The lime green crates don't really fit IMO, the lime green with all the other colors makes it overly coloful, and the lime green doesn't really fit with the red/yellow/blue. Apart from that I like what I see.
The green crates would be fine (they do look kinda cool), except that there are definitely too many high-contrast colours in there. Its one thing if theres contrast, but it just starts looking goofy when you see bright sky blue, bright sky orange, bright fiery red, and bright lime green all at once. Perhaps more mix colours.
Also the red in that first pic, on the far right, looks washed out. Try taking it away from total red (0 255 0 or whatever it is), because it seems that as soon as it doesnt have two 0's in the colour, it suddenly can become a whole lot more balanced.
Are there any layout overviews for this map? there are too many pages in this thread.
<a href="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v650/DarkATi/newplace2.png" target="_blank">Pic</a> Re-manipulate that nos_grate floor texture. Don't use the r_speed saving method in such a simple area if it's going to make the floor look ugly and misaligned, not worth saving the 1rspeed on a 300rspeed area is it? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
Also I'm a bit confused as to those button textures on the last pictures being used as light holders, have no purpose? I do love the lighting though, what's the RAD settings?
<!--quoteo(post=1575881:date=Nov 11 2006, 11:13 AM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Thaldarin @ Nov 11 2006, 11:13 AM) [snapback]1575881[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> <a href="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v650/DarkATi/newplace2.png" target="_blank">Pic</a> Re-manipulate that nos_grate floor texture. Don't use the r_speed saving method in such a simple area if it's going to make the floor look ugly and misaligned, not worth saving the 1rspeed on a 300rspeed area is it? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
Also I'm a bit confused as to those button textures on the last pictures being used as light holders, have no purpose? I do love the lighting though, what's the RAD settings? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Haha, good catch Thursday... I mean... "Thaldarin". (Why the name change anyway?)
I'll fix that floor.
Also, throughout the map I use that button texture on all or most of the lights. Obviously they aren't functional but the idea is that that is how you would turn the lights on and off. (Manually anyway, the Vargus Mainframe controls lighting to some extent.)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The green crates would be fine (they do look kinda cool), except that there are definitely too many high-contrast colours in there. Its one thing if theres contrast, but it just starts looking goofy when you see bright sky blue, bright sky orange, bright fiery red, and bright lime green all at once. Perhaps more mix colours.
Also the red in that first pic, on the far right, looks washed out. Try taking it away from total red (0 255 0 or whatever it is), because it seems that as soon as it doesnt have two 0's in the colour, it suddenly can become a whole lot more balanced.
Are there any layout overviews for this map? there are too many pages in this thread.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, I'm tweaking the lighting in this area. Also, right now I haven't made a full compile in awhile (since the map is getting so massive), therefore, no overview at present.
I like it alot better. Less really is more. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
Wow.... this feels so old school <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> Tis sexy!
Wow, guys, I can't believe that my baby is so close to completion. I'm working on the third hive right now and then all I have to do is:
- Full vent system - A few connecting corridors (to this third hive) - Add a weld-point (Which I will unveil a little later but it could provide a nice tactical element to the map.) - Sculpt the Audioscape - Final Tweaks
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
Oh, I like the support beams and the spotlights. Nice and detailed area this! One thing I can't place is the red glow arround the rt. I can't see a red light which is causing this... Maybe I have to see it ingame, which means you have to finish it <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1576886:date=Nov 14 2006, 12:31 AM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kouji_San @ Nov 14 2006, 12:31 AM) [snapback]1576886[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Oh, I like the support beams and the spotlights. Nice and detailed area this! One thing I can't place is the red glow arround the rt. I can't see a red light which is causing this... Maybe I have to see it ingame, which means you have to finish it <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It does have a source. Look at the corners of the "wall" around the RT dropout. It has 4 red lights, one on each corner.
SloppyKissesomgawd a furreh!VirginiaJoin Date: 2003-07-05Member: 17942Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1576918:date=Nov 14 2006, 12:41 AM:name=Qomwak)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Qomwak @ Nov 14 2006, 12:41 AM) [snapback]1576918[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> im kind of n00b at this map critique thing, but it looks to me like the third hive is a bit too open. If there was a sg rush into the hive there would be nowhere for an alien to hide. maybe add in a vent, or cover the hive more? sorry if its a noob comment... map looks good though. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
nope your right, it does look like some cover for aliens would be nice D:
Well, I wanted to run a full compile tonight but I'm getting the MAX_MAP_CLIPNODES error. Does anyone know what Clip Type I should try to eliminate the error? (Precise, Normalized, Legacy, Simple, Smallest?)
