to do stuff that normal humans would not be able to do. It's not an intended part of the game to be able to discharge 10 bullets in under one and a half seconds, enough to insta-gib skulks that aren't extremely quick on the draw.
The solution? Well, cap the pistol rate of fire. After all, you can do the same thing with a mousewheel, which by the way, is equally as lame in my opinion.
<!--c1--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->alias 3jumps "+jump; -jump; +jump; -jump; +jump; -jump"<!--c2--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
Disclaimer #2: I might have this one right. Don't hurt me.
This script is another one that depends on other factors. What you think of this script is the same as what you think of bunnyhopping. Since it's officially sanctioned by the devs, it's in. My opinion falls similar to the pistol script: bunnyhopping is something extremely difficult to do as a human being, and also screws up the atmosphere. However, certian aspects of the game balance depend on bunnyhopping (even though, I feel that alien dependance on bunnyhopping and players deciding to not ambush is actually giving the marines an upper hand), so it was kept in. That's their position, and I'll let them make it and implement it.
<!--c1--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->alias +qleap "slot3; mw; +attack"
alias -qleap "-attack; slot1"
bind "b" "+qleap<!--c2--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
Disclaimer #3: I stole this one from <a href='http://paperlined.org/games/pc/natural_selection/2.01/scripts/3jump.html' target='_blank'>here</a>.
Eww, what a lame script. While it is only mildly abusive if at all, the entire idea of performing combat operations through lines of code kind of bugs me. It only takes another command or two and you can automatically bite and then switch back to leap with one button. It's nearly the same concept, just not to the same magnitude, of aimbots. "I can aim anyway, so I'm just going to make it more convenient." Disclaimer #4: Yes, I am comparing people who use that script to aimbotters. Just take note, I'm not calling them hackers nor am I calling them aimbotters. I'm simply pointing out a similarity. It also was not meant as a flame in any way.
Is there a way to fix annoying scripts like these? Well, I heard through word-of-mouth that Voogru was experimenting with a plugin on his server that prevented extreme weapons switching like the type that the above script used. However, I also heard that you couldn't switch for something like 5 seconds. I don't believe that it was actually 5 seconds, but it may have been too long for human reflexes. The problem with that solution is that a human being able to switch that fast (while impossible) is fine by me. It's the script alone being used that gets on my nerves, unlike the pistol scripts and bunnyhopping scripts.
So, that's where blockscripts comes in. However, blockscripts also gets rid of the harmless scripts like the exec scripts I posted above, because exec'ing CFGs can be the same as writing a script without the semicolons.
I am an advocate of the doctrine that I would first let criminals go than to imprison one innocent person. If I was a server op, mp_blockscripts would be off on my server. The annoying/malactious scripts (I'm not sure if there are any truly malacious scripts) would have to slide until somebody comes up with a clever way to spare the innocent and penalize the guilty. More power to ya, Voogru!
It does not help you master leap/bite in any way that script sucks and you should never use it unless you wanna stay mediocre at this game.
That and the crap that no one can pull off with lastinv. Who the hell are you people trying to kid? Are you going to whine for the return of railgun pistols next?
<!--QuoteBegin-"different person (this quoting system sucks"+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ("different person (this quoting system sucks")</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Then, when the same type of players (like the skulk that 'scripted' voogru on his own server) still pull off the same jobs on you as they do with scripts, you will return to the usual excuses of 'hacker' and 'cheater'.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Me? No. Only for the botting newbs who snap to targets and get 100% accuracy in 90-100 choke environments <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Most likely, even if everybody in a server had to play at a LAN center, people would start coming up with accusations of illegal drug use to increase reaction times or what have you not. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uh huh. Sure.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Newbies whine<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well this is exactly what the "vets" are doing right now.
alias 3jumps "+jump; -jump; +jump; -jump; +jump; -jump"
Disclaimer #2: I might have this one right. Don't hurt me.
This script is another one that depends on other factors. What you think of this script is the same as what you think of bunnyhopping. Since it's officially sanctioned by the devs, it's in. My opinion falls similar to the pistol script: bunnyhopping is something extremely difficult to do as a human being, and also screws up the atmosphere. However, certian aspects of the game balance depend on bunnyhopping (even though, I feel that alien dependance on bunnyhopping and players deciding to not ambush is actually giving the marines an upper hand), so it was kept in. That's their position, and I'll let them make it and implement it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
since marine are humans beings and are not allowed to bhop and aliens are not HUMAN BEINGS..... dont whine about the 3jump script for ALIENS!!!!
besides... how many people that CAN bhop complain about people using the bhop script? very few i bet. i am certain that people for the 3jump script can bhop, and people who cant bhop are against it.
Don't assume that because something seems impossible to you, it is impossible. It is quite possible to master weapon switching without any scripts whatsoever.
Also : that leap bite script is a piece of crap and no one in their right mind would use it.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Their "whining" is actually a valid complint about how servers force them to play a certain way (+jump bound to mwheel, etc. etc. to get around lack of scripts).
Whining only happens when you complain about something you can fix. It becomes an offical complaint when you can't fix it but someone can (dev).
That and the crap that no one can pull off with lastinv. Who the hell are you people trying to kid? Are you going to whine for the return of railgun pistols next?
