Not because you made the rule, but stating that you did was bad. I mean, we love all your updates, but I think you should have just released beta 6 and at that time said "Oh yeah, we've stopped blocking fades etc by doing so and so". Because this will just cause mass confusion, and alot of arguements.
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
this aint allo allo. >_<
I still think ppl can adapt. Calculate in that a comm does this. ADAPT.
Its part of the game since 1.04 and I do not think its lame. Just adapt, get better. this is not a discussion I am ever gona win but indeed, its stupid.
To agree with some others.. what is "in advance"? now we made this new silly rule i will say its 0.01 seconds. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> In advance enought.
Ah well, before you know it they say WOLs are gona be taken out aswell cause its a exploit.
While an interesting idea, that's to complicated for practicality. Simply havning the structure be no-clip until built would resolve the issue entirely, and would make sense anyway.
I think it's perfectly fair. If an alien life form can see a building blocking an entrance/hallway then he takes his chances at surviving. If a comm drops a building where the alien life form came from then it's unfair as the lifeform didn't calculate for this.
At least there's an official stance on it now. Previously it was "I swear I heard someone say one time that they were in a game with someone who once played with Flayra's uncle and HE SAID that CC blocking was good/bad!"
<!--QuoteBegin-BobTheJanitor+Sep 19 2004, 03:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BobTheJanitor @ Sep 19 2004, 03:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> At least there's an official stance on it now. Previously it was "I swear I heard someone say one time that they were in a game with someone who once played with Flayra's uncle and HE SAID that CC blocking was good/bad!" <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> What?! When did that happen? And which uncle? <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I predict this thread will go 4 more pages, then get locked.
<!--QuoteBegin-Daxx22+Sep 19 2004, 02:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Daxx22 @ Sep 19 2004, 02:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I predict this thread will go 4 more pages, then get locked. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I see your four pages and a lock, and raise you at least one minithread of posts within the thread where the original comment is nuked and ten more after it have to have the quote and reply edited out by nem0.
ZunniThe best thing to happen to I&S in a long whileJoin Date: 2002-11-26Member: 10016Members
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Uhhh... Zunni I think this was a bad move.
Not because you made the rule, but stating that you did was bad. I mean, we love all your updates, but I think you should have just released beta 6 and at that time said "Oh yeah, we've stopped blocking fades etc by doing so and so". Because this will just cause mass confusion, and alot of arguements. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think the arguments were coming regardless of the order we did it in (block scripts anyone?), but I'm constantly getting PM'd by players who are wondering about this (and other) topics. All they wanted was a dev perspective, so I gathered this from Flayra (and the rest of the dev'ers) and put it in an easy to digest format.
When the release that has this implemented in it comes out, we'll already have the ground work covered.
<!--QuoteBegin-MrGunner+Sep 19 2004, 01:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrGunner @ Sep 19 2004, 01:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I still think having structures be ghosted and noclipped until a marine actually starts to build them is the best way of solving this, BUT WHAT DO I KNOW? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You've got it all wrong, starting a witchhunt is the best way to solve this.
<!--QuoteBegin-Alkiller+Sep 19 2004, 03:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Alkiller @ Sep 19 2004, 03:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Uhhh... Zunni I think this was a bad move.
Not because you made the rule, but stating that you did was bad. I mean, we love all your updates, but I think you should have just released beta 6 and at that time said "Oh yeah, we've stopped blocking fades etc by doing so and so". Because this will just cause mass confusion, and alot of arguements. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Atleast his discussing this. The point of his post was to say what the dev's think on the issue and then see what the community thinks. That the dev's opinion is wrong or right doesn't matter for his willing to discuss it and nothing yet has been implemented......
Cookman, that was awesome <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
There is a func_nobuild entity for a reason. Point 3) is quite hard to interpret, but if its suggesting what I think, then it is not possible to code it without a LOT of work going in (and for such a useless "feature").
Its good to hear the dev team are focussed on the real issues
Well now that the <b>dev's</b> say so, it must be true!
I like the new news weekly and stuff, but do yourselves a favor and don't state your opinions on how the game should be played. You make the game, we play the game, the servers we play on make the rules. That should be as complicated as it gets.
Zunni, I think the wording in that announcement is really poor. It is not at all clear in Rule 2 that you're only referring to structures that were dropped and built ahead of time, because you never said that. You say that "blocking doorways" is a valid strategy, but in the next rule you say that "blocking enemies" is not. What else would the comm be trying to block in the doorway besides enemies?