EDIT: *cough* Maybe I should read the text in Batch Compiler more often... nevermind... lol
EDIT #2: Well crud guys, I fixed the MAX_MAP_CLIPNODES error with the "Simple" setting but now I get the MAX_MAP_FACES error. I'm gonna have to go around tomorrow and simplify anything I can find. Rest assured, Vargus will live on! I ain't afraid 'ugh no ghosts! (Or errors...)
<!--quoteo(post=1576940:date=Nov 14 2006, 01:00 AM:name=DarkATi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DarkATi @ Nov 14 2006, 01:00 AM) [snapback]1576940[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Well, I wanted to run a full compile tonight but I'm getting the MAX_MAP_CLIPNODES error. Does anyone know what Clip Type I should try to eliminate the error? (Precise, Normalized, Legacy, Simple, Smallest?)
EDIT: *cough* Maybe I should read the text in Batch Compiler more often... nevermind... lol
EDIT #2: Well crud guys, I fixed the MAX_MAP_CLIPNODES error with the "Simple" setting but now I get the MAX_MAP_FACES error. I'm gonna have to go around tomorrow and simplify anything I can find. Rest assured, Vargus will live on! I ain't afraid 'ugh no ghosts! (Or errors...)
I know <i>someone</i> who cant wait for source <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited November 2006
I used cliptype simple on Achio, due to precise giving me loads of invisible wall and none solid wall errors. And I get MAX_MAP_CLIPNODES when using Precise, Normalized, Legacy, Smallest, with the final compile version of the map
Simple is if you ask me the best cliptype to use: - No (not as much/unable to fix) weird unexplainable errors like Precise and Normalized give you - No sticky corners when using Legacy or Smallest (in some cases it's even better then Precise) - The smallest possible amount of clipnodes, even smaller then Smallest or Precise it seems
IMHO go with simple it's just as good as some of the others and better then most. In short the best allrounder <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Negatory. (and i thought -maxnodesize had to do with portalnodes, not clipnodes, hence affects r_speeds. Like Hints.)
If its map_max_clipnodes, you're over the clips by even .0000001. Filling in any concave areas with clip saves a bunch, but the real biggie that isnt mentioned in any tutorial (that ive seen at least) is entities. Any entity that isnt a func_illusionary has about 20% (give or take a lot) more clipnodes than the same brushes as worldbrushes. And its way, way more if it's an entity with a clip around it. It sounds strange but make good use of Cordon Bounds and you can test it in an instant (or just a basic room).
I spent 3 months fixing Nexus after i'd finished it, back in July. I was over clips by 140%. This was the big thing that helped bring that down, by a TON.
(once it was under 100% clipnodes, i got the alloc_block:full error, which took me and prevert-maximus about a full 6 weeks to figure out, but thats another error for another post, just pm me if it comes up.)
Clipping out concave areas, like in-set computer panels or whatnot, is simply good NS mapping, and a feature which pretty much every official map lacks. Dunno why, especially when so many maps have so many obvious spots (the ceilings all over ns_nancy come to mind, from the last game i played). But not only that, it saves a hefty number of clips.
Map_max_faces is the 'cover-up' error i found happening when i ran full compiles and had leak issues. Do you perhaps have a 'leaf-saw-into-leaf' error or anything?
Always use Precise. It just fixes a lot. Maps still snag (avoided by good mapping techniques), but using anything else seems to give pretty insane errors sometimes. I released a testdemo of Nexus (missing Engy Halls in their entirety), having used Smallest, and there was a massive invisible wall that filled a medium-sized doorway (in Mag Pump Room) so a skulk could barely fit in over it. I tried Simple, and the same spot decided to freeze any player who jumped in that same spot (though they could still run through it). It was messed.
Theres one other big issue that could be at hand, but only PM me about that if you get more weird errors, especially the alloc_block:full beeyotch.
This option tweaks the maximum size of a portal node. Setting it smaller will bsp the world into smaller chunks at the cost of higher r_speeds, but it can pay itself back in many cases with making vis either faster, or more accurate, or both.
If you set it to a higher value than default - like 2048 - you save clipnodes. Try it.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited November 2006
Just tried it, it's not full proof because I just exeeded max clipnodes when using 2048 ^_^, it kind of depends if it changes on how big your map is and how close together you've build stuff...
I still say go with simple. I've tested it thoroughly and it seems the most efficient and doensn't have sticky areas at all --> precise equivelant, only without the weird invisible walls/unclipped walls and a smaller amount of clipnodes. But then again it might also depend on the architecture of the map as it is with maxnodesize and the used cliptype...