<!--QuoteBegin-"different person (this quoting system sucks"+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ("different person (this quoting system sucks")</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Then, when the same type of players (like the skulk that 'scripted' voogru on his own server) still pull off the same jobs on you as they do with scripts, you will return to the usual excuses of 'hacker' and 'cheater'.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Me? No. Only for the botting newbs who snap to targets and get 100% accuracy in 90-100 choke environments <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Most likely, even if everybody in a server had to play at a LAN center, people would start coming up with accusations of illegal drug use to increase reaction times or what have you not. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uh huh. Sure.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Newbies whine<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well this is exactly what the "vets" are doing right now. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
*Sniff* *Sniff* What's that I smell?
<b><i><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:red'>IGNORANCE</span></span></i></b>
That and the crap that no one can pull off with lastinv. Who the hell are you people trying to kid? Are you going to whine for the return of railgun pistols next?
<!--QuoteBegin-"different person (this quoting system sucks"+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ("different person (this quoting system sucks")</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Then, when the same type of players (like the skulk that 'scripted' voogru on his own server) still pull off the same jobs on you as they do with scripts, you will return to the usual excuses of 'hacker' and 'cheater'.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Me? No. Only for the botting newbs who snap to targets and get 100% accuracy in 90-100 choke environments <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Most likely, even if everybody in a server had to play at a LAN center, people would start coming up with accusations of illegal drug use to increase reaction times or what have you not. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uh huh. Sure.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Newbies whine<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well this is exactly what the "vets" are doing right now. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
*Sniff* *Sniff* What's that I smell?
<b><i><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:red'>My own bull****</span></span></i></b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fixed it for you.
That and the crap that no one can pull off with lastinv. Who the hell are you people trying to kid? Are you going to whine for the return of railgun pistols next?
<!--QuoteBegin-"different person (this quoting system sucks"+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ("different person (this quoting system sucks")</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Then, when the same type of players (like the skulk that 'scripted' voogru on his own server) still pull off the same jobs on you as they do with scripts, you will return to the usual excuses of 'hacker' and 'cheater'.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Me? No. Only for the botting newbs who snap to targets and get 100% accuracy in 90-100 choke environments <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Most likely, even if everybody in a server had to play at a LAN center, people would start coming up with accusations of illegal drug use to increase reaction times or what have you not. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uh huh. Sure.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Newbies whine<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well this is exactly what the "vets" are doing right now. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
*Sniff* *Sniff* What's that I smell?
<b><i><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:red'>My own bull****</span></span></i></b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fixed it for you. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your such a pretty little girl when you're angry.
Read that thread again. voogru apoligized, he might be biased but who isn't? Now what do his personal opinions have to do with fixing a broken variable? Because this thread is not about his opinion, it's about blockscripts. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Can you be any more ignorant? Leading means a leader. By being a developer he is a leader of this community. His apology means nothing, someone who is a developer should have enough smarts not to say what he did in the beginning. And what he stated in the beginning he changed after. More importantly i am not bias. I was a leader of a private community for a time and i know what is required and how one must approach situations.
About your question. His opinion has everything to do with the broken variable. And you still don't know why? Because he made his opinion public fueling these newbies. "Time for Scripters to Die!!!" ? Do you not remember that subtitle of his topic? He changed it later but did his opinion on the subject of scripts change? No in reality he only changed his subtitle because it was to offensive.
You see if he kept his mouth closed this would of been seen as a dev fixing a variable. But he decided that this was something he wanted to get personal about and this is the result. Now i ask you what is wrong with this community? Why do the competitive community/pub community have to be so separated. If you have a clue you know cal will not remove scripts. So tell me how making half the servers in the pub scene with the blockscript enabled going to help fix the issues between new and old players. Please do not tell me the blockscript was introduced to remove abusive scripts because i will now again remind you that i ran a community with a fellow mate and support of a team and in all that time the most abusive scripts were 1 word commands which for your information this fellow of mine was the first to email the fix to this community.
Now play tester, tell me why are you defending this Voogru so much. Do you use scripts? Have you ever tried? Have you played both with scripts and without them? Have you attempted to find abusive scripts?
Now for my closing little message for you. This variable is all thats doing is separating this community. New and old Admins are being scared to using it, afraid of some exploitive scripts which will crash their servers while in reality its their amx plugins, yet i know there is nothing to be worried about. Nothing a good admin can not deal with and find and discover how to overcome. Blockscripts do not block players from scripting, they block players from learning.
(i can bh without scripts now... you love me mommy? )
That and the crap that no one can pull off with lastinv.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
what crap. leap/bite and blink/swipe?
Sizer and Bizzy are the proud first recepients of my 'Don't screw up in scripting debates' award.
A word regarding voogru-bashing. I have enforcede a rule prohibiting <i>any</i> form of personal harassment since I was made a mod around here. I won't stop it now. If you want to criticise his actions, that's your right. If you want to slander him, you'll be edited, warned, suspended, or banned.
By the way, speaking not as admin or producer, but as Florian 'Nemesis Zero' Schwarzer: I don't usually take lockposts as places to make comments on the topic, but in this special case, I can't help but marvel at the people who lament the divides in this community, and then declare the mistake of a fellow human being, which was later admitted, inexcusable. To err is human. It'd be nice to be able to say that to forgive is, too.