I understand that you meant that building things in a door ahead of time to block it is valid and that dropping something in that door as an enemy walks in/out to block him is not, but you need to actually say that in the announcement or people won't understand. For example, "Dropping and building a structure well in advance to block a doorway or tunnel is a valid tactic. Using a recently dropped, unbuilt structure to instantly block the path of an enemy is not."
The simple solution would be to make unbuilt structures have rediculously low hp, to the point it would only take about 3 bites to finish. This makes it so it is still able to block a fade, but unless the marine team capitalizes, the alien shouldn't have any problem either going around or killing the structure.
Cookman, nice try, but seeing that this is a world in which humans have mastered nanotechnology and things can materialize out of nowhere by the activation of these nanos, you're just making yourself look silly comparing it to World War 2.
The purpose of the post isn't solely to state their opinion. It is also to tell people that they are trying to find a way to force it into the game, so that regardless of your opinion, you will have to play by those rules. If you disagree with the changes that will be made eventually, then you can argue that, but it doesn't make it a bad choice for the post to be made. It is a little like posting a changelog in advance.
So let me get this straight, it's okay to drop a CC right after an Onos enters the marine base to block him since he isn't running away but it isn't okay to drop a CC in front of an Onos when he is trying to run away with low hp? Just asking for clarification.
CC blocks are a positive and negative thing. Well not negative for me cause I never onos so I dont have to worry about it. As my primary class, a fade I see the CC as a good friend and sometimes enemy. It sure takes a lot of bullets when I should be taken them and it works well as a sheild.
At times I may get stuck but a simple look up - blink and bam im behind it. Same for skulk. I only see it hurting the onos the most since hes big and can't get passed it but oh well. If the rine team is that desperate to waste 30 res just for 1 kill thats their loss.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If the rine team is that desperate to waste 30 res just for 1 kill thats their loss. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You mean waste 6 res, after recycling, to kill an enemy that costs 77 to 81 resources.
<!--QuoteBegin-DuoGodOfDeath+Sep 19 2004, 05:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DuoGodOfDeath @ Sep 19 2004, 05:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I only see it hurting the onos the most since hes big and can't get passed it but oh well. If the rine team is that desperate to waste 30 res just for 1 kill thats their loss. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Onos=75-81 res CC, later recycled= Not much
Eh they still lose res then <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> I just dont see such a big deal I havent seen a CC block in ages. Because by time onos are sitting outside marine start its aliens with every res node and 3rd hive is about done. So yeah :/ Marines are stuck with 1 node and it just isnt smart to just drop a CC when you can hand out equpiment.
<!--QuoteBegin-DuoGodOfDeath+Sep 19 2004, 02:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DuoGodOfDeath @ Sep 19 2004, 02:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Eh they still lose res then <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> I just dont see such a big deal I havent seen a CC block in ages. Because by time onos are sitting outside marine start its aliens with every res node and 3rd hive is about done. So yeah :/ Marines are stuck with 1 node and it just isnt smart to just drop a CC when you can hand out equpiment. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> And what if it also saves the HA/HMG marine that the onos just devoured?
<!--QuoteBegin-crisano+Sep 19 2004, 04:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (crisano @ Sep 19 2004, 04:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So let me get this straight, it's okay to drop a CC right after an Onos enters the marine base to block him since he isn't running away but it isn't okay to drop a CC in front of an Onos when he is trying to run away with low hp? Just asking for clarification. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That is correct.
<!--QuoteBegin-Zunni+Sep 19 2004, 07:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zunni @ Sep 19 2004, 07:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> keep in mind we (at this time) are not preventing people from doing these things, but rather letting people know that by doing these things, they are playing the game as it was not intended to be played.. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> What about making unbuilt structures clippable? Could cause issues of people getting stuck in buildings when they're finished building though.
Why are people arguing against this decision? How on earth can you disagree? Is it <i>fun</i> to have a turret sticking out of your back or something? Maybe you enjoy a CC in your arse when you have 50 hp and need to make a mad break for the exit. I just don't get why anyone would see this as anything other than an exploit. I mean, phasing in a building was created with the assumption that you planned on building the building and using it. And only recycling it if aliens are about to take it down. It was not designed to make walls. Somehow that behaviour just became acceptable.