<b>ns_achio_v2b3(wip): -maxnodesize #, -cliptype simple, using zhlt3.4:</b> 1024 (default), 99.1% (yeah, I added some stuff in beta3 ^_^ ) 1280, 98.9% 1536, 98.6% 2048, Exceeded MAX_MAP_CLIPNODES 768, Exceeded MAX_MAP_FACES
On a different note, because we haven't heard from the man... Got the clipnode problem under control and are you compiling the final version? (dare I ask <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> )
Lol weird, it works on my map though, maybe cause i use cliptype precise. ZHTL Reference says something like using precise and maxnodesitze 8192 is recommended for final builds. I already had the maxcliperror, with maxnodesitze 4092 im at 86%. Sadly i cant try it out right now..
About that func_illusionary with clipnodes stuff, is this still a problem?? Thought cagey added something like clipeconomy that strips those entities off the clipping hulls.
A small progress report. I haven't been working much on this... real life gets in the way. :-P But I'm losing some clipnodes and optimizing the pipe hallways for skulk-walking.
careful with that. You might want to not have the clips so far out, otherwise itll look too much like a floating skulk. Maybe have the clips flush against the pipes but not past then? Then you could still be stopped by the parts that jut out, which would probably be good.
I think its fine like he did. I sometimes catch myself by wanting to add some sticky corner in my map but players get frustrated if they get stuck in them during battle and will have negative impressions of your map.
Comments
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v650/DarkATi/newplace2.png" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v650/DarkATi/newplace1.png" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v650/DarkATi/newplace3.png" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
Cheers,
~ DarkATi
Also the red in that first pic, on the far right, looks washed out. Try taking it away from total red (0 255 0 or whatever it is), because it seems that as soon as it doesnt have two 0's in the colour, it suddenly can become a whole lot more balanced.
Are there any layout overviews for this map? there are too many pages in this thread.
Re-manipulate that nos_grate floor texture. Don't use the r_speed saving method in such a simple area if it's going to make the floor look ugly and misaligned, not worth saving the 1rspeed on a 300rspeed area is it? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
Also I'm a bit confused as to those button textures on the last pictures being used as light holders, have no purpose? I do love the lighting though, what's the RAD settings?
<a href="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v650/DarkATi/newplace2.png" target="_blank">Pic</a>
Re-manipulate that nos_grate floor texture. Don't use the r_speed saving method in such a simple area if it's going to make the floor look ugly and misaligned, not worth saving the 1rspeed on a 300rspeed area is it? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
Also I'm a bit confused as to those button textures on the last pictures being used as light holders, have no purpose? I do love the lighting though, what's the RAD settings?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Haha, good catch Thursday... I mean... "Thaldarin". (Why the name change anyway?)
I'll fix that floor.
Also, throughout the map I use that button texture on all or most of the lights. Obviously they aren't functional but the idea is that that is how you would turn the lights on and off. (Manually anyway, the Vargus Mainframe controls lighting to some extent.)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The green crates would be fine (they do look kinda cool), except that there are definitely too many high-contrast colours in there. Its one thing if theres contrast, but it just starts looking goofy when you see bright sky blue, bright sky orange, bright fiery red, and bright lime green all at once. Perhaps more mix colours.
Also the red in that first pic, on the far right, looks washed out. Try taking it away from total red (0 255 0 or whatever it is), because it seems that as soon as it doesnt have two 0's in the colour, it suddenly can become a whole lot more balanced.
Are there any layout overviews for this map? there are too many pages in this thread.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, I'm tweaking the lighting in this area. Also, right now I haven't made a full compile in awhile (since the map is getting so massive), therefore, no overview at present.
Cheers,
~ DarkATi
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v650/DarkATi/glowroom2.png" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
I like it alot better. Less really is more. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
What do you think?
Cheers,
~ DarkATi
Thaldarin is unique, Thursday is common.
the map is looking really good. hurry up and release it.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Indeed <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
OK, I toned down the crazy lighting:
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Crazy lighting is gooood <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
- Full vent system
- A few connecting corridors (to this third hive)
- Add a weld-point (Which I will unveil a little later but it could provide a nice tactical element to the map.)
- Sculpt the Audioscape
- Final Tweaks
I'll post more screens shortly.
Cheers,
~ DarkATi
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v650/DarkATi/newhive1.png" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v650/DarkATi/newhive2.png" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
Cheers,
~ DarkATi
I LOVE YOU!!111 the map is wicked awesome.
Oh, I like the support beams and the spotlights. Nice and detailed area this! One thing I can't place is the red glow arround the rt. I can't see a red light which is causing this... Maybe I have to see it ingame, which means you have to finish it <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It does have a source. Look at the corners of the "wall" around the RT dropout. It has 4 red lights, one on each corner.
Cheers,
~ DarkATi
im kind of n00b at this map critique thing, but it looks to me like the third hive is a bit too open. If there was a sg rush into the hive there would be nowhere for an alien to hide. maybe add in a vent, or cover the hive more?
sorry if its a noob comment... map looks good though.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
nope your right, it does look like some cover for aliens would be nice D:
EDIT: *cough* Maybe I should read the text in Batch Compiler more often... nevermind... lol
EDIT #2: Well crud guys, I fixed the MAX_MAP_CLIPNODES error with the "Simple" setting but now I get the MAX_MAP_FACES error. I'm gonna have to go around tomorrow and simplify anything I can find. Rest assured, Vargus will live on! I ain't afraid 'ugh no ghosts! (Or errors...)