And whoever said that "next thing you know WoL's will be against the rules" is <b>completely</b> out of their mind. WoL's are about the most ineffective wastes of res in existence. What kind of smacktard would blow 40 to 50 res to make a ginormous organic bulls eye in the middle of a room, when you could use 20 res, place two oc's so that they cover each other and just warn nearby skulks that there are some free kills in the area.
Comments
Not because you made the rule, but stating that you did was bad. I mean, we love all your updates, but I think you should have just released beta 6 and at that time said "Oh yeah, we've stopped blocking fades etc by doing so and so". Because this will just cause mass confusion, and alot of arguements.
I still think ppl can adapt. Calculate in that a comm does this. ADAPT.
Its part of the game since 1.04 and I do not think its lame. Just adapt, get better. this is not a discussion I am ever gona win but indeed, its stupid.
To agree with some others.. what is "in advance"? now we made this new silly rule i will say its 0.01 seconds. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> In advance enought.
Ah well, before you know it they say WOLs are gona be taken out aswell cause its a exploit.
Also Joe's suggestion would be good.
What?! When did that happen? And which uncle? <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I predict this thread will go 4 more pages, then get locked.
I see your four pages and a lock, and raise you at least one minithread of posts within the thread where the original comment is nuked and ten more after it have to have the quote and reply edited out by nem0.
Not because you made the rule, but stating that you did was bad. I mean, we love all your updates, but I think you should have just released beta 6 and at that time said "Oh yeah, we've stopped blocking fades etc by doing so and so". Because this will just cause mass confusion, and alot of arguements.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think the arguments were coming regardless of the order we did it in (block scripts anyone?), but I'm constantly getting PM'd by players who are wondering about this (and other) topics. All they wanted was a dev perspective, so I gathered this from Flayra (and the rest of the dev'ers) and put it in an easy to digest format.
When the release that has this implemented in it comes out, we'll already have the ground work covered.
But I appreciate the opinion..
You've got it all wrong, starting a witchhunt is the best way to solve this.
Not because you made the rule, but stating that you did was bad. I mean, we love all your updates, but I think you should have just released beta 6 and at that time said "Oh yeah, we've stopped blocking fades etc by doing so and so". Because this will just cause mass confusion, and alot of arguements. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Atleast his discussing this. The point of his post was to say what the dev's think on the issue and then see what the community thinks. That the dev's opinion is wrong or right doesn't matter for his willing to discuss it and nothing yet has been implemented......
Its good to hear the dev team are focussed on the real issues
I like the new news weekly and stuff, but do yourselves a favor and don't state your opinions on how the game should be played. You make the game, we play the game, the servers we play on make the rules. That should be as complicated as it gets.
I understand that you meant that building things in a door ahead of time to block it is valid and that dropping something in that door as an enemy walks in/out to block him is not, but you need to actually say that in the announcement or people won't understand. For example, "Dropping and building a structure well in advance to block a doorway or tunnel is a valid tactic. Using a recently dropped, unbuilt structure to instantly block the path of an enemy is not."
Cookman, nice try, but seeing that this is a world in which humans have mastered nanotechnology and things can materialize out of nowhere by the activation of these nanos, you're just making yourself look silly comparing it to World War 2.
At times I may get stuck but a simple look up - blink and bam im behind it. Same for skulk. I only see it hurting the onos the most since hes big and can't get passed it but oh well. If the rine team is that desperate to waste 30 res just for 1 kill thats their loss.
You mean waste 6 res, after recycling, to kill an enemy that costs 77 to 81 resources.
Onos=75-81 res
CC, later recycled= Not much
Who wins?
And what if it also saves the HA/HMG marine that the onos just devoured?
That is correct.
What about making unbuilt structures clippable? Could cause issues of people getting stuck in buildings when they're finished building though.
And whoever said that "next thing you know WoL's will be against the rules" is <b>completely</b> out of their mind. WoL's are about the most ineffective wastes of res in existence. What kind of smacktard would blow 40 to 50 res to make a ginormous organic bulls eye in the middle of a room, when you could use 20 res, place two oc's so that they cover each other and just warn nearby skulks that there are some free kills in the area.
<!--QuoteBegin-"The Mapping Guidelines"+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ("The Mapping Guidelines")</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Notes:
Unlike the TFC entity of the same name, this entity clips players -- this is by design.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Furthermore, yes let's increase the entity count of every single ns_ map for this!