Cheers,
~ DarkATi
Well, I wanted to run a full compile tonight but I'm getting the MAX_MAP_CLIPNODES error. Does anyone know what Clip Type I should try to eliminate the error? (Precise, Normalized, Legacy, Simple, Smallest?)
EDIT: *cough* Maybe I should read the text in Batch Compiler more often... nevermind... lol
EDIT #2: Well crud guys, I fixed the MAX_MAP_CLIPNODES error with the "Simple" setting but now I get the MAX_MAP_FACES error. I'm gonna have to go around tomorrow and simplify anything I can find. Rest assured, Vargus will live on! I ain't afraid 'ugh no ghosts! (Or errors...)
Cheers,
~ DarkATi
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know <i>someone</i> who cant wait for source <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Simple is if you ask me the best cliptype to use:
- No (not as much/unable to fix) weird unexplainable errors like Precise and Normalized give you
- No sticky corners when using Legacy or Smallest (in some cases it's even better then Precise)
- The smallest possible amount of clipnodes, even smaller then Smallest or Precise it seems
IMHO go with simple it's just as good as some of the others and better then most. In short the best allrounder <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
If its map_max_clipnodes, you're over the clips by even .0000001. Filling in any concave areas with clip saves a bunch, but the real biggie that isnt mentioned in any tutorial (that ive seen at least) is entities. Any entity that isnt a func_illusionary has about 20% (give or take a lot) more clipnodes than the same brushes as worldbrushes. And its way, way more if it's an entity with a clip around it. It sounds strange but make good use of Cordon Bounds and you can test it in an instant (or just a basic room).
I spent 3 months fixing Nexus after i'd finished it, back in July. I was over clips by 140%. This was the big thing that helped bring that down, by a TON.
(once it was under 100% clipnodes, i got the alloc_block:full error, which took me and prevert-maximus about a full 6 weeks to figure out, but thats another error for another post, just pm me if it comes up.)
Clipping out concave areas, like in-set computer panels or whatnot, is simply good NS mapping, and a feature which pretty much every official map lacks. Dunno why, especially when so many maps have so many obvious spots (the ceilings all over ns_nancy come to mind, from the last game i played). But not only that, it saves a hefty number of clips.
Map_max_faces is the 'cover-up' error i found happening when i ran full compiles and had leak issues. Do you perhaps have a 'leaf-saw-into-leaf' error or anything?
Always use Precise. It just fixes a lot. Maps still snag (avoided by good mapping techniques), but using anything else seems to give pretty insane errors sometimes. I released a testdemo of Nexus (missing Engy Halls in their entirety), having used Smallest, and there was a massive invisible wall that filled a medium-sized doorway (in Mag Pump Room) so a skulk could barely fit in over it. I tried Simple, and the same spot decided to freeze any player who jumped in that same spot (though they could still run through it). It was messed.
Theres one other big issue that could be at hand, but only PM me about that if you get more weird errors, especially the alloc_block:full beeyotch.
Keep on the good work.
Sets the maximum portal node size.
This option tweaks the maximum size of a portal node. Setting it smaller will bsp the world into smaller chunks at the cost of higher r_speeds, but it can pay itself back in many cases with making vis either faster, or more accurate, or both.
If you set it to a higher value than default - like 2048 - you save clipnodes. Try it.
I still say go with simple. I've tested it thoroughly and it seems the most efficient and doensn't have sticky areas at all --> precise equivelant, only without the weird invisible walls/unclipped walls and a smaller amount of clipnodes. But then again it might also depend on the architecture of the map as it is with maxnodesize and the used cliptype...
<b>ns_achio_v2b3(wip): -maxnodesize #, -cliptype simple, using zhlt3.4:</b>
1024 (default), 99.1% (yeah, I added some stuff in beta3 ^_^ )
1280, 98.9%
1536, 98.6%
2048, Exceeded MAX_MAP_CLIPNODES
768, Exceeded MAX_MAP_FACES
On a different note, because we haven't heard from the man... Got the clipnode problem under control and are you compiling the final version? (dare I ask <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> )
I already had the maxcliperror, with maxnodesitze 4092 im at 86%.
Sadly i cant try it out right now..
About that func_illusionary with clipnodes stuff, is this still a problem?? Thought cagey added something like clipeconomy that strips those entities off the clipping hulls.
Example:
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v650/DarkATi/progressclipnodes.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
Cheers,
~ DarkATi